Crown wheel taper bearing... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 10 Old Apr 22nd, 2014, 4:28 pm Thread Starter
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Crown wheel taper bearing...

Well, as it turns out, all is not as I had hoped. In a previous post I thought that the low speed wobble had gone away with the adjustment of the swing arm and FD pivot pins. Not the case. The 3 o'clock/9 o'clock wiggle test produced movement and a slight clunk.

I pulled the FD off today and opened it up. The crown wheel bearing appears to be okay (19 balls). However the taper bearing shows evidence of the inner race spinning on the spindle. The taper bearing slid off using just my fingers. The bearing isn't so loose that it wobbles on the spindle. The I.D. of the bearing is 25.00mm and the spindle is 24.95mm.


The spacer (shim) for the taper bearing has a step cut into it. I assume that that is from the bearings inner race wearing on it as it spun. The thicker step mics at 2.65mm. It is evident that 2.65mm was the original thickness because there is a remnant of dye that identified the thickness of the shim still stamped on it. The worn surface is 2.50mm. I assume that the worn spacer (shim) has caused the taper bearing to lose its preload. Thus the movement and clunk.

My question to those of you in the know is...can I replace the worn shim with a new one that is the original thickness and be okay? Can I locktite the bearing to the spindle with a difference of .05mm between the two?

While I had the FD apart I checked the shims for the CW bearing. There are three. The total thickness for the three is .57mm.

I would greatly appreciate any and all advice from you guys that are in the know about these matters. Thanks.

FS

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Last edited by FatStrat; Apr 22nd, 2014 at 5:06 pm.
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post #2 of 10 Old Apr 22nd, 2014, 5:18 pm
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Re: Crown wheel taper bearing...

This was discussed just a few days ago and I believe the consesus was to get it knurled and Loctite it in place. I think it's 660 Loctite for that specific purpose or the typical red Loctite. Make sure you use the primer with the 660.


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post #3 of 10 Old Apr 22nd, 2014, 6:10 pm
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Re: Crown wheel taper bearing...

OK that shim does not set the preload, but it will affect it. That shim sets the backlash of the crown gear on the pinion gear. To maintain what you had flip the shim over and see if the shim sets properly on the raised step.

When I did mine I used new bearings all around and had to change the taper shim because of the machining we did on the spindle. I re-set the back lash with a new sized shim and then set the preload on the drive after that. Given the gap you have ( 0.0019"/2 ) the the Loctite Green Sleeve Retainer (640) should work OK and if the shim sets properly you are done.

The green is good for slip fit up to 0.007" gaps. See the data here.

John
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Last edited by jzeiler; Apr 22nd, 2014 at 6:15 pm.
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post #4 of 10 Old Apr 23rd, 2014, 2:02 am Thread Starter
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Re: Crown wheel taper bearing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
OK that shim does not set the preload, but it will affect it. That shim sets the backlash of the crown gear on the pinion gear. To maintain what you had flip the shim over and see if the shim sets properly on the raised step.

When I did mine I used new bearings all around and had to change the taper shim because of the machining we did on the spindle. I re-set the back lash with a new sized shim and then set the preload on the drive after that. Given the gap you have ( 0.0019"/2 ) the the Loctite Green Sleeve Retainer (640) should work OK and if the shim sets properly you are done.

The green is good for slip fit up to 0.007" gaps. See the data here.
Since there isn't much of a step left on the shim, I ordered a new one from Max BMW. Cost $6.82 shipped.

I'm going to buy a dial gauge setup from Harbor freight tomorrow to check/set the crown wheel preload and a bottle of Locktite Green.

JZ...We need to send you a big bottle of vitamins to keep you healthy. Your contributions here are invaluable!

FS

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post #5 of 10 Old Apr 24th, 2014, 2:05 am Thread Starter
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Re: Crown wheel taper bearing...

JZ,

Let me run this by you. I'm thinking that after I apply the locktite to the bearing, with the new spacer in place, I'll assemble the FD so that the Locktite will cure with the bearing being held perfectly aligned by the race.
Any thoughts on that?

