Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 74 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 11:23 am Thread Starter
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Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

A live chat was conducted on the BMW Motorrad Facebook page yesterday and you can see the chain of questions/answers here:

http://apps.facebook.com/bmwquestion...echatos&ref=mf


My question I pre-submitted:
The K1600 GTL appears to be a model blended from the current GT and LT models. Are there plans for a true replacement for the K1200LT or is the K1600GTL BMW's Flagship Luxury Touring model?
08.10.2010 18:02:56
Oliver Schmitt Hi Scott. The K 1600 GTL is indeed BMW Motorrad's new flagship touring model. It combines space and comfort with extensive equipment and all this in combination with much less weight and more riding agility and dynamics than the K 1200 LT. And all this with a moderate fuel consumption. So it perfectly represents what BMW Motorrad stands for in the 21st century.

Scott

In the garage:
'12 K1600 GTL (took delivery 5/25)
'12 Ducati Monster EVO 1100
'08 Big Dog Pitbull
'79 Honda CX 500 Deluxe (restored)

Past:
'09 BMW R1200R
'09 BMW K1200 LT
'08 Victory Vision
'06 Yamaha FJR1300
'03 BMW K1200 LT
'02 Gold Wing 1800
'98 Yamaha Roadstar
'96 GoldWing 1500
'79 Honda CX500
'77 GoldWing 1000


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post #2 of 74 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 11:26 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

He couldn't have just said "No"????


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post #3 of 74 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 11:39 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by bibleman
He couldn't have just said "No"????

Based on other parts of the discussion, the Honda Gold Wing is apparently the replacement for the BMW LT. BMW does not recognize the need for an LT replacment in the 21st Century.

Duane
Mag Black 2006 LT

Three loves - motorcycles, good wine, and contrabassoon...none of which mix. Engineer by day to pay for them all.
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post #4 of 74 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 12:02 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane_in_Florida
Based on other parts of the discussion, the Honda Gold Wing is apparently the replacement for the BMW LT. BMW does not recognize the need for an LT replacment in the 21st Century.
Duane, while I did chuckle at your comment, I'm curious as to what you feel is missing from the GTL as a replacement for the LT?

Scott

In the garage:
'12 K1600 GTL (took delivery 5/25)
'12 Ducati Monster EVO 1100
'08 Big Dog Pitbull
'79 Honda CX 500 Deluxe (restored)

Past:
'09 BMW R1200R
'09 BMW K1200 LT
'08 Victory Vision
'06 Yamaha FJR1300
'03 BMW K1200 LT
'02 Gold Wing 1800
'98 Yamaha Roadstar
'96 GoldWing 1500
'79 Honda CX500
'77 GoldWing 1000


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post #5 of 74 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 3:26 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Take it from me, as a former GL1800 owner, Duane, after the first 5,000 miles or so, you'll be sorely disappointed in the Gold Wing's suspension, especially in dramatic contrast to that of BWW's with ESA.
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post #6 of 74 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 7:34 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadSurfer
you'll be sorely disappointed in the Gold Wing's suspension, especially in dramatic contrast to that of BWW's with ESA.
I've heard that you can upgrade the 'Wing's suspension using Traxxion/Progressive/RaceTech components and get a much superior ride, in the same way that an LT benefits from a full Öhlins upgrade.

But you're still riding a 900-lb (or 850-lb) pig of a bike . . .

Ken
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post #7 of 74 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 7:35 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by bibleman
He couldn't have just said "No"????
That was Marketing speak for "No, but here's why you should spend all your money with us anyway."

Ken
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'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
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BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #8 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 7:40 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

I did the full Traxxion treatment on my '04 Wing and, although it did provide more steering precision and control, in the end it did not make the suspension any more compliant, even after I went back to the installer and had him swap out the original Traxxion rear shock for a slightly more forgiving one.

On our poor Canadian roads, and the sometimes equally deteriorated ones in northern New England where I ride very frequently, I need something equivalent to the "Comfort" setting that BMW's ESA provides. Unable to get it on either my Wing or my '05 ST1300 (after also installing supposedly superior aftermarket springs on the latter), I eventually simply made the move to my current ride, an '08 K1200GT. The suspension is incomparable and undoubtedly the best I have ever experienced on any of the 15 bikes I've owned over the past 35 years.

Unfortunately, for my 63-year old knees, the K1200GT's ergonomics can be challenging. Hence my great interest in the K1600GLT. I'm hoping it will privide the best of both worlds (and, as an added bonus, allow me to remove the trunk -- a cosmetically regrettable but sometimes practically necessary addition -- whenever I ride solo).
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post #9 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 7:59 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBreeze
Duane, while I did chuckle at your comment, I'm curious as to what you feel is missing from the GTL as a replacement for the LT?
When the current LT came out, I wanted one badly...and even test rode one back in 1999. It took me 7 years til I was in a financial position to actually purchase one. In my opinion the motorcycle was the most beautiful thing ever on two wheels and the handling at anything above than parking lot speed was amazing for a large bike. Everything was integrated and appeared to be well thought out...included integrated luggage and lines, reverse gear, fully functional stereo, great fallover protection among other things. While the GTL adds a bunch of electronic features that I would love to have on my current LT, it is step backwards from the LT in terms of the things I listed above. A month ago when we were seeing the spy shots of the GTL with the topcase and rear design, we were all universally saying "that just a test mule...BMW surely won't put that on the final version" We were obviously wrong. The GTL looks like it was designed from both ends, and the people working on the back weren't allowed to talk to the people working on the front (BMW, this has always been one of my gripes about the GL1800).

