Rear shaft bearing failure - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 46 Old Jan 23rd, 2012, 2:31 pm Thread Starter
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Rear shaft bearing failure

It's probably a bit too early to say on this model but has anyone had the common shaft drive/wheel bearing problem that the LT, GS models had/have?
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post #2 of 46 Old Jan 23rd, 2012, 4:08 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Zero reported to date.

Not surprising -- the final drive design is substantially different from the previous generation drives, and BMW further beefed-up the K16 FD from the K12/K13 unit (per BMW's K16 intro materials).

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post #3 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2012, 4:33 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by earthman
It's probably a bit too early to say on this model but has anyone had the common shaft drive/wheel bearing problem that the LT, GS models had/have?
I'm sure this is a well meaning post but it really smacks of scaremongering!

Why not change the title of your post to 'Has anyone suffered Rear Shaft Failure'?

At least then it wont start a panic as soon as someone reads the forum.

The challenge with all the posts about RT and GS rear failures was blown out of all proportion, and I think most people now know that it's really only those with failures that posted on those threads. The 000's who had no problems were dwarfed by the 20 - 30 who did have problems.

Hope you find what you are looking for earthman - but a positive post start would be nice!

No offence intended.

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post #4 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2012, 6:17 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominatio
I'm sure this is a well meaning post but it really smacks of scaremongering!

Why not change the title of your post to 'Has anyone suffered Rear Shaft Failure'?

At least then it wont start a panic as soon as someone reads the forum.

The challenge with all the posts about RT and GS rear failures was blown out of all proportion, and I think most people now know that it's really only those with failures that posted on those threads. The 000's who had no problems were dwarfed by the 20 - 30 who did have problems.

Hope you find what you are looking for earthman - but a positive post start would be nice!

No offence intended.
Plus 1

I'll add that the K1600 is a "Machine" & like ALL Machine there "WILL" be failures. Hell my water pump went out at 6000 miles.
Did I get it fixed? YES
Did it piss me off ? YES
Will I keep the bike? HELL YES
Will something else brake on the K1600? Most likely
Will I keep fixing & Riding the bike? Definitely

Stevie Shreeve
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post #5 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2012, 8:10 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominatio
I'm sure this is a well meaning post but it really smacks of scaremongering!

Why not change the title of your post to 'Has anyone suffered Rear Shaft Failure'?

At least then it wont start a panic as soon as someone reads the forum.

The challenge with all the posts about RT and GS rear failures was blown out of all proportion, and I think most people now know that it's really only those with failures that posted on those threads. The 000's who had no problems were dwarfed by the 20 - 30 who did have problems.

Hope you find what you are looking for earthman - but a positive post start would be nice!

No offence intended.
OK, fair point, I would change the title, if I could, can't find an 'edit post' icon??

For those owners that did experience a failure, I bet they wouldn't say that it's blown out of proportion, sorry but I don't think that as a whole, BMW handled that issue very well.

If the shaft on this model is a whole new design, fingers crossed that they have got it right.
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post #6 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2012, 8:16 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Some excellant replies guys! I agree that the FD thing became viral when compared to other problems with other make bikes. Lord knows this thing went nuts but I never had a problem with my LT and my kid never had a problem with his RT. That said I can understand why there is some question out there in cyberland pertaining to the reliability of 1600 final drives. As has been said I rue the day when someone that owns a 1600 has the FD go out because it will most likely start an avalanche of I told you so's. By the time that one persons FD issue gets on the net it will sound like every person that owns a 1600 will have had a broken FD.

THINK POSITIVE!!!!! Rick
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post #7 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2012, 12:41 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric

As has been said I rue the day when someone that owns a 1600 has the FD go out because it will most likely start an avalanche of I told you so's. By the time that one persons FD issue gets on the net it will sound like every person that owns a 1600 will have had a broken FD.
????

"I told you so." ????? I don't understand!

Things break and that's reality! Of course it is a PITA for the person who owns it, but like the K1200LT it was probably less than 4%.

96 did not have a problem. It was a non issue.

So far, the K1600GTL has been quite reliable out of the gate. ~1,300 sold and so far a lot of mostly quiet....

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post #8 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2012, 3:09 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

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Originally Posted by DanDiver
Things break and that's reality!
Yes, you are right there but I've never heard of that major component going on a Jap shaft drive bike, unless the whole machine is near the end of it's life.

