Will any parts be made in China? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 60 Old Oct 7th, 2010, 7:44 am Thread Starter
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Will any parts be made in China?

I'm wondering if any parts of the new bike will be produced in China. If they are that would definitely be a deal killer for me.

The automotive parts coming out of China are still junk.

Kevin

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post #2 of 60 Old Oct 7th, 2010, 8:10 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

China is a big place. Yes, some parts may not be up to standard, but to suggest that every part from that country is junk, could be over generalizing just a bit. When you have a complex item with thousands of components and parts (like a motorcycle), it's almost a certainty that those parts will be sourced from many different locations...including China. BMW has some pretty high standards, so I suspect that they most likely would have supplier agreements in place that contractually include minimum quality requirements, auditing, and QA/QC measures, and the like. Does this prevent a bad part from getting in the system?...no. Does it ensure that measures are in place to minimize such an occurence?..yes. No country is perfect...and that includes the good 'ole USA and Germany for sure. On a related note, I always thinks it's funny when the Harley riders insist that their bikes are all "US Made". Hillarious.

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post #3 of 60 Old Oct 7th, 2010, 9:32 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

I'll offer you a friendly wager for $1 that you will be finding parts manufactured in China in or on the new bikes.

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post #4 of 60 Old Oct 7th, 2010, 10:33 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincook
The automotive parts coming out of China are still junk.
I agree on the over-generalizing part. Second, the final drive must be made in China if I read your statement correctly. Mine blew out as well on 80K km, 50K miles for the non-metric people, so obviously not made in Bavaria...
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post #5 of 60 Old Oct 7th, 2010, 10:46 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
I'll offer you a friendly wager for $1 that you will be finding parts manufactured in China in or on the new bikes.
Most likely on all new motorcycles, cars, bicycles, etc., etc., etc.

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post #6 of 60 Old Oct 7th, 2010, 11:42 am Thread Starter
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

OK, I'm talking about the major components. Will the engine be made there, etc?

Over generalizing? Probably but my experience is that 40-60 percent of the auto parts coming out of china fail because of poor quality. If you guys are happy with the quality of parts you are getting out of China that is great. I'm not satisfied.

The parts coming out of Japan for my wife's Toyota are very expensive but I'm at the point in my life that I'd rather bite the bullet and pay for the expensive parts but only have to do a repair once.

The quality of the name brand electronic products coming out of China is pretty good other than that I'm not a fan.

OK, everyone keep this civil we don't have a CRAPPER anymore (thanks by the way).

I was mostly wondering if BMW was going to source main components from China to reduce the cost of the K1600 bikes.

Kevin

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post #7 of 60 Old Oct 7th, 2010, 11:59 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Where were the faulty Toyota parts made?


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post #8 of 60 Old Oct 7th, 2010, 1:26 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

I understand that the engine and transmission is manufactured in house at Berlin. You can be assured that some assemblies will come from China. To that end all of the BMW single cylinder engines are now sourced from China and according to the Motorrad reps I have spoken with, engine warranty claims are down since the transition. China is just as capable of producing quality or junk as any other producing nation, it still boils down to the budgetary constraints imposed by the purchaser. Labor costs are lower in China, but materials, energy and processes are not necessarily less expensive. It will all boil down to the specifications of the components purchased by BMW and their ability to make sure the component complies with those specifications.

Of course another advantage China has is that they don't have to be bothered by those pesky EPA and EEA rules, so you can expect that envirnonmental considerations weigh heavily into outsourcing choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincook
OK, I'm talking about the major components. Will the engine be made there, etc?

Over generalizing? Probably but my experience is that 40-60 percent of the auto parts coming out of china fail because of poor quality. If you guys are happy with the quality of parts you are getting out of China that is great. I'm not satisfied.

The parts coming out of Japan for my wife's Toyota are very expensive but I'm at the point in my life that I'd rather bite the bullet and pay for the expensive parts but only have to do a repair once.

The quality of the name brand electronic products coming out of China is pretty good other than that I'm not a fan.

