Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 40 Old May 1st, 2012, 12:05 pm Thread Starter
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Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

I like to find out if any of you have encountered shifting problems or specifically missed shifts from 1st to 2nd gear. I've owned 4 BMW's this being my forth (2012 GTL) and I've never had a missed shift problem before. This is driving me nuts. Can anyone on this forum tell me more about this and what can be done to correct it. Thanks!
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post #2 of 40 Old May 1st, 2012, 1:13 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Never missed a Shift on the GTL But I did a few times on my K1200LT till I started to "PreLoad" the Shifter. It became a habit on the LT that I still do on the GTL. It also makes the slow speed shifts more quiet.

Stevie Shreeve
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post #3 of 40 Old May 1st, 2012, 1:14 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

I have problems shifting to second when I am riding in stop and go traffic situations with my 99LT. I figured it was a rider error. I started using engine breaking more often and it helps to reduce this problem for me.Also highway riding at higher RPM's seems to help this. I also observe unhappy transmission when I am riding one up or with heavier loads. Riding solo at high RPM seems to be the happiest LT for me.

I am not sure if I have totally identified the issue but this is just my two cents.

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post #4 of 40 Old May 1st, 2012, 1:57 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

I was constantly missing 1-2 shifts (going into neutral) when I first got my LT. For a while, I tried to slow things down and be more deliberate; the problem got worse. Then I went in the other direction...like Steve describes...pre-loading the shifter, and just "kissing" it into 2nd. The problem went away immediately.

When I got my GTL, I approached it the same way and it works beatifully. I have missed probably three 1-2 shifts in the 6K I've put on it...in every instance it was when I got sloppy with my technique.

Give it some revs. Pre-load the shifter. Give it a quick "kiss" to upshift. If you do this, it will be smooth as silk and very reliable.
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post #5 of 40 Old May 1st, 2012, 3:13 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

+1 Pre-load

I didn't understand this at first, but once I got used to it, the change from 1st to 2nd became very smooth.

Dano
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post #6 of 40 Old May 1st, 2012, 4:06 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Thanks everyone for all your feedback. So I'll try the preloading method and see how it goes.
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post #7 of 40 Old May 1st, 2012, 6:01 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Hope I am not the only one. What is Pre-Load?

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post #8 of 40 Old May 1st, 2012, 6:24 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTFan
Hope I am not the only one. What is Pre-Load?
Well, first you need to buy a Langstrom 7/16" gangley wrench. Then you have to remove the fairing......just kidding.
Pre-load is a technique where you put a little upward pressure on the shift lever just before you make the gear change.

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post #9 of 40 Old May 1st, 2012, 8:41 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by kk610lt
Well, first you need to buy a Langstrom 7/16" gangley wrench. Then you have to remove the fairing.....
NOT !!!
Everyone knows it take a Chrome Reverse Throzzal Rod to complete "PreLoad"
But YES the Lower Fairing will have to come off.

Stevie Shreeve
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post #10 of 40 Old May 2nd, 2012, 9:23 am
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Every once in a while I will misss a 1-2 shift and it will catch me off guard. When I do this it is usually because I was lazy in the upshift. Almost as if I was back on a Harley type shift. Keep the shift positive with a little pre-load and I just flick the clutch lever never pull to the grip, well unless you are stopped......
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post #11 of 40 Old May 2nd, 2012, 12:04 pm
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Question Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

I've had a few false neutrals when going for second on the GTL, but way less than I had grown accustomed to with the LT. I am experiencing spontaneous downshifts from 4th to 3rd, usually as I am acccelerating after a turn. It seems to go to 4th fine then about 10 seconds later it pops back into 3rd. It's happened four or five times in the past month.

My first assumption was that I wasn't being manly enough with my shifting but it has happened after very firm upshifts no as well, so that doesn't seem to be the problem.