OK, I know it's just the bearing as opposed to the whole unit but even so, on something that's designed to take those kind of forces, it should be up to the job in the first place. It's like a Jaguar or any other rear wheel drive car having prop/diff failure, it's practically unheard of.
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post #9 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2012, 3:19 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by earthman
but I've never heard of that major component going on a Jap shaft drive bike, unless the whole machine is near the end of it's life..
You're kidding, right? Wing FD's have not proven to be failure-proof.

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post #10 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2012, 4:16 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
You're kidding, right? Wing FD's have not proven to be failure-proof.
Either have V-stars, Triumphs, VT1100's... blah, blah, BLAH!

Hell, even Captain Kirk had a warp drive failure on more than one occasion:

Spock: " Ahh, Mr. Scott, I understand youre having difficulty with the warp drive. How much time do you require for repair?"

Scotty: "Theres nothing wrong with the bloody thing!"


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post #11 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2012, 8:51 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Dan: If and when a 1600 has the final drive go out there WILL be a segment of motorcycling society that will jump all over it as proof positive that BMW has another runaway problem with final drives. Trust me, they are waiting in the wings for this to happen......
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post #12 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2012, 9:13 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric
Dan: If and when a 1600 has the final drive go out there WILL be a segment of motorcycling society that will jump all over it as proof positive that BMW has another runaway problem with final drives. Trust me, they are waiting in the wings for this to happen......
Rick
Naaaaaa we've grown up! More important things to be doing. Rather be the one riding than to be the one waiting in the wing...... Someday ?..

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post #13 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2012, 10:50 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

DITO; New Generation drive to boot
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post #14 of 46 Old Jan 26th, 2012, 9:40 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
You're kidding, right? Wing FD's have not proven to be failure-proof.
No, I'm not kidding.

I've owned Wings and other Jap shaft drives, no one in the club I know has suffered either.
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post #15 of 46 Old Jan 26th, 2012, 12:06 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by earthman
No, I'm not kidding.

I've owned Wings and other Jap shaft drives, no one in the club I know has suffered either.
Sounds like to me you need to stay with Jap bikes then. My K12LT was totaled at 80K with the original FD. If the Fd on my K16 ever goes out I'll fix it & keep on riding. Besides that I WILL NEVER even worry about "If it ever happens". I'll ride across town or across the country WITH OUT worry.

Stevie Shreeve
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post #16 of 46 Old Jan 26th, 2012, 5:22 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Cool...we're up to 16 posts on a problem that doesn't exist.

But it could happen...
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post #17 of 46 Old Jan 27th, 2012, 6:56 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by katnapinn
Sounds like to me you need to stay with Jap bikes then.
Steady on now, what kind of an attitude is that, I may want to come over to the dark side.
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post #18 of 46 Old Jan 27th, 2012, 6:59 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

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Originally Posted by JimE
Cool...we're up to 16 posts on a problem that doesn't exist.

But it could happen...
Good, let's hope there isn't a potential problem any more, I've not been around for a while so I were just asking.
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post #19 of 46 Old Jan 27th, 2012, 8:13 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

So, most of us have not had any FD problems, seems clear. What I enjoy most is passing all those secure FD's with my highly suspect one. Just love it.
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post #20 of 46 Old Jan 28th, 2012, 3:25 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

The only thing that gets to me is that question was asked by you in no less than 3 sub forums. I know that I had concerns when I bought the LT. No more.


Maybe the wing is a better fit for you.

I enjoy the bike and will continue.
I have one REALLY BIG CONCERN and that is WHEN I ride the new 1600 ( test ride) I have to get rid of some of the ladies in the stable. I am so sure that when I ride a 1600, it's a done deal for me.

So I must tread lightly when I go by the dealer.....
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post #21 of 46 Old Jan 28th, 2012, 6:54 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

JimE....that's a funny post except it's 19+.

Rick
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post #22 of 46 Old Jan 29th, 2012, 4:58 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimE
Cool...we're up to 16 posts on a problem that doesn't exist.

But it could happen...

I'm sorry, I can't stop laughing about this, no disrespect intended to anyone..

this reminds me of a thread on another forum called 'the thread about nothing' and it has like a zillion reads and replies

ahem....sorry for that commercial break, carry on
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post #23 of 46 Old Jan 29th, 2012, 8:00 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Dont' you think that we would have to wait a few years before such an issue would show up? I mean how many K1600s have 70K miles on them? So wait ten years and we'll be bitchen about something. Maybe it will be the water pump...