No, I do not believe that the Gold Wing is a replacement for the LT. But I also don't think the GTL is either. I was basically just pointing out the BMW feels the same way. I think a lot of us are just a bit disappointed that they decided to add yet one more sport touring bike to the fleet, instead of something that is a true luxury touring machine.

And to respond to another comment, I do not really need reverse, electric center stand, rear speakers, or integrated luggage on a motorcycle. I did not have these things on my last motorcycle. I also paid roughly $2500 for it new off the showroom floor. I just expect a bit more for ten times as much money.

Duane
Mag Black 2006 LT

Three loves - motorcycles, good wine, and contrabassoon...none of which mix. Engineer by day to pay for them all.
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post #10 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 8:50 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Hmm. 1600 GTL vs LT. Hard to know where to start. Space for rider and passenger. Luggage capacity. Design (or lets say the GTL has some nice features but the touring features look like they were just slapped on the GT as an afterthought. And nose on, its new, but the light is kind of ugly. But individual aesthetic issues aside, it seems to have less space, less capacity and less touring capability that the LT.

There are certainly a lot of benefits to the GTL, like the bigger engine (assuming it works out the way they say) and a really nice electronics package. I suppose its time for us all to buy a new GPS anyway.

wild bil
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post #11 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 9:00 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

I'm with Duane on this. My history with the LT mirrors his almost exactly. As does my disappointment now. Also, I now note that BMW haven't pitched it as the new LT, rather a competitor for the Pan-European....AT LT MONEY! Come on.

Kevin.
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post #12 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 9:11 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBreeze
A live chat was conducted on the BMW Motorrad Facebook page yesterday and you can see the chain of questions/answers here:

http://apps.facebook.com/bmwquestion...echatos&ref=mf
For the poor sods who haven't given their lives to Mark Zuckerberg, would you be so kind to copy/paste that list here?
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post #13 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 9:48 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Of course he will say that. He´s not going to tell us to wait another two years until a "new and improved" GTLT is launched, is he ?.

Sell as many as they can right now and then modify the 1600 AFTER Honda have shown their cards with the GW.

That´s my story and I´m sticking to it !.
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post #14 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 10:12 am Thread Starter
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfMan
For the poor sods who haven't given their lives to Mark Zuckerberg, would you be so kind to copy/paste that list here?
It won't be pretty, but here are the posts - there aren't that many, and you will need to read from bottom to top.


Oliver Schmitt Good Bye to everyone.
19.10.2010 19:05:53
Tell me about seat height options on the GTL...
19.10.2010 19:01:44
Oliver Schmitt Standard seat height (rider) is ca. 29 inches with a no cost option of ca. 31 inches.
19.10.2010 19:04:50
I live in Denver Colorado. I love my K1200 LT and have put thousands of miles on it touring across the US. With the heated seats, hand grips and electric vest I seldom get cold - with the notable exception of my feet. Have you considered implementing a system that can redirect engine heat to the drivers feet like that found on some other bikes?
08.10.2010 19:32:23
Oliver Schmitt Hi Lee. This is a good comment. Sorry but in the current weight and space package there has been no space for a foot heating device. On what other bikes except the Golwing have you seen that? This might speed up our decision process
19.10.2010 19:02:01
Oliver Schmitt Hello everybody. I am afraid time is running out. Thanks for keeping me busy. One last question - please now. Hope to see a lot of you on the road.
19.10.2010 19:01:02
Invite: if you fly into Chicago a few days before the USA National BMW rally, we'd love to have you join us for the 800 mile drive to get to the rally??? We'll show you some of our beautiful mid-west and eastern states! I'll be the one riding one of your beautiful new 6-cylinder creations! Thank YOU!
19.10.2010 18:56:34
Oliver Schmitt Thanks Dan. I will have a look into my schedule. I think I don't want to miss this opportunity for another long trip and thanks for the compliment on my baby.
19.10.2010 18:59:36
Hi Olivier I have a question regarding the future of K1300GT in respect to the launch of new K1600GT model?
19.10.2010 18:51:40
Oliver Schmitt Hi Rafal, the K 1600 GT will replace the K 1300 GT which will be discontinued during the year 2011.
19.10.2010 18:56:22
Do you see this bike competing with the Honda ST1300 or Goldwing?
08.10.2010 18:22:12
Oliver Schmitt Hello Richard. In fact it is both: We see the K 1600 GT as a competitor to the Honda STX (Pan European) because of its comfort, equipment and wind-weather protection. The K 1600 GTL is an interesting alternative for Goldwing owners who had no other six-cylinder engine to chose from until now. For the owners of both Honda bikes, BMW Motorrad offers a very attractive state-of-the-art standard and optional equipment and a fantastic riding experience that you simply have to explore for yourself.
19.10.2010 18:54:30
Hi, what are the biggest diffecence from GT and GTL
19.10.2010 18:18:03
Oliver Schmitt Hi Riccardo. The differences between GT and GTL are bigger than you can see at first sight. It is not only chrome and additional equipment, but different ergonomics including relocated footrests, shift linkage and handlebar, rear-set topcase. It is also a more comfortable rear damper presetting and slightly muted exhaust sound that sets the GTL apart.
19.10.2010 18:49:04
Can you talk about the removable navigation device? Is that included in base price, an option package? Also, i assume the device is "lockable" into the dashboard. What other parts of the dashboard have "color" screens?
19.10.2010 18:30:12
Oliver Schmitt The navigation device is an extra (accessory). When mounted it is protected from theft by the windshield. The windshield automatically takes its lowest position when the ignition is turned off and resumes its original position with ignition on. The dashboard has a color display for audio and onboard computer operations. For more information visit our website |(www.bmw-motorrad.com/6cyli nder).
19.10.2010 18:45:55
When will I be able to access the specs for the K1600 models?
08.10.2010 18:00:43
Oliver Schmitt Hi Rush. Specs will be available soon via Internet or in the brochure available at your dealership, timing depending on your country.
19.10.2010 18:40:24
The K1600 GTL appears to be a model blended from the current GT and LT models. Are there plans for a true replacement for the K1200LT or is the K1600GTL BMW's Flagship Luxury Touring model?
08.10.2010 18:02:56
Oliver Schmitt Hi Scott. The K 1600 GTL is indeed BMW Motorrad's new flagship touring model. It combines space and comfort with extensive equipment and all this in combination with much less weight and more riding agility and dynamics than the K 1200 LT. And all this with a moderate fuel consumption. So it perfectly represents what BMW Motorrad stands for in the 21st century.
19.10.2010 18:39:14
why no reverse gear?
10.10.2010 21:00:55
Oliver Schmitt This is due to the very slim and lightweight package of the K 1600 models. Please note that the bike is about 110 pounds lighter than a K 1200 LT and has much better handling.
19.10.2010 18:37:30
Dear Mr. Schmitt,