OK, everyone keep this civil we don't have a CRAPPER anymore (thanks by the way).

I was mostly wondering if BMW was going to source main components from China to reduce the cost of the K1600 bikes.

Kevin

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post #9 of 60 Old Oct 8th, 2010, 1:31 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
At 32:30 in Zakaria's interview with the Premier of China, Permier Wen mentions that the iPod Player, which sells for $299 in the US, is produced in China for $4. Markup much?
Overly simplistic. Software costs nothing to copy but that doesn't mean all software should be free because it takes a lot of time and money to initially develop. Ditto for the iPod. Also there's overhead like distribution, marketing, paying all those Apple store employees, etc. But yes mass-produced goods in China are extremely cheap which is why so much manufacturing is done there.
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post #10 of 60 Old Oct 8th, 2010, 6:16 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsdad
Where were the faulty Toyota parts made?

Indiana was the the factory location of the accelerator pedals. Correct functioning ones was Japan per my dealer and the recall letter.

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post #11 of 60 Old Oct 8th, 2010, 12:01 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

If the parts are designed as junk, they'll be produced as junk.

If the parts are designed as high qaulity parts ( Conformed to requirements) Then they'll be high quality.

China can produced quality items.

It all depends on what the mfgr's give them as far as conformance requirements

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post #12 of 60 Old Oct 16th, 2010, 5:27 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
all of the BMW single cylinder engines are now sourced from China and according to the Motorrad reps I have spoken with
Taiwan, to be more exact:

LINK

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post #13 of 60 Old Oct 16th, 2010, 6:15 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrado68
Taiwan, to be more exact:

LINK
"All made in Taiwan"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QihBIewyrY

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post #14 of 60 Old Oct 16th, 2010, 11:24 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

I had forgotten that line. Pretty darn funny,

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post #15 of 60 Old Oct 17th, 2010, 12:24 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

for sure. one day whole bike will be made in china. this is where we are going. apple, ti....lots of others are making everything there. good or bad news is that now the chinese have the manufacturing machinery and know-how to produce everything at a high standard. of course junk is still there as well. apparently we are all taking advantage of their low cost labor, in the end they will kill the whole world.

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post #16 of 60 Old Oct 17th, 2010, 8:02 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincook
I'm wondering if any parts of the new bike will be produced in China. If they are that would definitely be a deal killer for me.

The automotive parts coming out of China are still junk.

Kevin
+1.

I recently ordered 9 sheets of VERY expensive Meranti BS1088 9 ply marine plywood (It's a British standard used for determining high quality) for a boat project. Prior to the order going through I asked my supplier to determine the country of origin: CHINA!

He flat out told me they have NO problem stamping any type of certification on ANYTHING - all you have to do is ask.
Instead, I ordered the quality stuff made in Indonesia. (really - since it is a tropical hardwood and the last time I looked China was not in the tropics)

NOTHING I ever fly, float, or drive will ever be made in China - even if that means keeping my old Chevy, BMW bikes and Mercedes forever.

Anyone that thinks that the words quality and China go together has been drinking LOTS of Koolaid.


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post #17 of 60 Old Oct 17th, 2010, 9:47 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
+1.
Anyone that thinks that the words quality and China go together has been drinking LOTS of Koolaid.
man i'm not their fan at all but i deal with them due to the nature of my business, been there several times, they are able to do anything at any standard.

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post #18 of 60 Old Oct 17th, 2010, 12:11 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doru
man i'm not their fan at all but i deal with them due to the nature of my business, been there several times, they are able to do anything at any standard.
+1 on that.

If you need cheap stuff, they'll do it cheap. If you want quality, they can make it, although of course it will be' more expensive. But then, few people is ready to' pay expensive stuff coming from China, so few company ask quality, expensive wares to' chinese companies.

Where China is gonna kill the markets, is in production with high labour percentages and low material cost, like clothing and such things. That's where they can (eventually) produce good stuff at cheap prices.

I don't think that car components or whole cars fall in the same category, that's why we haven't yet seen quality cars based on chinaware.

