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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Dec 16th, 2006 12:16 am
reds
Swing Arm Troubles continue!

Bill
I just went through the same exact scenario.
I used heat, breaker bar and when I used 1" drive breaker bar Head of pivot pin stripped out. At that point with the help of BMWLT members I removed swingarm with pin still attached and took to machine shop.
It took over two hours for machine shop to remove. (Final solution was to drill it out) I then purchased tap to clean threads.
Bike is back up and running.
If you need to borrow tap let me know.
Good Luck hope all works out.
Dec 15th, 2006 9:35 pm
cccpastorjack
Hans...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
I certainly don't know it all, probably never will,
but I have learned a few things working on motorcycles for 40 years
and industrial printing presses (newspaper) for the last 20.
I have a limited amount of tools in my garage, drill press, bandsaw, lathe etc,
Even a 1" drive socket set, just not down to 14mm,
I can handle most things but not all.
This swingarm is one or them.

I busted 3 - 6 point 1/2" drive sockets with my 1/2" breaker bar and old HD forktube
(of course they were the inferior Craftsman sockets )
I did all this while I had my torch on the pivot pin and my industrial heat gun on the swingarm
until the other end of it got too hot to touch.
It didn't budge. And yes I tried air impact also.

You might be real proud of your tools and I'm certain they're top quality,
but I'm not naive enough to believe that that swingarm gives a damn what brand socket gets it loose
and I'd be willing to bet that my 270# self
can break any brand name socket you've got doing the same procedure.

There, I've said it and I feel better now.

...I was just trying to help. I fully apologize. I was not in any way trying to boast or brag. It was just that with all the problems folks had been experiencing with either "stuck" or "rounded" bolts, I wanted to encourage the use of the best fitting tools out there. The last thing I would want to do is discourage anyone who is already struggling with a mechanical problem. Thanks for understanding and please accept my apologies.
Dec 15th, 2006 4:35 pm
SilverBuffalo
Give me a break

I certainly don't know it all, probably never will,
but I have learned a few things working on motorcycles for 40 years
and industrial printing presses (newspaper) for the last 20.
I have a limited amount of tools in my garage, drill press, bandsaw, lathe etc,
Even a 1" drive socket set, just not down to 14mm,
I can handle most things but not all.
This swingarm is one or them.

I busted 3 - 6 point 1/2" drive sockets with my 1/2" breaker bar and old HD forktube
(of course they were the inferior Craftsman sockets )
I did all this while I had my torch on the pivot pin and my industrial heat gun on the swingarm
until the other end of it got too hot to touch.
It didn't budge. And yes I tried air impact also.

You might be real proud of your tools and I'm certain they're top quality,
but I'm not naive enough to believe that that swingarm gives a damn what brand socket gets it loose
and I'd be willing to bet that my 270# self
can break any brand name socket you've got doing the same procedure.

There, I've said it and I feel better now.
Dec 15th, 2006 3:41 pm
grifscoots Some of these babies get corroded in purdy good where breaking them is the only way to get them out. I've seen air impacts do some purdy amazing thangs with 120 lbs on the air compressor. I think it's the hammering action. But, if it hasn't been tried yet-quick... someone bring me an LT!!



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Dec 15th, 2006 2:09 pm
kevincook
Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
What's y'all's opinion of heating that baby up and then using a beeg ol' impact wrench set at 120 lbs?
Grif,

That should be fine. You won't do any damage at all....I think the threaded ring won't even know that you are there. The release torque is very high. I don't think the impact wrench will touch it unless you get one good for 400ft-lb.

Note: Just to clarify. The right threaded ring is the one that is really tough to break loose. The rest of the parts should come out without too much trouble. Bulletbill fought the threaded ring and finally removed it. He actually broke the right bearing stud...this part should have come out very easily. Something is wrong here, this was either incorrectly assembled, has been damaged or there is loctite on the parts.

Good Luck,
Kevin
Dec 15th, 2006 1:18 pm
blouw
Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
What's y'all's opinion of heating that baby up and then using a beeg ol' impact wrench set at 120 lbs?
Grif, All I know is that it took a 4' rusty iron pipe with Bill Hoch hanging on the end to break mine loose . This was slipped over a 1/2in breaker bar with a Craftsman 14mm impact wrench (the black non-shiny kind)
The tightening torque is 150lbs for the threaded ring and 120lbs for the bearing studs.
To loosen it I am guestimating about 400ft/lbs plus. Torque wrench only went up to 200lbs and that is not good to use as a breaker bar.
Where were you when it popped loose??
Oh yeah, I remember, you had a new toy you were breaking in
Dec 15th, 2006 11:03 am
grifscoots What's y'all's opinion of heating that baby up and then using a beeg ol' impact wrench set at 120 lbs?