in the nearer future, will BMW Motorrad offer a more sporty motorbike with this awesome six cylinder machine? Perhaps a kind of K 1600 S/R? The engine would look terrific in a powerful naked bike!

Thanks for your answer.
Sebastian Becker
19.10.2010 18:21:47
Greetings. I'm a current 2005LT owner. do you have a price range and availablitly date yet? thanks, dale
19.10.2010 18:06:05
Oliver Schmitt Hello everybody. Welcome to our Q&A session. Looking forward to an interesting discussion. Just to introduce myself: As product manager I am responsible for the interface between motorcycle developement and marketing (which means to ensure that customer needs are met).
19.10.2010 17:54:54
Oliver Schmitt LIVE-CHAT with K 1600 Product Manager Oliver Schmitt / 19.10 from 17:00 to 18:00 CEST (Berlin Time)

Scott

In the garage:
'12 K1600 GTL (took delivery 5/25)
'12 Ducati Monster EVO 1100
'08 Big Dog Pitbull
'79 Honda CX 500 Deluxe (restored)

Past:
'09 BMW R1200R
'09 BMW K1200 LT
'08 Victory Vision
'06 Yamaha FJR1300
'03 BMW K1200 LT
'02 Gold Wing 1800
'98 Yamaha Roadstar
'96 GoldWing 1500
'79 Honda CX500
'77 GoldWing 1000


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post #15 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 5:50 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

1. Pissed that I had to "let" BMW see my F***book stuff to see the comments
2. Pissed that I didn't go all the way through the post here first to see that I didn't have to..
3. Pissed that I wasted my time reading very little decent info, other than "buy my baby"

4. Happy to know that I will be hanging onto my LT for many years to come...

thanks BMW

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post #16 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 7:55 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
That was Marketing speak for "No, but here's why you should spend all your money with us anyway."
I think the explanation goes just a tad deeper than that.

It's obvious that the old LT was built to be an American Interstate eater. Ultimately, not only does that equate to design compromises, it it also effectively limits it's appeal.

Honda can have the go straight and steady business as far as I'm concerned. I think BMW made the right call by establishing their own distinctive niche in the touring bike category.
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post #17 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 8:08 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

What I'm reading is the GTL is the replacement for the LT, the GT replaces the 1300GT, no more LTs or GTs(1300 variety). So if you want a new, top of the line touring bike from BMW, you've got your choice of the K1600 GTL or, next in line will be the R1200RT. That's about it as I see it. After they gain some sales experience with the GTL and GT perhaps, in a few (read 4 or 5) years we may see some add-ons from the factory like an electric center stand. Probably never a reverse gear (no room). Maybe a decent-looking top case. Of course in a couple years we'll have a flock of after-market add-ons, some of which will be absolute necessities (once we realize how important they are). So plan on spending big bucks if you want to play BMW for the next few years.
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post #18 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 8:16 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by judgebill
So if you want a new, top of the line touring bike from BMW, you've got your choice of the K1600 GTL or, next in line will be the R1200RT.
Exactly -- My plan: I'm going to test drive a GTL. If I like it, I'll buy it. If I don't like it, I'll by a 2011 or 2012 R12RT to replace my 2009 R12RT. Simple.

Mark Neblett
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post #19 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 9:12 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Executive Summary:
If you think the LT is The Ultimate Luxury Tourer and everything else just plain sucks, then you might as well just skip this post. But if you're actually interested in a real comparison using the facts that we do know, along with a few educated guesses from someone who's done 130K miles on LTs, and 150K miles on GTs, then read on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBil
it seems to have less space, less capacity and less touring capability that the LT.
OK, I keep seeing these themes repeated here from the old guard LT riders.

The problem is, they're only assumptions based on nothing more than a few glossy photos. And they're just plain incorrect.

Let's look at the numbers, shall we?

