Another Clutch - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 57 Old Apr 13th, 2014, 9:34 pm Thread Starter
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Another Clutch

I guess I can't complain. Bike has 151K on it and today it started slipping in almost the entire gear range. Noticed some slippage in 5th for awhile now but I was willing to live with that.

Now I have to decide what to do. Been reading for some time about how to change the clutch but I have to admit that it looks way over my head. I have access to a lift and I have some tools (none of the 'special' ones though). Just the thought of such a major tear down scares the bejeezus out of me. But spending $2K or more ( according to what I have been seeing in my searches) is not something I am relishing either.

Someone convince me of doing one or the other or just driving it into the Gulf.

Ron Allan
Crystal River, FL
IBA 41994
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post #2 of 57 Old Apr 13th, 2014, 9:50 pm
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Talking Re: Another Clutch

Well;

I did mine at 218k. Same as you 2k$ is ALOT for 400-500$ of parts.
First, How mechanical are you? no insult just asking.
if you are a good logical, organized type mechanic then its not too bad.
Have you done any major work, like removing swingarm?
I didn't buy any special tools, and the ones you do need you can either make or Im sure someone can borrow to you. like me.
The scariest part for me was lifting the frame away from the engine. but before and after is fairly systematic. Keep all the parts in separate containers, TAKE PICTURES, mark all the wires and stuff (i used wire marker tape). Take your time and its a GREAT feeling starting her up and riding her knowing that YOU did it.
Not sure if I convinced you, but if you have the time, its a great project. Once you've done the clutch all the other stuff is a cake walk.

Zeke
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post #3 of 57 Old Apr 13th, 2014, 9:51 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

While the job itself is quite intimidating you can do it if you are mechanically inclined and take your time. There is a lot of help here on the forum and you can ask questions if you get stuck. Also you migh be able to borrow some of the "special" tools that some members have made themselves.
Oh, and you can host a tech session so some local guys can show and cheer you on while drinking your beer!
Having a lift is great, and a pair of jackstands and some lumber will necessary.
Now if your bike is your daily transportation you may not have the luxury of time so taking it to the dealer may be your best choice, albeit an expensive one.
There is somewhere here a shopping list for parts that is quite good.
Best of luck and keep posting so we can follow your progress...

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post #4 of 57 Old Apr 13th, 2014, 9:53 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Just did mine. Not at all hard (for me anyway)

Just a lot of bits and pieces to take off and then put back on and it takes a lot of time.

Yes, a lift makes it easier, I did mine without one. Just get creative to support the bike when lowering the engine/transmission.

B D R
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post #5 of 57 Old Apr 13th, 2014, 11:22 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

As stated, if you're organized, and take your time, you can do it. I've done a couple. I helped Kenny (BlauBeeMr) with my Parts List, and he and Cfell went the extra distance by documenting the major teardown sections. The parts list is also contained on this document.

Click Here.

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post #6 of 57 Old Apr 14th, 2014, 7:46 am
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Re: Another Clutch

Please check out my videos on Transmission rebuild and clutch replacement. It just takes time and R&R or parts. You can do it!

2000 K1200LT-C "Tsukune"
2013 Honda NC700X "Moka"

Kirk Johnson

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post #7 of 57 Old Apr 15th, 2014, 9:27 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

I'm not much of a poster on the forum, but with the assistance of the people here - It's a blast doing the work yourself. As already said: Organize, Patience, Clean, Ask Questions, "Just a big model"!!

When all was done I had one major problem: forgot to plug in the heated seat for my wife. Really screwed up big! Next time I'll spend the extra $1500. NOT!

Steve
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post #8 of 57 Old Apr 16th, 2014, 11:30 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

CoachA, please check for a private message near the upper right corner of this page.

I hope a clutch is not in my LT's future for a long time. At 31K, with judicious clutch practices, we're probably safe.
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post #9 of 57 Old Apr 17th, 2014, 9:59 am Thread Starter
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Re: Another Clutch

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Originally Posted by MGMcAnick View Post
CoachA, please check for a private message near the upper right corner of this page.