But don't worry: the Chinese People learns fast, they will soon find the way to' overcome also this last obstacle

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post #19 of 60 Old Oct 17th, 2010, 2:20 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

sorry that is only partially true, the chinese are able to manufacture at highest standards products that also include high quantity of costly raw materials. you will surprised to find a few $ alarm clock carved from 1kg aluminium block, they do well stone, wood, anything.
the problem they have is that at list for the monent they are unable to design from scratch an interesting product, that is why they mostly copy or manufacture oem for western brands.

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post #20 of 60 Old Oct 17th, 2010, 4:57 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

"+1 on that. If you want quality, they can make it"

"they are able to do anything at any standard."

If we're talking about quality I can only relate to something I've spent 28 years at: aviation.

Boeing is struggling to get the Dreamliner in the air due to defects in the rudder that was built in China. BTW, they are blaming the Italians for this one. I have first hand knowledge since my next door neighbor is a 23 year veteran engineer for Boeing. She is absolutely disgusted.

Interesting to note that several years ago after Boeing announced close to 600 million dollars in production would be moved to China the state owned airline announced orders for 60 Dreamliners. At $170 million a pop? If my math is correct that's 10 BILLlON!

After two years of delays Cessna STILL can't deliver the new Chinese built Skycatcher since it has serious quality control problems. The problem arose when two test aircraft crashed after aggressive spins were initiated and could not be recovered from. They've now transferred this part of the build back to Wichita - Cessna's home. Among professional pilots no one who has any serious seat time would even THINK about flying this piece of garbage.

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post #21 of 60 Old Oct 17th, 2010, 8:13 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

They make great walls.

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post #22 of 60 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 3:29 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

For every crappy part from China, there is an American or European Capitalist who asked them to make it cheaper.
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post #23 of 60 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 4:40 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doru
for sure. one day whole bike will be made in china. this is where we are going. apple, ti....lots of others are making everything there. good or bad news is that now the chinese have the manufacturing machinery and know-how to produce everything at a high standard. of course junk is still there as well. apparently we are all taking advantage of their low cost labor, in the end they will kill the whole world.
It is a funny world. When I joined the corporate world in 1983, the director of the engineering group I was in made a trip to Japan to tour several factories and came back with fear in his eyes. He basically had already accepted defeat and felt that America could never again compete with Japan. Just a few years later the 90s came along...

I don't know what will be the undoing of China, but I do know that they will some day be undone. What goes around comes around. Remember that several hundred years ago China and India ruled the world of commerce and then faded to the west. The cycle has turned again, but also will some day turn again...

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post #24 of 60 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 4:43 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
NOTHING I ever fly, float, or drive will ever be made in China - even if that means keeping my old Chevy, BMW bikes and Mercedes forever.

Anyone that thinks that the words quality and China go together has been drinking LOTS of Koolaid.
Hmm.... I remember lots of folks saying much the same thing about Japan back in the 60s. Ron, I think you are old enough to remember the 60s, right?

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post #25 of 60 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 6:08 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
NOTHING I ever fly, float, or drive will ever be made in China - even if that means keeping my old Chevy, BMW bikes and Mercedes forever.
:
Mercedes makes the E class in China and will now be opening an engine plant.. Imagine, a Benz engine made in China! It's the first wedge in exporting more jobs to China.. First they make engines for the local Chinese market, then low and behold, they have excess capacity and they start exporting them back to the fatherland for use in MercBenz destined for the rest of the world..

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.html

VW, Honda, Hyndai and others have car plants in China.
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post #26 of 60 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 6:09 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
He basically had already accepted defeat and felt that America could never again compete with Japan. Just a few years later the 90s came along...

I don't know what will be the undoing of China, but I do know that they will some day be undone. What goes around comes around.
Interesting thought, it might well happen as you wrote. After all, history always goes in circles and we all go back to the same point sooner or later.

But what we should not allow ourselves to do, in my humble opinion, is sit here and look at China thinking that they are only good to build crappy, cheap stuff.

