So ... Today I did the EBC Rotorpandectomy ... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 41 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 4:42 pm Thread Starter
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So ... Today I did the EBC Rotorpandectomy ...

It was a pretty easy install. Took my time (as I always do )

Changed both rotor and pads in just over 1 hour , taking time to wash hands about 10 times (Clean hands with brake rotors is a must IMO) and pour myself a Single malt scotch that I sipped as I did the install. (Don't try that at work)

The EBC Disc is top quality ... I like it better than the OEM and looks easily as well or better made. Drilled disc for better cooling too. The EBC HH pads are top notch as well.

Changing over the ABS Sensor ring was a snap , though I recommend heating it to remove the screws. Being that the EBC comes with new screws though , if you strip them out , your a drill bit away from removal anyway.

Removing the ring required prying it off systematically and carfully working around and around the disc until it was sufficiently loose. Installation on the EBC disc was drop right on , no tapping required. Some Red loctite and a #3 allen and your ABS ring is installed. I torqued it til the #3 long allen wrench flexed about 1/4".

Once this is done , it installed same as the original. (of course)

Pics to follow tomorrow. Time to ride.

Ohhh ... BTW ...Took it for a ride after install . Smooth and quiet , not being too hard on the brakes for a few miles to let them bed properly. The retaining rings on the disc are the type that you see more often with spring plates on each barrel. Look heavy duty and not prone to rattle or failure like the OEM junk. Time will tell.

Now my fronts make too much noise
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post #2 of 41 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 4:56 pm
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Thanks Petre: I am looking forward to doing mine. I have a couple of more weeks here at work then I'll be home to do the job. Everyone I spoke with said it was a piece of cake. Looking forward to photos.

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post #3 of 41 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 5:05 pm
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Petre,
This is a really bothersome problem for me and is at the top of my list to get fixed. I really apreciate you taking the time to let us all know how it works out. Thank you!

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)
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post #4 of 41 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 5:20 pm
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I was looking into the EBC rotor and pad about 3-4years ago, and remember that at that time (the rotor was listed, but not available yet) I talked so someone at EBC USA and he did not recommend the HH sintered pads with the steel rotor. The HH pads work great with the stainless steel rotors, but he said they were not good to use with their steel. He was recommending the Kevlar EBC pads.

Remember, that was quite some time ago, things may have changed in their recommendations now. Just a heads up for a POSSIBLE issue. You may wish to call EBC and speak to someone techinically knowledgeable. If you do, let us know for sure!

edited: Forgot to add, I just downloaded their catalog, and can find nothing in it relative to HH Pad/rotor compatibility.

Also, see that they are going to have FRONT pads with the anti-rattle clips installed, when the stock of FA246HH runs out. The new number will be FA407HH. No telling when the 246s will run out though.

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post #5 of 41 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 6:59 pm Thread Starter
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More than happy to contribute. You all have already helped me a great deal here as well never having had a BMW before.

Here's a few pics of the disc
OLD vs NEW EBC DISC


ABS RING REMOVED ... pry this off carefully working your way around the disc with a pry bar.


New Disc and ABS ring installed and on Drive


EBC Double H Pads


Installed with Caliper and new pads on


I road about 100 noise free miles. So far I am VERY pleased.

I'll post more pics and a better step by step break down with wrench sizes and torques tomorrow

1 more thing ..... Cost ... Less than $170.00

Last edited by Petre; Jun 1st, 2006 at 7:05 pm.
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post #6 of 41 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 7:03 pm
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Just a quick question, is the ABS ring just kept from spinning by the interference fit or do the 3 screws add tension somehow? It looks like just the heads/shoulders of the screws hold the ring from coming off and the tight fit keeps it from spinning?

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)
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post #7 of 41 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 7:06 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
Just a quick question, is the ABS ring just kept from spinning by the interference fit or do the 3 screws add tension somehow? It looks like just the heads/shoulders of the screws hold the ring from coming off and the tight fit keeps it from spinning?
The 3 screws are a pressure fit from above . Without them tight , the ring spins.