Anybody else seeing this?
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post #12 of 40 Old May 2nd, 2012, 2:51 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Friend of mine owns a K16GT. He suffered from a gear dropping out of 2nd back into neutral. He had to leave the bike at the dealer when he checked in to get the 1000 km service. Gearbox will be swapped for new.

Mine occasionally drops out of 5th back to 4th, but only if I shift too quick and not firm enough.

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post #13 of 40 Old May 2nd, 2012, 8:12 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

I have noticed this, usually when rapidly changing from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3 it has happened as well. This is only my second MC ever, first being the 08 RT, andI had the same issue with that bike. This does not occur all the time but taking off fast almost always and embarrassing, could just be my experience level!
J

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post #14 of 40 Old May 3rd, 2012, 12:39 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

I have also experienced the spontaneous down shift from 4th to 3rd for no apparent reason. This coupled with the sometimes missed shift from 1st to 2nd is really annoying. I'm hoping that if enough people complain to their dealers and have them report these continued problems there will be a fit for all of this. I went to my dealer yesterday for the most recent software update and for them to check the missed shift problem. As luck would have it on the way there the bike preformed flawlessly. During their testing the same and on the way back home, again, flawlessly. Go figure.
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post #15 of 40 Old May 3rd, 2012, 5:45 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

My GTL shifts predictably. If I am slack, the bike is not predictable. When I am on the shifts, the bike does it's job. But over all, and most important, is that exhaust bounce off concrete medians. Love the Remus note and that "hang on" feel!
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post #16 of 40 Old May 9th, 2012, 8:08 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Wondering if it's related to the shift linkage? My LT did that...missing shifts and/or dropping out of gear and I found the linkage was not adjusted correctly. Made a couple turns giving it more throw (or might have been less...don't remember) and all was fine.

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post #17 of 40 Old May 28th, 2012, 1:08 am
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

My current bike (a Honda) has a toe-heel shifter (which I love). In a week or so, I'll be changing from a cruiser to a GTL in about a week. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on a toe-heel shifter on the GTL and does anyone make one for this bike? I just like the idea of not scuffing my boots all up from the shifter more than any other real reason for the toe-heel shifter.

Steve - 2012 K 1600GTL


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post #18 of 40 Old May 28th, 2012, 6:23 am
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdawg
My current bike (a Honda) has a toe-heel shifter (which I love). In a week or so, I'll be changing from a cruiser to a GTL in about a week. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on a toe-heel shifter on the GTL and does anyone make one for this bike? I just like the idea of not scuffing my boots all up from the shifter more than any other real reason for the toe-heel shifter.
Have not heard of anyone making one for the K1600. The shifter has never scuffed up any of my boots. The ground contacting the outer edge of the toe of the boot in corners is an other story .

Stevie Shreeve
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post #19 of 40 Old May 28th, 2012, 11:01 am
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimE
I was constantly missing 1-2 shifts (going into neutral) when I first got my LT. For a while, I tried to slow things down and be more deliberate; the problem got worse. Then I went in the other direction...like Steve describes...pre-loading the shifter, and just "kissing" it into 2nd. The problem went away immediately.

When I got my GTL, I approached it the same way and it works beatifully. I have missed probably three 1-2 shifts in the 6K I've put on it...in every instance it was when I got sloppy with my technique.

Give it some revs. Pre-load the shifter. Give it a quick "kiss" to upshift. If you do this, it will be smooth as silk and very reliable.
I've had the same problem on my 2012 GTL. What does pre-loading the shifter mean?
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post #20 of 40 Old May 28th, 2012, 11:40 am
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissHotRod
I've had the same problem on my 2012 GTL. What does pre-loading the shifter mean?
From Post # 8 in this thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kk610lt
Pre-load is a technique where you put a little upward pressure on the shift lever just before you make the gear change.