Denying the Chinese power won't make any good to the western economy: you can only survive if you know your opponents, recognise their ability and play your cards accordingly.

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post #27 of 60 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 7:35 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

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Hmm.... I remember lots of folks saying much the same thing about Japan back in the 60s. Ron, I think you are old enough to remember the 60s, right?
I don't remember the 60's even though it is rumored that I was indeed there.

(I was 10 years old in 1964 and knew everything. Little has changed. )


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post #28 of 60 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 7:38 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

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Originally Posted by dmatson
They make great walls.
..and darned good finger traps.


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post #29 of 60 Old Oct 18th, 2010, 11:57 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

coming the first time from europe to the states over 20 years ago i was stunned about the scale of everything and i am not talking about buildings only. i am more stunned about the chinese the last 5 years or so, it is simply frightening, you should go there and see. for the moment i take advantage buying/selling their products directly, but what if they will start to control/own distribution channells same as big car/electronics manufacturers? i personally look to china as a threat. 20 years ago i was doing business in the us, then moved to korea/taiwan, now almost exclusive with china. this was all cost related. profit was same or better in the old times. we can't get extra mark-up if we buy cheap, simply let the product go cheaper in the market, same mark-up.

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post #30 of 60 Old Oct 19th, 2010, 6:02 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

in engineering terms, 2 + 2 equals 4 in china as well as in u.s. and germany. chinese manufacturing is as sophisticated as any in the world, and they will manufacture to any specs berlin requires. we toured the munich bmw car factory. workers there make $44 per/hr us equiv.......workers in china make $1 per/her equiv. berlin would be stupid not to take advantage of chinese advantages, given equivalent engineering and manufacturing skills, and believe me, they are equivalent.
so this 'make in america' bull all started in detroit in the sixties as a red herring because the japs were kickin our asses. engineering specs don't know ethnicity or nationality. all races are equally capable now in this global economy. in short, asia has caught up......so next time we bash our asian compatriots, remember, they will manufacture to whatever standards bmw requires.
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post #31 of 60 Old Oct 19th, 2010, 7:55 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

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in engineering terms, 2 + 2 equals 4 in china as well as in u.s. and germany. chinese manufacturing is as sophisticated as any in the world, and they will manufacture to any specs berlin requires. we toured the munich bmw car factory. workers there make $44 per/hr us equiv.......workers in china make $1 per/her equiv. berlin would be stupid not to take advantage of chinese advantages, given equivalent engineering and manufacturing skills, and believe me, they are equivalent.
so this 'make in america' bull all started in detroit in the sixties as a red herring because the japs were kickin our asses. engineering specs don't know ethnicity or nationality. all races are equally capable now in this global economy. in short, asia has caught up......so next time we bash our asian compatriots, remember, they will manufacture to whatever standards bmw requires.
You are partially right. However, the Chinese still haven't caught up with the west in all areas. Their QC is good for the most part - even excellent sometimes, but isn't as consistent as it should be. Also, Chinese metallurgy still leaves a lot to be desired. I own a graphics business and have some equipment made in China - it works well, bus is not the equal of anything made in Japan or the US.

The worker isn’t the issue; it’s their management that is. I don’t see BMW using anything made in china at this point.

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post #32 of 60 Old Oct 19th, 2010, 8:14 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

they hire foreign managers massively. received several proposals myself. fortunatelly i manage my business good ehough to survive crisis. indeed they still have flaws. what if they had not?

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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

The problem China has is not quality now, as they have RAPIDLY become quite adept at producing some quality items. However, they have a huge problem with consistency. Much of this is due to their use of scattered "garage" shops to produce parts, not necessarily the same shop this week as last week. Japan has operated like this for decades, but developed quality control methods to insure quality. China has not addressed this, yet.

I have been pretty amazed at how rapidly China has improved their production. I am very chagrined to see the US lose their manufacturing base, and don't see how we will ever get it back. China probably WILL become the next "Japan", and we will likely see many quality items coming from there in the not very distant future. I have seen a very rapid increase in items that are pretty good compared to just 5 years ago, an impressive feat for any country. Korea is producing some good quality, but it took them a long time to get there. China seems to be on a much faster track.

