Daytime Riding -- High-Beam OK? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2006, 7:54 am Thread Starter
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Question Daytime Riding -- High-Beam OK?

As a result of another Lighting thread I've been hammering with questions, I thought I'd open this up for others' input and discussion:

What about driving during the daytime -- do you ride with the high-beam on?
I don't have (and probably won't get) a modulator, so we can leave that can of worms unopened.

I've always thought riding with the high-beam on, during the day, increased my safety (i.e., visibility). Is that notion mistaken?

Is it considered rude to do that? I'll turn it off if I'm in heavy city (surface street) traffic, where I'm right behind cars fulltime. Once in lighter traffic, or on the higway, it goes back on. Night riding, of course, it's low-beam only when oncoming traffic is present -- same as how I drive a car.

TIA for your experience and comments.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #2 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2006, 8:13 am
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Low beam HID and Highbeam Modulator

I keep them both on during the day, just out of self preservation unless I happen to be in very slow traffic and just creeping along, because I know the modulator is annoying the vehicles I am following. Unfortunately, both will annoy people that you are following, but from most of what I have read, it is one of the best methods of making your bike visible. I also pretend that everyone on the highway is out to get me and there is a big target on my back.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

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post #3 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2006, 8:59 am
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I ride with the high beam in daylight all the time, don't think the high beam on the LT could blind anyone!!

Tom McNulty
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post #4 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2006, 9:29 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
I've always thought riding with the high-beam on, during the day, increased my safety (i.e., visibility). Is that notion mistaken?
While daytime use of the high-beam does increase your visibility it does create another problem: It is very hard to judge the speed of a very bright light moving toward you. We calculate the distance an object is from us by it's size and it's closing speed by how fast the object is increasing in size as it approaches. High-beam use reduces the observers ability to judge your speed and distance because they focus on this bright light and it doesn't appear to change in size. This can cause them to guess your speed as much slower than it is and turn or pull out in front of you.

I prefer to use the high-beam flash button to alert drivers wanting to turn or pull out in front of me.

Bruce Hodges
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post #5 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2006, 11:33 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce2000ltc
...I prefer to use the high-beam flash button to alert drivers wanting to turn or pull out in front of me.
Bruce, I see that done a lot of times by car drivers, but haven't noticed it being done by riders (but then, not seeing too many bikes out these days because of the weather!).

My concern with flashing the high-beam is that drivers will interpret that as "Go ahead, it's safe to pull out", or "Go ahead, it's safe to turn left in front of me".

I prefer to use hand signals when possible. No misinterpretation that way (hopefully).

JMO.

Howard Schisler
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2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #6 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2006, 11:55 am
 
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Wink Want to be noticed!

Install a set of MotoLights and the triangle pattern will certainly catch the attention of oncoming traffic, and those in front.

Tim
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post #7 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2006, 12:13 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMarshal
Install a set of MotoLights and the triangle pattern will certainly catch the attention of oncoming traffic, and those in front.
Tim
Did that -- had them installed 2 weeks ago. I think their effectiveness is somewhat limited in heavy traffic, where it may not be possible to see the bottom half of vehicles.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #8 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2006, 12:39 pm
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I have read several articles on the use of full beam in daylight and whilst it does make you more visible there are considerable downsides.

As previously posted the inability to judge speeds effectively, especially that of a fast moving motorcycle. It's no good them seeing me if they still pull out in front of me!

Another problem is the reaction of cars in front of you who become intimidated/annoyed by your headlamp flashing in their mirror as you hit bumps in the road, this is a particular problem in this crowded Island i live on as 'road rage' incidents become more nasty.

By far the best lighting set up (IMHO) to be noticed is to add a set of auxiliary lights to get the triangle effect.

If you are really concerned about being seen, here in the UK it's amazing how people see you if you ride a white bike, wearing a white helmet and yellow fluorescent jacket (just like a traffic cop!!)
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post #9 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2006, 1:04 pm
 
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I'm of the opinion that it is rude to ride around with your high beams on in traffic, no matter what time it is...day or night. I am also a flasher from way back...so I wouldn't want that technique taken away from me by leaving my high beams on.
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post #10 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2006, 1:05 pm
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Howard,

Just get the low beam HID. That alone has made a huge difference in how often people see me coming. Triangulation with auxiliary lights is also good, but nothing beats HID.

Ken
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post #11 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2006, 1:13 pm
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Talking HID and PIAAs...

After nearly a year of riding with stock lighting, I converted the headlamp to HID via the wonderful HID-Online.com package and added a set of PIAA x1100s in the cowl.