Less Space
Wheelbase on the K12LT is 1632 mm, and wheelbase on the K16GTL is 1618 mm. That's less than half an inch of difference. My 6 foot, 34-inch-inseam frame fits just fine on the K12GT which is almost 2" shorter than the K16. And with the peg extenders on my K12GT I actually have more leg room than I do on the K12LT, and still way more cornering clearance (along with a chassis and motor that can actually make good use of that extra clearance).

I'll give you that the LT has awesome passenger accommodations. And that the K12GT gives less passenger space and a smaller seat. But both of those have been addressed on the GTL. That rear seat looks an awful lot like the LT's rear seat, and one of the reasons the GTL trunk looks pushed further back is to allow for more spacious passenger accommodations.

So, until we can actually sit on a GTL, there's simply no basis for the claim that it's "less spacious".

Less Capacity
This one is just flat wrong.

My K12GT has slightly larger saddlebags than the LT, and the 49L trunk is almost half again as big inside as the LT's trunk. As an example, the LT's trunk will fit two full-face helmets, but only if you place them vertically, chin up and neck rolls together. Whereas the 49L trunk swallows two full-face helmets placed neck-down flat, and still has room for a decent jacket or other goodies.

And that doesn't even cover the LT's obsolete CD changer that takes up half of one saddlebag . . .

So, the current GT and the future GTL easily has much more capacity than the LT ever did.

Less Touring Capability
OK, this one's kind of nebulous, but I'll take a shot.

I've done literally dozens of thousand-mile days on my K12GT. Now granted, I did lower the pegs and raise the handlebars, but these ergonomic changes are built-in to the new GTL. So comfort simply won't be an issue.

You've already ceded the advanced electronics, especially in the entertainment area, so we'll leave that one be.

Sure, there's no reverse or power center stand. And a few folks that have trouble handling an 850-lb bike will miss them. Personally, I'm going to look into getting a ride-off stand that is easily deployed while sitting on the bike, and that you can simply ride away on. I had one on an old Yamaha tourer almost 25 years ago and I still miss it.

But I maintain that losing almost 100 lbs over an LT makes a significant difference in every aspect of the bike. From low-speed handling, to high-speed corner carving, to simply floating down the interstate, there is simply no area where the current LT handles better than my GT. Trust me here, folks, the combination of ESA and the DuoLever front end simply beats the LT hands down.

And the GTL has been improved even more over my "obsolete" K12GT.

Looks
Yeah, this one's subjective. But the main complaints seem to be the headlight, the trunk, and the bodywork.

The headlight is, quite simply, revolutionary. Just think for a minute what it will be like to be able to see around corners while leaned over. This is a serious game-changer, in the way that ABS was many decades ago. I don't really care about the halo-edged high beams or long LED turn signals, but they do give that distinctive BMW look.

Some of you don't like the looks of the trunk, or think it looks "tacked on." Again, subjective. But what I see is a trunk that has a huge capacity, that has been pushed slightly back to allow for more passenger space, and that has factory-optional armrests for better passenger comfort and touring capability. And it has the very useful advantage of being easily removable for those time that you don't need it. I ran a lot of miles on my LT with the trunk off, and taking 35-lbs of high, rearward weight off made a noticeable difference in that bike's abilities.

The "floating" bodywork simply reflects BMW's current styling trend, as we've seen in the R-bike line for some time now. In fact, they have been moving away from the bulbous LT-look on all of their new models. It also offers the advantage of greatly reduced maintenance time (for the home wrencher) and costs (for those who are still dealer-dependent). And the exposed engine means that tip-over bars are trivial. Heck, BMW even offers their own set. But even better, it means that highway pegs and lower light mounts are also trivial. How long has the LT crowd been fighting with these exact issues?

Engine
OK, this isn't listed as a complaint, but from someone who traded a 95-hp LT for a 152-hp GT, the beauty of the 160-hp Slant/6 motor cannot be overstated. And horsepower aside, the Slant/6 has an incredible 175-Nm of torque available. That is more than double what the LT offers, and still so far ahead of the Wing's much-vaunted 104-Nm that it's not even in the same class. And this is on a bike that weighs 100 lbs less than an LT, and 200 lbs less than a Wing.

So there's more HP, much more torque, and the perfect smoothness of a naturally-balanced inline 6 motor which is still capable of 50+ mpg. Sounds like a pretty damn impressive motor for a continent-crossing tourer to me . . .

And let's not forget that the GTL also has many other "expected" luxury touring features, like central locking, ground lighting, a killer stereo with Bluetooth and iPod control, and several lockable fairing compartments. And a larger gas tank for even better range, along with a proper built-in yet still easily removable GPS mounted high and center where it belongs, not tacked on like some cheesy afterthought.

So with the possible exceptions of reverse and the power center stand (both of which add unnecessary weight and complications), I'm betting that there is simply nothing that the LT will do better than the GTL.

Nothing.

Some of you may still disagree. And to them, I say that there will be an awful lot of low-mileage LTs out there real cheap, real soon.

The rest of us will still wave as we fly past, honest . . .

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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post #20 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 9:15 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by eng943
It's obvious that the old LT was built to be an American Interstate eater. Ultimately, not only does that equate to design compromises, it it also effectively limits it's appeal.
Agreed. The LT was and still is a fine bike that rides great, for a huge mondo-tourer. But its 10+ year old technology has simply been surpassed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eng943
I think BMW made the right call by establishing their own distinctive niche in the touring bike category.
Totally agree. I want my comfort and amenities, but I also want to be able to play, too. The GTL looks pretty damn good to me . . .

