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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Nov 14th, 2006 6:39 pm
dshealey
Quote:
Originally Posted by beemer100
I just got done with re-checking the clearances and used the techniques described earlier. Here is what I have calculated:

Intake:

.006, .007, .005, .006, .006, .006, .006 (tight), .006 (tight)


Exhaust:

.011 (all)

I am feeling a lot better now and want to thank everyone for their advice and support.

What suggestions might ya'll have in regards to the intake valves and which ones to replace with a smaller bucket. I would assume the .005 would need to be changed and probably the two tight .006's. What about the other .006's though?

Thanks a million,

James
My way is to replace any that are even slightly tight, and those that are at or very near minimum when the cams are coming out. They always wear tighter, and if you are doing the work anyway, do the ones at are very near minimum, then those will not likely need it again for a long time.

It is MUCH better to have a valve slightly loose than slightly tight, and the ones at minimum will likely be tight long before your next check.
Nov 14th, 2006 6:10 pm
beemer100
Better Numbers

I just got done with re-checking the clearances and used the techniques described earlier. Here is what I have calculated:

Intake:

.006, .007, .005, .006, .006, .006, .006 (tight), .006 (tight)


Exhaust:

.011 (all)

I am feeling a lot better now and want to thank everyone for their advice and support.

What suggestions might ya'll have in regards to the intake valves and which ones to replace with a smaller bucket. I would assume the .005 would need to be changed and probably the two tight .006's. What about the other .006's though?

Thanks a million,

James
Nov 14th, 2006 4:52 pm
beemer100
Valves out of tolerance

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Try to hold the feeler parallel to and against the follower face, and slip it under the cam. Least likely to have an "angle" problem that way.

Thanks Dave. I am going to try that technique.

James
Nov 14th, 2006 4:19 pm
dshealey
Quote:
Originally Posted by beemer100
Thanks Dave and Brian.

Dave, I will be trying again tomorrow and will be removing the blades from the tool.

Does it make a difference if you insert the feeler guage (at an angle) immediately into the crevice between the cam and the lifter, or if you start at the edge of the lifter with the guage and have it slide across into the crevice? I have not attempted the latter, but I'm trying to make sure to rule out all possibilities of an incorrect measurement.

Thanks,

James
Try to hold the feeler parallel to and against the follower face, and slip it under the cam. Least likely to have an "angle" problem that way.
Nov 14th, 2006 9:44 am
ronlray
Valve clearance measurement

I agree with Brian. If your meaurements are correct then more likely the valves were not checked at 12,000 miles. ALL the valves just don't go out of tolerence at the same time! The odds of that happening are astronomical. I say put your valve cover back on...run the engine for a while....start fresh and check them again after cooling down all night. If you get the same reading then call a buddy to check behind you. Change your feeler gauges. Do everything possible to be sure you've done it right before you have it torn down! And by all means, if you do adjust the valves, have the dealer record the new settings! You need this as a "standard" so next time you'll know how much they have changed. Good luck! Ron Ray
Nov 13th, 2006 10:03 pm
sanjaun2 I go straight in whenever possible. Which is all the time with the LT!
Nov 13th, 2006 10:01 pm
bowlesj
Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
You mean like "Parker Time"?
Oh yea, the pilots got to get hours to get to the majors somehow.

Eh Wes?
Nov 13th, 2006 8:54 pm
beemer100
Valves out of tolerance

Thanks Dave and Brian.

Dave, I will be trying again tomorrow and will be removing the blades from the tool.

Does it make a difference if you insert the feeler guage (at an angle) immediately into the crevice between the cam and the lifter, or if you start at the edge of the lifter with the guage and have it slide across into the crevice? I have not attempted the latter, but I'm trying to make sure to rule out all possibilities of an incorrect measurement.

Thanks,

James
Nov 13th, 2006 7:35 pm
sanjaun2 I have always moved the cams along by putting the bike in 5th gear and bumping the rear tire in the foward direction of travel. It is a little easier to bump in overdrive,
Nov 13th, 2006 6:53 pm
dshealey
Quote:
Originally Posted by beemer100
Steve, thanks for the reply and information. I am not familiar enough with feeler gauges to know the difference between drag and guild.

