How close to a real luxury tourer? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 23 Old Jul 26th, 2010, 11:47 am Thread Starter
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How close to a real luxury tourer?

For the last 2-3 years, I have getting serious about getting a luxury touring bike. However, as I got closer to actually getting one, both BMW and Honda just stopped making them. So I figured I would wait and see what the replacements would be. As you all know there has been much speculation in both BMW and Honda communities.
I guess my only remaining question is weather or not the K1600GTL is a luxury tourer or a luxury sport tourer. I am really looking for something that is made for two up touring. I own a 2000 R1100RT since new, and also have a Ducati 900SS. My SO is pushing me into a more comfortable touring bike since taking test rides on both the BMW LT and a Wing.
Do you think I will be able to convince her that this is a luxury touring bike? I hope so as having 160 ponies on call and all the gizmos will fit my bill with no problem. Is this bike going to be closer to the K1300GT or the K1200LT?
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post #2 of 23 Old Jul 26th, 2010, 12:14 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Have I missed something? Honda is giong to stop making a luxury touring bike? If true that would mean the end of the Gold Wing wouldn't it? I just can't see them doing that. If it is that would leave as your choices the Harley 'glides, Victory Vision, Yamaha Royal Star Venture and the Kawasaki Vulcan Voyager. BTW I saw one of the Voyagers the other day and it's huge!

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post #3 of 23 Old Jul 26th, 2010, 1:11 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Step 1) Wait until the K1600 actually comes out.

Step 2) Ride one for yourself.

Step 3) Decide.

If you just can't wait that long, there are some really great deals on low-mileage K1200LT's out there. It's still a great bike, especially two-up.

But whatever you do, don't be surprised in a year or two when both BMW and Honda come out with all-new luxury tourers with all the bells and whistles . . .

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post #4 of 23 Old Jul 26th, 2010, 3:17 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueknightga6
Have I missed something? Honda is giong to stop making a luxury touring bike? If true that would mean the end of the Gold Wing wouldn't it? I just can't see them doing that. If it is that would leave as your choices the Harley 'glides, Victory Vision, Yamaha Royal Star Venture and the Kawasaki Vulcan Voyager. BTW I saw one of the Voyagers the other day and it's huge!
Yes, they stopped making the Goldwing, we don't know what the replacement is going to be. Perhaps they are waiting to see what BMW does. If BMW is waiting for Honda then nobody is going to move.

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post #5 of 23 Old Jul 26th, 2010, 5:31 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueknightga6
Have I missed something? Honda is giong to stop making a luxury touring bike? If true that would mean the end of the Gold Wing wouldn't it? I just can't see them doing that. If it is that would leave as your choices the Harley 'glides, Victory Vision, Yamaha Royal Star Venture and the Kawasaki Vulcan Voyager. BTW I saw one of the Voyagers the other day and it's huge!
The last GL1800 from Marysville was a 2010 model. In 2008 Honda announced that the next GoldWing would be produced in Japan, with production in Marysville ending with the 2009 model. They later decided on another production run to be sold as 2010 models, but for 2011 there will be no new GoldWing. Whether the rumored Japan-produced update to the GoldWing will make it as a 2012 model is something even the dealers don't know right now. Honda, along with most of the Japanese manufacturers are sitting on unsold 2009 and even some 2008 inventory, so they are probably keeping their plans fluid. Saturday the small Honda Dealer near me sold 3 new GoldWings. Each customer decided to buy because of the announcement of no new models in 2011. If that situation played out around the whole country and all of the GoldWings in inventory get gobbled up, there may be an announcement sooner than later.

The new GoldWing rumor thread on the GL1800 riders forum has lots of speculation, but no real news.

Conversely, if BMWs gamble for a more compact luxury touring machine is met by public approval (translated into sales - especially conquest sales), then Honda may rethink the market as well. I am keeping a very open mind about the K1600GTL, because it might be the right product for the current economy. It is possible that the bike will have the kind of relaxed ergonomics to make it a suitable replacement for the LT. If the engine is narrow enough to allow some comfortable highway pegs to be attached, it will make many who couldn't consider a GT very happy. Hopefully all the speculation will be met with some real answers after the real GTL is shown this fall.

