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post #1 of 42 Old Aug 15th, 2011, 9:12 pm Thread Starter
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MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Just got the September 2011 issue of Motorcycle Consumer News comparing Honda Gold Wing and BMW K1600GTL. According to MCN, 2012 Gold Wing beat the 2011 BMW K1600GTL in almost every category including engine, clutch and transmission, suspension, ergonomics, riding impression, and overall. There is then a one page article in which Vince Tidwell argues his K1200LT is, in several way, preferable to the K1600GTL.

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post #2 of 42 Old Aug 15th, 2011, 9:56 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcott360
Just got the September 2011 issue of Motorcycle Consumer News comparing Honda Gold Wing and BMW K1600GTL. According to MCN, 2012 Gold Wing beat the 2011 BMW K1600GTL in almost every category including engine, clutch and transmission, suspension, ergonomics, riding impression, and overall. There is then a one page article in which Vince Tidwell argues his K1200LT is, in several way, preferable to the K1600GTL.
Does it mention how much of the 'all new' 2012 GW is actually new? Just curious...

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post #3 of 42 Old Aug 15th, 2011, 11:17 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

I do not think you will fine much new on the 2012 Wing. The GTL is better or worse than the K1200LT and/or the GW depending on the criteria you set.

If you set power off the line or comfort, the GTL loses to the Gold Wing on both counts.

Handling in curves is about neck & neck between the LT and the GTL with the Gold Wing trailing.

Power at the mid-range and the high end is a clear GTL victory.

The silly winglets which are incredibly effective put the GTL ahead for driver air, but the LT and Wing Windscreens have nearly as much airflow, which is list on the GTL with the high dash for the GPS.

If there is a category for design and styling, the GTL loses hands down and the LT is arguably on top.

Driver / passenger and motor protection is another area where the LT shines, the Wing is close and it was not even an afterthought like the top case was on the GTL We all hope for something in the aftermarket before the first tip-over.

If you weight new technology heavily, the GTL is tops and the Wing and LT both flop, with their age showing.

Its all about the criteria you set and either bike could easily score highest overall.

But the GTL and the Gold Wing are really not in the same class, the LT is a discontinued model.

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post #4 of 42 Old Aug 16th, 2011, 1:08 am
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBil
If you set power off the line or comfort, the GTL loses to the Gold Wing on both counts.
You're probably right on the comfort. But, off the line? Let's see; 0-60 for the Wing somewhere in the range of 4.1 to 4.4s (different reported tests out there). GT/GTL? 2.9-3.2s.
Quote:
If there is a category for design and styling, the GTL loses hands down and the LT is arguably on top.
In your humble opinion.

I've never been attracted to a motorcycle that could be mistaken for a car from behind (Wing and LT) and the LT headlight and those huge plastic covered boat tiller bars are very unattractive to me. Just a matter of personal taste, I guess.

They're all 3 nice bikes and I agree that the GW does some of what it does a little better than anything out there. That's a nice armchair back there, no doubt. The K1600 is a whole different breed though and brings with it a slightly different segment of riders that struggle to picture themselves on a Wing or an LT. Heck, I've got a few more years in me so even that could eventually change; but for now, give my my 1600GT.

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post #5 of 42 Old Aug 16th, 2011, 5:53 am Thread Starter
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

I guess I was not surprised that Motorcycle Consumer News picked the 2012 Gold Wing over the K1600GTL. MCN has always loved the Gold WIng. In the past, MCN always picked the Wing over the K1200LT but, after riding both the Wing and LT, I bought a LT. Yes, the Wing's flat six is a wonderful motor and the Wing is a very refined, and very reliable tourer. Still, at the end of the day, my choice between the WIng and the K1600GTL would be the BMW.

Having talked to my Wing owning friends, I doubt few, if any, of "Wingers" trade their Wing for a K1600GTL for the issues and differences pointed out in the MCN article. On the other hand, I expect most of the K1600GTL's purchased will be by former BMW owners who can't bring themselves to ride a Wing.

Prior to my current R1200RT, I rode a K1200LT (purchased new) three years, many thousands of miles all over the United States. I really enjoyed the LT and had no mechanical issues (sometimes mentioned on this site). When I wanted a another touring bike, I decided on a motorcycle with the touring amenities but not the weight. I went with the R1200RT. For my riding and requirements, the R1200RT is the best touring motorcycle I've owned.

