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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Aug 26th, 2008 10:23 pm
whiteMTNmark
Re: Never again

I guess its all relative. I only started riding 7 yrs ago at age 50, have ridden 73,000 miles in 17 states and 3 provinces, all on NEW BMWs. Wife and I have purchased 5 new BMWs: 2 F650GS (one stolen), R1150R, R1150RT, K1200LT (new 3 years ago).
Still have 4, no serious problems, no parts shortages, we aren't wrenches so dealer does it all. If we could not afford the maintenance I guess we wouldn't own the bikes.
It sure was nice when I rode across the vast, desolate island of Newfoundland this summer to know that I had the best bike that I could afford.
Aug 26th, 2008 10:07 pm
Razmataz
Re: Never again

Dammit Cookie!
Take that little bug off of your signature!
I keep slapping my monitor....
Aug 26th, 2008 9:06 pm
fas
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy
There is a lot of TRUE great people here that always answer your questions and are sympathetic people, great to deal or talk with
AND
there is some of us that are mocking or brutal when defending the bike.

I'm selling the bike (for financial reasons) and will probably get an Africa Twin or a CB 750 Seven Fifty. These just need about nothing. These are different bikes for sure, and I understand they must not be compared. But these are bikes that won't let me down the road. Plus they don't cost me a kidney each time I have to buy an oem part...

This is a great bike but it has major common problems : FD, clutch, slave cylinder, rear brakes, ABS faults, radio, trunk latch.

If the LT is such a great machine, why does the GW outsales it by thousands ? I love the LT and cannot afford a GW, even a used one. But I can afford honesty and I admit the GW must be better in some points after all...

I owned 3 brands and BMW costs me the much. Be it in maintenance parts, labor or most important : failures.

The lemon in the orange basket or the orange in the lemon basket ?
One reason I buy new bikes/cars often is I have the attention span of a nat. I also like to ride/drive new technology, be under OEM warranty, and sell at a high price to someone who either can not afford to buy new or who prefers to buy used (very well maintained and highly documented) after the depreciation. This works for me. Yes, BMW has faults. They also remain Europe's largest motorcycle builder (although my client KTM is nipping at their heals). I find the same is true of Porsche or any object of machinery/art. Issues arise. We learn about the integrity of the builder and their dealers as these issues surface. An S2000 (Honda 2-seater rag top) may be less expensive than my Boxster. True. I prefer the P-car.
Aug 26th, 2008 5:18 pm
Frenchy
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier6162
the attitudes and general defensive nature here sometimes scare me away for weeks at a time.
There is a lot of TRUE great people here that always answer your questions and are sympathetic people, great to deal or talk with
AND
there is some of us that are mocking or brutal when defending the bike.

I'm selling the bike (for financial reasons) and will probably get an Africa Twin or a CB 750 Seven Fifty. These just need about nothing. These are different bikes for sure, and I understand they must not be compared. But these are bikes that won't let me down the road. Plus they don't cost me a kidney each time I have to buy an oem part...

This is a great bike but it has major common problems : FD, clutch, slave cylinder, rear brakes, ABS faults, radio, trunk latch.

If the LT is such a great machine, why does the GW outsales it by thousands ? I love the LT and cannot afford a GW, even a used one. But I can afford honesty and I admit the GW must be better in some points after all...

I owned 3 brands and BMW costs me the much. Be it in maintenance parts, labor or most important : failures.

The lemon in the orange basket or the orange in the lemon basket ?
Aug 26th, 2008 4:49 pm
Xavier6162
Re: Never again

Looks like eeejaay1 comes here desperate, hurt and looking for help. And so I must express my confusion at the manner in which some see fit to address his issues. Mocking him doesnít move us closer to a resolution.

I have an ABS bike (not BMW) and the manual suggests a brake fluid change every 2 years. Maybe BMW uses exotic oils or parts. I think itís a ploy to get owners in for extra service. Donít really know. Donít care. But if the manual recommends it, so be it.

I will say though, as much as I like and would want a BMW, the attitudes and general defensive nature here sometimes scare me away for weeks at a time. I am a member of several motorcycle forums. I do know that from what Iíve read on this forum and others is that when I buy BMW, it will never be a use bike out of warranty.

My local cycle dealer who sold Japanese, German (and lots of KTMs), Italian and some Korean bikes just dropped their entire BMW line.

And Why? I asked. By their request due to constant customer complains from defective bikes in everything from FD to ABS and other mechanical and electrical systems. But they will still do non-warranty related work. Of the 3 CHP R1200PTs in the service bay, 2 were having their FDs replaced (I asked) and the 3rd had its brake work disassembled (didnít have to ask). So when eeejaay1 complains about ABS problems, I for one donít think heís a troll.

ManÖI really do want one of those R1200PTs. After they fix it.
Aug 26th, 2008 3:56 pm
shadowofshoe
Re: Never again

In the for what its worth category-
The only time I rode/did not ride or worried about going anywhere, alone or with Mona, was when I was having battery issues( caused by me letting my awfully cute grandson playing on the LT while garaged).

Once I resigned to the fact I needed a new battery............no worries, if it happens; dammit I guess I use one of the 2 towing contracts I have.