The effect?? WOW...

For the first time, I actually felt I was being seen by drivers. No question. I have never been flashed for the HID brightness (I am VERY careful to keep it trimmed for load) or scatter from the PIAAs.

But, cars definitely SEE ME NOW! Whether it is the triangle thing or the HID, I can't be sure. But, the combination WORKS!

J. Averill Townsend
Bloomfield Hills, MI


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post #12 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 7:36 am
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I have a HID low and high beam both on my LT. I WILL NOT ride with the HID high beam on in the daytime. I consider it rude from my ride point and I would consider it rude from an oncoming or leading vehicle stand point. The HID low is way bright enough in the daytime and with MotoLights, I am very conspicous.

JM2CW.

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post #13 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 7:44 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
I use a High Beam Modulator for Conspicuity during the day light hours along with Amber Motolights.
I only turn it off in stop & go traffic and if following a Leo as they have a higher degree of situational awareness already.
And the concern of getting pulled over by Mr. LEO has nothing to do with it...right?
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post #14 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 7:46 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
I use a High Beam Modulator for Conspicuity during the day light hours along with Amber Motolights...
Interesting. How does one get amber Motolights -- is there a conversion (lens replacement? bulb replacement? both?) if, as in my case, Motolights are already installed?

Can I assume your intended use of Motolights, then, is mostly for visibility to oncoming traffic as opposed to better lighting for you, or are both goals obtained with the amber lights?

Do you have a photo of this setup?

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #15 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 7:51 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce2000ltc
... I prefer to use the high-beam flash button to alert drivers wanting to turn or pull out in front of me.

Bruce Hodges
I like using my BIG "Buick" horn ... its amazing to see the look on peoples faces ... kind of like "... was it that motorcycle that had that huge horn?" LOL, I love it.

Drive defensively, read "Proficient Motorcycling" and "More Proficient Motorcycling" and be aware of those crazy cagers!!

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post #16 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 8:05 am
 
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You want to make your MotoLights 'look" amber? Just install a low-beam HID. Now both sets of my MotoLights look amber compared to my low-beam!

They used to look almost the same...(here's an older pic)


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post #17 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 9:22 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
Here is a link to a photo taken Saturday at our SE RTE inGroveland Florida:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/attachme...achmentid=1954
Thanks.

Now... looking at that photo (mini-hijack -- "switching to Jpegs!"):
Am I correct in noticing that the bike in that photo has Jpegs, Mickopegs, and Highway Ottmans? If that's correct, tell me about that -- why all 3? Do they all do something different in terms of stretching your legs out? (yes, it's another topic for which I have 1,000 questions )

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #18 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 9:37 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
Hello, My Name is Dave. I'm a Farkleholic
Hi Dave! (in unison)
Yes you see all three on the DragonFly.
My mission to long-distance comfort has led me down several paths.

The Highway Ottomans are Great and I use them all the time.
The Mick-O-Pegs are by far the best Highway Peg system I've found for the LT.
The J-Pegs are not a good choice unless you enjoy the Gyno Exam position.

jm2cw.
LOL!! I now know what the "gyno exam" position means; saw it referenced in another thread recently but didn't have this verbiage to put it in context. Yikes.

I have none of these options on my LT... yet. How about a photo (from the side) of each of the 3 products in use? (yes, seems like I've been asking for lots of photos recently; they just help so much to understand how something works!) I have seen photos of the MOPs but they are focused in on the knee-ankle area; I'd like to see the whole riding position.

Are these the kinds of things one could expect (hope?) to have installed at a rally? (BMWMOA, BMWRA, STC, CCR...)

Also, looking at a mini-video clip of the MOPs on their site, it seems like they would be easy to snap off at the point where they connect to the bike. I think I saw some flexing happening in their video. Is that something to be concerned about?

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #19 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 9:54 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
-----------I am also a flasher from way back...so I wouldn't want that technique taken away from me----------
Yes, but do the let you do that near school zones now?

You put that one out there on a silver platter Joe!

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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post #20 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 11:25 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Yes, but do they let you do that near school zones now?

You put that one out there on a silver platter Joe!
Oops! Guess you caught me with me pants down again.
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post #21 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 12:23 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Oops! Guess you caught me with me pants down again.

Ken
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post #22 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 12:24 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
I am very conspicous.
You're pretty conspicuous even off the bike.

Ken
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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #23 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 3:27 pm
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Shucks. And I didn't think you noticed.