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post #6 of 42 Old Aug 16th, 2011, 10:56 am
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dceggert
Does it mention how much of the 'all new' 2012 GW is actually new? Just curious...
New paint job, less functional saddlebags (pulled off a Victory?), and even more confusing array of buttons than before. Did I miss anything?

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post #7 of 42 Old Aug 16th, 2011, 4:16 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Next month, MCN will publish its annual "Oranges vs. Bananas" comparison with two MORE things that really aren't in the same category.



(Yeah, yeah, I know the GTL is sorta' in the same category as the Wing...but the GT and the GTL are both sports first, touring second--the way I like it--and the Wing is, well, touring first and touring second)

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post #8 of 42 Old Aug 16th, 2011, 5:47 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Well because of the beating the K1600 took at MCN
I'm going to do you guys a solid and trade you my RT even. Yep that's correct you don't have to give me any cash with the bike.

Now I can end my kidney auction on ebay.
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post #9 of 42 Old Aug 16th, 2011, 6:03 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?




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post #10 of 42 Old Aug 16th, 2011, 6:38 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dceggert
Does it mention how much of the 'all new' 2012 GW is actually new? Just curious...
Yes, and that just makes things worse. The "old" Wing beats the new GTL.

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post #11 of 42 Old Aug 16th, 2011, 10:09 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

I recently rode an '08 Wing from Los Angeles to San Francisco and back. Nice, comfortable and somewhat boring. Did I say comfortable...and boring. I rode an '03 LT from Los Angeles to Spokane Washington and back. Nice, comfortable and very satisfying. Now I'm one of those old pharts (74) who is actually new to riding and I'll take the LT over the Wing any day. Haven't yet had the chance to test ride a GTL or GT but looking forward to it. Just my opinion.
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post #12 of 42 Old Aug 17th, 2011, 12:31 am
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

When I saw this thread, I misread the title as McWing.

Come to think of it, it's not that far off . . .

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post #13 of 42 Old Aug 17th, 2011, 10:14 am
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcott360
...MCN has always loved the Gold WIng. In the past, MCN always picked the Wing over the K1200LT but...

Where.....what.....huh............duh.............

MCN picked the LT OVER the Goldwing in the October 2004 issue.

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post #14 of 42 Old Aug 17th, 2011, 3:56 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbdane
You're probably right on the comfort. But, off the line? Let's see; 0-60 for the Wing somewhere in the range of 4.1 to 4.4s (different reported tests out there). GT/GTL? 2.9-3.2s.

I rarely go from 0 to 60. I doubt many do. I have done 0 to 10, 0 to 20 and 0 to 35, level and up a hill many times on the LT. Its never as easy as on a Wing, or for the matter, an HD. While the GTL's 1600 is much more powerful, it really shines farther down the power curve. It has much more power than the Wing later.

As to styling, I love the front end of the GTL. I absolutely hate the back. The rounded luggage looks like it was an afterthought, the gap to the top bag is obvious. The GTL is the mullet of bike design, and I expect that BMW will fix it next year.

It looks worse in motion, but really, does it not look like the luggage was an afterthought grafted on the GT? The MCN comparison is sill apples to oranges.

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post #15 of 42 Old Aug 17th, 2011, 4:31 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

The Slant/6 motor was chosen for its incredible smoothness and its low-rpm grunt, yet it can still be wrung out at the higher end.

It really is the best of the 'Wing and the LT motors in one package, powerful and easy to ride at slower speeds, and yet still sporty enough to play with at higher rpms.

In fact, that easily describes the whole bike . . .

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post #16 of 42 Old Aug 17th, 2011, 7:26 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

I don't pay too much attention to articles like this, there is too much subjectivity.

However, it seems fairly obvious to me.

If cranking out interstate two up is a good hunk of what you need a bike to do - then consider the Wing.