RIDE-ENJOY-AVOID CLOSE WILDLIFE ENCOUNTERS

Mike
Aug 26th, 2008 3:39 pm
Frenchy
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairpin
Roman took the time to go over the service history with me and guess what we found:

Tires replaced
final drive replaced
clutch replaced
etc, etc, etc

(...) Without this information, I don't think I would have closed the deal.
Not trying to argue or to be insulting but I'm not sure I understand.

Those are GOOD informations to you ?

I'm pretty sure I would have turned my back on this expensive machine with FD and clutch replaced at 55k. IMHO
Aug 26th, 2008 3:11 pm
BecketMa
Re: Never again

Yup.

BMW can do a lot better.

I plan on waiting for at lest three or four years before considering the new model LT to find out what the new design failures will be.

Who knows? Maybe my next bike will be electric with a one pony engine to keep the battery charged?

Bob
Aug 26th, 2008 1:47 pm
vano
Re: Never again

I have owned my 2004 Lt for about a year now and Have read this forum for about the same.

This is my first BMW and I love the ride but I will have to agree with some that the maintenance is very expensive. My other bike were Honda and Yamaha they were so much easer to work on air filter fuel filter ect. easy to get to and replace. I love the BMW but the maintenance is difficult for me at least to perform I try and do most.

Removal of the tupperware for everything is a pain in the ass. having to change out head lights just to see radio stops working for no reason and many more odd things for what is a so called luxury machine I've spent more at a BMW dealer than I have on all the rest of my bikes over the past 25 years.

With all that said I still love the ride much better than anything I have ridden

Vano
Aug 26th, 2008 12:09 pm
haughty
Re: Never again

RIght now Sally* is in the service bay getting her first (by me anyway) service- 12k.
I have been chewing at the bit trying to get my ride out of lockup. The ABS pickup sensor on the rear went out and lo and behold.. the replacement one was faulty...
Or did the dealer just tell me that to quit calling. Mine will cost a pretty penny and I guess it is ... doing the math.....carry over... tongue in the side of the mouth... dit ..dot., going to cost a few more dollars than ive gotten out of it,,,

The JOurney IS the ADVENTURE.. just don't go coach...

Gotta keep telling myself that ..

but I do have one nagging question..do we really need to have the final drive ready to install?
Aug 25th, 2008 6:31 pm
fas
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
join the BMWMOA....you get it with your membership packet.


F

Makes sense that your avatar is a pussy....

Joe, think that'll get him fired up?
Aug 25th, 2008 6:23 pm
Florian
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairpin
Hey Jerry, how do I get one?

join the BMWMOA....you get it with your membership packet.


F
Aug 25th, 2008 5:28 pm
simon
Re: Never again

Well, I LOVE my LT and I've had three of them with no problems!
Simon
Aug 25th, 2008 5:19 pm
Hairpin
Re: Never again

Hey Jerry, how do I get one?
Aug 25th, 2008 4:16 pm
StillJustJerry
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairpin
I don't have an extended warranty, don't even have AAA.
Be sure you have a copy of the BMWMOA Anonymous book with you, and chances are you won't ever need anything else.
Aug 25th, 2008 3:53 pm
Hairpin
Re: Never again

I hadn't ridden a bike since 1971 when I plunked a small deposit on my '99 LT with 55k on it. It seemed like an exceptional value considering the cost of new, but I did my homework and found this site. As others have noted, the majority of posts will be about problems. I've wrenched on most of my machines over the years and wasn't overly concerned about the issues raised here, until I came upon the FINAL DRIVE concerns. While I still has a couple days before my deposit went hard, I called my salesman, Roman at Ride West BMW in Seattle. While he cautioned me about getting overly concerned about forum issues, he was also empathetic. He agreed to meet with me to address my concerns. Fortunately, this bike was sold and serviced by Ride West. Roman took the time to go over the service history with me and guess what we found:

Tires replaced
final drive replaced
clutch replaced
etc, etc, etc

The complete service record assured me that the original owner, while he did his own oil changes and small stuff himself, was a conscientious owner, and followed a complete service regimen. Without this information, I don't think I would have closed the deal.

Since then, on my first ride with some friends, I broke the shift linkage about 5 miles from my house. Fortunately, it was in 3rd gear, and I was able to limp home. Checked here and got schooled on all issues pertaining to linkage. With about $35 of OEM parts I refreshed all parts of concern and was back on the road within a couple of days.

I have viewed this Summer and my 1st 3500 miles in 30+ years as a shake down period, both for myself and the bike. I am thoroughly hooked, and the LT has been flawless for many lengthy one day rides.

I continue to visit here to learn, both about riding and maintenance, as well as be entertained by the many members' views on riding, and life.

I look forward, admittedly with a bit of trepidation, toward my first extended ride scheduled for Sept. I will try to chase down and check for any and all possible weaknesses/deficiencies that may require attention. But if it breaks, I'll deal with it. That's what grown-ups do.

I don't have an extended warranty, don't even have AAA. I lived on the road for 15 years as a musician and learned that you have good days, and you have bad days. I always tried to learn from both. Always with limited resources, the most important thing I learned was to trust my instincts. It hasn't killed me yet.
Aug 25th, 2008 3:27 pm
bulletbill
Re: Never again/My experience!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithb
The one bad thing about the internet is you can always find out the negative side of things. Everyone complains about what has broken or what is not running correctly, or how much they have had to spend to fix it. I am new to BMW and have only had my new 07 LT for just over a year and have 18,000 miles on it so far. Other the the normal maint I have only had to replace the tires and the bike has been great to ride!!!! I rode GW for 16 years prior to BMW and I admit I was nervous about getting a LT because of all the problems that you read in this forum. Yes the GW's do have there mechanical issues and they do seem to be fewer and farther between. I guess bottom line is you have to take care of your machine -- do the required maint when it is due -- it is a machine and it will break -- you just need to do what you can to prevent as much extra expense as possible.