I think it was nothing more than brake dust and expansion/contraction over time that made the ring tight.

Don't forget the loctite
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post #8 of 41 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 7:11 pm
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i used ebc pads as well ...nice and quiet for about a month....started squeeeeeeeeking all over again.....crc brake quiet got them to stop squeeking
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post #9 of 41 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 9:03 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petre
The 3 screws are a pressure fit from above . Without them tight , the ring spins.

I think it was nothing more than brake dust and expansion/contraction over time that made the ring tight.

Don't forget the loctite
Thanks for the pics...

Soon as I get some time I'll get mine on order.. first I need tires... they are on the way.

Jack D. (Southern Connecticut)
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post #10 of 41 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 9:06 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
I was looking into the EBC rotor and pad about 3-4years ago, and remember that at that time (the rotor was listed, but not available yet) I talked so someone at EBC USA and he did not recommend the HH sintered pads with the steel rotor. The HH pads work great with the stainless steel rotors, but he said they were not good to use with their steel. He was recommending the Kevlar EBC pads.
Did he give you any idea what the problem might be?

Jack D. (Southern Connecticut)
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post #11 of 41 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 9:14 pm
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Does decreasing the surface area of the disc effect the ABS?

Does it increase braking distance?

Bob
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post #12 of 41 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 9:37 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackd
Did he give you any idea what the problem might be?
At that time, he said the HH pads would wear out the rotor, something about the carbon steel rotor and the sintered metal pads not being the best match.

As I said, that was 3-4 years ago, don't even know if the rotor is the same material now.

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post #13 of 41 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 4:00 pm
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Theoretically, no.

ABS basically works by comparing the speed of each wheel against the other. If the wheel speed on the front is say 12 MPH and the rear is 0 MPH, the rear is locked: relieve pressure to let wheel rotate again then reapply brake force to stop. Same process is in effect for each circuit and done automagically faster than you can think about it.

Braking distance may or may not change. Drilling the rotors allows the gas from the vaporization of the brake pad material to escape, making the pads more effective. Slots serve the same purpose, and allow the dust to escape a little easier as well. The ABS system doesn't care one way or the other, it just measures wheel speed...not how the force is being applied to the disc. Drilled and/or slotted rotors will stay cooler and allow the brakes to remain functional at a high level longer than plain rotors.

Brett

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post #14 of 41 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 9:53 pm
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Post

Drilled rotors increasing braking performance are right up there with other urban myths like cell phones causing gasoline station fires. They are nothing more than "bling".

They are, however, a wonderful marketing ploy to sell very expensive shiney new rotors to unsuspecting consumers for that "racerboy" look. For the most part - and especially in street vehicle applications - they actually DECREASE braking performance and disc life.
For many years most racing rotors were drilled. There were two reasons - the holes gave the "fireband" boundary layer of gasses and particulate matter someplace to go and the edges of the holes gave the pad a better "bite".

Unfortunately the drilled holes also reduced the thermal capacity of the discs (their most important function besides being attached to the wheel) and served as very effective "stress raisers" significantly decreasing disc life. Improvements in friction materials have pretty much made the drilled rotor a thing of the past.

Most racing rotors currently feature a series of tangential slots or channels that serve the same purpose without the attendant disadvantages.


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post #15 of 41 Old Jun 3rd, 2006, 10:13 am
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Dang Petre now I want to go home and change mine, but it will be another couple weeks fore I can get off and go home.

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post #16 of 41 Old Jun 3rd, 2006, 7:33 pm
 
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EBC Rotor

Petre , where did you buy your EBC rotor and pads , I need the same , mine sounds like it is going to fall off 28000 miles 28 months old BMW will not help ? Thanks Charles Fridy
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post #17 of 41 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 9:01 am
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I purchased mine from Cyclebreaks.com ask for Shirley.