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post #24 of 46 Old Jan 29th, 2012, 8:36 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

I wasn't around in the early days of the K1200LT and I think my that 02 was the last year that the majority failed. How long did it take for the first ones to fail? Did that really have that many miles on them?

From reading this forum, my guess is that most occurred from the 02 on back and a few failed after that. I also think that the 02 was the year that most K1200LTs were sold.

The thread about nothing.... I like that! Reminds me of a Seinfeld episode.

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post #25 of 46 Old Jan 29th, 2012, 11:31 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

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Originally Posted by mwnahas
Dont' you think that we would have to wait a few years before such an issue would show up?
I'll go out on a limb and make a prediction...and you can take this to the bank because it is a lead pipe cinch.

Someone out there with a 1600 is going to have something fail when they hit 70K. They will post about it. Then we will have a 14 page thread where 45% of the posts will be from folks saying "it must be your imagination because mine didn't do that", 45% of the posts will be from folks asking for more details so they can rush into their dealer and tell them about the problem that their bike is about to have, and 10% of the posts will be from folks who will say that they used to have a GW and it never had that problem.

Sorry...I guess I'm getting to be a bit of a curmudgeon in my old age.

Oh yeah...25 posts now.

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post #26 of 46 Old Jan 29th, 2012, 4:38 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

JimE: Yeuuup! Just wait for the first FD to fail on a 1600.....GW riders will be on the 10:00 pm news talking about it and some 1600 owners will be on this very website contemplating selling thier bikes. Others will be running out in the streets in front of vehicles or jumping off bridges. Harly Davidson stock will shoot up by leaps and bounds! By gosh when the first 1600 FD goes it will be the end of the free world as we know it today!!! Oh Lordy, Lordy......Rick H.
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post #27 of 46 Old Jan 29th, 2012, 6:03 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

When the Schumer hits the fan and someone wants to dump their 1600
PM me we can work a deal out

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post #28 of 46 Old Jan 29th, 2012, 6:14 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by haughty
When the Schumer hits the fan and someone wants to dump their 1600
PM me we can work a deal out

Same here....
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post #29 of 46 Old Jan 30th, 2012, 12:14 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDiver
I wasn't around in the early days of the K1200LT and I think my that 02 was the last year that the majority failed. How long did it take for the first ones to fail? Did that really have that many miles on them?

From reading this forum, my guess is that most occurred from the 02 on back and a few failed after that. I also think that the 02 was the year that most K1200LTs were sold.

The thread about nothing.... I like that! Reminds me of a Seinfeld episode.
Well damn that's news to me!! When did THAT happen - I've had my '02 since new - if I had known at the time that there was a potential for final drive failure I wouldn't have bought it!!! I wonder if I can still return it...

Seriously - '02 with 97K and same final drive - when changing oil I get "the smudge" of metal dust mixed with oil but no large flakes and oil is typically the same color as when it went in....

But wait this is a 1600 FD non-failure thread. Moderators move as needed...

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post #30 of 46 Old Feb 2nd, 2012, 6:59 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

This is my only post on the K1600 forum. I wish those of you who own the bike could look back at the posts on this thread and realize how defensive you appear. You guys are edgy!!!!

Loren

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post #31 of 46 Old Feb 2nd, 2012, 7:45 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by wa1200lt
This is my only post on the K1600 forum. I wish those of you who own the bike could look back at the posts on this thread and realize how defensive you appear. You guys are edgy!!!!

Loren

Not edgy, but like defending a close buddy, just hate to see any slights to the character of this awesome new bike pass. For that matter, the LT is slanderised frequently, and till I got a GTL, thought there was none better than my trouble free 99 LT.

Just up here waiting for a thaw!
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post #32 of 46 Old Feb 2nd, 2012, 8:40 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by wa1200lt
This is my only post on the K1600 forum. I wish those of you who own the bike could look back at the posts on this thread and realize how defensive you appear. You guys are edgy!!!!

Loren
That's funny...I thought I was being defensive of the LT.
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post #33 of 46 Old Mar 19th, 2012, 11:41 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by wa1200lt
This is my only post on the K1600 forum. I wish those of you who own the bike could look back at the posts on this thread and realize how defensive you appear. You guys are edgy!!!!