Ride it and have fun -- take care of it and it will be even more enjoyable to ride!!!
My experience!

Humm? BMW Motorcycles, Hummm??? Had 5 of them in the last 28 years whatís that one every 5.6 years, but I only had 3 of the 5 for the first 20 years, thatís one every 6.66 years, gosh I only had the first one 14 months (and 41,000 miles) so I guess the next two I had for 224 months. Oh these two had over a 100,000 mile each. No problem with these three. Well I did have a rear flat once. And I did replace a timing chain or two along with a few tire and brake shoes/pads, I think they called it preventive maintenance. Then I purchased a R850R wow this puppy had some brakes compared to the old airheads, but the sears werenít long enough to be comfortable for two-up travel, and my beautiful wife of 43 years always goes along. Had the 850 two years an about 40K, Well enter the K1200LT wow what a ride!!!! 6 years 132K and cruising.. Oh that dreaded RD, well I had have to replace the carrier bearing at 111K, You know I think thatís a pretty good track record and at 71 most likely wonít be buying many more motorcycles, but you can bet itíll be another BMW.

Now let me say that I donít think you can buy a bad motorcycle in todayís market, they all have make big step toward reliability and they (motorcycles) all are still the best way to travel for my money.
Aug 25th, 2008 3:00 pm
fas
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Although Mr. fpmlt's math skills are poor ... his humor is right on point.

+1

Here is my real life cost of ownership data. 2002 LT owned four years $.47 per mile NET. 2006 GT owned for two years $.38 per mile NET. I buy new bikes, ride them until I get distracted, then sell on eBay. Sold the GT recently for $15,500 cash (four days on eBay). Sold the LT for full asking price in two days on eBay. One point our Honda lover is missing is retained value. Not all riders read these forums or even know they exist. They lust after the Roundel. The Super Duke will go next. RC8 is on order.
Aug 25th, 2008 2:32 pm
Keithb
Re: Never again

The one bad thing about the internet is you can always find out the negative side of things. Everyone complains about what has broken or what is not running correctly, or how much they have had to spend to fix it. I am new to BMW and have only had my new 07 LT for just over a year and have 18,000 miles on it so far. Other the the normal maint I have only had to replace the tires and the bike has been great to ride!!!! I rode GW for 16 years prior to BMW and I admit I was nervous about getting a LT because of all the problems that you read in this forum. Yes the GW's do have there mechanical issues and they do seem to be fewer and farther between. I guess bottom line is you have to take care of your machine -- do the required maint when it is due -- it is a machine and it will break -- you just need to do what you can to prevent as much extra expense as possible.

Ride it and have fun -- take care of it and it will be even more enjoyable to ride!!!
Aug 25th, 2008 2:14 pm
GUNTER1100
Re: Never again

Perhaps he just got a lemon? My first BMW a 1970 R75/5 was bought new. It was the 5th one to be shipped out to the US, according to the VIN #. I had heard of the reliability of the product, & was not impressed at first. This bike did not have any fuses.None! if there was an electrical short, the wires kept burning until they melted... ask me how i found this out! Also, the carburators (remember them?) floats would stick & cause gas to leak out onto your boots. One of the rear shocks broke after 1100 miles of gentle riding. The u-joint was seld up by 4 bolts, of which one was not torqued properly at the factory, which caused it followed by the other 3 to come loose & shoot thru the rubber boot, along with their lock washers. The last fault was the worst. The slide mechinism in the carb moved up in a set of fixed guides as you applied throttle, they would lower back down as you reduced throttle. After a long ride, the ambient temp. along with engine heat caused the slide to expand slightly. The problem was that the guides were made of a different metal, that expanded slower. So I was going down a long grade at about 60 MPH or so & saw a toll gate at the bottom of the hill. I rolled the throttle down & nothing.I braked as hard as I could, brake shoes, no ABS in 1970.I was lucky enough to have the man at the toll booth watch me approach & he got the arm up in time as I shot past at about 50MPH. I reached up to the top of the headlight & removed the key, as I pulled in the clutch. I went back, thanked the man & paid my $0.35 toll. When I got back to Ft. Gordon where I was stationed , there was a certified letter from BMW for me. It stated that I was not to ride the bike under any conditions, until certain repairs were made. I called the nearest dealer in Atlanta, & they said they would be down in 2 days to repair the problem. When I mentioned the other problems, he said he would contact BMW of America & let them know. They arrived in 2 days & rolled out of a trailer a brand new R75/5 for me. They apologized for the problems, & paid off the old bike for me. There was $1800 or so left to pay on the old machine. The new one lasted me for 18 years & 103,000 miles. It was #1 of 5 BMWs I have owned. The first was a lemon, but the others were great. All had some problems, but that happens with machines. I hope you enjoy the GW for years to come. I always say"It's not so much what you ride, it's that you ride"
Aug 25th, 2008 1:42 pm
2000klticon
Re: Never again

I do all my own service. BTW if you use synthetic brake fluid you won't have near the problem you do with that crappy glycol based fluid. I use it in all my cars and bikes. I changed to it in 1987 after my work truck had the entire brake system fail after only about a year and a half. The older silicone fluids required a complete clean out of the systems. But the new ones don't.