Ken
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post #21 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 9:29 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Diito to both you guys. My 2006 is a fine machine but i think the GTL will fit me better. Just enough changes to make it lot s of fun. I want one. Now
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post #22 of 74 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 9:37 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Very well put Ken.
There will always be subjectivity when it comes to styling and what each of us are looking for in a bike, but there are some items which can be quantified - luggage capacity, horsepower and torque, weight, etc. All which are improved in the GTL.

The more I read about the GTL the more that it fits what I'm looking for. Yes, the trunk isn't as "integrated" into the bodywork as the LT, but for me, I'll no doubt be running it without the trunk when around town or day trips. The removablity is a huge bonus for me. When I take the long trips, I can use the trunk and load down the 2nd seat with gear (my GF likes riding with me, but not touring). The headlight is a much needed improvement - a common complaint over the years for those of us riding LT's at night is the weak headlight, and the adaptive headlight is truly a game-changer.

Thanks for your post - I'm in agreement. Now I have to wait for them to show up at my local dealer (where I have had a down pymt on the first one)

Scott

In the garage:
'12 K1600 GTL (took delivery 5/25)
'12 Ducati Monster EVO 1100
'08 Big Dog Pitbull
'79 Honda CX 500 Deluxe (restored)

Past:
'09 BMW R1200R
'09 BMW K1200 LT
'08 Victory Vision
'06 Yamaha FJR1300
'03 BMW K1200 LT
'02 Gold Wing 1800
'98 Yamaha Roadstar
'96 GoldWing 1500
'79 Honda CX500
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post #23 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 4:05 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBreeze
Very well put Ken.
There will always be subjectivity when it comes to styling and what each of us are looking for in a bike, but there are some items which can be quantified - luggage capacity, horsepower and torque, weight, etc. All which are improved in the GTL.
Great. What exactly is the luggage capacity (in Liters please)? I can't find this anywhere.
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post #24 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 4:32 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

All of the people complaining about the GTL seem to love the LT. So they're not the target market because they already have the bike they love. The GTL is not meant to be just a more powerful LT.

First of all, integrated bags are bad because they're not [easily] removable. The bike may look good with them on but you don't have the convenience of carrying them into your room like you can with regular non-integrated side- and top-cases. Also integrated bags are more expensive because they're specific to that model, making the bike more expensive.

Reverse is really useful but there's just no room and hopefully the bike's much lighter weight and lower seat will at least mostly make up for that.

Power center-stand is really not important. There's nothing wrong with the side-stand and when doing maintenance you can use the block trick to easily get any bike into its center-stand.
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post #25 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 5:47 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGameProgrammer
All of the people complaining about the GTL seem to love the LT. So they're not the target market because they already have the bike they love. The GTL is not meant to be just a more powerful LT.

First of all, integrated bags are bad because they're not [easily] removable. The bike may look good with them on but you don't have the convenience of carrying them into your room like you can with regular non-integrated side- and top-cases. Also integrated bags are more expensive because they're specific to that model, making the bike more expensive.

Reverse is really useful but there's just no room and hopefully the bike's much lighter weight and lower seat will at least mostly make up for that.

Power center-stand is really not important. There's nothing wrong with the side-stand and when doing maintenance you can use the block trick to easily get any bike into its center-stand.
Here's how I see it. The people who have and love their LTs also had issues with them. They saw themselves as the target audience and hoped the new bike would deal with those issues. We are now disappointed.

We've gone around the block elsewhere on the pannier issue. I for one don't want to lug heavy, wet and filthy panniers up to my hotel room every night when touring and I'm sure the hoteliers would not appreciate them being plonked onto their beds.

It isn't 'much lighter' - only 100lbs or so.

Ok. Maybe you have a point here, but, like power windows and steering, it's hard to do without when you've got used to something. I for one like being able to keep the bike verticle by straddling it as it hoists itself onto the center stand. Much more secure than the same operation manually from the side.

Kevin.
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post #26 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 6:46 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Executive Summary:
If you think the LT is The Ultimate Luxury Tourer and everything else just plain sucks, then you might as well just skip this post. But if you're actually interested in a real comparison using the facts that we do know, along with a few educated guesses from someone who's done 130K miles on LTs, and 150K miles on GTs, then read on.
<snippage>

Best. K16 post. Yet.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #27 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 7:17 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Ken-- I don't fundamentally disagree with anything your comparison points. In fact, I certainly respect you as one of the godfathers of this community. But I will point out that you made the decision several years ago that the LT was not the bike for you and went to the GT as being more of what you want in a motorcycle. Nothing wrong with that...it is a matter of preference. However on that basis, I feel that you perspective here is that of a "GT" fan, not an "LT" one. I would be the first to agree that the K1600GTL is a better GT. It is simply not a better LT.

Duane
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post #28 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 7:43 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

This is how I travel 90% of the time anyway, so I think the GTL will be a perfect fit for me.
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post #29 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 9:34 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Thanks for pasting the transcript.
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post #30 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 9:39 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by highroamer
The people who have and love their LTs also had issues with them. They saw themselves as the target audience and hoped the new bike would deal with those issues.
And I maintain that BMW has dealt with many of those issues. Just not in the way that some folks expected.

What many people wanted was the exact same LT with a bit more power, a lower seat and better low-speed handling, better headlights, a more reliable final drive, maybe a better slave cylinder, etc.

As I see it, BMW has given us all of that, just in a different (and much more advanced) form factor. And sometimes, change is kinda scary.

