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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Oct 15th, 2008 11:47 am
gpolakow
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueknightga6
I beg to differ. The tail/brake light is higher than most bikes out there, and has 3 bulbs instead of one, making it more visible to cagers. If you have the trunk rack with the brake light, that's even higher.

My wife was behind me the other afternoon/evening while she was in the car. She commented that the rear lighting is better than on our Suzuki Boulevard but the only reason she would notice the Boulevard more is because of the Back-Off brake light module. But said the brak light on the trunk rack was at eye level.

But in the case of this accident, the driver at fault wasn't even looking.
I DON'T have the trunk rack with the brake light and I still say the rear visibility needs improvement. I had a '79 XS 1100 (Yamaha) and even it had better rear lighting than the stock LT.
Oct 15th, 2008 11:03 am
dglenn1
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JATownsend
To blame a rider for being hit in the ass is monumentally stupid.

Sometimes you're just in the wrong place, at the wrong time, in front of an idiot!
Point taken. But I certainly didn't mean to blame the rider for being hit if that is the way you read it. I was trying to point out that there is a tradeoff between being in harms way and being visible and the further you remove yourself from the line of fire, the less visible you become. I was interested in the discussion around this point as it related to folk's experiences. Your unfortunate experience has taught you how you will handle this situation in the future and that is fine, I'm in no position to disagree with you.

I have less than 2.5 years as a rider and in that time I have covered 30K miles of mostly commuter miles. I drive in dense traffic 5 days a week rain or shine (well, mostly shine .) Prior to that, I have close to 30 years of cage experience where I really didn't think much about motorcycles. I know what I used to notice about bikes and what I didn't. My perspective is probably nieve, but thats why I spend my off time reading these sites and trying to glean as much experience as I can prior to gathering the painful ones of my own. Thanks for everyone's contribution to the site and especially those willing to share their collisions and experiences.

Have a great riding day,
Oct 15th, 2008 4:04 am
jayjacobson
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JATownsend
dglenn...What a crock-of-shit that is! Where is your brain hiding? ....
Now, now guys. Let's keep the shit-eating grin on our faces! If this was a political thread, Andy would have nutted up already!
Oct 15th, 2008 12:55 am
Sunderland
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JATownsend
dglenn...What a crock-of-shit that is! Where is your brain hiding?

I was rear-ended in Chicago a few years ago. Brake lights on, with Stop n' Go Flashers, everything! The dumbass knocked me into next week. 9K repair bill. I was in the center of my lane, coming to a stop behind traffic.

To blame a rider for being hit in the ass is monumentally stupid.

Sometimes you're just in the wrong place, at the wrong time, in front of an idiot! Maybe you!

I hope you aren't a stupid as we were!

Wow, Mr. Townsend! That certainly was a dramatic response lacking in common decency and respect. Perhaps you should read your post again and evaluate it. If we cannot explore options and differing viewpoints, what's the reason for participating on this site?

I don't question your logic regarding the topic, only your approach.
Oct 14th, 2008 10:11 pm
Hollywood
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NVRider
This last weekend, my wife and I thought we would go for a bit of a bike ride. Weather could not have been better here in northern Virginia. Well ... we were riding westbound on Route 9 out of Leesburg and I noticed a line of cars ahead in my lane stopped at a traffic light. I looked in my rear view mirror as I slowed, as I always do, and came to a stop in the left-most part of the lane, leaving plenty of room between us and a Mercedes immediately in front. After coming to a complete stop, I again looked into my right rear view mirror in time to see a white blur just as we were hit from behind by a full sized Dodge Ram van. Though it was a glancing blow, when the left part of the vanís front bumper hit the right-rear portion of our BWM K1200 LT, the back end of the bike was lifted off the ground and we, with the bike, were thrown forward. Somehow, and I still do not know how, I managed to keep the bike upright. Because I was already rolling forward, there was no oncoming traffic, and there was a wide shoulder on the opposite side of the road, I gave the bike some gas to get clear of all traffic. As we crossed the road, I noticed that the rear end of bike seemed a bit loose and had a ďgravellyĒ feel as we rolled. After hitting us, the van continued forward and took out the right rear quarter panel of the Mercedes in front of us and then went on over into a fairly deep ditch and up a slight incline for about another 100 feet beyond the Mercedes.

The driver of the van later admitted to the Deputy Sheriff that she was looking over her shoulder at a sign; and when she finally looked forward, it was too late. She saw us only in time to swerve (and I'm GLAD she did!). The officer informed us that she was being charged with reckless driving. (You don't say!)