I never worry on a ride with my LT any more than I do riding or driving anything else. If you keep something in good shape you reduce the likelyhood of having a problem. I just returned from a twelve day 5,300 mile trip across the Northern and Western states. I had not one problem the whole time. As for trading bikes every three years or so, I can't afford the depreciation.

Good Luck !!!
Aug 25th, 2008 12:39 pm
gpolakow
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
To all who love the BMW. Make sure that you have a full wallet when purchasing these machines. They have many good traits about them but many sinister traits installed by the manufactuer. BMW needs to step up to the plate and take responsibly for the junk they are putting on the road. All you have to do is read these post and see how many problems they actually have. There is a reason why only 3 to 4 percent of bikes on the road in the US are BMW. Number one is there ABS systems. What a joke. Change the brake fluid once a year and then have the dealers gouge you for the service. This is crazy. I now have to fork out 2200.00 for a new ABS that blew some 10 cent gasket because there are no parts available. Dealers words. Sounds like a scam to me. I want to take my money and ride into the sunset. Not spend it on service and down time. Speedometers being Off?? What decade are we in? I understand things happen but why does BMW not step up to the plate and repair there faults? Throttle cables turn so hard that the cruise will not stay engage? To me this is a design flaw. Should be fixed by the company. Will not happen with this machine. I am sure many of you will swear by your machine, but I am going back to a wing. I have had 6 over the last 20 years and have never had the problems I have had with this piece of junk that BMW wants to call the best machine on the road. I have had ABS on the wing and never had these problems. I am not having to change my brake fluid once a year. In fact I do not personal know of any other car or bike that you have to change the brake fluid on. Cars go for years without the thought of a fluid change. What is up with BMW. Like I said, a scam to get the service dollars. This is my first and last BMW for sure. Good luck guys. I will be happy on the wing no matter what anybody says about the machine. There track record with me is the best. I may have to give up a little comfort and smoothness on the road but at least I will not be robbed blind by BMW. For those who care, I own there flagship, 1200 LT. The LT stands for limited time. Limited time before it takes your wallet.
I agree service is expensive. Have decided must do most of it myself from now on. But to your point about the throttle cables being stiff. Just had mine replaced and it works smoothly and easily now. Love it.
Aug 25th, 2008 8:06 am
rattler50
Re: Never again

All this proves is you should buy the aftermarket warranty if you purchase used. I rolled the dice and lost $350. He rolled and lost $2200. Sometimes when you buy used, you buy someone else's problems. The clutch is the only problem I've had so far and I could have avoided that by drilling the weep hole in the beginning. Buyer beware when it comes to used. No one has a crystal ball. We pays our money and we takes our chances........
Aug 25th, 2008 7:06 am
ben1364
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
Look dude. I don't need a lecture from you or anybody else. I have been working on these things for years. If you don't like what I have to say, then don't read it. If you want to know facts, the reason there are no dealers in the states is because of the bikes track record. Who in the hell wants to tackle a bike that has as many issues as these do. If your toes are sore right now its because the truth hurts. I am not here to argue. Am I mad? Yes. I paid good money for a bike that I knew was going to need some maintenance but not to the tune of 2200.00. And then find out that many riders of BMW's are having the same prob. This is not a coincedence. And to all, I did not get on here to offend anyone. I am sorry if I have. Many of you have helped just by some of your posting. That is very much appreciated. But for those of you who want to argue and throw in your snide comments, have at it. I am just stating what a lot of others are thinking. Maintenance on this bike is not the issue. Forking out 2200 for a gasket going bad is a manufactuers issue in my opinion. Where are the parts that these things require to keep them starting and stopping. And for the gentleman that would rather ride his skateboard then a wing, is there ABS on your board. If there is don't forget to change the fluid once a year. Thanks to all who posted with a thought or a concern.

Thank you for enlightening us and welcome aboard.
Aug 25th, 2008 7:04 am
wacolt
Re: Never again

You are dissatisfied; why don't you write to BMW?

Why come here, dis our bikes, and end up having people dis the wing? They are both good bikes and each person has their favorite. If you kept your favorite until the warranty ran out each time, and encountered zero problems, perhaps you are better off returning to your favorite.

What does the wing warranty cost anyway?
Aug 25th, 2008 6:54 am
c00k1e
Re: Never again

OK, I will do you a massive favor. I will take the pile of junk off your hands for the scrap value you obviously think it is worth.
Sure the K12 goes wrong, so will any machine. Why? 'cos they are built by humans. Get over it.
I have had an armfull of problems, far more then average. You will find people on here who have never had a problem. Forums arer the worst way to judge a bit of machinery, the problems are the most talked about subject and misrepresent the reliability. Dispute the problems I have had, I will ride this bike for as long as my wallet will fund it. The bike has the best ride I have ever come across for what I do on two wheels and at the end of the day, that is what is most important.
Come on, what is more important? A smile on ya face or a few green bits of paper?
Aug 25th, 2008 3:50 am
Rockdoc
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlelectronics
That tecnique with a few pounds of pressure is actually an accepted and good way to do it.
Oh, the principle is sound enough but this was one they'd knocked together without understanding the potential hazards.