The removable saddlebags and trunk aren't just so you can drag them into a hotel room. I have bag liners for that. It's so you can easily remove 50-70 pounds off the bike when you're tooling around locally and just don't need the extra storage or weight. Like I said, removing the trunk from the LT transforms the handling of that bike. Ya'll should try it sometime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by highroamer
It isn't 'much lighter' - only 100lbs or so.
Uhh, 100 lbs here is huge. Seriously, that massive weight reduction coupled with the awesome DuoLever and ESA means the GTL will handle much better at any speed from walking to well over 100 mph . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by highroamer
Maybe you have a point here, but, like power windows and steering, it's hard to do without when you've got used to something.
Agreed. And some folks will honestly miss the power center stand and reverse. To them, they can simply stay with the current generation LT and be perfectly happy.

But if y'all will keep your mind open and actually ride a new GTL when they come available, I think we're gonna have an awful lot of switchers here . . .

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #31 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 9:45 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane_in_Florida
But I will point out that you made the decision several years ago that the LT was not the bike for you and went to the GT as being more of what you want in a motorcycle.
And I've spent three years trying to turn it back into an LT, while retaining the advantages of less weight, more power, better handling, etc.

Don't get me wrong - I loved my LTs, and still miss them sometimes. The LT remains the best bike I've ever ridden for eating up the miles in pampered comfort, even two-up.

But what I really wanted was for BMW to build a K-RT. That is, a bike with all the comfort of an LT in a lighter, more powerful package while still retaining all the luxury features that make a BMW a BMW.

I think BMW has nailed it here.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
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'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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post #32 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 10:11 am Thread Starter
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese

The removable saddlebags and trunk aren't just so you can drag them into a hotel room. I have bag liners for that. It's so you can easily remove 50-70 pounds off the bike when you're tooling around locally and just don't need the extra storage or weight. Like I said, removing the trunk from the LT transforms the handling of that bike. Ya'll should try it sometime.

Uhh, 100 lbs here is huge. Seriously, that massive weight reduction coupled with the awesome DuoLever and ESA means the GTL will handle much better at any speed from walking to well over 100 mph . . .
.
Removable saddlebags and trunk - couldn't agree more. A lot of my riding will be around town - sans trunk, but still having storage for a jacket or when running up to the "toy" store for more bike goodies. Bare bike when wanting to go for a evening canyon carve, and fully loaded up for tours/trips (with saddle bag and trunk liners which will be avail from the aftermarket soon after the bike is out)

100 pound weight savings - you are right, it is HUGE!! An over 10% savings makes a world of difference in handling. When my 105 pound girlfriend rides with me, it dramatically changes the handling characteristics and performance than when I'm riding solo.

Scott

In the garage:
'12 K1600 GTL (took delivery 5/25)
'12 Ducati Monster EVO 1100
'08 Big Dog Pitbull
'79 Honda CX 500 Deluxe (restored)

Past:
'09 BMW R1200R
'09 BMW K1200 LT
'08 Victory Vision
'06 Yamaha FJR1300
'03 BMW K1200 LT
'02 Gold Wing 1800
'98 Yamaha Roadstar
'96 GoldWing 1500
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post #33 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 12:53 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Executive Summary:
I've done literally dozens of thousand-mile days on my K12GT. Now granted, I did lower the pegs and raise the handlebars, but these ergonomic changes are built-in to the new GTL. So comfort simply won't be an issue.
Even the GT seems better than the old one according to my simulation. The torso and arms are exactly identical but the legs are at a more comfortable (forward) angle on the K1600GT. Of course putting the GTL seat on the GT moves you down two inches, effectively raising the handlebars the same amount so you'd sit really upright.

Quote:
But I maintain that losing almost 100 lbs over an LT makes a significant difference in every aspect of the bike. From low-speed handling, to high-speed corner carving, to simply floating down the interstate, there is simply no area where the current LT handles better than my GT. Trust me here, folks, the combination of ESA and the DuoLever front end simply beats the LT hands down.
Don't forget the lower center-of-gravity. There's no way to judge it without at least sitting on one, and it would have to be off its center-stand, but BMW states the CoG is low and the engine clearly is. The tank is high though. Center of gravity is extremely important; it's why the 930-lb Goldwing feels so light and manageable even to us short riders (I've only sat on one though).
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post #34 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 12:59 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBreeze
When my 105 pound girlfriend rides with me, it dramatically changes the handling characteristics and performance than when I'm riding solo.
Yeah, but there are plenty of other advantages to a 105-lb girlfriend.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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post #35 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 1:01 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGameProgrammer
The tank is high though.
Keep in mind that a lot of that upper space is taken up by the air box and inlet manifolds, neither of which weigh very much. You can look at some of the Slant/6 engine pics to see just how much room that inlet plumbing takes up.

Ken
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'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
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'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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post #36 of 74 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 1:37 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

I was so excited to see the roll out of the 1600 GTL, then read the specs, then see the Leno unveiling. I rushed here to see the latest "buzz" and am really surprised by some of the negative comments.

When I purchased my 2005 LT, I had 2 major complaints.

One, I felt the seat was just aweful.

Two, I wanted more power.

Now, I have not sat in the new seat but I am LOOKING at it and thinking, well done. That will save me $900 and the waiting period while Rick would build me a custom one.

Power is self explanatory.

I, like others, have been waiting a long time for an upgrade to our LT. Personally, I am blown away with what they have done. I absolutely can not wait to ride, then buy one.