If you want a bike that is more entertaining to ride and maybe 80-90% of the Wing's comfort on slab....GT/GTL.
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post #17 of 42 Old Aug 17th, 2011, 11:41 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

+1 screw the mags. ride the bikes and pick which one suits you, oh, btw, honda wont let you test drive thiers, neither will kawasaki..... so really, are you going to say your bike isnt as good as a gtl after you plunk down an exhorbatant amount of cash for a biketime of test rides? no.

enjoy the lead wing and the connie's

only a gt/gtl rider will know why the other gt/gtl rider is smiling. to the rest, they will always wonder. On the wondering topic, do the honda riders cruise down the interstate wondering if they turned the coffee pot off when they left cuz thier ride is so boring?


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post #18 of 42 Old Aug 18th, 2011, 8:01 am
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Well I've had an 01 GW,an 05 LT and now the GTL. While I enjoyed all 3 they all have there plus or minus's, The GW is still thee Tourer, The LT splits the difference and the GTL is more sport orientated. I have yet to go on a long ride on the GTL but I can say the GW is more comfortable than the LT and GTL. I love the looks of the GTL,the motor a bit better than a GW and way better than the brick. Handling I think the GTL has it over the other 2. The adjustable windshields a plus over the GW. Electronics was a pain to install on the LT. I have everything I need on the GTL. So yes these are Tourers but I would have have 4 sub catagories broken down into pure Tourer(GW),next sportier tourer(LT),sport tourer(GTL) and runabout tourers(couldn't think of a better name) for Connies,FJRs,Sprints etc.
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post #19 of 42 Old Aug 19th, 2011, 6:54 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Wardenross has already beat me to the punch. MCN liked the LT on a few occasions, but overall they have found the GW "the" touring bike to have. In my estimation after owning Harley's, and Beemers the LT was "the" bike for me. No, the LT didn't do everything that I would have liked, but it did most everything I asked of it. I hated the early LT steering, but it was fixed in 05. From a personal side the GW could never suit MY tastes. I have spent time on them but I have always felt like I was driving the Queen Mary, not a motorcycle. No doubt if I spent a couple of years on a Wing I might get used to it, however the Wing is just too damn big for me. I also put little faith in goofy side-by-side comparisons in bikes such as the Wing and GTL. They are NOT similar bikes and anyone who thinks so is a little touched in the head and probably should not be riding anything with less than 3 wheels on the ground. I don't stay on the Interstate when riding nor do I stay on surface streets. I like to vary my route and after riding a GTL I think it will do better than my 05 LT. The LT was, in its time, the best bike going for me. The LT is gone so long live the GTL...the best bike for ME at this point and time.
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post #20 of 42 Old Aug 19th, 2011, 7:48 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

I think this whole thing is really crazy. I'm a former '04 GL owner, '09 LT owner and now a '12 GTL owner. I am the first to admit that bikes are very personal things but I agree with the majority of people on this point, the GL and LT are more competitors but the GTL is really not the same bike as either. I miss my LT for the sole reason that I mostly prefer a touring bike that can effectively handle the twisties. The LT was that and it would have been great if BMW had updated the LT design (electronics, engine, handling, etc.). However, that isn't to say that I don't like my GTL, I do. It just would have been nice to see the next evolution of the LT. In any event, I find it very unfortunate that MCN effectively says they believe the LT is a better bike than the GTL (they must say that because in '04 they say they preferred the LT to the GL and riding/handling of the '12 GL is the same). It just brings into question their credibility.

My two cents.
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post #21 of 42 Old Aug 20th, 2011, 4:18 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

IMO --- The Wing is a touring bike, The 1600 a sports touring bike.

Pretty hard to compare the two with the same criteria

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post #22 of 42 Old Aug 20th, 2011, 9:33 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

I have not seen the article but a couple thoughts come to mind.
Also I have only demo the GTL 6 for 40 minutes one Saturday morning. I have an '85 GoldWing with 34K miles and the LT in my dreams from '07 until I finally picked up this one last year. In both cases they were unique. The 85 Limited Edition was EFI and all digital instrumentation. And had been improved upon all its predecessors. The LT also is an accomplish pinnacle of 10 or 11 years of getting better. Both reek of luxury and comfort. And the total package is just that a full package. Or think of buying a six - pack of beer with one missing. The fairing, the trunk and side cases are all integral part.
The trunk on my GW has hairline cracks around the hinges,latches and where it is bolted on the inside and the lip edges. I refuse to remove the trunk to ride it plus that tail light all across is very visible. My focus is not speed and neither is touring. A cruise ship is not a speed boat neither is a reconnaissance plane a F-16.
So the GW is not an LT and the GTL is not one either.
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post #23 of 42 Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 1:26 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