Keith
Aug 25th, 2008 3:49 am
Ajlelectronics
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
Wow, 3 whole posts...lets see...it lives under a bridge and charges a toll...hmmmmmmm...Oh! I know! A TROLL!
That was my thought too. The evidence for me is that his first post is a rant. If it was so easy to find the forrum for a little venting, then surely he could have found it for help and advice beforehand? Even after the rant, he had lots of help, explanations and advice, including how to mend the ABS if he really wanted to, but he doesn't seem to want to know.

I also can't understand such a cavalier attitude about brakes. After all, he is welcome to kill himself, but to risk taking other people with him is unforgiveable. All for a little bottle of fluid, a service manual and half an hour's work. What does that add up to? Less than £50 ?
Aug 25th, 2008 3:44 am
Rockdoc
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
You gotta be kidding! Something like in the states would be a law suit waiting to happen.
Not back in the late seventies! Nobody even dreamed of anything like that back then. I just didn't go back and made sure as many people as possible knew about it.

Keith
Aug 25th, 2008 3:34 am
Morley
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
To all who love the BMW. Make sure that you have a full wallet when purchasing these machines.
Or any other machine, for that matter.
Quote:
many sinister traits installed by the manufactuer.
Hehehehe, you make it sound as if BMW is sabbotaging their own products
Quote:
BMW needs to step up to the plate and take responsibly for the junk they are putting on the road. All you have to do is read these post and see how many problems they actually have.
Name me ONE car that has less "problems", we're not talking about one particular car, but EVERY model of that car, mose will have more problems.
Quote:
There is a reason why only 3 to 4 percent of bikes on the road in the US are BMW.
Sure is, its called a lack of dealers and higher prices, just like their autos.
Quote:
Number one is there ABS systems. What a joke. Change the brake fluid once a year and then have the dealers gouge you for the service. This is crazy.
It is called preventive maintenance..or periodic maintenance..EVERY vehicle has it. Take your car to the dealer and have the ABS system flushed. Dealers charge $100/hr..do the math.
Quote:
I now have to fork out 2200.00 for a new ABS that blew some 10 cent gasket because there are no parts available. Dealers words. Sounds like a scam to me.
Yep a scam! the dealers don't want you saving any money! Or maybe they aren't qualified to repair, test and recertify those units..naaa, its a scam.
Quote:
I want to take my money and ride into the sunset. Not spend it on service and down time.
Might I suggest a nice Honda 90?
Quote:
Speedometers being Off?? What decade are we in? I understand things happen but why does BMW not step up to the plate and repair there faults?
NO vehicle on the roAd has an accurate speedometer...its called "tolerance".
Quote:
Throttle cables turn so hard that the cruise will not stay engage? To me this is a design flaw. Should be fixed by the company.
And I'm sure you expect the car makers to fix a part that is out of warranty too, because, obviously it has a design flaw or it wouldn't break!
Quote:
but I am going back to a wing.
Buh-bye!
Quote:
I am not having to change my brake fluid once a year.
You'd better 'cause if you don't kill yourself, you'll void any warranty it has.
Quote:
In fact I do not personal know of any other car or bike that you have to change the brake fluid on. Cars go for years without the thought of a fluid change.
They ALL need fluid changes..and yes, cars go for years without a fluid change...2 years.
Quote:
This is my first and last BMW for sure. Good luck guys. I will be happy on the wing no matter what anybody says about the machine.
Good for you (and better for us)
Quote:
There track record with me is the best. I may have to give up a little comfort and smoothness on the road but at least I will not be robbed blind by BMW.
Nope, Honda will be robbing you now...have a nice life!

Wow, 3 whole posts...lets see...it lives under a bridge and charges a toll...hmmmmmmm...Oh! I know! A TROLL!
Aug 25th, 2008 3:26 am
Ajlelectronics
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
You gotta be kidding! Something like in the states would be a law suit waiting to happen.
That tecnique with a few pounds of pressure is actually an accepted and good way to do it. Many dealers do it with professional equipment designed for the job. I have managed to clear airlocks that would not shift using the manual method.

The only disaster I had, on my little sports car, (for which parts are hard to come by) was to use too much pressure. The result was that the plastic reservoir split and blew the brake fluid everywhere. Instant panic to clean it up before it ate into the paintwork.

The unit I use has a coupling that you connect to the valve of a spare tyre, suitably deflated to reduce the pressure.

Here is the one I use
http://www.gunson.co.uk/item.aspx?item=1818&cat=674
Aug 25th, 2008 3:16 am
Morley
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockdoc
As you can imagine, I went to the garage in an absolutely incandescent mood. The head mechanic refused to accept any responsibility because they'd used a new tool they'd invented themselves. He proudly told me they screwed a container to the reservoir, added brake fluid and then pushed the fluid around the system using a compressed air line.
You gotta be kidding! Something like in the states would be a law suit waiting to happen.
Aug 25th, 2008 2:00 am
ArthurKnowles
Re: Never again

For my 2 cents worth, I think once more what the OP is stating comes around to his lack of prepardness. From what I have read, and read between the lines, he bought a used vehicle (motorcycle, car, plane, etc. doesn't matter the type) without a warrenty and has to pay the price for it (lack of prepardness).