Bottom line. My wife and I seem to be fine. When the van hit us, either a part of the van (such as the side mirror) hit my wifeís right shoulder, or it could have been the energy of the impact of the van transferring through the top trunk of the LT to her shoulder. Regardless, she was having a lot of pain at the scene, so paramedics put my wife on a backboard and took her by ambulance to the hospital, just as a precaution. Her right shoulder is deeply bruised and it appears from an x-ray that a bone in her right shoulder is chipped. I am fine, though my right knee and right hip are tender; I suspect from trying to keep the bike upright. Cosmetically, the bike didnít look bad at all, but because I was wary of the final drive and not knowing what other damage the impact caused, I had the bike towed. Also, when we were tying the bike down on the flatbed truck, I noticed some type of oil on the front left fork, so I suspect something up there may have broken, too. We'll find out more about the bike later. I am grateful we both are okay, and I must say Iím really bummed not to have my bike!
Any info on rear area lighting upgrades?
Oct 14th, 2008 8:48 pm
JATownsend
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
I'll be prepared to get flamed here given the direction of the comments.

<SNIP>

Guess the way I'm reading it you were as far left as you could be and had ample space in front of you. I interpret that to be a place where I would least expect you to be if I was driving a cage behind you. If I were to glance to the right to read a sign, I would expect that not only would you be lost in from my peripheral vision but also in my a-pillar blind spot as well as stopped much sooner that I would anticipate.

I'm open to discussion but I try to be as obvious as possible. This means occupying my space as conspicuously as I can. Not positioning myself in alignment with any of the brake lights in front of me, usually between the left and center light, maybe even getting slightly diagonal to increase my profile while aiming for the escape route. If the left side is a shoulder, then I'll likely be more to the right to allow a better escape route to those behind me. Either way I remain in a position expected to be occupied by a vehicle in traffic. Also, leaving too much space in front can be as much of a hazard as being too close. It causes traffic behind to stop short. Of course in CA we can just cheat up between the lanes to avoid being the last in line, but that is rarely possible at dense city intersections.

Not saying you did anything to cause this, just surprised not to see another perspective in the thread. I think you could argue either way that your placement off to the side saved you from further injury, or a placement more center would have gotten you better noticed and the van would have stopped in time.
dglenn...What a crock-of-shit that is! Where is your brain hiding?

I was rear-ended in Chicago a few years ago. Brake lights on, with Stop n' Go Flashers, everything! The dumbass knocked me into next week. 9K repair bill. I was in the center of my lane, coming to a stop behind traffic.

To blame a rider for being hit in the ass is monumentally stupid.

Sometimes you're just in the wrong place, at the wrong time, in front of an idiot! Maybe you!

I hope you aren't a stupid as we were!
Oct 14th, 2008 8:37 pm
NOGILLS2
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

I think the BMW emblem is what causes the rearend collisions! It blinds the driver and causes the collision.
Oct 14th, 2008 8:29 pm
blueknightga6
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpolakow
Actually, I think one of the poor design elements of the LT is the rear lighting. It's not easy to see. But in this case it was especially hard to see because the person driving the van was not looking.
I beg to differ. The tail/brake light is higher than most bikes out there, and has 3 bulbs instead of one, making it more visible to cagers. If you have the trunk rack with the brake light, that's even higher.

My wife was behind me the other afternoon/evening while she was in the car. She commented that the rear lighting is better than on our Suzuki Boulevard but the only reason she would notice the Boulevard more is because of the Back-Off brake light module. But said the brak light on the trunk rack was at eye level.

But in the case of this accident, the driver at fault wasn't even looking.
Oct 14th, 2008 7:33 pm
NVRider
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
Duuuuude ... yet another wise suggestion.. being "off center" like that saved you a "center punch"... if you had seen a moment sooner you might have gunned it between the cars...

Check your bike for feathers.... I'm guessing your G.A. took one for ya.
CFell -- I think you hit the nail on the head ...and, no flaming to anyone who thinks otherwise. And, I think it was a VERY good thing that we were on the LT ... much more mass and much more protection. Regarding visability, the driver indicated that we were the first thing she saw, so she veered to the right. Dang, had she hit us even one inch to the left ...or if WE were positioned even one more inch to the right, I have no doubt this post would be very different. I have the P3 lights installed on the back, on either side of my license plates and I love them. I've been told those lights are not only conspicuous, but that they also tend to catch other drivers' attention. I also have a few stickers and reflective stuff. I mean, really, I think the back of an LT is a hard thing NOT to see.

