Rear drive oil analysis results - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 Old Jun 9th, 2006, 9:01 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
RealWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 407
Rear drive oil analysis results

I had the rear drive oil analyzed by Wear Check at the 1000Km (600M) first change. The oil was stated to be "no longer serviceable as a result of abnormal and/or severe wear." The iron level was 291 ppm vs a maximum allowable of 150 and there was "a light concentration of visible metal present." In addition "There is a light amount of silt(particulates 5 to 15 microns in size) present in the oil."

All other results were acceptable.

I'm going to change the oil again in a few Km to see if the initial contamination has been removed since I sure dont want all those particles in the ball bearings. Bearings only like nice clean oil!!!
I suspect that some (most?) of the contamination was due to initial wear-in of the rear gears.
Is this dirty oil one of the factors causing failures of the rear drive bearing????

If anyone is interested in the complete analysis of the initial factory fill oil, I can post the whole list.

2015 K1600GTL
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340-auto
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible, 6.1 L SRT8 Hemi transplant
RealWing is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old Jun 9th, 2006, 9:15 pm
Senior Member
 
RonKMiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 6,280
I guess that's what one would expect at 600km.... would be interesting to see it done at 600km intervals for the next - oh - 60,000km!

We'll be expecting the results.

...but what I really want to know: Is the Superbird for sale?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Like Butt-ahh!"
RonKMiller is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old Jun 9th, 2006, 9:45 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
RealWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 407
Talking Superbird

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
...but what I really want to know: Is the Superbird for sale?
My son say's it is not for sale!!!

2015 K1600GTL
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340-auto
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible, 6.1 L SRT8 Hemi transplant
RealWing is offline  
 
post #4 of 24 Old Jun 9th, 2006, 9:54 pm
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,752
What about the 'cuda then?

Don't put stuff like that in your sig line without pictures man - you're killing me!!
gulfxray is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old Jun 9th, 2006, 10:05 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
RealWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 407
Cuda

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulfxray
What about the 'cuda then?

Don't put stuff like that in your sig line without pictures man - you're killing me!!
Ok Ok Ok!!!

Here is a pic of the Cuda. I used to have 2 of them but sold the green one.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Cudas0001 comp.jpg
Views:	245
Size:	27.2 KB
ID:	4270   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1040 comp.jpg
Views:	216
Size:	97.7 KB
ID:	4273  

2015 K1600GTL
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340-auto
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible, 6.1 L SRT8 Hemi transplant

Last edited by RealWing; Jun 9th, 2006 at 10:13 pm.
RealWing is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old Jun 9th, 2006, 10:12 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
RealWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 407
Superbird pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulfxray
What about the 'cuda then?

Don't put stuff like that in your sig line without pictures man - you're killing me!!
The Superbird is currently being totally restored, so I dont have a finished photo. I found a photo of it when it was a pace car at a local racetrack back in 1970/1971.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1970 pace car touchup copy 1.jpg
Views:	215
Size:	74.2 KB
ID:	4271   Click image for larger version

Name:	Finished bird at Pete's.JPG
Views:	173
Size:	121.1 KB
ID:	4272  

2015 K1600GTL
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340-auto
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible, 6.1 L SRT8 Hemi transplant
RealWing is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old Jun 10th, 2006, 9:59 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Warrington, Pa., USA
Posts: 635
It's nice see someone doing oil analysis, but I think its a bit premature to do it at such an early stage. You'll pick up all sorts of things the first 6000 miles.
I'll be doing my oil analysis at 12000 miles.
nplenzick is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old Jun 10th, 2006, 10:18 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
RealWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by nplenzick
It's nice see someone doing oil analysis, but I think its a bit premature to do it at such an early stage. You'll pick up all sorts of things the first 6000 miles.
I'll be doing my oil analysis at 12000 miles.
I decided to oil analysis at all change intervals to watch for trends - starting from the first change. I also analyzed the oil from the engine and tranny. They were all OK. ( I didnt have to do the tranny at 600 miles - but wanted to get synthetic in it.)