I've seen this type of rant many times before. On this forum. On the BMWST forum. On the MOA forum. And what it comes down to is simple...

You buy a used vehicle without a warrenty, then you should be prepared to pay out of pocket for any repairs!!!

Can't say it any simpler than that. When I bought my '06 LT (soon to be sold due to financial/medical resons) I bought an extended warrenty even though the factory warrenty is good until 8/09. I planned to have it a long time. I bought my '96 RT without a warrenty and not only planned to do any work myself, but have done the work myself to the tune of about $1500 ~ $2000 on it. Most of this work entailed bring it current (60K) maintainence wise and just because I wasn't 100% sure of its current state did all major/minor service requirements too. Then I replaced the brake lines with SS line and added various upgrades (Wilber shocks, HID lights, etc.) and farkles to make it perform/ride the way I wanted.

If a major failure occurs, I'll take that in stride too. When I buy a new/used R1200RT at the end of this year or early next and have a problem (which I might with the ESA, EWS, etc issues that have occured) I'll take that in stride too. I also never worry about what might happen (FD failures, EWS lockouts, etc.) when I go for a ride either. I just deal with the issues as they happen. If they happen.
Aug 24th, 2008 10:34 pm
gbob
Re: Never again

I don't think BMW motorcycles were ever aimed at the "blue collar " market
I am a skilled blue collar worker and had it not been for the information given up so freely at this site I would have a hard time keeping the LT in the family budget . Two years and 34K miles with no trips to the dealer . I will ride it into the ground and get a the next one .
The Honda parts man has had his way with me, $32 for one generator exhaust valve.

bob g
99LT
Aug 24th, 2008 9:22 pm
NCrider
Re: Never again

I never ride with the thought of a break down in the back of my mind. I've had 2 LT's. 7000 on this one. The first one had a final drive breakdown, under warranty. I noticed it shortly after leaving Charlotte and still rode it home to Eastern Carolina not knowing what was wrong. Had it towed back to them at BMW's cost- under warranty.

One reason I spend the money up front and buy new. I've rarely had luck with used cars, as well. Again, I buy new usually without worrying about how someone else treated it.

And I'm not made of money but I count the cost to ride and know what I like. I don't like Goldwings. No logical reason- I just don't. I don't like Harleys either, but that's because of all the "lifestyle image" and the marketing hype, and the feel of a cruiser... and I like to be a little different. I refuse to be a sheep in pirates clothes.
Aug 24th, 2008 8:50 pm
ez_rdr55
Re: Never again

"To all who love the BMW. Make sure that you have a full wallet when purchasing these machines."

I happen to agree. If not for this forum and the ability to do all those FN repairs myself with non-OEM POS BMW parts (some of which I had to make) I would have to get rid of this really fun bike. It's still not cheap to keep on the rode but that wingthing in the twisties just isn't nearly as much fun.
Aug 24th, 2008 8:45 pm
fpmlt
Re: Never again

In all honesty, I do understand ej's point. I took my HD out for a spin, about 360 miles, yesterday, and can say that I never gave a thought to it leaving me high and dry. In 16,000 miles, not a single problem. With the LT, it's a different story. I've been stuck with broken shift linkage, and the final drive and clutch are always in the back of my mind. Other side of that coin, is that while those thoughts are back there, it doesn't stop me from having some great rides. It easily keeps up with everything I travel with, and more comfortably than the others. It is simply an amazing piece of machinery. Will it fail me? Probably, especially the way I ride it. Does that discourage me? Sure, but it ain't gonna' stop me. The wife and I love it no end.
Aug 24th, 2008 8:37 pm
SirRidzAlot
Re: Never again

I own 3 Honda motorcycles (one of which is a Goldwing) and a BMW GS. I joined this forum to learn more about the LT. I really like the Goldwing but have been considering changing to the LT.

Regarding brake fluid changes - I checked the maintenance schedule for all 3 of my Honda motorcyles - each one states to replace the brake fluid every 12,000 miles or 2 years which ever comes first.

I change my brake fluid every year for all of my motorcycles.

to say or imply that you don't have to change the fluid in a Goldwing is simply ignoring the recommended service intervals Honda has identifed for their product line.

I do all of my maintenance on all of my motorcycles - mainly because I enjoy it and also I believe that I actually provide more care in performing because I am not under any time constraints imposed on me by a mainenance manager.

Bottom line - if you perform the maintenance that is prescibed by the service intervals each brand of motorcycle has a number of tasks that have to be done. some are easier than other; it's your choice what you want to do and not do --- and at your own peril.

for automobiles I did a quick search of the internet and as you can see the majority of manufacturers are also recommending the brake fluid be changed:
"OEM BRAKE FLUID RECOMMENDATIONS

What do the auto makers say about fluid changes? General Motors and Chrysler do not mention brake fluid in their scheduled maintenance recommendations. A General Motors spokesman said Delco Supreme 11 DOT 3 brake fluid contains additives than many other brake fluids do not, so it is essentially a lifetime fluid. Starting in 1993, GM began using a new type of rubber brake hose with an EPM lining and outer jacketing that reduces moisture penetration by 50%. So GM does not consider fluid contamination to be a significant problem.

Ford, however, recently changed its position and now recommends fresh fluid every 36,000 miles or three years, and to replace the fluid each time the brake pads are changed.