I do have ONE complaint however:

I want a package with 2 first class tickets to Germany to go take delivery of mine at the factory, then ride for 3-5 days and have BMW ship it to my local dealer.

Seriously, how can we make that happen?

Brian Smith

2005 K1200LT
Canton, GA
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post #37 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 9:26 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Thanks Ken for the commentary. I have been following this "Update" of the LT for quite a bit now and I have the "We'll see" attitude. Now that it has basically been "unveiled" I am still waiting to see the actual product and read the "actual reviews". I switched from the LT to the GT and went back to the LT because of the ergonomics of them and have much better riding posture (for me) on the LT. Not to mention the S.O., which hated the GT because it put her up higher and less protection from the elements. So the new GTL will have a full time job satisfying her and me for that matter. As far as the extra power...yes I miss it! The comfort level though is my main concern and if the GTL doesn't measure up to the LT, then I guess the ole '08 LT will have to keep it's place in the stable.

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post #38 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 10:10 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

And yet it seemed like he avoided answering the question regarding price. I've heard 29K here on these boards, but an official price would be nice.

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post #39 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 10:10 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

I think an awful lot of new GTL owners are going to be very shocked when they find out they'll be spending thousands of dollars over and above the initial cost for most of the typical maintenance items that can no longer be done by an "average Joe".

BMW dealerships make the lion's share of their profits from the service bay - I'll bet that they'll have no choice but to pony up big time when it comes to servicing. Hell, it's obviously already baked into the bike.

BWM has done a 180 degree turn from their founding philosophy. Here's the opening line to the BMW Factory Repair manual for my 1979 R80 Airhead:

BMW opposed twins have a deserved reputation for strong performance and long service life. Their potential can best be realized through careful, periodic maintenance. This handbook covers all service operations - from changing a spark plug to overhauling the engine - in a format intended to be understandable to a home mechanic.

BTW, that was the same opening line that appeared in the 1955 manual as well...

I won't own any vehicle that requires a "branded" $120.00 oil change.


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post #40 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 10:31 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

The Urals are like that. The owners manual contins everything you need to know...and you will. I've owned only Kawasaki's and I have done everything myself. Other than the steep price, have to pay the dealer to bless the damn thing once a year has me questioning why I would want to buy one. It kind of perpetuates the effete elitist perception that has come to represent BMW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
I think an awful lot of new GTL owners are going to be very shocked when they find out they'll be spending thousands of dollars over and above the initial cost for most of the typical maintenance items that can no longer be done by an "average Joe".

BMW dealerships make the lion's share of their profits from the service bay - I'll bet that they'll have no choice but to pony up big time when it comes to servicing. Hell, it's obviously already baked into the bike.

BWM has done a 180 degree turn from their founding philosophy. Here's the opening line to the BMW Factory Repair manual for my 1979 R80 Airhead:

BMW opposed twins have a deserved reputation for strong performance and long service life. Their potential can best be realized through careful, periodic maintenance. This handbook covers all service operations - from changing a spark plug to overhauling the engine - in a format intended to be understandable to a home mechanic.

BTW, that was the same opening line that appeared in the 1955 manual as well...

I won't own any vehicle that requires a "branded" $120.00 oil change.

Ponch


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post #41 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 10:42 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

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Originally Posted by RonKMiller
I think an awful lot of new GTL owners are going to be very shocked when they find out they'll be spending thousands of dollars over and above the initial cost for most of the typical maintenance items that can no longer be done by an "average Joe".
??? What non-owner maintenance are you referring to, Ron?

Other than needing a BMW service computer to turn off the service reminder message, and to test the brakes after the owner changes the brake fluid (the latter actually being optional, but advised), I'm not aware of anything the owner can't do -- oil change, valve clearance, coolant replacement, brake flush, spark plugs, air/fuel filters, final drive oil, etc.

Yeah, some of it will be more of a pita than an airhead (tupperware removal, coolant drain to get to the valves ), but nothing not-doable.

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post #42 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 10:49 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

I have heard about the ABS service. Is that a big deal? Can the service manual be purchased? That's the first thing I buy with a new bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
??? What non-owner maintenance are you referring to, Ron?

Other than needing a BMW service computer to turn off the service reminder message, and to test the brakes after the owner changes the brake fluid (the latter actually being optional, but advised), I'm not aware of anything the owner can't do -- oil change, valve clearance, coolant replacement, brake flush, spark plugs, air/fuel filters, final drive oil, etc.

Yeah, some of it will be more of a pita than an airhead (tupperware removal, coolant drain to get to the valves ), but nothing not-doable.

Ponch


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post #43 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 11:01 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
??? What non-owner maintenance are you referring to, Ron?

Other than needing a BMW service computer to turn off the service reminder message, and to test the brakes after the owner changes the brake fluid (the latter actually being optional, but advised), I'm not aware of anything the owner can't do -- oil change, valve clearance, coolant replacement, brake flush, spark plugs, air/fuel filters, final drive oil, etc.

Yeah, some of it will be more of a pita than an airhead (tupperware removal, coolant drain to get to the valves ), but nothing not-doable.

You and I can do it - but quite frankly - how many others... and I'll bet dollars to donuts that if the services aren't specifically performed by a BMW dealer it will invalidate the warranty (even though this is supposedly against federal laws)

Even if you could have the service done by an outside facility who is going to have the specific computer? NO ONE!

I mean, you've now got to go back to visit you friendly local dealer to have the rev limiter removed on your new RR.

I tell you - it's a communist - err Capitalist - plot!