I appreciate everyone's comments, and especially your support. I'm hoping to learn about the status of the LT tomorrow. I'll keep you updated on that too. To all of you, THANKS!!
Oct 14th, 2008 1:27 pm
Caveno
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Riding around in NYC, I've made it a habit to always check my side view mirror to see who may be coming behind me, if there is a car approaching, I'll watch it until I know they can see me.
Oct 14th, 2008 12:14 pm
george_falcon
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattlePiR8
Personally I like to to take which ever side of the lane I feel most comfortable in for making an escape, sometimes that's the right hand side, sometimes left, but almost NEVER in the middle unless I'm the first one at the line.
I've been rear-ended three times in the DC area, once on my '76 R75/6, once on my new '00 LT, and once on my new '05 LT. I believe that the degree of control we have over whether we get rear-ended is so small as to be laughable. I do what I can to be vigilant, but the rest is up to [G-d | chance | other factors beyond our control].
Oct 14th, 2008 12:10 pm
asleeplessknight
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Again... I am so appreciative of these dialogs...the mishaps our brothers and sisters share with us here... the post mishap diagramming of the scenes.... helps each of us become safer out there... Very good stuff.

On a side note, something I always practice when "commuting" is always keeping my thumb poised over the left AUDIBLE turn signal button. There have been times when I went for it.. and missed it... so I try to keep my thumb on the ready to blast 130dBs to the ignorant/neglegent cager.

Time for a ride...
Oct 14th, 2008 12:05 pm
reggosnell
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Center lane is NEVER the place to be long-term. Slightly one side or the other - preferably left. Hugging the right opens the possibility for some bozo to lane-share with you on the left. Remember the ever-present oil line in the middle of a lane. With a little moisture, this line gets VERY slick. As far as visibility goes, somehow we seem to become invisible out there. I don't think the law allows the kind of lighting that would make us always visible. We have to take the chance and be VERY careful! My biggest fear is the cell-phone-in-the-ear soccer mom turning across my lane - old folks, too. I keep my eye on that on-coming traffic like a hawk!
Oct 14th, 2008 11:07 am
SeattlePiR8
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
......

Not saying you did anything to cause this, just surprised not to see another perspective in the thread. I think you could argue either way that your placement off to the side saved you from further injury, or a placement more center would have gotten you better noticed and the van would have stopped in time.
I think you're right, you could argue this either way. I would argue that the center of the lane is the worst place to be to get out of harms way, but potentially the most visible. However I don't think it matters one iota where you are in the lane or what you're driving if the driver isn't looking where they're going and that's usually the case in a rear end collision.

So FWIW, I don't really think there's much education you can gain or administer here other than act as a reminder that IF you can, always be checking your mirrors. Unfortunately you can't be looking every where at once.

Personally I like to to take which ever side of the lane I feel most comfortable in for making an escape, sometimes that's the right hand side, sometimes left, but almost NEVER in the middle unless I'm the first one at the line.
Oct 14th, 2008 11:00 am
LAF
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpolakow
Actually, I think one of the poor design elements of the LT is the rear lighting. It's not easy to see. But in this case it was especially hard to see because the person driving the van was not looking.
I agree and is why I enhanced the rear with Rider west items per one of my threads.

However, NO kind of lighting is going to protect you from someone not looking.

Just very happy it turned out how it did, for it really was a setup for much worse.
Oct 14th, 2008 10:36 am
gpolakow
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Glad you guys are fine.

Strange though, of all the motorycle forums I've belong to over the years, I've heard of more LTs being rear-ended than any other bike. Surely it's not because of lack of visiblity. What then?! Hhmmn...
Actually, I think one of the poor design elements of the LT is the rear lighting. It's not easy to see. But in this case it was especially hard to see because the person driving the van was not looking.
Oct 14th, 2008 10:26 am
Caveno
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

It's always those SUVs! They think they own the road!!
Oct 14th, 2008 10:22 am
AlReich23
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
I'll be prepared to get flamed here given the direction of the comments.

First of all, glad you're all relatively OK and the driver that hit you sounds like they will get what's coming to them with the reckless driving charge and all. It also sounds like they were concerned enough to admit being distracted.