Several import vehicle manufacturers also recommend brake fluid changes for preventive maintenance. In Europe, brake fluid changes are often recommended. BMW says the fluid should be changed every two years. Honda recommends a flush & fill every 25,000 to 30,000 miles. Subaru also recommends a 30,000 mile brake fluid change. Volkswagen recommends changing the fluid every two years, and clearly states this in their owners manuals.

If motorists would only follow this simple advice to change their brake fluid periodically, they could greatly reduce the risks associated with moisture-contaminated brake fluid. The could extend the life of their brake systems and likely save themselves a lot of money in the long run, especially if their vehicle is equipped with ABS (because ABS modulators are very expensive to replace!)."

source - http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfluid.htm article - Why Change Brake Fluid


maybe you drive GM vehicles since you never change your auto brake fluid
Aug 24th, 2008 8:20 pm
motorman587
Re: Never again

Bigdaddymoney is that you?????????
Aug 24th, 2008 8:09 pm
Jerrym
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tat_n_Telle
Whaaaa, whaaaaa, whaaaaaa.

Brake fluid needs to be changed. Period. Read the maintenance manual on your cage. Don't want to do it? Fine, please don't tailgate me. Oh, and I don't know of ANY manufacturer (car, bike, whatever) that allows shop overhauls of ABS units. Replacement only. Maybe if you had changed your fluid...... oh, right, that doesn't have to be done on any vehicle. Check.

Ferrari cars must be a piece of crap, otherwise there'd be dealers on every corner.

Don't go away mad, just go away.
I have a 2000 Ford Explorer it has 47,000 miles on it. The Ford dealer that I purchased it from has always serviced it. They have flushed the antifreeze and transmission. I have asked several times about the brake fluid and they say it is fine.
Aug 24th, 2008 7:30 pm
Tat_n_Telle
Re: Never again

Whaaaa, whaaaaa, whaaaaaa.

Brake fluid needs to be changed. Period. Read the maintenance manual on your cage. Don't want to do it? Fine, please don't tailgate me. Oh, and I don't know of ANY manufacturer (car, bike, whatever) that allows shop overhauls of ABS units. Replacement only. Maybe if you had changed your fluid...... oh, right, that doesn't have to be done on any vehicle. Check.

Ferrari cars must be a piece of crap, otherwise there'd be dealers on every corner.

Don't go away mad, just go away.
Aug 24th, 2008 6:43 pm
Jerrym
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodey
I just did a search and could not find any other posts about faulty Gaskets on the ABS ..Can other members enlighten me about the many riders that are having issues here....TIA
I purchased a 2005 LT and had it 2 years 4 months and put 57,000 miles on it. I did all my own service just as BMW required. I changed the motor oil and rear drive oil every 3,000 miles. Transmission every other time. The bike was will maintained. ABS brakes is about the only thing I did not have trouble with but the the fluid was flushed twice. The maintenance is a hassel even when you do it yourself. You soon get tired of doing that when you do a lot of riding. If I had not been retired I would not of had time. The following are the problems I had with it.

Radio replaced
Front fork seals leaked and replaced.
Transmission output shaft seal leaked and replaced.
Drilled weep hole for the slave cylinder.
Complete rear drive replaced
Gas Quick connects leaked and had to be replaced.
Complete instrument cluster went out and had to be replaced.

This is the reason I no longer own an LT and have a 2008 Gold Wing. My Gold Wing has just about 20,000 miles on it and has never been back to the dealer. Takes about ten minutes to change the motor oil and filter. No 12,000 mile checks, no brake flush, no valve check. Every two years you might change the air filter and spark plugs. Very few do that often. The only thing I have done is replaced the tires at 14,000 miles.

I loved to ride the LT but the Gold Wing is so much or comfortable to ride. The LT is a little better in the twists but not that much better. I enjoy riding the Gold Wing so much better because I don't worry about being stranded on the road. When I heard people carrying rear drives with them or having one boxed at home to ship out if they broke down is when I sold my LT.
Aug 24th, 2008 6:04 pm
Rockdoc
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Good brakes absolutely require that there are no compressable bubbles in the fluid, be it air, or steam.
What you said! Years ago our car went to a garage for the annual road-worthiness test, what we call the MOT. I had replaced the front pads, the rear shoes and bled the brakes so I was astonished when I was told that they'd needed to bleed the brakes again to get it through.

The first time I had to stop from above a walking pace - from only about 40mph - my foot went straight to the floor. With my wife and two small daughters aboard I wasn't impressed. I managed to get home without hitting anything and bled the brakes. By the time I'd done the 20 miles to my in-laws I had to do it again.

As you can imagine, I went to the garage in an absolutely incandescent mood. The head mechanic refused to accept any responsibility because they'd used a new tool they'd invented themselves. He proudly told me they screwed a container to the reservoir, added brake fluid and then pushed the fluid around the system using a compressed air line.

I had to purge the system completely to fix it and it was amazing how much fluid i had to use to get every last bubble out.

Keith
Aug 24th, 2008 5:56 pm
Frenchy
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
To all who love the BMW. Make sure that you have a full wallet when purchasing these machines...
I agree with that.
I really love this bike, but quality is really not what it must be at this price range
We can NOT honestly shoot eejaay1 for saying that, as many of us here have said it at one time.