This is basically how I went about determining the valve clearance amount. If my feeler guage encountered enough resistance (for example, start to bend upon further insertion) once it came between the cam lobe and valve lifter, I then determined that I was at a smaller gap, and therefore I used a smaller sized feeler guage.------------James
As I have stated a few times before, you should be able to push the feeler gage through with two oily fingers gripping it. The best way is to take the feeler gages out of the set if you have a set that allows it, and use the blades individually, so that you do not have a "handle", which causes most to apply too much pressure. It takes surprisingly little pressure on a feeler gage to actually open the valve a little, giving you a false reading. Once pushed in like that, the drag will not be very high at all, so you will not know you have the valve sligtly off the seat. You can feel a little drag when doing it right, but VERY little!

To REALLY get it right, do as we used to do on drag race engines. Put a dial indicator on the top of the valve spring cap, and use a feeler gage that is a few thousandths larger than the required gap, push that in and read the valve deflection, subtract that from the feeler thickness, and you have the exact clearance. Example: using a 0.020" feeler, the valve deflects in 0.008", then you have 0.012 clearance.
Nov 13th, 2006 6:35 pm
beemer100
Valves out of tolerance

Steve, thanks for the reply and information. I am not familiar enough with feeler gauges to know the difference between drag and guild.

This is basically how I went about determining the valve clearance amount. If my feeler guage encountered enough resistance (for example, start to bend upon further insertion) once it came between the cam lobe and valve lifter, I then determined that I was at a smaller gap, and therefore I used a smaller sized feeler guage.

Trust me, I do hope that I am just measuring these improperly and need to learn the right way.

Oh yes, turning the wheel with your right foot is a joy indeed!

Thanks,

James
Nov 13th, 2006 6:16 pm
k2steve Howdy all' and James

James, how much drag on your feeler gauge did you allow? The feeler will go in kind of hard due to the angle of insertion but once it's in, it will guild easy.
If thats the way you did it you may want to re-do it. Once the feeler is between the cam and follower there should be some sure drag, not just guild.
But to go ahead and loosen up your valves will hurt nothin. I loosened up all of mine and it helped stop the pinging trouble I was having. Have fun rolling that rear wheel in 3rd gear.

Steve Ridgway
Black 2002 The slug.
Nov 13th, 2006 4:58 pm
beemer100
Valves out of tolerance

I confirmed about the 12k being performed and it was done by Hebert Cycles in Baton Rouge, LA at 12, 285 miles. The description indicates valves adjusted (3 buckets).

I think I am going to call them and see if they could explain why the valves would be this out of adjustment.

Thanks,

James
Nov 13th, 2006 3:26 pm
dshealey
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlesj
I love it, such aviation terminology
You mean like "Parker Time"?
Nov 13th, 2006 3:12 pm
bowlesj
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjaun2
pencil whipped by the dealer @ the 12k.
I love it, such aviation terminology
Nov 13th, 2006 2:51 pm
sanjaun2 If your valves actually are as you said, I bet they were bad from the factory and pencil whipped by the dealer @ the 12k.
Nov 13th, 2006 1:58 pm
bowlesj
Quote:
Originally Posted by beemer100
I don't understand how basically all the valves are out of tolerance. I bought this bike with the knowledge and paperwork that it had been dealer serviced and do know that it had the 12k service.

It's a bit frustrating to say the least.
There is no way they should be this far out if checked properly at 12K. I would try and contact the dealer to see what they have on file. That really doesn't help you much except give you a piece of mind letting them know they screwed up. I would have to disagree with anyone that says the valves will stretch .003" in 12K miles. I doubt anything got bent.

You get those all up to spec and your machine should have more power with all the valves closing correctly.

For point of reference I was extremely pleased to see that none of my valves changed one bit since I checked them at 12K and all are well within limits at 24k. My LT is a '04. For yours to be out that far seems ridiculous.
Nov 13th, 2006 1:34 pm
beemer100
Valves out of tolerance

Thanks Roy for the information. Glad you got your bike back together.

