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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Feb 15th, 2007 1:04 am
Seeker
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
I don't like the physics of a reverse Tricycle setup.
I've flown conventional landing gear equipped planes as well as Tail Draggers
Perhaps the engineers took this into consideration with the Spyder and made compensations in the design to prevent it.jm2cw
Can't be compared to a tail dragger in any way. The rear wheel on the tail dragger is multidirectional, just itching to yaw on you and requiring massive rudder input.

No such worries here.

BRP Can-Am Spyder First Look


Bruno
Montreal, Canada
http://pages.videotron.com/mcrides
Feb 8th, 2007 11:03 am
ben1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
I don't like the physics of a reverse Tricycle setup. I
I can't speak specifically to the "Spyder" but I can tell you that a trike with two wheels in front inherently handles better that one with two wheels in the rear, all other things equal. I have a Grinnall Scorpion 111 trike and can tell you from experience that it handles more like a race car than any conventional trike. Of course, it has a much lower COG than conventional trikes or the Spyder. It is possible to make it oversteer though one must work at it since it has so much tire surface. In that event, it is easy to gather and power/steer out of the slide.
Feb 7th, 2007 8:09 pm
RonKMiller
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkramer
That would make sense given the challenges of driving a sidecar rig which is essentially a conventional trike with the front wheel out of whack. It also makes intuitive sense that the two-up-front is more stable given simple principles of momentum and vector physics. Which would you rather try doing a stoppie with?

Airplanes, (being airplanes and not cars), aren't engineered for great road performance. The landing gear is primarily engineered for, well, landing. Taxiing is a secondary design goal. So likening any 2F/1R road trike to a tail-dragger plane is strictly academic. On the ground the airplane has a very high CG relative to its points of support (the wheels), and its fore-aft component is rather close to the front landing gear, if retractable, less so with fixed gear. Whereas the reverse trike would have it's CG significantly lower (approaching the wheel axes) and distributed more equitably fore-aft (60/40?). So you're essentially comparing a shopping cart to a pallet jack.
Ya know, if you put some fatter rubber on this bad boy....
Feb 7th, 2007 2:28 pm
tkramer
Quote:
Originally Posted by TandemCyclist
I've read research for years that proves this configuration is far superior to two wheels in back. I'll see if I can dig it up. I would rather spin out than turn over. Most people know how to recover from a skid in a car, and this would be the same. Most don't know how to drive a regular trike back under it's CG.
That would make sense given the challenges of driving a sidecar rig which is essentially a conventional trike with the front wheel out of whack. It also makes intuitive sense that the two-up-front is more stable given simple principles of momentum and vector physics. Which would you rather try doing a stoppie with?

Airplanes, (being airplanes and not cars), aren't engineered for great road performance. The landing gear is primarily engineered for, well, landing. Taxiing is a secondary design goal. So likening any 2F/1R road trike to a tail-dragger plane is strictly academic. On the ground the airplane has a very high CG relative to its points of support (the wheels), and its fore-aft component is rather close to the front landing gear, if retractable, less so with fixed gear. Whereas the reverse trike would have it's CG significantly lower (approaching the wheel axes) and distributed more equitably fore-aft (60/40?). So you're essentially comparing a shopping cart to a pallet jack.
Feb 6th, 2007 6:55 pm
TandemCyclist
Safer

I've read research for years that proves this configuration is far superior to two wheels in back. I'll see if I can dig it up. I would rather spin out than turn over. Most people know how to recover from a skid in a car, and this would be the same. Most don't know how to drive a regular trike back under it's CG.

Luckily I have never ground looped an airplane, but my reflexes and currency levels continue to decline, so. Did a nice slalom through the runway lights one time and have sucked some serious seat up my ass a several times.
Feb 6th, 2007 11:53 am
tkramer
Yeah, but does that contraption LEAN in turns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
I don't like the physics of a reverse Tricycle setup.

I've flown conventional landing gear equipped planes as well as Tail Draggers and Ground Looping a bike would be a killer.

Perhaps the engineers took this into consideration with the Spyder and made compensations in the design to prevent it.

jm2cw
I agree. Even conventional trike configs have an inherent stability risk. Remember, ATVs used to be trikes until too many people were flipping them over. They were outlawed and replaced by quads.

BUT

If the Spyder has a pivot-and-lean chassis like the Piaggio MP3 then I think those worries are unfounded.

Edit: After reading the NY Times story, it looks as if it doesn't lean. what's the fun in that?
Feb 6th, 2007 11:09 am
messenger13 Last fall, we had a rather lengthy thread trying to figure out who the manufacturer of this vehicle could be. Many thought BMW, Artic Cat, VW, etc., etc... Mystery solved eh?!
Feb 6th, 2007 10:44 am
Florian
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjessen

BTW, nope, I never have ground looped a tail dragger...yet!
We all do....just give it time....mine was day 1 of taildragger training. Quite the embarrasment.


F
Feb 6th, 2007 9:17 am
pjessen
Put wings on it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
I don't like the physics of a reverse Tricycle setup.

I've flown conventional landing gear equipped planes as well as Tail Draggers and Ground Looping a bike would be a killer.

Perhaps the engineers took this into consideration with the Spyder and made compensations in the design to prevent it.

jm2cw
Well, maybe wings would cushion the crash! They do have much larger wheels, all the weight is much lower and inside the wheels instead of an airframe and fuel tanks that are high and wide, and a much larger tailwheel hooked to a shorter wheel base that would have a harder time swinging outside the primary trail. Plus, its got ABS.

Love to test it. Looks like a good alternative to two wheels for some folks.

BTW, nope, I never have ground looped a tail dragger...yet!
Feb 6th, 2007 8:27 am
pjessen
Great price point

Unless I'm missing something, the $14 to 16k for this rig is quite reasonable compared to those with converted BMW motors that were about $50k. This should stick a fork in that charade.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/au...in&oref=slogin
Feb 5th, 2007 12:59 am
Hilton
Why The Weight Belt on the Pillion ?

Just noticed the belt the pillion is wearing. Seems like some serious "calories" and isn't that back tire feeling it. Think I still prefer the Hannigan, seems more "Pure"
Feb 5th, 2007 12:35 am
Morley It is interesting. Hope they do better with that than they did with the Global Express...They got spanked on that one.
Feb 4th, 2007 12:12 pm
DRothermel
Here comes the Spyder!

A few months ago there were some spy shots circulating on the net of this radical three wheeler. Much speculation about what it was, who was developing it, etc. No more speculation. The secret is out! Makes another nice option instead of a trike, when some of us actually get old enough to be qualified as an "old fart." It certainly would be more stable than a trike and with stability control and ABS......priceless! Dick

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/02/...der-motorcycle

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