Guess the way I'm reading it you were as far left as you could be and had ample space in front of you. I interpret that to be a place where I would least expect you to be if I was driving a cage behind you. If I were to glance to the right to read a sign, I would expect that not only would you be lost in from my peripheral vision but also in my a-pillar blind spot as well as stopped much sooner that I would anticipate.

No way the driver has any excuse to not have seen you, but I disagree with the notion that this a "conservative" style or a preferred placement to stop at an intersection or in traffic.

I'm open to discussion but I try to be as obvious as possible. This means occupying my space as conspicuously as I can. Not positioning myself in alignment with any of the brake lights in front of me, usually between the left and center light, maybe even getting slightly diagonal to increase my profile while aiming for the escape route. If the left side is a shoulder, then I'll likely be more to the right to allow a better escape route to those behind me. Either way I remain in a position expected to be occupied by a vehicle in traffic. Also, leaving too much space in front can be as much of a hazard as being too close. It causes traffic behind to stop short. Of course in CA we can just cheat up between the lanes to avoid being the last in line, but that is rarely possible at dense city intersections.

Not saying you did anything to cause this, just surprised not to see another perspective in the thread. I think you could argue either way that your placement off to the side saved you from further injury, or a placement more center would have gotten you better noticed and the van would have stopped in time.

Best of luck on your recovery, hope you'll be up and riding again soon. I'll just be over here ready to receive my "education."
Praise God that you are relatively OK.
Dan's postioning assessment has my interest. I'm always looking for better ways to reduce my odds of impact. What is the best way to position yourself in stop-and-go traffic?
Oct 14th, 2008 7:20 am
Alpac
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

I am so glad you got out of this with minor injuries. It could have been much worse.
Oct 14th, 2008 6:32 am
Ekim
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Glad to hear you guys are relatively ok.
Oct 14th, 2008 5:43 am
wacolt
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Good thing you dance with the Big Girl rather than a light-weight! I would expect the ride would/could have been much different.

I do believe, though, your lane position helped you. Had you been center of the lane, I expect once your bump was over your choice would have been the rear bumper of the Mercedes; don't know if right of center could have afforded you much protection as you said the van hit the right quarter panel and continued into the ditch.

I'm glad nothing was coming from the opposite direction and, even though you, your bride, and your girl got hurt, you are safe. I normally stop in the left or right portion of the lane and, as a result of your experience, will continue to stop left or right of center; no way to avoid this one as there was no time to flash your brake lights or even move-out of the way.
Oct 14th, 2008 12:28 am
dglenn1
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

I'll be prepared to get flamed here given the direction of the comments.

First of all, glad you're all relatively OK and the driver that hit you sounds like they will get what's coming to them with the reckless driving charge and all. It also sounds like they were concerned enough to admit being distracted.

Guess the way I'm reading it you were as far left as you could be and had ample space in front of you. I interpret that to be a place where I would least expect you to be if I was driving a cage behind you. If I were to glance to the right to read a sign, I would expect that not only would you be lost in from my peripheral vision but also in my a-pillar blind spot as well as stopped much sooner that I would anticipate.

No way the driver has any excuse to not have seen you, but I disagree with the notion that this a "conservative" style or a preferred placement to stop at an intersection or in traffic.

I'm open to discussion but I try to be as obvious as possible. This means occupying my space as conspicuously as I can. Not positioning myself in alignment with any of the brake lights in front of me, usually between the left and center light, maybe even getting slightly diagonal to increase my profile while aiming for the escape route. If the left side is a shoulder, then I'll likely be more to the right to allow a better escape route to those behind me. Either way I remain in a position expected to be occupied by a vehicle in traffic. Also, leaving too much space in front can be as much of a hazard as being too close. It causes traffic behind to stop short. Of course in CA we can just cheat up between the lanes to avoid being the last in line, but that is rarely possible at dense city intersections.

Not saying you did anything to cause this, just surprised not to see another perspective in the thread. I think you could argue either way that your placement off to the side saved you from further injury, or a placement more center would have gotten you better noticed and the van would have stopped in time.

Best of luck on your recovery, hope you'll be up and riding again soon. I'll just be over here ready to receive my "education."
Oct 13th, 2008 9:50 pm
asleeplessknight
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Glad to hear you two came away relatively unscathed. Thank you for sharing the details of your crash.

NV... curious... do you have any lighting enhancements on the back end of your LT?
Oct 13th, 2008 9:18 pm
sonnata
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

So glad to hear you are both alive to tell the tale. Think I'll stay to the leftmost part of the lane from now on when I stop at a light.
Oct 13th, 2008 8:34 pm
cfell
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Duuuuude ... yet another wise suggestion.. being "off center" like that saved you a "center punch"... if you had seen a moment sooner you might have gunned it between the cars...