Stevie Shreeve
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post #21 of 40 Old May 31st, 2012, 9:34 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

I was having a problem going from 1'st to 2'nd and dropping back to neutral. Slowed down, started engaging the clutch before I dropped my toe, that helped. Yesterday I adjusted the peg from full forward to full back and that helped quite a bit. I think I get a little more lift for the same foot movement now. Took it out and got it warmed up and did a few fast launches and did not have it drop back on me again. First bike I've owned with that adjustment on it.
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post #22 of 40 Old Jun 11th, 2012, 2:42 am
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louannesman
I've had a few false neutrals when going for second on the GTL, but way less than I had grown accustomed to with the LT. I am experiencing spontaneous downshifts from 4th to 3rd, usually as I am acccelerating after a turn. It seems to go to 4th fine then about 10 seconds later it pops back into 3rd. It's happened four or five times in the past month.

My first assumption was that I wasn't being manly enough with my shifting but it has happened after very firm upshifts no as well, so that doesn't seem to be the problem.

Anybody else seeing this?
I've had both problems too: I have had couple of false neutrals which I figured was a lazy shift but at least once while trying to get the heck moving fast was anything but lazy... I've also had numerous spontaneous downshifts from 4 to 3 and from 5 to 4, also after about 10 seconds but not necessarily around a turn (not sure about that though). Now I'm constantly paranoid about my gear position. I'm taking mine in for the first service tomorrow and have already mentioned this to the dealer. Hope they find or adjust or fix something I cannot duplicate the problem at will so I'm not sure if they will either. Fingers crossed!
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post #23 of 40 Old Jun 11th, 2012, 6:03 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Something I discovered was that you have to make sure your foot/toe is NOT touching the shifter. You would be surprised how easily the shifter will operate under the right throttle position especially when inadvertant downshifts are encountered.

Rick H.
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post #24 of 40 Old Jun 16th, 2012, 11:39 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Also had problems of landing in neutral instead of second when shifting from 1st to 2nd, and jumping back to neutral when trying to engage 2nd from neutral. I thought I was being lazy on the shift. After a couple thousand miles, I only have this happen neutral now, as I have learned to be more aggressive on the shift and preload the shift as well. In my opinion, BMW should have done a better job on transmission design. In addition, my GTL has always had a whining noise from about 60 miles/hr to 75. the noise is annoying, and is not from the motor or transmission, as the noise is there at that speed regardless of which gear I am in. This is also something that shouldn't be there but is. I am hoping it will subside as the bike wears in as I only have 2500 miles on it so far. A great bike, but definitely room for improvement.
Hard to believe they can put so much design into a bike and still have problems that make one lower their opinion of the bike.
regards
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post #25 of 40 Old Jun 18th, 2012, 9:06 am
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Augiesez
I've had both problems too: I have had couple of false neutrals which I figured was a lazy shift but at least once while trying to get the heck moving fast was anything but lazy... I've also had numerous spontaneous downshifts from 4 to 3 and from 5 to 4, also after about 10 seconds but not necessarily around a turn (not sure about that though). Now I'm constantly paranoid about my gear position. I'm taking mine in for the first service tomorrow and have already mentioned this to the dealer. Hope they find or adjust or fix something I cannot duplicate the problem at will so I'm not sure if they will either. Fingers crossed!
The mechanic looked my bike over and test rode it and came back with what I expected (no defect noted). He did say that the transmissions tend to be clunky through quite an extended run in of 6k to 12k miles but continue to improve over the miles. I'm only at about 1200 miles on mine now but I have noticed it begin to improve. I only had 1 N slip and 1 5-4 downshift this weekend. I have noticed that there is an extra little click at the top of each up-shift except for 5-6 and I now make sure I feel that second pop at the top.
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post #26 of 40 Old Jun 18th, 2012, 10:58 am
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Augiesez
The mechanic looked my bike over and test rode it and came back with what I expected (no defect noted). He did say that the transmissions tend to be clunky through quite an extended run in of 6k to 12k miles but continue to improve over the miles. I'm only at about 1200 miles on mine now but I have noticed it begin to improve. I only had 1 N slip and 1 5-4 downshift this weekend. I have noticed that there is an extra little click at the top of each up-shift except for 5-6 and I now make sure I feel that second pop at the top.