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Last edited by Randy; Jul 26th, 2010 at 5:40 pm.
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post #6 of 23 Old Jul 26th, 2010, 5:55 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

I knew they were closing the Mayville plant and they'd produce the GW in Japan. I just didn't know they had ceased production all together. Since I have no interest in the Wing I never looked into it more.

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post #7 of 23 Old Jul 27th, 2010, 4:58 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueknightga6
I knew they were closing the Mayville plant and they'd produce the GW in Japan. I just didn't know they had ceased production all together. Since I have no interest in the Wing I never looked into it more.
Honestly Chris, the only company I know that keeps secrets better than BMW is Honda. I wouldn't take any credance in the rumor mill.

For all anyone knows, the new Wing has been designed, and the Japanese plant is tooling up to produce when unsold 09's and 10's are mostly gone.

With the lead time needed to design a new model (measured in years and not months), the idea that they are waiting to see what BMW is doing doesn't pass the smell test.

Accordingly, I doub't that BMW is waiting to see the new Wing before they finalize a long term LT replacement. It doesn't take a genius to see what the new benchmarks should be in the new models.

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post #8 of 23 Old Jul 27th, 2010, 11:00 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

It's been confirmed, er somewhere, that the GTL would have a very upright relaxed riding position. It is definitely the spiritual replacement for the K1200LT.

The GT on the other hand is supposed to have a somewhat more sporty riding position probably like the K1300GT. Many are suggesting the K1600GT will actually replace the K1300GT, especially with the release of the "Exclusive Edition" K1300GT (a perfectly normal fully-loaded model) seemingly concocted to clear out existing inventory.
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post #9 of 23 Old Jul 28th, 2010, 9:19 am
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
The last GL1800 from Marysville was a 2010 model. In 2008 Honda announced that the next GoldWing would be produced in Japan, with production in Marysville ending with the 2009 model. They later decided on another production run to be sold as 2010 models, but for 2011 there will be no new GoldWing. Whether the rumored Japan-produced update to the GoldWing will make it as a 2012 model is something even the dealers don't know right now. Honda, along with most of the Japanese manufacturers are sitting on unsold 2009 and even some 2008 inventory, so they are probably keeping their plans fluid. Saturday the small Honda Dealer near me sold 3 new GoldWings. Each customer decided to buy because of the announcement of no new models in 2011. If that situation played out around the whole country and all of the GoldWings in inventory get gobbled up, there may be an announcement sooner than later.

The new GoldWing rumor thread on the GL1800 riders forum has lots of speculation, but no real news.

Conversely, if BMWs gamble for a more compact luxury touring machine is met by public approval (translated into sales - especially conquest sales), then Honda may rethink the market as well. I am keeping a very open mind about the K1600GTL, because it might be the right product for the current economy. It is possible that the bike will have the kind of relaxed ergonomics to make it a suitable replacement for the LT. If the engine is narrow enough to allow some comfortable highway pegs to be attached, it will make many who couldn't consider a GT very happy. Hopefully all the speculation will be met with some real answers after the real GTL is shown this fall.
I'm having some decision problems with the whole thing because when I hit the highway, I want the size and comfort of the Goldwing. I never could get used to the looks of the wing. The design was simply outdated, but the ride and power and room were simply awesome. I've been hoping that BMW would step up and make a bigger touring machine. Now I'm wondering if I won't just buy an 09 Wing and just put up with the looks. At this point I'm waiting to see the final result of the new GL1600 and then see if Honda is actually going to really redesign the wing, but by next spring I want a new machine. There's really only two in the running for me and that's the wing or the BMW. I find the 1200LT to be a little to top heavy even in comparrison to the wing. I was hoping for a little better feel with the new 1600. Unfortunately, it may be some time before one becomes available for a test ride.
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post #10 of 23 Old Jul 28th, 2010, 4:06 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGameProgrammer
It's been confirmed, er somewhere, that the GTL would have a very upright relaxed riding position. It is definitely the spiritual replacement for the K1200LT.