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Dec 15th, 2006 10:38 am
cccpastorjack
You Are Smooth As Ex-lax!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwp767
Now I know it HAD to be my smooth action on that breaker bar that made all the difference in our success! Must be my non "herky jerky" airline training!?

"At the Tech Session I just hosted we used my Snap On Tools...NOTHING less than 1/2 inch drive on the Swing Arm and things went very well. We used a six point 30mm socket...a Snap On Breaker Bar (24" long handle with a well-fitted 4 foot cheater bar) and had no problems. We also had one person keeping the socket fitted snugly on the threaded ring (to keep it from slipping off - even a little) and another person applying torque slowly and evenly--nothing herky jerky. "
Wes,

As I told everyone at the session. YOU ARE THE MAN.

Anyway, I kept hearing people using terms like "Busting bolts loose" and "Busting wrenches" and just thought I should remind everyone that "Easy does it" even when the going gets tough...heat that sucker up...let it sit for at least 3-5 minutes to let heat fully penetrate and deactivate any lock-tite...heat it up again and then SLOWLY AND SMOOOOOTHLY apply approriate torque with the proper tools and success rate increases dramatically.

Of course, Wes, with YOU in the equation, the success rate is 100%!!!
Dec 14th, 2006 10:38 pm
jwp767 Now I know it HAD to be my smooth action on that breaker bar that made all the difference in our success! Must be my non "herky jerky" airline training!?

"At the Tech Session I just hosted we used my Snap On Tools...NOTHING less than 1/2 inch drive on the Swing Arm and things went very well. We used a six point 30mm socket...a Snap On Breaker Bar (24" long handle with a well-fitted 4 foot cheater bar) and had no problems. We also had one person keeping the socket fitted snugly on the threaded ring (to keep it from slipping off - even a little) and another person applying torque slowly and evenly--nothing herky jerky. "
Dec 14th, 2006 10:17 pm
hoodoodrum Jack,
No doubt you have some fine tools. I have seen many fine mechanics use "Craftsman Tools" and have no problems though. Knowing what I know now about the strength of tool necessary to break that pivot pin, I would have used any number of better tool combinations. Bottom line is that the procedure we are performing requires one heck of alot of leverage. I didn't realize that until my t-handle bent. Next time I'll use my backhoe. lolol

BTW... our session went fairly smooth. I broke out a heavy duty ratchet that performed flawlessly.
Dec 14th, 2006 9:14 pm
cccpastorjack
The Right Tools Are A Neccessity For This Job!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by McAllister




Here is a breaker bar. It's larger than the T-Handle and stronger. The length "B" can be anywhere from a few inches for a 1/4 inch drive to a couple of feet if you are taking down a D-7 CAT. When you use a cheater bar (ie. your big piece of pipe) the pipe has a much longer lever to leverage against.

Quote:
Bill, yes, I know this tool, but don't own one. The t-handle I had did just fine with three out of four pins/nuts on the swingarm. I have beaten the crap out out of that t-handle for many stubborn fasteners and it was just fine. In the future, I will locate or buy the breaker for the heavy duty jobs. Thanks


ANSWER...
For what it's worth...and please don't take this wrong...but part of the problem may be the fact that people keep mentioning "craftsman" tools and showing pictures of totally inadequate tools to perform this job.

At the Tech Session I just hosted we used my Snap On Tools...NOTHING less than 1/2 inch drive on the Swing Arm and things went very well. We used a six point 30mm socket...a Snap On Breaker Bar (24" long handle with a well-fitted 4 foot cheater bar) and had no problems. We also had one person keeping the socket fitted snugly on the threaded ring (to keep it from slipping off - even a little) and another person applying torque slowly and evenly--nothing herky jerky.

Very Seriously....as we all know, this job can "get sideways" if you make a mistake. Basically, you get one shot at it and you can't afford to risk using anything less than the best tools. Round off a threaded ring (or any other swing arm fastener) and you're in BIG trouble!

One guy asked me at the tech session, "Do you just have a thing for expensive tools or are you just filthy rich?" The answer -- NEITHER...But, I have been turning wrenches long enough to know without a doubt that the right tools make ALL the difference!