Petre it has been a short while now how are the brakes doing now?

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post #18 of 41 Old Jun 8th, 2006, 10:01 am Thread Starter
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I ordered mine from www.Bikebandit.com

Part # 5144866 EBC Rear Rotor (BMW K 1200 LT 2000-2003) - $132.05

Part # 5144865 EBC Rear Sintered Double-H Pads (BMW K 1200 LT 2000-2003) - $30.59

For the cost I can do the replacement almost 3 times compared to OEM costs.

I am very pleased with the results. Stopping power on the new rear is HUGE! Before I was afraid it was going to fly apart.

5-600 miles now and it is still nice and quiet.

Now if my front brakes would just shut up.
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post #19 of 41 Old Jun 13th, 2006, 4:14 pm
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Smile Installed ECB Rotor and Pads

I replaced my worn OEM rotor and pads with the ECB stuff this weekend. Thanks to Petre for blazing the way. It was a very straightforward job although I had a slightly different experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petre
...Changing over the ABS Sensor ring was a snap , though I recommend heating it to remove the screws. Being that the EBC comes with new screws though , if you strip them out , your a drill bit away from removal anyway.

Removing the ring required prying it off systematically and carfully working around and around the disc until it was sufficiently loose.
My sensor ring would not budge. I tried a bit of penetrating oil - no luck, heating - no luck. Went the other direction and stuck it in the freezer for 45 minutes, a little bit of movement, a bit more, it's off!!

Everything reassembled like a dream. I'm still in the breakin period (no hard braking) but it is quite as can be and much better stopping the the old worn out brakes.

Malcolm McGee
Little Rock, AR
'00 K1200LTC Canyon Red
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post #20 of 41 Old Jun 16th, 2006, 5:38 pm
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Well well. I arrived home last night. this am rode the beerburner around the block. Put her up in the carport and started taking it apart. about 3 hours total time. I had to drill the screws out holding the abs ring on. When I ordered the rotor Shirley suggested Galfer black semi metalic pads. WOW WOW WOW what a difference no more cow bell. She stops as good or better than before it is hard to tell cause my pads were worn down to nothing. So it was time for change anyway.

ebc rotor...$132.00
Pads.........$15.00
shipping.....$13.50
total.........$160.50

oem rotor..$350.00

What can I say.

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post #21 of 41 Old Jul 7th, 2006, 6:59 pm
 
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Anybody that got some "substantial miles" (>6K miles) on this new rotor from EBC? If so, how's it holding up? Noise?

Stefan
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post #22 of 41 Old Jul 7th, 2006, 8:44 pm Thread Starter
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About 2k on mine since install .... not a peep. Work beautifully.,
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post #23 of 41 Old Jul 8th, 2006, 1:11 am
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I rode about 2K while home and brakes worked wonderfuly. I am still pleased with the product and ease of install.

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post #24 of 41 Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 11:22 pm
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Hi Petre,
Can you give an update on how this is working out?
How many miles have you put on since the install?
Cowbell?

Thanks

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)
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post #25 of 41 Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 11:30 pm
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I've no where near the miles Pete may have on his. Only 'bout 3K near as I recollect.

But - EBC rotor and rear HH pads - mostly no noise. On a rare occasion - after I've been doing a fair bit of downtown, city type ride'n - I may get a ring just as I'm stopping. NO WHERE near as loud as with the OEM rotor 'n pads. A quick trip down a local stretch of highway and one or two hard brakes - it's gone again for weeks at a stretch.

I'm WAY happy with mine!

Tate

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post #26 of 41 Old Oct 3rd, 2006, 12:28 am
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I also put on an EBC rotor about a week ago. After 1K miles, it feels great and doesn't make a peep. Nice quality unit, for about 1/3 of BMW's price.