I considered a GTL and test rode one. With the exception of the styling, I liked everything about the bike. The only reason I didn't buy one was I couldn't pass up the opportunity to buy an '09 LT with 4K miles for $10,000 less.
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post #24 of 42 Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 2:57 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

How was the wing in the wheelie comparison?
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post #25 of 42 Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 4:33 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

If I were going to get on the interstate form the west coast to the east coast, tow a trailer, and enough stuff to last a 30 day trip - Id have a GW. If my intentions are to travel long distances but find the roads that are squiggly lines on a map Ill go with the K1600. If my primary interest is looking good and sounding good a Harley takes first place.

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post #26 of 42 Old Oct 24th, 2012, 11:49 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorchilla
If I were going to get on the interstate form the west coast to the east coast, tow a trailer, and enough stuff to last a 30 day trip - Id have a GW. If my intentions are to travel long distances but find the roads that are squiggly lines on a map Ill go with the K1600. If my primary interest is looking good and sounding good a Harley takes first place.
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post #27 of 42 Old Oct 25th, 2012, 3:44 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Alas your garage is too small for 3 bikes...! :-)
Nor do I have enough $ to support 3 bikes.

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post #28 of 42 Old Oct 26th, 2012, 1:21 am
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

None of our local LT folks who've tested the 6 want one. Pillions criticize rear accomodations, considering them poor by comparison to the LT.
Better choice for solo though if you can get by its looks- I think it verges on seriously ugly and unfinished looking next to an LT and some of the older models. Colors are also muted, dull and boring but so are many of the other current models. What's with all this matte gray and black stuff and faded reds and blues, etc etc,
One of the guys did buy a very sweet 32 ft boat (instead?)...
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post #29 of 42 Old Oct 27th, 2012, 2:19 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesSnyder
How was the wing in the wheelie comparison?
You tell me.



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post #30 of 42 Old May 5th, 2013, 2:06 am
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Wing riders I know are into car tires, pulling trailers, anti performance mods,
mounting flag poles and teddy bears. Many have never driven anything else
and seem to have one foot in the grave. They really just should be driving
A motor home.

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post #31 of 42 Old May 5th, 2013, 6:40 am
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HornHonker
Wing riders I know are into car tires, pulling trailers, anti performance mods,
mounting flag poles and teddy bears. Many have never driven anything else
and seem to have one foot in the grave. They really just should be driving
A motor home.
Agree 100%. Back in 2005 when I was looking for a good touring bike. (Rode a Honda 750 ACE) I looked at a few Goldwings. My problem was every time I sat on one I would age 20 year.
I say a few used LT's at the dealer & took Mama down to see them. We rode one home that day & I've never look at the wings again.

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post #32 of 42 Old May 5th, 2013, 7:20 am
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

I have told my wife I will never be old enough to buy a Goldwing.

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post #33 of 42 Old May 5th, 2013, 9:16 am
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBil
I do not think you will fine much new on the 2012 Wing. The GTL is better or worse than the K1200LT and/or the GW depending on the criteria you set.

If you set power off the line or comfort, the GTL loses to the Gold Wing on both counts.

Handling in curves is about neck & neck between the LT and the GTL with the Gold Wing trailing.

Power at the mid-range and the high end is a clear GTL victory.

The silly winglets which are incredibly effective put the GTL ahead for driver air, but the LT and Wing Windscreens have nearly as much airflow, which is list on the GTL with the high dash for the GPS.

If there is a category for design and styling, the GTL loses hands down and the LT is arguably on top.

Driver / passenger and motor protection is another area where the LT shines, the Wing is close and it was not even an afterthought like the top case was on the GTL We all hope for something in the aftermarket before the first tip-over.

If you weight new technology heavily, the GTL is tops and the Wing and LT both flop, with their age showing.

Its all about the criteria you set and either bike could easily score highest overall.

But the GTL and the Gold Wing are really not in the same class, the LT is a discontinued model.

