Interesting Issue with new GTL - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 26 Old Dec 10th, 2014, 6:01 pm Thread Starter
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Interesting Issue with new GTL

Our brand new dealer sold their first GTL the other day and it is back in the shop for an oil flow issue.

6 miles on the engine and it will not pump oil back into the oil tank (there was 9 quarts in the engine as he trouble shot it). Pickup tube is in place and the tech is a bit perplexed with this one. BMW has not been real helpful with where else to look. Anyone seen this before?
Of course I will post here once he has it figured out.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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Last edited by jzeiler; Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:36 pm.
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post #2 of 26 Old Dec 12th, 2014, 1:02 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Wow 327 views and this is a first? Hope I have the solution in a few days (not my bike).

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #3 of 26 Old Dec 12th, 2014, 3:56 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Well John my guess would be that someone seriously overfilled it if you were being literal about the nine quarts.


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post #4 of 26 Old Dec 12th, 2014, 5:52 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Did the tech put the extra quarts in or is that the way the bike came?

Rick
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post #5 of 26 Old Dec 13th, 2014, 6:41 am
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
Did the tech put the extra quarts in or is that the way the bike came?

Rick
My thoughts too. that is almost double the amount of oil it should have.
Even on the other k1600 forum there is no word of this issue.

Stevie Shreeve
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post #6 of 26 Old Dec 13th, 2014, 7:25 am
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Seeing this post again made me start thinking. Something just doesn't seem right with this situation. First off putting double the amount of required oil in the engine while trying to trouble shoot it is rather strange and would serve no purpose other than trying to see how much oil one could squeeze in the motor. Realistically, the problem can't be all that difficult to at least diagnose. I have never tried, but there has to be a way of connecting a mechanical oil pressure gauge to the engine and taking a direct pressure reading. Once that's done and depending on the results then one can move on to checking other areas. Clearly the problem could only be a bad pump, blocked oil passage or pickup, or an opening that is allowing oil flow to by pass the normal route or someone doesn't know how to check the oil level on the K1600. If there is a blockage the oil pressure quite possibly will be much higher than it should be.

It isn't all that uncommon for a manufacturer or dealer tech to put too much oil in an engine. Sometimes they just forget how much they put in and put a little more in without realizing it. I recall on at least one occasion putting double the required oil amount in an engine using an air operated oil fill system at a dealership where I worked. I simply lost track of the indicator on the dispenser and before I knew it I had several extra quarts of oil in the customers engine. I discovered my error when I checked the dipstick and ended up draining some out.

And I have to agree that I have never heard of this type of problem on a K1600 before so that is probably why few people responded to the original post.

Rick
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post #7 of 26 Old Dec 13th, 2014, 9:37 am
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Maybe the brand new dealer doesn't realize there are TWO oil plugs, and they "think" they've drained it all, and keep "refilling"?

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #8 of 26 Old Dec 13th, 2014, 1:40 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

OK the tech is a good one. But with only 13 miles on it it was traced to a plugged oil cooler. I have never seen a GTL that far torn down. Had the pan off and just started blowing air though the oil lines until they found resistance. Not sure how the excess oil got into the engine unless they kept adding as it would show low oil. I'll see if I can find out. But they could not get air through the oil cooler so one is on order. I'll keep everyone posted if this solves the issue. Oh and the dealership owner had a lunch date today with the new GTL's owner. BMW tech support was of little help. Kind of sounds like the early LT days.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #9 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2014, 10:42 am
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Doesn't the oil cooler have a thermostat? If it does, I would think it'd be closed. Besides I don't think the oil cooler/lines could hold all that extra oil.
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post #10 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2014, 8:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Evidently the return to the oil tank is through the cooler. Not sure on the t-stat as I don't have the GTL manual. I will see the dealer later this week and they should have the new cooler in and I may have an update.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #11 of 26 Old Dec 19th, 2014, 12:53 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

If that was my bike and that state has a lemon law, I believe this would be the avenue to deal with this. They can take it back and give me a new one.

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post #12 of 26 Old Dec 19th, 2014, 3:28 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

They are still waiting for one of the oil lines to come from Denmark as there were no oil coolers or that line in the states. Lemon laws kick in after a certain period of time if the dealer can't resolve the issue. New own is hanging on. It is hard to tell it is a 1600 GTL when it is stripped down that far.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #13 of 26 Old Dec 19th, 2014, 3:33 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
They are still waiting for one of the oil lines to come from Denmark as there were no oil coolers or that line in the states. Lemon laws kick in after a certain period of time if the dealer can't resolve the issue. New own is hanging on. It is hard to tell it is a 1600 GTL when it is stripped down that far.
Like this


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post #14 of 26 Old Dec 19th, 2014, 4:28 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

After some thought, I doubt the case actually had nine quarts of oil in it. It probably indicated nine quarts on the dipstick because the oil wasn't returning to the remote tank. In other words the dipstick is calibrated for a full remote tank. Case is probably supposed to hold a quart or two when everything is working right.