Loren
Have to agree Loren. It's fine to point out that the K1600 is so far holding up well but I get so tired of the revisionist view that FD's weren't really a problem for BMW and it just 'went viral'.

Nothing changes the fact that the failure rate of FDs on LTs and GSs in the past was way out of line and BMW has never adequately addressed it for those owners. Sure, the occasional rider gets some relief on parts and labor but at the end of the day, there's a ton of bikes out there that are still at risk.

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post #34 of 46 Old Mar 19th, 2012, 1:11 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

In reality the LT was and still is a great motorcycle. It had no more problems and actually quite a few less than other big name motorcycles. The final drive issue is being looked into by the feds but that doesn't carry much water as far as I am concerned. They should have looked into a great many more issues taking places with other motorcycles but they didn't and even when they did not much happened. I guess that could be another thread in and of itself. I would bet every dollar I have that someone is not going to have to ask if a 1600 has a genuine rear drive failure because it will be broadcast on every TV and radio station in the country. Some people are probably just holding their breath waiting on it to happen so they can say I told you so. So I find it foolish to post a question regarding if a final drive has failed on one of these bikes before it actually takes place. It is as if one is painting the "devil on the wall". When I owned my 2005 LT it was the hay-day of FD failures for that model BMW. That said I never really worried about it. I did my maintenance on the bike, checked what could be checked and rode it. If you were observant to final drive fluid condition you could intercept a failure before it went catastrophic but sometimes not. I did experience the clutch slave cylinder failure but my dealer took care of it for me. So for my two cents worth this is all meaningless commentary on the 1600. What was the saying? Oh yeah....."Just ride it!"

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post #35 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 8:23 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

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The final drive issue is being looked into by the feds but that doesn't carry much water as far as I am concerned.
Really? Are you crazy,....I'd say that it's damn important, surely the feds wouldn't bother looking into it if it wasn't??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
So I find it foolish to post a question regarding if a final drive has failed on one of these bikes before it actually takes place. It is as if one is painting the "devil on the wall".
Well I'm sorry but you can't deny that several BMW models have had final drive failures, why should a new model be any different? It's not as though BMW have owned up and said that there is a problem,.....they need to re design the whole shaft in my opinion.


OK, so we are a few years on now, what's the general consensus, any owners care to share their experiences? Maybe just maybe this model does has a different shaft? one that doesn't suffer the same bearing failure has all the other models??

Has this model sold that well period? Here in the UK I've seen very few of them, I'm more likely to see RT's, GS's and all the 800cc models.
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post #36 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 8:42 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Earthman had a legitimate question and you paranoid K16 guys shut him down. When someone is looking to buy an LT and asks "the forum what to look for" all you former LT owners would have said check the FD. Well stop being so defensive and just say, so far all is good it is a great bike!!!
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post #37 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 11:40 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Not this sht again . . .

The final drive issue is well and truly sorted. With ten thousand new Beemers being sold every month, the FD failure rate has dropped off to nothing, just as it should be.

You still may hear of some of the older bikes (LT, RT, GS) having the occasional issue, but even those are pretty dmn rare these days.

With all of BMW's current bikes, there simply isn't a FD problem anymore.

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post #38 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 11:49 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
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Earthman had a legitimate question
Yes, he had a legitimate question, which was answered with the very first reply in this thread 3 years ago . . .

And yet he's still here asking the same dmn question. His post history shows that he's been asking that same dmn question for almost 10 years now . . .

So let's be absolutely clear: The LT, RT, and GS did have excessively high FD failure rates a decade ago. The part has been redesigned and the manufacturing/quality control has been sorted for many years now.

None of the current Beemers are exhibiting any final drive issues.

If you're looking at buying an older Beemer, then it's something to be aware of. If you're looking at any of the newer bikes, then it really just isn't.

And if all you want to do is troll, and ignore the many answers from satisfied owners that don't fit your predetermined narrative, then maybe you can go and do that somewhere else.

So can we finally just let this one go?
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'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
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'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #39 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 12:57 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

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Originally Posted by norton View Post
Earthman had a legitimate question and you paranoid K16 guys shut him down. When someone is looking to buy an LT and asks "the forum what to look for" all you former LT owners would have said check the FD. Well stop being so defensive and just say, so far all is good it is a great bike!!!
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Zero reported to date.
.

S T I L L !