I noticed a little slipping at first, and some of the above mentioned problem, but after 6,000 miles none have happened in quite a while. Both of us (me and the bike) are getting better.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

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post #27 of 40 Old Jul 4th, 2012, 3:05 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

I am moving from a '99 R1100RT to the '12 K1600GTL and the shifting is very different..

I was basically completely unable to get it to stay in second gear until the dealer told me that you "must" hold the shift lever up (preload) as you let the clutch out.. He implied that the 1600's transmission is designed that way..

Once I did that I never had another problem.. though it did feel odd the first couple times I did it.. heh
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post #28 of 40 Old Jul 4th, 2012, 3:11 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

In 7,000 miles, that has not happened to me. I do pre-load the shifter ( put a little pressure on it before the shift) to get it to slip noiselessness from 1 to 2nd gear though.

This bike shifts almost by itself. Sometimes I feel like I could do it without the clutch.

Dano
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post #29 of 40 Old Jul 4th, 2012, 3:18 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Well when he told me that I had to wonder how much of it was due to the fact that I was riding the demo bike and it had been completely thrashed..

My RT would pop out of second gear sometimes, but in the ~60k miles I have put on it, its probably only done it 5 to 10 times.. (And I assume its driver error.. meaning I didn't shift it up all the way or was too quick on the throttle..etc.. )
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post #30 of 40 Old Jul 4th, 2012, 9:52 pm
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Talking Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Hey I have never had any problems shifting my Gtl at all. It sometimes clunks like most Bmws I have ever rode, but stays in gear. I just came back from a 300 mile trip through the Finger Lakes of NY region, and all I can say is "SWEET...."That bike is a Sweet ride!
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post #31 of 40 Old Dec 8th, 2012, 2:25 am
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by katnapinn
Have not heard of anyone making one for the K1600. The shifter has never scuffed up any of my boots. The ground contacting the outer edge of the toe of the boot in corners is an other story .
I picked the bike up in early June. I just passed 6,500mi on it. I still keep missing second gear a lot. Most of the time, I can catch second by only pulling the clutch in about 20% of the way. But I still forget, because I'm so used to pulling the clutch in all the way for the rest of the gears. This past Tuesday, while starting behind cars in normal traffic, it took four trys to get 2nd to stick at one intersection. I've had the bike to the dealer twice on this issue. The first time, they suggested I wasn't throwing the lever far enough and adjusted the lever down... no major change in performance. Today, they bled the clutch and said there was air in the line. On my test ride (about 40mi), it missed second 4 times. One time, I ran up to about 80 in second, third, and fourth... then as I decelerated from fourth, the bike downshifted to third without any input from me. This gear box is flakey and I'm gong back to the dealer again to complain.

Steve - 2012 K 1600GTL


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post #32 of 40 Old Dec 9th, 2012, 7:46 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

I made a video of the problem, you can see it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VKGY...ature=youtu.be

Steve - 2012 K 1600GTL


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post #33 of 40 Old Dec 12th, 2012, 7:58 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

After seeing the video, the dealer called to say they agree there is a problem and to bring the bike in.

Steve - 2012 K 1600GTL


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post #34 of 40 Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 4:20 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

BMW wanted the dealer to ride the bike for a few days to see if they could duplicate the problem. The first mechanic had no problems; the second one did. They are planning to tear it apart on Wednesday.

Steve - 2012 K 1600GTL


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post #35 of 40 Old Jan 11th, 2013, 5:50 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdawg
BMW wanted the dealer to ride the bike for a few days to see if they could duplicate the problem. The first mechanic had no problems; the second one did. They are planning to tear it apart on Wednesday.
BMW finally approved working on my bike. The dealer took out the gearbox cassette and found some tell-tale signs of shift dogs slipping out. They showed me the scrapes on the face of the gear and the fork where the fork is missing and scrapping. They're waiting for BMW to decide how to resolve it. The BMW rep came out to the dealer yesterday to see the problem and the video I made. I'm hoping to have the bike back by Thursday next week, because we're going to have great winter riding weather next weekend... temps at low 70's (God I love living in Southern California).