Snap On's motto - "There is a Difference" That's why I use them! (Or at least Matco or Mac Tools).
Dec 14th, 2006 8:37 pm
hoodoodrum
Quote:
Originally Posted by McAllister




Here is a breaker bar. It's larger than the T-Handle and stronger. The length "B" can be anywhere from a few inches for a 1/4 inch drive to a couple of feet if you are taking down a D-7 CAT. When you use a cheater bar (ie. your big piece of pipe) the pipe has a much longer lever to leverage against.
Bill, yes, I know this tool, but don't own one. The t-handle I had did just fine with three out of four pins/nuts on the swingarm. I have beaten the crap out out of that t-handle for many stubborn fasteners and it was just fine. In the future, I will locate or buy the breaker for the heavy duty jobs. Thanks
Dec 14th, 2006 7:21 am
McAllister
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
I did use a "breaker bar". A section of cast pipe slipped over the "t-handle" as you call it.




Here is a breaker bar. It's larger than the T-Handle and stronger. The length "B" can be anywhere from a few inches for a 1/4 inch drive to a couple of feet if you are taking down a D-7 CAT. When you use a cheater bar (ie. your big piece of pipe) the pipe has a much longer lever to leverage against.
Dec 14th, 2006 1:44 am
meese
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjaun2
I am sure that bike has a big totalled sign attached to it.
You're probably right. But it would be a great tech session. How about at CCR? It'll be like one of those beat the clock reality shows. "How will they ever get it all running in 5 days?" (Just don't let them see you slide your bike in the side door. )
Dec 14th, 2006 12:16 am
robasay Glad to see you got the swing arm off. I have been following this thread and noticed one thing during the discussions. Did you use any heat before your first attempt to loosen the pins, etc. ? When I was at my local dealer getting the necessary parts one of the shop managers strongly recommended heating up the area with a heat gun or a propane torch to about 170 degrees. He advised that this was "necessary" to break loose the threads
Dec 13th, 2006 10:53 pm
sanjaun2
Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Maybe Brian should buy that one and swap the frame over. Then he'd no longer have a salvaged bike.
Ken,
My bike only has a few scuffs on the paint and a broken windshield mechanism. Are you trying to torture me? I am sure that bike has a big totalled sign attached to it.
Dec 13th, 2006 10:20 pm
hoodoodrum The 1/2 inch works, but bigger can be better as well. I wonder what the dealers use.....
Dec 13th, 2006 7:31 pm
Patric I haven't taken the swing arm off of my LT . But it sounds like you need to use either 3/4" OR 1" drive stuff to disassemble it . I have a 1" drive ratch handle and a 3/4" Slide bar handle . I don't use them on the motorcycle reassemble (;-Ľ) , but I have had to brake them out for disassembly .

I use them along with a 1" drive 50-to-600 LBS. torque wrench on the wheels on our motorhome . Hope this is of help...patric ...
Dec 13th, 2006 6:20 pm
hoodoodrum
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
I broke three 1/2" drive (Craftsman) sockets using an old Harley fork tube as a cheater bar,
then was forced to resort to a 3/8" drive socket and 1/2" to 3/8" reducer with a 1/2" breaker bar,
if you go back to the picture you can see that I twisted the 3/8" end of the reducer.
It ain't no picnic.
I believe it!!!!! Most of the loosening of the bearing nuts and one stud were fairly smooth though still tight. It is always the one bad apple and did that baby "POP"!!

I'm sure from those who have done it, we would highly recommend getting your hands on a heavy duty solid 1/2 inch flex socket handle, 6 point sockets and the 4 foot galvanized pipe for leverage.
Dec 13th, 2006 2:59 pm
SilverBuffalo I broke three 1/2" drive (Craftsman) sockets using an old Harley fork tube as a cheater bar,
then was forced to resort to a 3/8" drive socket and 1/2" to 3/8" reducer with a 1/2" breaker bar,
if you go back to the picture you can see that I twisted the 3/8" end of the reducer.
It ain't no picnic.
Dec 13th, 2006 2:01 pm
hoodoodrum
Quote:
Originally Posted by McAllister
That's a T Handle. No wonder it bent. I'd of thought you would have used a breaker bar.
I did use a "breaker bar". A section of cast pipe slipped over the "t-handle" as you call it. I've used that "t-handle" for lots of tough applications including (breaker bar) and NEVER bent it. The idea here is that the pivot stud/30mm bearing nut can be a royal P.I.T.A. to get loose.
Dec 13th, 2006 12:48 pm
McAllister That's a T Handle. No wonder it bent. I'd of thought you would have used a breaker bar.
Dec 13th, 2006 9:35 am
hoodoodrum If it's any consolation.... During my slave drill tech session, the half inch Craftsman socket handle I used, was bent by the force of the leverage of the 4 foot steel pipe trying to bust the right pivot stud loose. I know it is lathed handle, but I have busted loose MANY other fasteners and never had it bend.
Had to use an alternate 1/2 inch ratchet handle. Check out the photo.
Dec 13th, 2006 3:04 am
meese
Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
There is a K1200LT on Ebay that may have many of the parts you need at a VERY affordable price.
Maybe Brian should buy that one and swap the frame over. Then he'd no longer have a salvaged bike.
Dec 12th, 2006 6:56 pm
cccpastorjack
That's Awesome...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletbill
Well off the machine shop. IT CAME OUT!!!! After we have prayed, layed hands on the thing, threaten the cuss and then curse this thing, I pull the drive shaft and the swing arm jump out into my hands. I will take it to the machine shop tomorrow and believe that they will be able to remove the left pivot pin.