2015 K1600GTL
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340-auto
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible, 6.1 L SRT8 Hemi transplant
RealWing is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old Jun 10th, 2006, 12:52 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Warrington, Pa., USA
Posts: 635
There's certainly no harm to doing it if you can afford it, so keep us informed. At least we'll get some factual data instead of someones opinion.
By the way what brand oil did you do your changes with?
nplenzick is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old Jun 10th, 2006, 1:42 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
RealWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 407
Wrong oil rating

Quote:
Originally Posted by nplenzick
By the way what brand oil did you do your changes with?
I used Spectro 20W50 in the engine, Amsoil 75W90 Long Life Synthetic (Amsoil p/n FGR-QTC) in the tranny and Spectro 80W90 GL5 in the rear drive - all as supplied by the dealer.

However- when I was pouring the oil into the engine, I noticed that the Spectro engine oil was rated at API SL (newest oil rating) instead of the required SG rated oil.

I went back to the dealer and now have the correct SG rated oil (Bel Ray EXL 20W50 ) I wasn't very happy in having been given a non-SG rated oil.

2015 K1600GTL
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340-auto
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible, 6.1 L SRT8 Hemi transplant
RealWing is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old Jun 10th, 2006, 5:28 pm
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 575
Good to see an oil analysis. I just changed out the drive fluid at 600 miles and it looked contaminated. I put in AMSOIL 75W90 Gear Lube. I also changed out the engine oil with AMSOIL MCV 20W50 motorcycle oil. Sounds like from your oil analysis there is no need to be concerned if you let that one go longer. That is good news as I was planning not to change motor oil and filter for another 12,000 miles and will do the transmission oil at 12,000 miles.

I'd sure like to see all the complete analyses posted. They should also be kept in the FAQ's or Hall of Wisdom. If anyone else has oil analyses on their K1200LT's, I'm sure most of us would like to see them.
TimVipond is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old Jun 10th, 2006, 9:26 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
RealWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
I'd sure like to see all the complete analyses posted. They should also be kept in the FAQ's or Hall of Wisdom. If anyone else has oil analyses on their K1200LT's, I'm sure most of us would like to see them.
Here are the rear drive results.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	896 Km rear drive oil analysis.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	65.2 KB
ID:	4281   Click image for larger version

Name:	Rear drive oil analysis 2.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	51.8 KB
ID:	4292  

2015 K1600GTL
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340-auto
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible, 6.1 L SRT8 Hemi transplant

Last edited by RealWing; Jun 10th, 2006 at 9:58 pm.
RealWing is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old Nov 4th, 2006, 11:38 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
RealWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 407
Latest oil analysis results

These are the latest results for analysis on my rear drive oil.There are few miles on this oil (Amsoil 75W140 Synthetic Severe Gear) and I'm just changing as part of the Annual year end maintenance.
The previous oil was Spectro 80W90 mineral based.
The iron levels are still coming down, showing that the gears are not wearing as much.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Rear drive analysis 1 Oct 30-06.jpg
Views:	64
Size:	35.8 KB
ID:	8015   Click image for larger version

Name:	Rear drive analysis 2 Oct 30-06.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	28.6 KB
ID:	8016  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Rear Drive Analysis Results Oct 30-06.pdf (6.6 KB, 58 views)

2015 K1600GTL
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340-auto
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible, 6.1 L SRT8 Hemi transplant
RealWing is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old Nov 4th, 2006, 8:57 pm
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 78
As a former Aircraft Technician for the Canadian Armed Forces, I used to conduct oil analysis for aircraft gas turbines and gearboxes. I'm curious how the 150 ppm limit for iron was derived by Wear Check, which in my opinion, is a reputable company.