FS

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post #6 of 10 Old Apr 24th, 2014, 11:01 am
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Re: Crown wheel taper bearing...

I don't think this will accomplish what you want if the drive is still on the bike. This would work better if there were no lateral loads on the crown wheel. You would be better served to set the crown wheel on the bench and let the viscous Loctite center the bearing. You only had a gap of 0.0008 on each side and the Loctite will center that up nicely. The other way you run the risk of the weight of he crown wheel pulling it down to no gap on the bottom and 0.0019 on the top.

John
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post #7 of 10 Old Apr 26th, 2014, 8:51 am Thread Starter
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Re: Crown wheel taper bearing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
I don't think this will accomplish what you want if the drive is still on the bike. This would work better if there were no lateral loads on the crown wheel. You would be better served to set the crown wheel on the bench and let the viscous Loctite center the bearing. You only had a gap of 0.0008 on each side and the Loctite will center that up nicely. The other way you run the risk of the weight of he crown wheel pulling it down to no gap on the bottom and 0.0019 on the top.
I removed the FD from the bike. I suspect that the crown wheel bearing is excessively preloaded. The shim below the taper bearing wore .015mm off of the original thickness which allowed the preload to "unload".
The three crown wheel shims add up to .55mm (two .020mm and a .015mm). The few videos that I have watched have the preload of the crown wheel bearing in the .040mm range.
With the aid of an under diameter spindle, which caused the inner race of the taper bearing to spin, I suspect that the overloading of the crownwheel bearing manifested itself by grinding off the excess preload on the taper bearing shim.
Soooo...being in this deep....I'm going to replace everything and start fresh with all new parts, and never worry about it again.
One more question....should there be any end play on the pinion shaft?
I'm wondering about the bearing creep issue.

FS

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post #8 of 10 Old Apr 26th, 2014, 10:29 am
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Re: Crown wheel taper bearing...

Bearing creep on the pinion bearing tip has nothing to do with end play. There should be none but there is no specification for it. Normal wear will result in a small amount of play as there are both roller and ball bearings on the main shaft of the pinion. Only two ways to check bearing creep, look in the hole and see how much the bearing is beyond the pinion shaft, or remove the pinion from the housing. You will have to do this anyway to fix any creep. The photo show one that went too far.

Also do not read anything into what was in there for shims. Just measure once you get the new bearings in and shim accordingly.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #9 of 10 Old May 2nd, 2014, 7:44 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Crown wheel taper bearing...

Just finished putting everything back together.
Had to replace the shim below the taper bearing. .015mm was shaved off of it due to the friction of the taper bearing inner race spinning against it. Used sleeve retainer on the spindle and taper bearing. Replaced the crown wheel bearing just to be safe.
Gauged the crown wheel assembly using the dial meter method and found the free space to be .006 inches or 0.1524mm. I added .005mm and .010mm to the 0.1524 and came up with .2024mm and .2524mm. seeing that I had a .20mm shim, I went with it. Original preload was .55mm.
If the measurements were correct...that means that BMW over shimmed the FD by .035mm.
She's all buttoned up and ready to go. Wouldn't you know that it's raining like a Cow pissing on a flat rock outside. Test ride is gonna have to wait till morning (I hope!).
Thank you JZ and Saddleman for your guidance.

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post #10 of 10 Old May 2nd, 2014, 7:51 pm
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Re: Crown wheel taper bearing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatStrat View Post
. I added .005mm (should be 0.05 and 0.1 )and .010mm to the 0.1524 and came up with .2024mm (correct) and .2524mm (correct). seeing that I had a .20mm shim, I went with it. Original preload was .55mm.
If the measurements were correct...that means that BMW over shimmed the FD by .035mm (shoud be 0.35 mm).

Math needed a bit of tweaking but some how you actually came up with the right answer. Metrics are Bi-ch sometimes. Glad you got her back together.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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