47+ Yrs Daily Motorcycle Street riding for Therapy

2012 Victory Cross Country Tour
2007 Black Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom - Sold
2007 Red Moto Guzzi Norge 1200 - Sold
2005 LT Dark Graphite - (Sold)
2005 PearlBlue FJR1300 (Sold)
3 BMW's, 8 HD baggers, 3 Goldwings & 860K + miles later
*Ridin steady since 1973
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool. Voltaire.

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post #34 of 42 Old May 11th, 2013, 9:52 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

All my wing friends have come over to the dark side. As one of them so eloquently put it, riding a wing reminds me of booster juice, depends and false teeth in a glass jar...... and I am not there quite yet.
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post #35 of 42 Old May 13th, 2013, 6:01 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronk1200lt
All my wing friends have come over to the dark side. As one of them so eloquently put it, riding a wing reminds me of booster juice, depends and false teeth in a glass jar...... and I am not there quite yet.
Speaking of dark side a great many wing drivers here ride on car tires.

Really dumb in my mind.

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post #36 of 42 Old May 13th, 2013, 7:18 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HornHonker
Speaking of dark side a great many wing drivers here ride on car tires.

Really dumb in my mind.
Well, if you only ride in a straight line...

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post #37 of 42 Old May 16th, 2013, 7:56 am
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

If you want a large, comfy rolling living room couch, head for the Honda dealer and get the GW.

If you want a thrilling, performance touring bike, then head for the BMW dealer and order the K1600 bike. Comes in two flavors.
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post #38 of 42 Old May 27th, 2013, 8:41 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
Well, if you only ride in a straight line...
I ride a LT and if it would work I would try a car tire on it. Check out the darkside forums and you will see that they not ride the twisties some of us on BMW's would be hard pressed to keep up with them. So far there has not been anything noted on a car tire failing. For those of us who haven't tried a car tire we only have opinions and no experience.

Marty Blok
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post #39 of 42 Old May 27th, 2013, 9:17 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyBlok
I ride a LT and if it would work I would try a car tire on it. Check out the darkside forums and you will see that they not ride the twisties some of us on BMW's would be hard pressed to keep up with them. So far there has not been anything noted on a car tire failing. For those of us who haven't tried a car tire we only have opinions and no experience.
Well, I've never smoked two packs a day either, so I guess I can't say smoking is bad as I have no experience.

And I've never jumped out of an airplane without a parachute so I guess I can't say that is a dumb idea either as I have no experience.

When the people who know tires and motorcycles the best (the engineers who design car tires, motorcycle tires and motorcycles) all say this is a dumb idea, there is just a slight chance that this really is a dumb idea.

As with many things in life, the issue isn't what works in normal situations, but what happens in the abnormal. Most bike tires have much stiffer sidewalks than car tires so that the tire will provide some support in case of rapid air loss. What happens to a bike with a car tire when it blows out? And I suspect your insurance company will look askew at you if they find a care tire on your bike after an accident? Do you really want to risk voiding your policy when you need it most?

Just because something works in normal conditions, doesn't mean it is a good idea.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
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post #40 of 42 Old May 29th, 2013, 12:00 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

I don't know much about car tires on motorcycles but I DO know a lot about insurance and will say that you won't void your policy by running a car tire.

Greg
2011 R1200RT (sold)
2012 K1600GTL
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post #41 of 42 Old Jun 4th, 2013, 1:01 pm
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post #42 of 42 Old Jun 4th, 2013, 8:36 pm
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Re: MCN-Wing beats K1600GTL?

I read the original article and quite frankly, I've never used an article like that to determine what bike I wanted to ride.

About 10 years ago, without reading a review, or reading any bike forums, I was in the market for a long distance cruiser. HD made it difficult to test ride so I never rode the Ultra Classic, Honda made it quite easy and I took out a Gold Wing for about an hour. 30 minutes into the ride, I felt like I was on a lounge chair. My next demo was the K1200LT and after about 10 minutes the decision was made.

Over the years, I made a few changes to the 02 K1200LT and wished for a few things that were not possible, but continued to love the ride. I liked the looks of the bike too.

When the K1600GTL was announced, it appeared to be exactly what I wanted the K1200LT to be had I had a magic wand. It took about 1,000 miles to get comfortable and now after almost 2 years and 12,000 miles, I know I made the right decision, for me.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

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