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post #15 of 26 Old Dec 20th, 2014, 9:11 am Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Geez Steve does that Honda tank have leprosy? This GTL is stripped more towards the front. I'll see if I get can get a shot today as I have to go pickup parts.

Well I have returned from the dealer with pictures and I solved the mystery as well. Turned out is was a line to the oil cooler that was blocked. They had blown air through it with no luck removing what ever was blocking the line. This was the line that had to ordered from Denmark. I took a look at it and saw something in the metal elbow, it looked like a torx fastener. Tried unscrewing it but it just spun around. Wrapped the elbow on the counter and out came an M6 fastener. We surmise that Heinrict was having a bad Monday in Berlin as he assembled the bike and dropped a screw. Not finding it he went and got another one and proceeded to finish the bike. All the while this errant M6 fastener was lying on the bottom of the oil passage. First shot of oil pressure it jammed the screw into the elbow. This prevented any oil getting through the cooler and back to the tank. I never did get a confirmation of the 9 quarts but lets say there was quite a bit of oil in the engine and none in the tank. Yes I was offered a job on the spot.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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Last edited by jzeiler; Dec 20th, 2014 at 1:00 pm.
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post #16 of 26 Old Dec 22nd, 2014, 9:47 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

You get what you pay for. They could not afford you! If I were the tech I would have pressurized the line if it did not clear I would have applied pressure to the other end. I did this on a 737 engine several times.

Brian Ley
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post #17 of 26 Old Dec 22nd, 2014, 10:08 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Nice catch. After looking at the photos a second time, I would have to say it's almost a Christmas miracle that screw stayed in the elbow long enough to find it.


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Last edited by deanwoolsey; Dec 22nd, 2014 at 10:29 pm.
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post #18 of 26 Old Dec 25th, 2014, 1:40 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

They put 150 PSI air on the line - that screw was jammed in there. It only came loose after rotating it with a Torx driver. They are still waiting on the replacement line as that one likely had some finish removed by the screw. Plus BMW does not cover warranty work unless parts are replaced - WTF?
tvguy likes this.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #19 of 26 Old Jan 27th, 2015, 7:59 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

WOW. Good Job John. Well. Now that you've had a close up look at a GTL stripped down.Is there anything that surprises you with the K1600 compared to the LT as far as challenging to work on?

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post #20 of 26 Old Jan 28th, 2015, 9:51 am Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

James, I see no issues with the GTL. I now have a K1300GT that I have yet to tear into but It looks to be a piece of cake. You do have to remove the cooling system to do a valve check and it requires a vacuum assit to replace the coolant, but other than that no problem.

Follow up on the GTL in the post. Line came in and was replaced and the new owner received and additional 2 years of warranty (aftermarket) paid for by BMW as a good faith gesture. He is happy.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #21 of 26 Old Jan 29th, 2015, 7:17 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Vacuum assist? Jeez.. That's good BMW did right by him.

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post #22 of 26 Old Jan 29th, 2015, 7:24 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

I think this was a weird fluke of a problem, and I'm glad that the dealer took care of him (even if it did take a little while).

Quote:
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Vacuum assist?
The previous K12/13 bikes and the K16 use a vacuum pump to evacuate the radiator so that new fluid flows in smoothly and fills all the little tubes and crevices.

It's a tiny bit more trouble than just pouring it in from a bottle, but it's really not all that difficult. It takes maybe 15 minutes to do, including cleaning up and wiping things down.

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'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
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post #23 of 26 Old Jan 29th, 2015, 11:06 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

IMO (and that's the only one that counts! ) maintenance on the K16 is far far easier than the K12LT.

So much so, that I am considering selling my lift. Seriously.

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #24 of 26 Old Jan 30th, 2015, 6:28 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee View Post
IMO (and that's the only one that counts! ) maintenance on the K16 is far far easier than the K12LT.

So much so, that I am considering selling my lift. Seriously.
,

NO-Do Not sell your lift!! Right after you sell it something bad will happen and you will need the lift you just sold. Seriously, once you have a lift keep the darn thing. It's paid for and you will always have a use for it even if it is not motorcycle related. I use mine for all sorts of non-motorcycle related activities like changing the oil or belts on my snow blower or lawn mower. I have even used my lift to help me get really heavy things into or out of my pickup truck. I learned the hard way many years ago to never, ever sell my only motorcycle because the "lady of the house" will always find something more important to spend money on besides a new motorcycle. The same would probably hold true with my lift.

Rick H.
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post #25 of 26 Old Mar 20th, 2015, 5:10 am
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

I remember reading on another forum of a very similar issue on a new gtl, they finally found a screw blocking a oil line, and suspected a disgruntled bmw factory worker of sabotage..
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post #26 of 26 Old Mar 22nd, 2015, 10:53 pm
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Re: Interesting Issue with new GTL

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee View Post
IMO (and that's the only one that counts! ) maintenance on the K16 is far far easier than the K12LT.

So much so, that I am considering selling my lift. Seriously.
Hi Brian, you know if you sell your lift, that's when you will find that you'll need it for something.

You can always move it to my garage and use it any ole time you want

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