I recently purchased a pretty nice metal lathe (Jet brand) made in China. Certainly not the quality of the old American Iron, but not all that "bad" compared to just a few years ago. Plenty good for my hobby shop. I hate buying Chinese, but have to bent to the economic forces, like buy Chinese or do without. Absolutely cannot buy an American lathe now, same size would cost several times as much, if there even is one available. Grizzly tools bought out the South Bend name, but it is now produced in Taiwan and China.

Like Ron though, I sure would not want to fly an airplane produced there, yet.

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post #34 of 60 Old Oct 19th, 2010, 1:41 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
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Where were the faulty Toyota parts made?
Indiana
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post #35 of 60 Old Oct 19th, 2010, 6:31 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

I Like Chinese.




I Like Chinese
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post #36 of 60 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 1:38 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

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Originally Posted by RonKMiller
+1.

NOTHING I ever fly, float, or drive will ever be made in China - even if that means keeping my old Chevy, BMW bikes and Mercedes forever.

Anyone that thinks that the words quality and China go together has been drinking LOTS of Koolaid.
Ron, have you been hittin' the KoolAid? You don't seriously think, for a moment, that your flying, floating, and/or road machines have no parts made in China...do you?

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post #37 of 60 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 5:03 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

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Ron, have you been hittin' the KoolAid? You don't seriously think, for a moment, that your flying, floating, and/or road machines have no parts made in China...do you?
Yes, if Ron believes he has no Chinese parts in what he owns now, he is probably drinking something just a leetle stronger than KooAid!

Unless all of his vehicles are at least 20 years old. Then again, I had the dash on my 1994 Chevy truck apart recently to try to replace some burned out lights and it has plastic dash parts that were stampled "Made in China." And, worse yet, the light bulbs for the climate control unit are integral with the PCB and don't appear to be replaceable, at least not easily and I couldn't find any bulbs that appear to be the same type. So, even a 17 year-old Chevy has Chinese parts in it.

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post #38 of 60 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 7:29 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

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So, even a 17 year-old Chevy has Chinese parts in it.
C'mon now, let's not confuse the issue with real facts. Sometimes you simply gotta have faith that your beliefs are right and true, even in the face of undeniable evidence.

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post #39 of 60 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 8:46 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Can China produce a better final drive? Japan seems to be able to. Then again, so does everyone.
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post #40 of 60 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 8:48 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

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C'mon now, let's not confuse the issue with real facts. Sometimes you simply gotta have faith that your beliefs are right and true, even in the face of undeniable evidence.
I guess that is why I could never be a Democrat! Ha, ha, ha...

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post #41 of 60 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 9:44 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

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Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
Can China produce a better final drive? Japan seems to be able to. Then again, so does everyone.
No, it was the French bearing missing two balls that replaced the German FAG bearing that made the rear end great.

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post #42 of 60 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 10:21 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

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Then again, so does everyone.
Too bad they're all attached to bikes that no one wants . . .

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post #43 of 60 Old Oct 20th, 2010, 10:23 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
I guess that is why I could never be a Democrat! Ha, ha, ha...
Too enshrined in the "faith is the only answer" camp like most of the red states, huh? It's OK, you'll wise up and get over it eventually.

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post #44 of 60 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 6:01 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Too bad they're all attached to bikes that no one wants . . .
+1

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post #45 of 60 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 7:31 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Too bad they're all attached to bikes that no one wants . . .
The market seems to say otherwise. But then again, you're not real big on "facts" Ken. How's that faith-based life of yours working for you?
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post #46 of 60 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 8:59 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

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Too enshrined in the "faith is the only answer" camp like most of the red states, huh? It's OK, you'll wise up and get over it eventually.
Do you mean "faith" like in "BMW final drives are great and never break," or "nobody wants bikes not made in Germany."

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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
The market seems to say otherwise. But then again, you're not real big on "facts" Ken. How's that faith-based life of yours working for you?
There has to be another "Crapper" someplace on the net...