I hope a clutch is not in my LT's future for a long time. At 31K, with judicious clutch practices, we're probably safe.
You have mail.

Ron Allan
Crystal River, FL
IBA 41994
VBA 291

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post #10 of 57 Old Apr 17th, 2014, 1:34 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Take lots of pictures as you go. Helps a ton with the little things, like wiring and switches.
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post #11 of 57 Old Apr 17th, 2014, 8:17 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Just finished my clutch job and too it for a ride. Will need to bleed a little more air out of the clutch. It was fine when I left the house, now takes a couple of pumps to get it to disengage.

Root cause of failure was the slave cylinder. Yes, drilled it for a weep hole while it was apart.

Was a relatively easy job, just time consuming. Spent an hour or more looking for a missing plug, turns out it was the O2 sensor still on the the exhaust system out in another shed.

Had the gas tank on and found I had missed plugging one of the fans in (right side) take the tank back off.

Think the most time consuming task was dealing with the body panels.

Took the opportunity to clean when putting it back together. Anti seized all the bolts/screws that went into dissimilar metal (a steel bolt into the aluminum frame).

Wouldn't care to try to do it on the side of the road but wouldn't hesitate to go at it again if I had to. Just couldn't justify paying someone to do it this close to tax day.

Might go and ride it to South Dakota next month.

B D R
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post #12 of 57 Old Mar 12th, 2015, 3:58 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

I also have to replace the clutch on my '07 LT. I've have the BMW Service Manual (sometimes a help, sometimes not). I'm at the point where it is telling me to remove the Throttle Valve Rail, which you apparently must do to be able to tip the engine so the trans can be removed. This is presenting a problem. It appears that the fuel injection rail is in the way and I've tried to remove it but I can't seem to find out how. I've removed the 2 bolts that hold it to the engine, the gas lines and the vacuum lines but it still will not come off. I've read several forums on clutch removal and some say you only have to loosen the fuel injection rail, but then you can't get to the screws that hold the throttle valve stubs. I could use some help here. The rest of the job seems like basic stuff, they just put stuff where you can't get to it and I don't want to break something.

thank you for any help

Joe
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post #13 of 57 Old Mar 12th, 2015, 4:20 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Have you watched Kirk's video to see if what your looking for is there?
I have as yet not had to get that far into my bike (knock on wood), but that would be my first stop. There is a link to his Youtube channel in one of the previous posts in this thread.
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post #14 of 57 Old Mar 12th, 2015, 5:42 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Hi Buff, I don't see any posting by anyone named Kirk. Any idea where it might be?
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post #15 of 57 Old Mar 12th, 2015, 5:55 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

he is post 6 link on the bottom kirk is his real name

Regards Linton
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post #16 of 57 Old Mar 12th, 2015, 6:03 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

yeah, I've seen those. They go from taking all the body parts of to him telling you what to remove but not showing how to remove it. That's what the BMW Service Manual does. I'm trying to find out just how I'm supposed to remove the screw clamp on the third port since the screw faces the front of the bike and the throttle cable is in the way.
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post #17 of 57 Old Mar 12th, 2015, 6:12 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

when you drop the tranny down if you do it carefully there is no need to take them off.
the the top of the tranny gets stuck and is hard to clear, but if you are like me and they all popped off under tension they can be put on easily and re clamped after the tranny is reinstalled

Regards Linton
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post #18 of 57 Old Mar 12th, 2015, 6:29 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Hey Linton (axle)... Is that where we just loosened the 4x metal straps on the breather tubes and allowed the throttle body to slide slightly out, and on reinstalling they just slid back in an we re-tightened the metal straps?

Chris
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post #19 of 57 Old Mar 12th, 2015, 6:31 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

thats my take on the op question could be wrong , usually are LOL

8 days to go
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Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



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post #20 of 57 Old Mar 12th, 2015, 9:46 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Most just remove the air box as that will give you enough room. Also replace the two front M10 engine mount bolts (one at a time)with similar length 1/4 bolts as it will allow you to swing the engine/transmission side to side as you lower it to clear the frame sides. You won't have to drop it as far to get the transmission off.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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post #21 of 57 Old Mar 13th, 2015, 11:12 am
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Re: Another Clutch

Yep those are the things I'm talking about. So as I understand it from this point I just need to remove all the wires from the starter motor and alternator, remove the 2 front engine bolts (one at a time) and replace them with 1/4" bolts so there is room to move the engine, take out the transmission securing bolt and lower the engine and remove the trans. Any other tips? This has been a great source of info. Thank you all.