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post #27 of 41 Old Oct 3rd, 2006, 7:50 am Thread Starter
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I don't recall the exact milage I was at when I changed over , but it was somewhere between 18,500 - 19,500 miles.

I know have about 27,000 miles on the EBC Disc and pads.

Still not a peep while braking. No Cowbell , No squeel , NADDA.

The front discs will howl on hard braking , but otherwise are quiet as well.

The only thing I've noticed about the rear disc is it makes a BARELY noticable swishing sound at slow speed when next to an object like a wall ... this is of course the the HH PAD riding the rotor. Most I think , might never notice it at all.

Would I do it again ... absolutely!
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post #28 of 41 Old Oct 3rd, 2006, 5:07 pm
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HI Petre,
Thank you for posting a reply so quickly!
I have about 8500 miles on my replacement OEM rotor and I can hear the rivet bushings have started to fail again, so that's why I'm asking.
I'm going to wait until the riding season ends and then spend some time over the winter doing repairs/upgrades as money allows, but this is at the top of the list!

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)
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post #29 of 41 Old Oct 4th, 2006, 6:53 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
I have about 8500 miles on my replacement OEM rotor and I can hear the rivet bushings have started to fail again.
I did mine this summer and I felt overpaying for OEM didn't make any sense because almost everyone has the problem and there is no reason to think a new one will be different.

After a few thousand miles the EBC is as good or better than original.. and to make it even better it's available and significantly less expensive. Don't see things like that too often.

Jack D. (Southern Connecticut)
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post #30 of 41 Old Oct 5th, 2006, 7:28 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
HI Petre,
Thank you for posting a reply so quickly!
I have about 8500 miles on my replacement OEM rotor and I can hear the rivet bushings have started to fail again, so that's why I'm asking.
I'm going to wait until the riding season ends and then spend some time over the winter doing repairs/upgrades as money allows, but this is at the top of the list!
Part of the reason the EBC IMO is better , is the retaining rings on the flating disc are designed differently. It allows the disc to float without pressure on the clips that make the disc a floater.

I'm sorry to say the OEM's are a very bad design IMO. The ONLY floating disc I've ever seen designed this way ... one destined to fail as it does.
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post #31 of 41 Old Oct 5th, 2006, 3:38 pm
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gee whizz, it is so quiet I have forgotten it was an issue. I dont even know how many miles on the brakes now but it is still quiet and since have started pulling a trailer and have had no complaints, squeals, or bells.

While at CCR had to take Miss E to Birmingham Airport for flight, (long story) anyway had an eighteen wheeler lock it up in front of me, I was engulfed in a white cloud of tire smoke, applied brakes, with trailer and when the smoke cleared was no closer to the truck than when I started, I was very impressed with the "Beerburner's" performance, in said situation.

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post #32 of 41 Old Oct 7th, 2006, 3:43 pm
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Thanks for the photo's. My 2006 is driving me crazy with the noise. I thought the drilled disk would fix the problem.

How are the brakes now since your change over?

BTW I did some checking and I noticed that the GT's "brick engine ones" share the same rear end as the LT including the brake caliper position. The discs on the GT's are drilled from the factory, and guess what, no one has ever complained about brake squeek on the GT. I pointed this out to the dealer in my town and they had no comment. I measured the discs and the are identical in all dementions with the LT, but are drilled.
I think drilled rotors are the cure to the noisey brake problem.
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post #33 of 41 Old Apr 2nd, 2007, 2:16 pm
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At 35,000 miles my rear rotor was driving me crazy, and had been for a long time. I installed the EBC and the HH pads and the noise is gone. Everything I read on this site helped me with the change over. We'll see how long it lasts but just as another member said the neighbors were worried I had a loose piece on the bike and it was dragging. The H-D guys loved it!
I had the "cow bell", the "squeel" and something that sounded like the world coming to an end.

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post #34 of 41 Old Apr 2nd, 2007, 6:37 pm
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Shame on me

It's been months since I've logged on.