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post #48 of 60 Old Oct 21st, 2010, 9:44 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

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Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
The market seems to say otherwise.
OK, here's some facts for you. Facts that I have seen and witnessed myself, over and over and over again.

The vast majority of riders I speak to pretty much all say that they'd be on a BMW today if it weren't for the reliability issues. And sometimes the cost, but that's usually just thrown in as justification for choosing a "cheaper" bike, in every sense of the word.

You yourself have stated the exact same things, and that there's pretty much a GTL in your own future. Not that you dislike the C14, but simply that one day soon, you'll be "upgrading" your own ride.

So what the market is saying (and rightly so) is that they won't put up with crappy reliability from a premium bike maker, but as soon as that reliability issue is obviously solved (and the economy picks up a tiny bit), they'll be right back at the dealers, cash in hand . . .

Are we done here yet?

Ken
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post #49 of 60 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 11:39 am
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
OK, here's some facts for you. Facts that I have seen and witnessed myself, over and over and over again.

The vast majority of riders I speak to pretty much all say that they'd be on a BMW today if it weren't for the reliability issues. And sometimes the cost, but that's usually just thrown in as justification for choosing a "cheaper" bike, in every sense of the word.

You yourself have stated the exact same things, and that there's pretty much a GTL in your own future. Not that you dislike the C14, but simply that one day soon, you'll be "upgrading" your own ride.

So what the market is saying (and rightly so) is that they won't put up with crappy reliability from a premium bike maker, but as soon as that reliability issue is obviously solved (and the economy picks up a tiny bit), they'll be right back at the dealers, cash in hand . . .

Are we done here yet?
I'm not sure I entirely agree with your post. One might also have said 30 years ago that everyone would have loved to have a Jaguar or Triumph except for the reliability issues – and look where they are now. Reliability is an integral part of a vehicle purchase of any sort. With the exception of cost - a separate issue, people buy what they like the best – and a reputation for reliability is a big part of that. In General, BMWs look good and appear to be made of high quality components, BUT, you can’t separate out reliability.

Last year, I unloaded my Mini Cooper S and bought a 2006 GTO. The panel fits and assembly quality appeared nicer on the Mini (which is a BMW), but after replacing the crap engine when it spun a bearing, replacing both half shafts, repairing power windows that failed, and way more… I couldn’t take it any more. The GTO is a better car that the Mini because it works all the time (...and handles and hauls a$$).

I ride a Goldwing now and I’m sure you feel superior in every way on your BMW! Before I bought the wing, I had spent way more time riding an LT which I enjoyed immensely – but in the back of my mind the reliability issue always nagged. So, I didn’t even consider the LT for my next bike because of that. My brother is in the same boat – he also bought a wing for the same reasons. After a year, the two of us agree that our Goldwings are much better bikes all around than the LT for several reasons including the reliability issue – not worth going into here as it isn’t the point of the post.

As for the 1600, I will wait to see how they work over a couple of years before considering a purchase. Then, it they appear to be good, I’ll buy it and ride until the warranty expires and then unload it on some sucker that thinks BMW on the side means better in every way. I will never own a German vehicle of any kind again without a warranty!

Now we’re done here! :

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post #50 of 60 Old Oct 22nd, 2010, 1:10 pm
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Re: Will any parts be made in China?

Each of us has to ride what fits us best, based on a variety of factors.

If you're happy on a Wing, or an FJR, or any other bike, then great, enjoy it. And be glad that we have so many choices out there now.

Personally, I've ridden pretty much all of them. And while there are some great bikes out there none have impressed me enough to lay down my cash.

And yes, reliability is a huge concern. And one that BMW has had very public issues with over the last decade or so. As have other manufacturers. But I maintain that every new BMW model is getting better and better in that regard.

Some folks might disagree. So be it. As I said there are lots of other choices out there.

But ride whatever you ride because it's what you want to ride, not because what you really want to ride somehow seems to fall short in one area or another . . .

Ken
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