The GT on the other hand is supposed to have a somewhat more sporty riding position probably like the K1300GT. Many are suggesting the K1600GT will actually replace the K1300GT, especially with the release of the "Exclusive Edition" K1300GT (a perfectly normal fully-loaded model) seemingly concocted to clear out existing inventory.
Well, I think the details are still too sketchy to make absolute statements as to what the GTL is a replacement for. To me it looks much more RTish than LTish, but we won't know until we see one live and get some first hand road test reports.

I'm still hoping that the real LT successor is as yet unannounced.

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post #11 of 23 Old Jul 28th, 2010, 4:38 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGameProgrammer
It's been confirmed, er somewhere, that the GTL would have a very upright relaxed riding position. It is definitely the spiritual replacement for the K1200LT.

The GT on the other hand is supposed to have a somewhat more sporty riding position probably like the K1300GT. Many are suggesting the K1600GT will actually replace the K1300GT, especially with the release of the "Exclusive Edition" K1300GT (a perfectly normal fully-loaded model) seemingly concocted to clear out existing inventory.
Might I ask what a "spiritual replacement for the K1200LT" means?

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post #12 of 23 Old Jul 30th, 2010, 10:53 am
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

I agree that one manufacturer isn't waiting in the wings to see what another manufacturer does. Look at Honda's ST. It was trumped by BMW with the 1200GT then trumped again by the 1300GT and it looks like they will be trumped again by the 1600. They are still producing the ST with only slight changes. When the R&D is done and they think they can make money - that is when a new model will appear.
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post #13 of 23 Old Aug 4th, 2010, 10:53 am
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Honda still makes the Goldwing! It's one of Honda's best selling bikes!!
They just moved production from Ohio to Japan.
Rumors are a newer styled wing will appear, but that's just rumors.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mwnahas
Yes, they stopped making the Goldwing, we don't know what the replacement is going to be. Perhaps they are waiting to see what BMW does. If BMW is waiting for Honda then nobody is going to move.

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post #14 of 23 Old Aug 4th, 2010, 12:20 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryP
Honda still makes the Goldwing! It's one of Honda's best selling bikes!!
Still makes it, or still sells it?

BMW is still selling LT's, but they have stopped producing them. So they're just selling off their back stock and changing the model year dates . . .

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post #15 of 23 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 8:49 am
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Still makes it, or still sells it?
Who can actually tell? The rumour mill on the GL1800 forums is that Honda has come out and stated that the Wing will be made in Japan. That tells me it will still be produced but rumours are just that. It would be sad to see it go because it is still my favorite ride down the highway. However, since dealers still have new unsold 2009's in stock, I suspect I would have a good choice of one if I decided to buy one and since you can make those big six's last 20 years it couldl be the last bike I need before a wheel chair. I'm on hold waiting to see the new BMW 1600 before I make the final decision. I have hopes in the BMW but I'm thinking from reading here that it isn't going to be the luxury tourer I want.
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post #16 of 23 Old Aug 6th, 2010, 8:26 pm Thread Starter
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

I'm getting more and more excited about the GTL. I read every post and long for more real news. I Hate this! If history plays true I will be in this damn bike limbo for the next 8-10 months. Just like I did 27 years ago when I bought my third bike a 1983 Suzuki GS1100S Katana. I carried the flyer in my back pocket for months until it was in tatters. You would think the idea of getting a new bike be less traumatic when you get older.
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post #17 of 23 Old Aug 24th, 2010, 11:40 am
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryP
Honda still makes the Goldwing! It's one of Honda's best selling bikes!!
They just moved production from Ohio to Japan.
Rumors are a newer styled wing will appear, but that's just rumors.
I don't think Honda makes GL's anymore - all currently available leftovers are probably labeled as "Made in USA"
The new factory in Japan is being built in Kummamoto, southern part of Japan and according to my friends from that area, there is nothing being shipped out from there yet.

BMW on the other hand has already bursted the bubble and going forward with full steam into production faze on new 1600 cc and bikes. Will they be ahead of Honda? I'm guessing so. If Honda was close to the production of a new tourer, they would start leaking news hoping to steal some of the BMW sales.