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post #24 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 4:29 pm
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Conspicuous can mean many things. If you tend to take it a certain way, then maybe you'd better look inside.

Ken
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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #25 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 4:31 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Conspicuous can mean many things. If you tend to take it a certain way, then maybe you'd better look inside.
Gotcha. I'll delete the previous reply. I was commenting on the recent direction of the thread, not one reply.

Howard Schisler
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2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #26 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 5:01 pm
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I think this is what Ken means by conspicious. Without the helmet I've got a unique 4 light visibility point.
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'00 Unigo - Dragon's Egg
'01 LTC - Flying Purple People Eater (Ya gotta be old enough to understand)(RIP)
'00 LTC - Canyon Red Rover (RIP)

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post #27 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 6:03 pm
 
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You're a good-lookin' guy Steve.

(Until you take that helmet off!)
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post #28 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 6:16 pm
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Howard, please notice lots of smiley faces in my previous post. It's all in fun here, no offense taken from either side.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #29 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 6:38 pm
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I was using the high beam during the day until someone pointed out to me that the low beam looks like 2 lights but the high beam you just see one bright light. Then I saw other LTs with them moto lights during the day and just had to get those. Now it looks like two additional points of light really add to your spotability. I don't think its brightness your eye notices but more points to look at. My $.02

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post #30 of 36 Old Feb 15th, 2006, 10:51 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Howard, please notice lots of smiley faces in my previous post. It's all in fun here, no offense taken from either side.
None taken here -- just playing it safe.

We all have experienced how electronic communications -- even with a variety of emoticons -- sometimes just don't convey the same nuance as personal communications.

No harm, no foul. Thanks.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #31 of 36 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 7:12 am
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Exclamation Hi beam use during the day

Conside the state in which you are riding also. Example: Here in MI, the Sec of State RECOMMENDS that motorcyclists ride with high beam on during daylight hours to increase the chance of being seen. BUT, when you cross into OH, the LAW in OH says a rider must switch to low beam during daylight hours when following or meeting traffic JUST THE SAME AS REQUIRED AT NIGHT.

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post #32 of 36 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 9:10 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Did that -- had them installed 2 weeks ago. I think their effectiveness is somewhat limited in heavy traffic, where it may not be possible to see the bottom half of vehicles.
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post #33 of 36 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 9:29 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
I have a HID low and high beam both on my LT. I WILL NOT ride with the HID high beam on in the daytime. I consider it rude from my ride point and I would consider it rude from an oncoming or leading vehicle stand point. The HID low is way bright enough in the daytime and with MotoLights, I am very conspicous.

JM2CW.
ya, What Steve said.... I love my HID low and high beams, but would never subject someone to the high beam during the day. I use the motolights all the time and I use the "pass flash" when I come up on cross traffic and driveways.

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post #34 of 36 Old Mar 25th, 2006, 9:11 am
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Angry high beams all the time: a view from the cage.

If you are riding with your high beams ahead or behind me, I just can't continue to allow them to shine in my eyes. If you are behind me I will move my head or my mirrors so the lights aren't in my field of vision. If you are ahead, I just look somewhere else. NOW I'M NOT WATCHING YOU! After a few minutes I forget you are there.

Sorry, but I can't see any justification for riding with high beams. You are actually less visible because I can't look at you.

I think the same logic applies to your friends riding with you: do any of you want your riding buddies shining their high beams into your eyes? Would an oncoming bike with high beams help you make it around that curve?

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post #35 of 36 Old Mar 25th, 2006, 9:23 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FridayBob
If you are riding with your high beams ahead or behind me, I just can't continue to allow them to shine in my eyes. If you are behind me I will move my head or my mirrors so the lights aren't in my field of vision. If you are ahead, I just look somewhere else. NOW I'M NOT WATCHING YOU! After a few minutes I forget you are there.

Sorry, but I can't see any justification for riding with high beams. You are actually less visible because I can't look at you.

I think the same logic applies to your friends riding with you: do any of you want your riding buddies shining their high beams into your eyes? Would an oncoming bike with high beams help you make it around that curve?
FridayBob
Thanks Bob -- and everyone else.

My original question is somewhat dated -- about 6 weeks old now. I stopped riding with the high beam on, oh... about 5 1/2 weeks ago! I understand now the implications of using the high beam during the day.

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post #36 of 36 Old Apr 12th, 2006, 6:17 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMarshal
Install a set of MotoLights and the triangle pattern will certainly catch the attention of oncoming traffic, and those in front.

Tim

Or think that you are a freight train! hehehehe

I agree, the triangle approach gets attention...
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