I also suspect that the initial high iron reading is a result of "Break-in wear" which happens when new components are getting used to working with each other.

You may have them conduct a ferrographic analysis which examines the type of debris in the sample and the shape or morphology of the particles. This will help determine if the wear is normal or not.
DentalFlossTycoon is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old Nov 5th, 2006, 9:16 am
Senior Member
 
BLBantz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fanwood, NJ, USA
Posts: 704
"Goin' to Montana soon, gonna be a Dental Floss Tycoon" - Frank Zappa

Growin it up...waxin it down...Dynamo hummm...Dynamo hummmm...

Brian
Fanwood, NJ
2003 K1200LT Anthracite

"Explain it to me once more: WHY do I have to "Press 1 for English"
BLBantz is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old Nov 5th, 2006, 11:22 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
RealWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFlossTycoon
As a former Aircraft Technician for the Canadian Armed Forces, I used to conduct oil analysis for aircraft gas turbines and gearboxes. I'm curious how the 150 ppm limit for iron was derived by Wear Check, which in my opinion, is a reputable company.

I also suspect that the initial high iron reading is a result of "Break-in wear" which happens when new components are getting used to working with each other.

You may have them conduct a ferrographic analysis which examines the type of debris in the sample and the shape or morphology of the particles. This will help determine if the wear is normal or not.
Good questions.

I'm not sure how they derive the limits for analysis. Experience over many years must be a factor?

The high initial iron will definitely be coming from the crown and pinion gear breaking-in. The first oil change had visible iron sludge in the bottom of the sample bottle. This amount of iron is definitely not good for ball bearings as you probably know!!!!
As you can see- I've been changing the oil quite frequently to get these contaminants out asap.
I'm not sure how well BMW laps their crown and pinion gears during manufacturing- but this will be a factor in how much break-in wear there is.
I'm not sure if WearCheck does ferrographic analysis or not. At this point, I'm not worried about any "abnormal" wear, as long as the levels keep dropping.

2015 K1600GTL
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340-auto
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible, 6.1 L SRT8 Hemi transplant
RealWing is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old Nov 5th, 2006, 8:47 pm
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealWing
Good questions.

I'm not sure how they derive the limits for analysis. Experience over many years must be a factor?

The high initial iron will definitely be coming from the crown and pinion gear breaking-in. The first oil change had visible iron sludge in the bottom of the sample bottle. This amount of iron is definitely not good for ball bearings as you probably know!!!!
As you can see- I've been changing the oil quite frequently to get these contaminants out asap.
I'm not sure how well BMW laps their crown and pinion gears during manufacturing- but this will be a factor in how much break-in wear there is.
I'm not sure if WearCheck does ferrographic analysis or not. At this point, I'm not worried about any "abnormal" wear, as long as the levels keep dropping.
Growin it up...waxin it down...Dynamo hummm...Dynamo hummmm...

I'm pretty sure Wear Check does ferrographic analysis, but I don't know the cost. This type of analysis looks at the metal particles through a microscope and depending on the shape of the particle, can determine what is causing the wear. For example, round spherical shaped particles are an indication of bearing wear, while particles that look kind of finger nail clippings are indicative of cutting wear. You should also change the oil on a set frequency in order to determine if the levels are actually dropping or not.
DentalFlossTycoon is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old Nov 6th, 2006, 1:57 am
Guest
 
11862's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: minnetonka , mn, usa
Posts: 637
Is a ppm iron analysis a valid criteria for a sample that has magnetic chunks (or fines) in it? I would think the magnet would have most of the significant metal stuck on it instead of it circulating in the oil sample.
11862 is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old Nov 6th, 2006, 9:21 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
RealWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFlossTycoon
You should also change the oil on a set frequency in order to determine if the levels are actually dropping or not.
Good point

2015 K1600GTL
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340-auto
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible, 6.1 L SRT8 Hemi transplant
RealWing is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old Nov 6th, 2006, 11:27 am
Senior Member
 
c00k1e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Powys, , Wales & Cuba
Posts: 1,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealWing
The iron level was 291 ppm vs a maximum allowable of 150.
I have a department at my work that does oil analysis, they offered to check mine for me after speaking to them about your results.
They asked me "who set the maximum allowable ppm at 150?"