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post #18 of 23 Old Aug 24th, 2010, 5:13 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjedruszczak
BMW on the other hand has already bursted the bubble and going forward with full steam into production faze on new 1600 cc and bikes. Will they be ahead of Honda? I'm guessing so. If Honda was close to the production of a new tourer, they would start leaking news hoping to steal some of the BMW sales.

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I agree, but only if Honda considers the GTL to be a competitor to the GW. I personally doubt that they do. I suspect BMW will have the GTL out at least one year before Honda has the new GW, but from what I have seen thus far, I just don't see the GTL as being in the same category as the Wing. Unless Honda really changes the Wing to be more of a sport touring bike, which I doubt since they already have a model or two in that genre.

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post #19 of 23 Old Aug 24th, 2010, 7:44 pm Thread Starter
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

From what I have read the new Honda GW to be built in Japan is not going to be a major upgrade. The plan is to use existing molds from the Ohio plant and possible add some minor upgrades to it. So it looks to me like the GTL is the only new luxury tourer coming to market for the next couple of years.
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post #20 of 23 Old Aug 25th, 2010, 6:56 am
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
I agree, but only if Honda considers the GTL to be a competitor to the GW. I personally doubt that they do. I suspect BMW will have the GTL out at least one year before Honda has the new GW, but from what I have seen thus far, I just don't see the GTL as being in the same category as the Wing. Unless Honda really changes the Wing to be more of a sport touring bike, which I doubt since they already have a model or two in that genre.
...and BMW doesn't???

With no option for cruise or heated seats and a seating geometry that is good for 50 miles max, I would actually argue that Honda has yet to build a modern sport touring bike...they simply build a couple of sport bikes with full fairings on them.

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post #21 of 23 Old Aug 25th, 2010, 7:12 am
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

I wouldn't assume that BMW and Honda will be offering downsized replcements for their fullsized tourers and just leaving it at that. They may test the market with a more svelt offering but I believe if they don't now have plans for something all new and bigger in a year or two, you can bet they'll have something bigger ready just in case the new bike is rejected. There's a lot to be gained by a manufacturer being able to claim that their machine is bigger, better, and more comfortable, especially in the U.S. market where consumers are so used to believing that bigger is better, however misguided that thinking is, you may argue. Right or wrong, a more streamlined, in effect downsized, LT may fly in Europe, but not in thegood old US of A.

This is of course, all speculation, assuming that BMW and Honda are going to offer slimmer tourers. I could see BMW trying that before I see Honda doing it, what with the growth in size of the Goldwing over the years.

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post #22 of 23 Old Aug 25th, 2010, 2:04 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Personally, when I was looking for a replacement machine for my LT - I wanted something sportier that maintained the basic creature comforts/safety features I enjoyed on the LT - ABS brakes, heated hand grips, wind protection, and good storage capability & passenger comfort...

I drive a newer BMW car and I can tell you that the adaptation of new technologies in light, sound, and mp3 integrationn is awesome -- and I'm anxious to see how extensively those adaptations are incorporated in the new GTL...

Ultimately, I'm looking for a K1300 GT on 'touring steroids' - a little more wind protection, streamlined storage, bluetooth communications - ESA, ABS, -- and is it too much to ask to get tire valves that are easily accessible?

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post #23 of 23 Old Sep 8th, 2010, 7:49 pm
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Re: How close to a real luxury tourer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Still makes it, or still sells it?

BMW is still selling LT's, but they have stopped producing them. So they're just selling off their back stock and changing the model year dates . . .
Honda still has plenty of 2009s in stock, few 2008s, and very few 2010s since they didn't make many. Other than the move in manufacturing location, nobody really knows anything. I expect that there are some updates to be made... but who knows. Since BMW cried uncle first and started releasing bits on the 1600, Honda will probably wait for it to be released before finalizing anything - like they did when the original K1200LT came out.

As far as getting a tourer now or waiting. If you need it, get it. Both the Wing and LT are well developed bikes and do what they do well. They won't suddenly be obsolete when a new model comes out. If you look on ebay, there are loads of old GL1500s (1988-2001) tooling around with a loyal following - some with way better that 500,000 miles and still going strong.

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