Just Go
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post #40 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 3:13 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Well Said Meese.

This New "The Voice Of Reason" persona you have takin on is a little scary though.
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post #41 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 3:58 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

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Originally Posted by earthman View Post
Really? Are you crazy,....I'd say that it's damn important, surely the feds wouldn't bother looking into it if it wasn't??



Well I'm sorry but you can't deny that several BMW models have had final drive failures, why should a new model be any different? It's not as though BMW have owned up and said that there is a problem,.....they need to re design the whole shaft in my opinion.


OK, so we are a few years on now, what's the general consensus, any owners care to share their experiences? Maybe just maybe this model does has a different shaft? one that doesn't suffer the same bearing failure has all the other models??

Has this model sold that well period? Here in the UK I've seen very few of them, I'm more likely to see RT's, GS's and all the 800cc models.

Earthman are you sure you are on Earth? You go back almost 3 years to find a post I made pertaining to final drive failures on 1200 LT's that as we now know was true.....no action was taken by the Feds. Whatever sense your post made by attacking my comments issued close to three years ago completely eludes me. Since making those comments I think I have only heard of one or MAY BE two final drives that have gone south on K1600's.

Oh and BMW did do a re-design as you put it of the final drive on the K1600. Perhaps you should do some research or at least look at a BMW parts book. So what was the reason for you post???????????????????????????

See 'ya in three years Earthman!

Rick
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post #42 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 4:17 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

On the bright side my LT never got recalled for defective welds on the frame like some of the Wings. It also never blew a valve seat into the combustion chamber like some of the newer Harleys do. Bottom line: Ride it long enough and something will break. If my FD went out at 150,000 miles that isn't a failure, it's regular maintenance.


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post #43 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 5:12 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
Since making those comments I think I have only heard of one or MAY BE two final drives that have gone south on K1600's.
To be brutally honest, I know of two final drive issues on the K1600, out of thousands of bikes running millions of miles all over the world.

The first one was my own '12 GTL, where the seal leaked after riding 1,600 miles in 24 hours all over Utah, including some pretty serious elevation changes in some very short timeframes, and a couple of hours on some pretty nasty dirt roads. I do like to push design limits . . .

The bike remained rideable, although I took it directly to my dealer for inspection. I know for a fact this was the first K16 FD issue, as the factory hadn't yet made the seals available as a separate part and there were no seal installation tools available, because a dealer seal replacement had never been done before. There weren't even any spare FD's available in the system yet, so my FD was replaced with a part off a brand new GT that had just been uncrated.

I have heard of one other rider who had a FD seal leak, and the part was replaced without hassle.

If that's the worst that we've seen in the 4 years since the K16 was released, I'm OK with it . . .

Ken
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'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #44 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 5:12 pm
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by katnapinn View Post
This New "The Voice Of Reason" persona you have takin on is a little scary though.
I've always been The Voice of Reason. It's just that y'all are finally starting to listen to me . . .

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #45 of 46 Old Jan 8th, 2015, 8:59 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by norton View Post
Earthman had a legitimate question and you paranoid K16 guys shut him down. When someone is looking to buy an LT and asks "the forum what to look for" all you former LT owners would have said check the FD. Well stop being so defensive and just say, so far all is good it is a great bike!!!
THANK YOU!

You are dead right, there seems to be so many hostile people on here,....and then they wonder why I don't spend much time on here.

When the K16 first came out, there's no way that I could afford to buy one, I had known about the shaft failures on the other models,.....I only started this thread to see what the situation maybe in the future, hence me 'checking in' now.
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post #46 of 46 Old Jan 8th, 2015, 11:41 am
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Re: Rear shaft bearing failure

You've had your answer, several times over. And that answer hasn't changed since you first asked all those years ago.

The new bikes do not have any FD issues.

Some of the older bikes may still show signs of failure, but even that's much more unusual now, and we have a known fix for those bikes (proper setup of the bearing clearances) that solves the problem.

As for Japanese bikes, I have heard of driveshaft/FD failures on various Wings, FJRs, C14s, etc. Never as many as the earlier Beemers, to be sure, but it can happen.

So, if you really want to buy a BMW, then go for it. There are a lot of happy owners out there riding and enjoying these bikes. And if not, then there are many other fine choices out there, compete with their own model-based forums that will help you pick apart every aspect of said model.

So whatever you decide to ride, remember to have fun with it.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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