I've been trying to find the source of a rattle whenever the rear end goes over a bump, and today decided to remove the rear wheel. I've been putting it off, suspecting the approach of the dreaded rear end failure (44K now on my '05).

Low and behold, the rotor seems to have room for a playmate, as it can wobble from side to side easily a 32nd to 16th of an inch. The pads (EBC's replaced about 20k ago) also appear near the end of their life.

Visit the site and voila, the cure is the number one post.

Thanx guys.
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post #35 of 41 Old Apr 8th, 2007, 7:25 pm
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Try these links, if you are in need of new rear pads/rotors:

rear rotor:
http://www.theridestop.com/servlet/t...it-cln-/Detail

Rear Pads:
http://www.theridestop.com/servlet/t...Fa304Hh/Detail

P.S. Anybody know the part # for the Brembo caliper rebuild kit? I think I have a sticky caliper...

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post #36 of 41 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 7:02 am
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Did you need shims? Follow a bedding process?

Petre,

Just when I was going to ask anyone for photos of the new disc out of the box and installed, I found your post. Most appreciated.

I am guessing you didn't need the additional shim(s) others have said are needed. Have you had the wheel off to see if there is any gouging of the wheel since the install?

I am planning to order the EBC rotor and pads right away and think I will order shims from BMW just in case.

Did you follow a bedding process after your install? Some have posted that you should if you want to prevent the onset of squeeling.

Thanks again.

Jeff
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post #37 of 41 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 12:20 pm
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Location: Savannah, GA, USA
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DON'T use the Ride Stop! I was just ripped off by them and am having my CC co. charge back the money. I ordered new EBC rear brake pads and got conformation e mail from them and then I got a link to track the shipment. the tracking number was/is bogus. I tried E mailing them but their E mail is also bogus. It is set up to keep forwarding in a never ending loop and there is no other contact means listed on their site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyF
Try these links, if you are in need of new rear pads/rotors:

rear rotor:
http://www.theridestop.com/servlet/t...it-cln-/Detail

Rear Pads:
http://www.theridestop.com/servlet/t...Fa304Hh/Detail

P.S. Anybody know the part # for the Brembo caliper rebuild kit? I think I have a sticky caliper...
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post #38 of 41 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 12:38 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
DON'T use the Ride Stop! I was just ripped off by them and am having my CC co. charge back the money. I ordered new EBC rear brake pads and got conformation e mail from them and then I got a link to track the shipment. the tracking number was/is bogus. I tried E mailing them but their E mail is also bogus. It is set up to keep forwarding in a never ending loop and there is no other contact means listed on their site.
Here is a phone number on their site, does it work?

TRS Customer Service Goals

TheRideStop.com's customer service goal is simple: We are committed to providing our customers total satisfaction. Every time. Guaranteed. Contact us at [email protected] or call (949) 419-6036 anytime, email always works best. Please feel free to drop us a note to share your thoughts on the site, all comments welcomed.
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post #39 of 41 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 2:42 pm
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Thanks for the number, never saw it on their site but when calling I just get an answering machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TxWhiteKnight
Here is a phone number on their site, does it work?

TRS Customer Service Goals

TheRideStop.com's customer service goal is simple: We are committed to providing our customers total satisfaction. Every time. Guaranteed. Contact us at [email protected] or call (949) 419-6036 anytime, email always works best. Please feel free to drop us a note to share your thoughts on the site, all comments welcomed.
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post #40 of 41 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 10:45 pm
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Location: Torrance, CA, USA
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I have used Cyclebrakes in Ventura and Shirley is great to deal with. Think I will order the pads and rotor this week.

05' LT Dark Grey, "Battle Star"
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post #41 of 41 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 11:55 pm
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I am very happy with mine, no problems at all and no more noise from a loose rotor, put on a set of new ebc pads to replace my carbon loraines, still quiet.
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