I want to thank everyone that has offered suggestions, help, parts, etc. now to do the minor job that we started to do. Replace the clutch slave cylinder and drill the drain hole. Man it almost 70 degree and I canít wait to get on the road again!

Praise The Lord! Glad for you Bro! I've been prayin' too! And yes, reading your thread did make me a bit nervous about hosting the Tech Session, but...courage is not the absence of fear. It is pressing on in spite of your fear! God was good!
Dec 12th, 2006 6:45 pm
bulletbill
Success!!!

Well off the machine shop. IT CAME OUT!!!! After we have prayed, layed hands on the thing, threaten the cuss and then curse this thing, I pull the drive shaft and the swing arm jump out into my hands. I will take it to the machine shop tomorrow and believe that they will be able to remove the left pivot pin.

I want to thank everyone that has offered suggestions, help, parts, etc. now to do the minor job that we started to do. Replace the clutch slave cylinder and drill the drain hole. Man it almost 70 degree and I canít wait to get on the road again!
Dec 12th, 2006 12:25 pm
Tourdog BulletBill,
Really sorry to hear of all those troubles. Questions: Did the right 30 mm threaded ring (same Q for the bearing stud) have any evidence of thread loc or steel/ aluminum corrosion? And, do you know if that swing arm had ever been off and back on since the factory? I think quite a few people here want to know as much as possible about this. Those that have hosted these R/R maintenance events really go out on a limb and riders come from great distances to get help and any incite you have might enable confidence to readily continue offering these "freely given seminars"! My "hat is off" to Jack (PastorJack) and others who have hosted these events in their garages.
Dec 12th, 2006 10:03 am
cccpastorjack
Possible Parts Bike???

Bill,

There is a K1200LT on Ebay that may have many of the parts you need at a VERY affordable price. I just thought I would mention it as an alternative. It was involved in a fire that damaged the front end, but looks like the swing arm, rear drive and rear end of bike is still good. Just a thought. Here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-K...QQcmdZViewItem
Dec 12th, 2006 9:51 am
SilverBuffalo
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletbill
All this brings me to a question. Can you remove the swing arm with the right one pivot pin removed?
Yes you can,
I know because I did it, the picture is proof.
but then I got stuck in the same place you did,
the left pivot pin will not budge.
I don't know if what I have here is any better than what you're dealing with,
but I'm willing to go out on a limb for you.
I would send you what I have (swingarm and bearings etc)
if you can make it work, you pay me the original agreed upon price,
if you can't you re-imburse me for the shipping.
How does that sound?
Dec 12th, 2006 8:17 am
jwp767 I can tell you that at The slave cylinder tech session last weekend, it took a 5 foot breaker bar with a 1/2 inch wrench to get those loose...and then they came loose with an audible bang that made me think we might have broken something. But that wasn't the case....they are just on tight and need the long bar to snap them loose.
Dec 11th, 2006 11:53 pm
hoodoodrum Good question. It's "possible", but again the challenges are that you only have so much room to pivot the right side out even after you pop the drive shaft off the output spindle. It's pretty tight as it is. Give it a shot.

Having several sets of arms available to steady the bike while you work a breaker bar on the left pivot stud does give you more leverage. May try that also.
Dec 11th, 2006 10:11 pm
bulletbill
Swing Arm Troubles continue!

If any of you had followed my problems with the attempt to remove the swing arm, it just would not come loose. We battled the right threaded ring for some time till it finally gave in, then the pivot pins refused to come out, heat, big break over, bigger impact wrenches, till we twisted the 14mm ends off. Next step we welded a 3/4Ē nut to the remaining shaft and the right one finally came out. Still fighting the left one.

All this brings me to a question. Can you remove the swing arm with the right one pivot pin removed?

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