"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" Mark Twain


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
c00k1e is offline  
post #21 of 24 Old Nov 6th, 2006, 11:35 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
RealWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by c00k1e
I have a department at my work that does oil analysis, they offered to check mine for me after speaking to them about your results.
They asked me "who set the maximum allowable ppm at 150?"
The allowable limits are specified by the oil analysis company - Wear Check. The have limits specified for all of the wear-related metals - see lower right copy of analysis form below. The limits are specified under the column "Abn". I'm not sure how they are derived.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Engine Oil analysis Oct 30 Pg1 comp.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	125.9 KB
ID:	8052  

2015 K1600GTL
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340-auto
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible, 6.1 L SRT8 Hemi transplant
RealWing is offline  
post #22 of 24 Old Nov 6th, 2006, 12:24 pm
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3
One of things that rarely is stated when people are having problems with rear diffs is how much weight are they carrying? How much total weight is your motorcycle carrying when it is being driven? Your weight + Passenger + luggage + accessories. Maximum load of M/C + people + baggage = 1323 lbs. Maximum speed with a load is 80mph. If you regularly exceed these limits then you can expect to have problems.
I think it's easier than you might think to overload the K1200LT. Lets say you and your passenger are 200 lbs each. I am sure you are all much lighter than that but the helmet and other riding gear is heavy <cough cough>. Weight, unladen, with full tank of M/C is 835 lbs. So you are up to 835 + 200 +200 = 1235. So you have 88 lbs left for luggage and accessories. But if you have added highway pegs and a seatback and extra headlights you could easily eat up another 20 lbs. And with those big storage bins looking so tempting it would be very easy to cram them full of things. The important point here is to note that the total weight for you and your passenger is 488 lbs! And you can not carry any baggage or have any installed accessories at that weight!
I don't know at what point BMW considers the M/C 'loaded'. That would be the point where you cannot exceed 80mph. But I would say anytime you are riding 2 up.
Mike S
mike94560 is offline  
post #23 of 24 Old Nov 6th, 2006, 6:18 pm
Senior Member
 
BecketMa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 3,522
Well that's interesting.

Were these limits set because of mechanical failures or because of handling characteristics?

'Course, we should ask, "Is 80 mph by the BMW speedo, or by actually going 80mph?" ;-)

Since the speed limit out here is 75, many times I have to do around 85 or I get run over by the cagers. Course, when they pull in, they leave room between us as if they were doing 40 mph.

Bob
BecketMa is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old Nov 7th, 2006, 3:57 am
Senior Member
 
c00k1e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Powys, , Wales & Cuba
Posts: 1,876
The day mine went I was fully loaded with camping gear and me and the mrs are not small. We were doing 100mph+ for most of the day and thankfully it went as we crossed a small tempory bridge, so we were doing less than 15mph - we were rather lucky!
Problem is, I am used to the ST1100. We used to take FAR more gear on that bike and the more we took, the faster we could go before the bike ever felt unstable.

"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" Mark Twain


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
c00k1e is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rear Drive: Premptive Strike old1951 K1200LT 23 Jul 1st, 2014 1:33 pm
Another Rear Drive Bites the Dust - Question lad K1200LT 63 Jul 19th, 2013 1:34 pm
Rear Drive Survey Results eljeffe K1200LT 10 Dec 9th, 2007 4:53 am
Little Leak = New Rear Drive K1200KING K1200LT 6 Jul 18th, 2007 11:33 pm
Rear Drive Weeping LJSMITH1 K1200LT 9 Apr 7th, 2006 11:05 am

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome