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post #1 of 31 Old Oct 13th, 2010, 11:00 pm Thread Starter
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reverse gear

If this is the replacement for our LTS do you think it has reverse gear
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post #2 of 31 Old Oct 13th, 2010, 11:23 pm
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Re: reverse gear

I doubt it, at least I've seen no mention of one in any of the press materials yet.

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post #3 of 31 Old Oct 14th, 2010, 12:39 am
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsg
If this is the replacement for our LTs do you think it has reverse gear
No reverse, as you'd have to give up sixth gear to get it, and no power center stand as it simply adds too much weight.

Other than that, this thing will do pretty much everything better than the LT . . .

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post #4 of 31 Old Oct 14th, 2010, 3:02 am
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Re: reverse gear

I'd be surprised if it does. And if it doesn't, that means some will have to be a little more mindful when parking it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
No reverse, as you'd have to give up sixth gear to get it, and no power center stand as it simply adds too much weight.

Other than that, this thing will do pretty much everything better than the LT . . .
That's a bold statement from someone who hasn't even seen one yet, let alone ridden one.
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post #5 of 31 Old Oct 14th, 2010, 10:04 am
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
No reverse, as you'd have to give up sixth gear to get it, and no power center stand as it simply adds too much weight.
With all the additional power and torque, 6th gear is totally unnecessary. Just spread the existing 5 out a little more.

I'd much rather have the reverse.

That they left it out is (to me) another sign that BMW sees this as more a Sport Tourer than a Luxury Tourer.

Power Center Stand? Cute, but unnecessary unless they supply the same Ejector Stand they have on the LT; the only bike I ever owned where I had to be sure to park in first gear if I used the side stand.

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post #6 of 31 Old Oct 14th, 2010, 12:57 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by bibleman
With all the additional power and torque, 6th gear is totally unnecessary. Just spread the existing 5 out a little more.

I'd much rather have the reverse.

That they left it out is (to me) another sign that BMW sees this as more a Sport Tourer than a Luxury Tourer.

Power Center Stand? Cute, but unnecessary unless they supply the same Ejector Stand they have on the LT; the only bike I ever owned where I had to be sure to park in first gear if I used the side stand.
A close ratio 6 speed gearbox is very nice to have, even on a luxury touring bike with sport touring aspirations (which this thing obviously has a strong lean towards). I always felt the 5 speed on the LT was spread too far, especially in 4th and 5th, and on all three gearing configurations they ran (I owned one of each).

So far I haven't seen them market this bike as a "Luxury Tourer" in the ilk of the LT or the Goldwing. With a 29 inch seat height and all the baubles that are coming from the factory I think they are aiming partially at that crowd, but they are also trying to open that market space up to a younger 2-up crowd as well. Talk to Harley about their aging demographic if you want an example of digging a hole, which I feel BMW is trying to avoid, and in a good way IMHO.

In the end, if a heavy, 5 speed touring bike with reverse is what you want, you can probably get a great deal on a '10 LT.

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post #7 of 31 Old Oct 14th, 2010, 1:04 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsg
If this is the replacement for our LTS do you think it has reverse gear
Nope -- if you look at the location of the starter and the arrangement of the gear drives of the starter and the tranny, it's clear that they can't do something like they did with the LT, where the front of the starter motor drives the flywheel, and rear of the starter motor drives the tranny once the reverse gear inside the tranny is shifted into engagement.

On the GT/GTL the rear end of the starter faces toward the left side of the bike (i.e., not connected to anything, and there's nothing in the area for it to engage anyway), and there's no room for additional gearing between the starter and the rest of the gear train, nor any room for addition of a reverse gear train inside the gearbox portion of the case. (and they can't drive in both forward and rear directions from the front of the motor; even if there was some way to spin the motor backwards to drive the tranny in the reverse direction, the start's sprag clutch would keep it from appliying any reversing torque to the drivetrain).

I figured BMW left the reverse feature out because they felt that they had adequately compensated by giving the rider an additional inch lower seat -- so that your legs can apply more reversing power to the ground

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post #8 of 31 Old Oct 14th, 2010, 3:26 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
A close ratio 6 speed gearbox is very nice to have, even on a luxury touring bike with sport touring aspirations (which this thing obviously has a strong lean towards). I always felt the 5 speed on the LT was spread too far, especially in 4th and 5th, and on all three gearing configurations they ran (I owned one of each).

So far I haven't seen them market this bike as a "Luxury Tourer" in the ilk of the LT or the Goldwing. With a 29 inch seat height and all the baubles that are coming from the factory I think they are aiming partially at that crowd, but they are also trying to open that market space up to a younger 2-up crowd as well. Talk to Harley about their aging demographic if you want an example of digging a hole, which I feel BMW is trying to avoid, and in a good way IMHO.

In the end, if a heavy, 5 speed touring bike with reverse is what you want, you can probably get a great deal on a '10 LT.
David, while I respect your opinion, consider the following:

1. Spread on the LT was more pronounced because the bike makes HP but not torque. With the torque the GLT is reported to make, a wider gap will not be a problem. Just twist the grip and hang on. My Wing makes the kind of torque that the GLT is supposed to make, and to be honest, I could do with a 4-speed. In fact, I do often, but starting out in second gear.

2. BMW, as well as many other companies, are already making plenty of goodies for the kids. Bring up Harley is kind of a red herring because ALL of thier line is dated (except the V-Rod). The LT was not turning BMW into HD. Younger two-up couples will probably not be able to afford this anyways. With few exceptions, these toys are usually scooped by DINK's.

3. "heavy"? The GLT is not that much lighter than the LT. I suspect you will find many a couple doing the "Harley Shuffle", where the wife has to get off first and push hubby back into a parking space. It's a rather attractive dance (not).

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post #9 of 31 Old Oct 14th, 2010, 4:45 pm
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Re: reverse gear

GTL does not seem to have rear speakers either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
No reverse, as you'd have to give up sixth gear to get it, and no power center stand as it simply adds too much weight.

Other than that, this thing will do pretty much everything better than the LT . . .

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post #10 of 31 Old Oct 14th, 2010, 4:58 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Park facing uphill. Isn't that what we all did prior to reverse gears? While I admit reverse is a nice feature, it is not a necessity. Having a more stable platform in a parking when you are two-up and loaded for a 2 week trip is a better option I hope will be there with the GT/L

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post #11 of 31 Old Oct 14th, 2010, 5:30 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattKas
GTL does not seem to have rear speakers either.
Not much of a concern for me with the flip-up and headseat...

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post #12 of 31 Old Oct 14th, 2010, 5:36 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Somehow, in days of yore, riders got by without heated grips, heated seats, windshields (much less raisable windshields) and cruise control. And, dare I mention, reverse gear and electric center stands. My, how we complain now that we have become used to them. Okay, so the 1600 series dosn't have what everybody would like...but they do have a lot of nice goodies and a lot to like. So we'll just have to live with what we get. What a problem?
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post #13 of 31 Old Oct 14th, 2010, 8:11 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorchilla
Park facing uphill. Isn't that what we all did prior to reverse gears? While I admit reverse is a nice feature, it is not a necessity. Having a more stable platform in a parking when you are two-up and loaded for a 2 week trip is a better option I hope will be there with the GT/L

I agree. As a matter of fact, our group has a standing rule that anybody that gets into a parking spot head-down, and has to have somebody push them out, buys the "reverse gear" whatever meal or drink of choice is up next .

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post #14 of 31 Old Oct 17th, 2010, 8:22 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorchilla
Park facing uphill.
That doesn't help me back the thing into my garage every night like I do with the LT.

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post #15 of 31 Old Oct 17th, 2010, 10:11 pm
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Re: reverse gear

I never back my bike into the garage; I just pull straight in. To get out I back it out while turning full-lock until it's turned 90 degrees outside the garage, then I shift into gear and ride off, completing the other 90 degrees of the turn. Really simple.
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post #16 of 31 Old Oct 17th, 2010, 10:24 pm
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Re: reverse gear

That reverse has got me out of a few Jams. Especially in gravel driveways were its too narrow to turn around.

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post #17 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 12:40 am
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwnahas
That reverse has got me out of a few Jams. Especially in gravel driveways were its too narrow to turn around.
So, with a GTL you will have to actually think before turning into a narrow gravel road.

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post #18 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 7:16 am
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by ®win
So, with a GTL you will have to actually think before turning into a narrow gravel road.
Yep so don't go there unless you have an LT.

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post #19 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 8:14 am
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Re: reverse gear

I use reverse to back the rear tire up onto a 2x4 to help get the bike on the centerstand. My bike is 2003, of course the newer LT's have the electric center stand. The GT/GTL has neither. It would have been nice to at least have the electric centerstand.

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post #20 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 10:31 am
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanLT
That doesn't help me back the thing into my garage every night like I do with the LT.
Same here!! It is a little up hill with a 2 inch lip going into my garage. I guess I'll just have to get my fat ass off the bike & push.

Stevie Shreeve
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post #21 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 4:48 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by ®win
So, with a GTL you will have to actually think before turning into a narrow gravel road.
More like think twice before buying one!

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post #22 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 5:06 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
More like think twice before buying one!


A gravel road?







.... they're my favorite....

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post #23 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 5:42 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by ®win
A gravel road?







.... they're my favorite....
That also. Since my driveway is 1700' of gravel, I know whereof I speak.

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post #24 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 6:41 pm
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Re: reverse gear

For me, reverse is not a deal breaker - but I'd miss it on a heavy bike like this. There are many situations where I'll be able to park in a better location JUST BECAUSE I know I have reverse to get me out. Even on My C-14, there were situations I avoided that don't matter on the Wing or an LT.

As an example - there is a breakfast place I like that has parking in front. The spots are all slightly uphill, but there is a drainage channel between it and the road. Without reverse, I'd have to park in the back where I can't watch the bike.

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post #25 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 7:01 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffgunner
For me, reverse is not a deal breaker - but I'd miss it on a heavy bike like this. There are many situations where I'll be able to park in a better location JUST BECAUSE I know I have reverse to get me out. Even on My C-14, there were situations I avoided that don't matter on the Wing or an LT.

As an example - there is a breakfast place I like that has parking in front. The spots are all slightly uphill, but there is a drainage channel between it and the road. Without reverse, I'd have to park in the back where I can't watch the bike.
I agree. I would not call it a deal breaker either, but I would hate now to now have it. For me, I suspect the deal breaker will be the passenger accomodations ... and probably the price.

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post #26 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 8:00 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince_nj1
I use reverse to back the rear tire up onto a 2x4 to help get the bike on the centerstand. My bike is 2003, of course the newer LT's have the electric center stand. The GT/GTL has neither. It would have been nice to at least have the electric centerstand.
You can do this going forward. I position a plank just in front of the rear tire and drive forward onto it.
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post #27 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 8:34 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGameProgrammer
You can do this going forward. I position a plank just in front of the rear tire and drive forward onto it.

I never had an LT but are they that hard to get on the center stand?

I'm a pretty big guy and don't think I'll have a hard time. If the design is to have a normal person put it up on the center stand I should not have a problem. One benefit of being a big Polish man I guess.
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post #28 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 8:36 pm
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Re: reverse gear

I ride a GS with a 35" seat height to my 30" inseam. I wish it had reverse too I either park it so I don't have to back up, or I just stop and roll it backwards while standing next to it. I wish all bikes had a mechanical reverse, but you know what would happen when someone lets the clutch out too fast.. Lawyers would love that feature the most!
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post #29 of 31 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 8:56 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffy
... I wish all bikes had a mechanical reverse, but you know what would happen when someone lets the clutch out too fast.. Lawyers would love that feature the most!
Hey....It buys me toys !

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post #30 of 31 Old Oct 19th, 2010, 12:26 am
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by beekeeper
I never had an LT but are they that hard to get on the center stand?
It's a matter of technique. I've owned both a '99 and '04 model LT, so I can know. The K1200GT I owned after that was MUCH harder to get on the center stand (fully packed).

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post #31 of 31 Old Oct 19th, 2010, 5:06 pm
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Re: reverse gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by bibleman
With all the additional power and torque, 6th gear is totally unnecessary. Just spread the existing 5 out a little more.

I'd much rather have the reverse.

That they left it out is (to me) another sign that BMW sees this as more a Sport Tourer than a Luxury Tourer.

Power Center Stand? Cute, but unnecessary unless they supply the same Ejector Stand they have on the LT; the only bike I ever owned where I had to be sure to park in first gear if I used the side stand.
I have come to believe that BMW stands for sport no matter what the product. After all they were the first one to make an SUV that wouldn't flip over trying to negotiate an evasive maneuver (gross generalization that) and no matter what kind of bike I ride it above all else must give me a feeling of sporting flair.

If all I wanted to do was cruise down interstates from one hotel to the next and wear matching panties with my passenger I'd buy a luxury bike like the Honda or some butt jewelry like the fancy hogs. To me and I realize it is one opinion only the whole BMW idealogy is and always has been about sporting rides . That is what brings me back. Gosh even a GS will handle corners better than some sport bikes and it is touted as dual sport. jus sayin............................

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