BMW are so expensives. It is not in any way justified

** sarcasm ON **
You need some piston seals ? No sir, you have to buy the complete pistons/seals kit. Yes that 3 times the price of other brands.
You need the latch of your topcase ? No sir, you have to buy the complete gold plated thing.
You broke you FD ? Sir we can't do nothing, that's going to be expensive...

** sarcasm OFF **

I changed the shocks. I changed the brake lines. I did the complete 12k maintenance. Now it's up for sale as I can no longer afford it

BUT, and that's the important part, I may be mad again and bought a 3rd one when I could. As it IS a great bike indeed...
Aug 24th, 2008 4:30 pm
woodey
Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
Look dude. I don't need a lecture from you or anybody else. I have been working on these things for years. If you don't like what I have to say, then don't read it. If you want to know facts, the reason there are no dealers in the states is because of the bikes track record. Who in the hell wants to tackle a bike that has as many issues as these do. If your toes are sore right now its because the truth hurts. I am not here to argue. Am I mad? Yes. I paid good money for a bike that I knew was going to need some maintenance but not to the tune of 2200.00. And then find out that many riders of BMW's are having the same prob. This is not a coincedence. And to all, I did not get on here to offend anyone. I am sorry if I have. Many of you have helped just by some of your posting. That is very much appreciated. But for those of you who want to argue and throw in your snide comments, have at it. I am just stating what a lot of others are thinking. Maintenance on this bike is not the issue. Forking out 2200 for a gasket going bad is a manufactuers issue in my opinion. Where are the parts that these things require to keep them starting and stopping. And for the gentleman that would rather ride his skateboard then a wing, is there ABS on your board. If there is don't forget to change the fluid once a year. Thanks to all who posted with a thought or a concern.
I just did a search and could not find any other posts about faulty Gaskets on the ABS ..Can other members enlighten me about the many riders that are having issues here....TIA
Aug 24th, 2008 3:37 pm
eeejaay1
Re: Never again

Look dude. I don't need a lecture from you or anybody else. I have been working on these things for years. If you don't like what I have to say, then don't read it. If you want to know facts, the reason there are no dealers in the states is because of the bikes track record. Who in the hell wants to tackle a bike that has as many issues as these do. If your toes are sore right now its because the truth hurts. I am not here to argue. Am I mad? Yes. I paid good money for a bike that I knew was going to need some maintenance but not to the tune of 2200.00. And then find out that many riders of BMW's are having the same prob. This is not a coincedence. And to all, I did not get on here to offend anyone. I am sorry if I have. Many of you have helped just by some of your posting. That is very much appreciated. But for those of you who want to argue and throw in your snide comments, have at it. I am just stating what a lot of others are thinking. Maintenance on this bike is not the issue. Forking out 2200 for a gasket going bad is a manufactuers issue in my opinion. Where are the parts that these things require to keep them starting and stopping. And for the gentleman that would rather ride his skateboard then a wing, is there ABS on your board. If there is don't forget to change the fluid once a year. Thanks to all who posted with a thought or a concern.
Aug 24th, 2008 3:36 pm
quohog
Re: Never again

1 wing every 3.33 not likely to ever have a problem.

what about trade in value depreciation.
Dealers love trade ins.

I wonder if 2200.00 was lost over 20 years for 6 wings

If you dont pay for Maint. money must be spent somewhere else!
Aug 24th, 2008 3:34 pm
woodey
Re: Never again

you know ..


For a thread that started out a rant...and a poor one at that...I really feel like i learned some things here...thanks for the tips guys....i even got a laugh or two out of it..
Aug 24th, 2008 3:34 pm
JPSpen
Re: Never again

Dude, Ease up,

These are special machines and require a little maintenance.. Perhaps a little more babying than other bikes...

But, Ride her in the twisties. or have to do that straight on panic stop and you'll see why all this was necessary...The bike will save your ass where on another machine you might have died... I've been there. Rode my LT like a dirt bike over some railroad tracks in the wet in a slide. On a curve. She came right up.


That's too bad about your ABS pump. The brake maintenance is probably the most overlooked on these bikes..

There are several on this site who have undertaken repair of the pump themselves.. It's just a gasket.. You can probably get some gasket material and if you're carefull and go slowly you might make a gasket yourself.. Who knows.. Don't let what other people "tell" you stop you from trying to fix it yourself.. Hell, it's broken right now... Even if you just don't fix it. You've got normal brakes like 98 percent of the other bikes right ? Or did I miss something about this that makes your bike unrideable until fixed...

I didn't check to see if it's servo or not.. if it is i'm sorry.....

Hopefully not.. Look at Beemerboneyard and those kinds of places for another ABS pump... And change your damn fluid youself... Learn how to do it. Someone here I'll bet would show you how... Attend a tech session.

Get through this and things will be ok... You've got a special machine.

Anyone can ride a Honda.....And if that's what you want, I'm sure they're great bikes. I was looking at a triked Goldwing today the looked pretty freakin' sweet...


Good Luck. Sorry you're having issues.

John
Aug 24th, 2008 3:28 pm
dwsdad
Re: Never again

Ya know, Eeejaay1 has a point. You don't HAVE to change brake fluid every year. Just like you don't have to change oil regularly, or check you tire pressure, or change spark plugs, or change coolant...............

Remind me to NOT buy a used vehicle from him.
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