Check your bike for feathers.... I'm guessing your G.A. took one for ya.
Oct 13th, 2008 6:32 pm
WildBil
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Sorry to hear about your wife's shoulder, but I am glad you two are no worse off, which is a real tribute to your paying attention to what is in the mirrors when you stop, as we all should.

Sorry your bike got hit with so much time left to ride.

Regards,

Bil
Oct 13th, 2008 6:01 pm
NCrider
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

There are 2 things I am most concerned about... deer and being rear-ended, and I try to be ever vigilant to both. I know that there are times you cannot react to either quick enough. It is amazing you kept her upright. I'm praying for quick and complete healing for both of you!
Oct 13th, 2008 5:20 pm
c00k1e
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

That was close, my worst nightmare, nothing you can do about it. So glad you escaped with as little harm as you did
Oct 13th, 2008 12:17 pm
GolfGuy
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Glad both of you are OK!
Oct 13th, 2008 12:11 pm
NVRider
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Glad you guys are fine.

Strange though, of all the motorycle forums I've belong to over the years, I've heard of more LTs being rear-ended than any other bike. Surely it's not because of lack of visiblity. What then?! Hhmmn...
Must be the magnetic personalities of the LT riders!
Oct 13th, 2008 11:42 am
azredline
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

I'm glad this wasn't much worse. Sounds like your riding experience saved both of you from worse injury.

Hope you both recover quickly and fully.

Good luck on the bike recovery too!
Oct 13th, 2008 11:35 am
messenger13
Re: Rear Ended on the LT!

Glad you guys are fine.

Strange though, of all the motorycle forums I've belong to over the years, I've heard of more LTs being rear-ended than any other bike. Surely it's not because of lack of visiblity. What then?! Hhmmn...
Oct 13th, 2008 11:24 am
NVRider
Rear Ended on the LT!

This last weekend, my wife and I thought we would go for a bit of a bike ride. Weather could not have been better here in northern Virginia. Well ... we were riding westbound on Route 9 out of Leesburg and I noticed a line of cars ahead in my lane stopped at a traffic light. I looked in my rear view mirror as I slowed, as I always do, and came to a stop in the left-most part of the lane, leaving plenty of room between us and a Mercedes immediately in front. After coming to a complete stop, I again looked into my right rear view mirror in time to see a white blur just as we were hit from behind by a full sized Dodge Ram van. Though it was a glancing blow, when the left part of the vanís front bumper hit the right-rear portion of our BWM K1200 LT, the back end of the bike was lifted off the ground and we, with the bike, were thrown forward. Somehow, and I still do not know how, I managed to keep the bike upright. Because I was already rolling forward, there was no oncoming traffic, and there was a wide shoulder on the opposite side of the road, I gave the bike some gas to get clear of all traffic. As we crossed the road, I noticed that the rear end of bike seemed a bit loose and had a ďgravellyĒ feel as we rolled. After hitting us, the van continued forward and took out the right rear quarter panel of the Mercedes in front of us and then went on over into a fairly deep ditch and up a slight incline for about another 100 feet beyond the Mercedes.

The driver of the van later admitted to the Deputy Sheriff that she was looking over her shoulder at a sign; and when she finally looked forward, it was too late. She saw us only in time to swerve (and I'm GLAD she did!). The officer informed us that she was being charged with reckless driving. (You don't say!)

Bottom line. My wife and I seem to be fine. When the van hit us, either a part of the van (such as the side mirror) hit my wifeís right shoulder, or it could have been the energy of the impact of the van transferring through the top trunk of the LT to her shoulder. Regardless, she was having a lot of pain at the scene, so paramedics put my wife on a backboard and took her by ambulance to the hospital, just as a precaution. Her right shoulder is deeply bruised and it appears from an x-ray that a bone in her right shoulder is chipped. I am fine, though my right knee and right hip are tender; I suspect from trying to keep the bike upright. Cosmetically, the bike didnít look bad at all, but because I was wary of the final drive and not knowing what other damage the impact caused, I had the bike towed. Also, when we were tying the bike down on the flatbed truck, I noticed some type of oil on the front left fork, so I suspect something up there may have broken, too. We'll find out more about the bike later. I am grateful we both are okay, and I must say Iím really bummed not to have my bike!

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