Steve - 2012 K 1600GTL


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post #36 of 40 Old Jan 18th, 2013, 11:50 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

I should have gotten the bike back this afternoon, but decided to cage it out of town instead. Regardless, BMW, decided to change out the entire gearbox and I'm really looking forward to testing it to see if this fixes the problem.

Steve - 2012 K 1600GTL


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post #37 of 40 Old Jan 19th, 2013, 5:43 am
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdawg
I should have gotten the bike back this afternoon, but decided to cage it out of town instead. Regardless, BMW, decided to change out the entire gearbox and I'm really looking forward to testing it to see if this fixes the problem.
Great work documenting the problem and working with your dealer...I hope this gets it sorted for you.
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post #38 of 40 Old Jan 26th, 2013, 3:20 pm
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimE
Great work documenting the problem and working with your dealer...I hope this gets it sorted for you.
Thanks...

I finally got the bike back today (it's been with BMW since Dec 15). BMW replaced the entire gearbox; apparently, the dealer isn't allowed to purchase individual parts for the gearbox. In this case, where it is a warranty repair, that's good for me. If it were out of warranty, I wouldn't be too happy about it.

Anyway getting to the results... The weather is wet today, but I got lucky with a break in the weather to pick the bike up. I took streets for the 15mi ride home so I could get some stop-n-go's in. The gearbox feels flawless. I can pull the clutch in all the way and did not need to preload or have partial engagement once. The shifts were solid and felt better than when the bike was new. I also did not hear the rattle in the gear box that I used to hear with the clutch pulled in. It looks like the weather will cooperate a little more tomorrow, so I'll try to get some around-town riding tomorrow as well.

Steve - 2012 K 1600GTL


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post #39 of 40 Old Feb 1st, 2013, 10:12 am
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Location: Yorba Linda, CA, USA
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

I just want to give you an update on my experience since the gearbox was exchanged. It is generally much better than it was. However, I've had the bike out 5 times now and it is still very occasionally missing 2nd on the way up. It has happened at least twice each on days 2 through 5 (I'm taking the bike out again today for a longer ride, as I have the day off). The technician showed me how it is supposed to work on a different model bike's transmission that was open and I have a theory on what the problem is. The shift dogs run down a grooved drum to select each gear. At the near end of the drum close to the lever, there is a sprocket that supports a roller that is spring loaded to remain in the sprocket once the shift is complete. So, when you shift, the drum and sprocket roll and the roller is moved to the next position on the sprocket to hold the selected gear. I think that the roller isn't clearing the second tooth (as you pass through neutral) of the sprocket teeth and rolling back to neutral. That basically means there isn't enough throw on the shift lever to always guarantee a complete shift to second. Since I usually hit the full shift lever range, I don't think I can make an adjust to overcome this. I believe there are fewer teeth on the sprocket (5) than there are gear positions (7). This might only be a problem on one sprochet position, which would explain the randomness of the problem I am experiencing. It could also be that there is enough variation in the tolerance of the sprocket during manufacturing that some bikes will experience this and others won't.

Steve - 2012 K 1600GTL


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Last edited by Bigdawg; Feb 1st, 2013 at 12:34 pm.
Bigdawg is offline  
post #40 of 40 Old Feb 19th, 2013, 11:56 am
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Marion, IA, USA
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Re: Shifting Problems 1st to 2nd

An update on my spontaneous gear changes. The dealer was unable to duplicate the problem, but adjusted the shift linkage assuming that was the problem. In the month and a half since I have had no shifting issues, but my riding has been limited what with this being winter in Iowa and all.

If this takes care of it, it's a simple fix. If not at least the problem is in the system now.
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