Ride on!

James
Nov 13th, 2006 12:56 pm
beemer100
Valves out of tolerance

Bruce, I double checked the lobe placement (at an up angle for intake and at a down angle for exhaust) and it was correct.

I did some re-checking on the exhaust valves, and I now am "feeling" , no pun intended, that the exhaust clearance is at .007 and not .008 for all the exhaust valves.

I don't understand how basically all the valves are out of tolerance. I bought this bike with the knowledge and paperwork that it had been dealer serviced and do know that it had the 12k service.

It's a bit frustrating to say the least.


Thanks for your help Bruce.

James
Nov 13th, 2006 12:48 pm
bigbear
Valve adjustments

Quote:
Originally Posted by beemer100
Hey guys/gals, this morning I have measured the intake/exhaust valve clearances and to my dismay, I seem to be way out of tolerance. Here are my findings:

Intake: .005, .006, .004, .005, .005, .005, .003, .003

Exhaust: .008 (all)

I did not remove the spark plugs and believe I have done the measurements properly.

What do I need to do now? This has got me concerned.

Thanks,

James
Hi Jim,
on my 02 with 20,415 miles I had to change all of the intake and only two exhaust valves. If your bike is like mine a lot of the shims are the same size so I couldn't reuse very many buckets. There was only three different size shims on 16 valves. Pretty darn good control of assembly tolerances.

You may want to get in touch with some of fellow Texican's and see if they some old buckets you can use. New they are over $14 each.

Just got mine back together Sunday so this is still fresh in my feeble mind.
Nov 13th, 2006 11:51 am
BruceHarrisJr James, are you sure you positioned the lobes correctly? The intake lobes should be positioned ~45 degrees up/north from the centerline of the camshaft. The exhaust lobes should be positioned ~45 degrees down/south from the centerline of the exhaust camshaft. If your measurements were made under these conditions then by all means you'll need to remove the camshafts and replace several shims of the correct thickness. I would do as David suggests and get another opinion before proceeding.

Good luck and keep us posted on your findings.
Nov 13th, 2006 11:29 am
beemer100
Valves out of Tolerance

Thanks David for the response.

The bike has 23.1k miles on it. 2002 model.

I figured these numbers to be extraordinary myself. I made sure to have the camshaft lobes positioned away from the valve lifters by turning the rear wheel for the valve checks. I then slid the feeler guage in between the camshaft and the valve lifter to determine fit and size. That is how I determined the numbers.

Thanks,
James
Nov 13th, 2006 11:17 am
dshealey
Quote:
Originally Posted by beemer100
Hey guys/gals, this morning I have measured the intake/exhaust valve clearances and to my dismay, I seem to be way out of tolerance. Here are my findings:

Intake: .005, .006, .004, .005, .005, .005, .003, .003

Exhaust: .008 (all)

I did not remove the spark plugs and believe I have done the measurements properly.

What do I need to do now? This has got me concerned.

Thanks,

James
Seems that you either measured something improperly, or all your valves need to be adjusted. It is not at all uncommon to have to adjust intakes before exhausts, but all your exhausts are below minimum and need to be adjusted up too. That is pretty extraordinary. How many miles on the bike? I would suggest you find a mechanic somewhere to take the measurements also and see if you match. It could be improper measuring procedure, a second opinion would be valuable here.

If you do adjust them, make a chart of the follower sizes and positions, you will likely be able to just switch at least half of them around, and only have to buy a few, or dealer swap take-outs if your dealer does that. Some do, some don't.
Nov 13th, 2006 11:01 am
beemer100
Valves out of tolerance

Hey guys/gals, this morning I have measured the intake/exhaust valve clearances and to my dismay, I seem to be way out of tolerance. Here are my findings:

Intake: .005, .006, .004, .005, .005, .005, .003, .003

Exhaust: .008 (all)

I did not remove the spark plugs and believe I have done the measurements properly.

What do I need to do now? This has got me concerned.

Thanks,

James

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