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post #44 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 11:14 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponch
I have heard about the ABS service. Is that a big deal? Can the service manual be purchased? That's the first thing I buy with a new bike.
That's a PERFECT example of what I'm talking about. ABS service on the current model newer linked systems is not something for an average shade tree mechanic to take on. It's going to be all that more complicated on the GTL - guaranteed.

I'll bet that service will cost an arm AND two legs. $500.00 would not surprise me.

If I remember correctly a buggered up "primitive" ABS on my '02 LT is about a $1200.00 fix at the dealership. You just know they'll be looking for a way to invalidate the warranty when your GTL's $5,000 system pisses itself and goes belly up.

Yeah, I'm paranoid - about losing my wallet.

Think I'll go buy FOUR new Ural ST's for the same price as a GTL. If one breaks I'll just throw it away.
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post #45 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 11:44 am
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
That's a PERFECT example of what I'm talking about. ABS service on the current model newer linked systems is not something for an average shade tree mechanic to take on. It's going to be all that more complicated on the GTL - guaranteed.

I'll bet that service will cost an arm AND two legs. $500.00 would not surprise me.

If I remember correctly a buggered up "primitive" ABS on my '02 LT is about a $1200.00 fix at the dealership. You just know they'll be looking for a way to invalidate the warranty when your GTL's $5,000 system pisses itself and goes belly up.

Yeah, I'm paranoid - about losing my wallet.

Think I'll go buy FOUR new Ural ST's for the same price as a GTL. If one breaks I'll just throw it away.
Plus they have that nifty drive-off centerstand!!! My '63 Bonneville T160 had that kind of centerstand, butt I wuz too much of a newbie to appreciate it back then!!
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post #46 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 12:33 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
I'm not aware of anything the owner can't do -- oil change, valve clearance, coolant replacement, brake flush, spark plugs, air/fuel filters, final drive oil, etc.
Exactly. I've done all of that on my GT and more.

In fact, most maintenance tasks on the GT are specifically simpler than on the LT. Remove the fuel tank to replace an air filter? Nope, just one side panel and you're there. Fuel filter? Doesn't have one, doesn't need one. Oil and transmission fluid are the same and changed together, without removing any body panels.

The brake flush is also much easier than on the LT, as there's no power assist pump adding extra circuits and complications.

Yes, you have to pull the radiator to check the valves, but in 138K miles I've never needed a single valve adjusted.

BMW has made a conscious effort to simplify and reduce the maintenance tasks on their latest generation of bikes, and it shows. Even if you let the dealer do all the services, it still ends up cheaper than maintaining an LT.

Oh, and that Service Reminder light? It's been removed in the newer software so that's no bother at all.

But for all of you out there that are desperately looking for any reason to dis the new bike so you can remain satisfied with your old, faithful steeds, go right ahead and keep on making wild-ass assumptions. As for me, I don't want 30-year-old technology. I want the best brakes, chassis, and engine that can be produced using modern materials and intelligence.

And I'm thinking the GTL fits that perfectly . . .

Ken
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'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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post #47 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 12:34 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Plus they have that nifty drive-off centerstand!!!
Yeah, I had one of those on my old '79 XS1100 and it was awesome. Should've kept it . . .

Ken
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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #48 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 3:49 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBreeze
A live chat was conducted on the BMW Motorrad Facebook page yesterday and you can see the chain of questions/answers here:

http://apps.facebook.com/bmwquestion...echatos&ref=mf


My question I pre-submitted:
The K1600 GTL appears to be a model blended from the current GT and LT models. Are there plans for a true replacement for the K1200LT or is the K1600GTL BMW's Flagship Luxury Touring model?
08.10.2010 18:02:56
Oliver Schmitt Hi Scott. The K 1600 GTL is indeed BMW Motorrad's new flagship touring model. It combines space and comfort with extensive equipment and all this in combination with much less weight and more riding agility and dynamics than the K 1200 LT. And all this with a moderate fuel consumption. So it perfectly represents what BMW Motorrad stands for in the 21st century.
I guess this is the PC way to say "Honda won, we concede to the Wing."

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post #49 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 3:53 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
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Duane, while I did chuckle at your comment, I'm curious as to what you feel is missing from the GTL as a replacement for the LT?
I'm not Duane, but what I see missing is passenger accomodations. My wife felt the LT was a step back from our Voyager as she lost the arm rests that wre built into the Voyager trunk. Also, the Voyager had more of a wrap-around back rest than does the LT. And it had two storage compartments on top of each side bag that she could store sundries in for access on the road. The GTL has even less of a back rest than does the LT and I haven't read of any other concessions to the passenger. I don't think it even has rear speakers or rear audio system controls.

Looks like my next LT may have to be a Wing. And this really sucks as I said back in 1989 that I'd never buy another Honda. I may have to eat my words.

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post #50 of 74 Old Oct 23rd, 2010, 3:57 pm
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Re: Facebook live chat with K1600 product mgr Oliver Schmitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by simoncharles
Of course he will say that. He´s not going to tell us to wait another two years until a "new and improved" GTLT is launched, is he ?.

Sell as many as they can right now and then modify the 1600 AFTER Honda have shown their cards with the GW.

That´s my story and I´m sticking to it !.
There certainly is some logic to that, but once the new Wing comes out many buyers will flock to it and BMW will not get these folks onboard anytime soon. They really need a pre-emptive strike, but the GTL isn't it.

GTLT, eh? Starting to sound like a Harley model designation!!

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