Joe
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post #22 of 57 Old Mar 14th, 2015, 4:32 am
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Re: Another Clutch

I think you are confused just a liitle, got me there too for a while, you don't (replace) the engine bolts, the 1/4 inch bolts just allow the motor to swing easier, 1/4 inch bolts are not metric m10. You will refit the original m10 bolts when finished reinstalling the tranny.

Regards Linton
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post #23 of 57 Old Mar 14th, 2015, 10:21 am
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Re: Another Clutch

Hi Linton,

I should have said substitute with 1/4" bolts while working on the transmission. As it turns out all I ended up doing is loosening the right side bolt, taking out the transmission mounting bolt and everything dropped down to where I could pull the trans off. I'm not sure why the Service Manual and other threads have you remove all the other stuff. I never was able to remove the throttle rail, fuel rail or the left side engine bolt (there is no way to access the nut for that bolt). In any case the trans is out and it's onto the clutch this morning.
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post #24 of 57 Old Mar 14th, 2015, 10:27 am
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Re: Another Clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrowlandesq View Post
Hi Linton,

I should have said substitute with 1/4" bolts while working on the transmission. As it turns out all I ended up doing is loosening the right side bolt, taking out the transmission mounting bolt and everything dropped down to where I could pull the trans off. I'm not sure why the Service Manual and other threads have you remove all the other stuff. I never was able to remove the throttle rail, fuel rail or the left side engine bolt (there is no way to access the nut for that bolt). In any case the trans is out and it's onto the clutch this morning.
I have not replaced a clutch ... yet, but it is in my near future. My only concern is that something gets overstressed this way (wire, hose, etc.). Maybe not and the shop manuals aren't always right, but often they have good reason for recommending what they recommend. A part could get damaged and you might not know it until it fails in downtown nowhere.

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post #25 of 57 Old Mar 14th, 2015, 10:47 am
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Re: Another Clutch

I did loosen the fuel rail bolts so there is nothing pulling on it. I was able to loosen the rear most screw on the clamp for the throttle box but it isn't touching anything either. I know it says to loosen, or remove the engine bolts but I have no idea how to loosen the nut on the one on the left side. I removed the radiator on that side but still can not access the nut to hold it while I loosen the hex bolt. I was going to take the front section of the frame off but that wouldn't have helped because where it is bolted to the engine there is a flange that covers the area where the nut is. The only thing I could think of is a very thin box wrench that is bent at about a 60 degree angle that might be able to be slid in from the engine side of that nut. I don't have one and there is not super secret BMW tool as far as I can see. If anyone has taken this bolt off or loosened it I'd love to know what you used to hold the bolt. Unless the 2007 LT is built differently than all the rest?
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post #26 of 57 Old Mar 14th, 2015, 4:20 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrowlandesq View Post
Hi Linton,

the left side engine bolt (there is no way to access the nut for that bolt).
It can be done you just have to look for the path. I have done it on every clutch job I have done. Just have to slip an open end wrench behind the coolant elbow on the cylinder head. Guess it is easier to do if the air box is off. The air box could impact the frame at the rear when you drop her down. I usually just pop it off as it allows for a good inspection of the breather tube.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #27 of 57 Old Mar 15th, 2015, 12:23 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Thanks John. I wasn't able to get a wrench onto the bolt but the engine dropped down far enough to get the trans off last night. I'll be removing the clutch this morning. I forgot to ask of it is absolutely necessary to replace the housing cover and housing? I was told to look for damage on the cover but I'm not sure what kind of damage I'll be looking for. From the outside it looks fine. I know I have to remove the hex nut to take the housing off to replace the thrust washer. So I'll check that when it's off.
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post #28 of 57 Old Mar 15th, 2015, 12:27 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Oh, and there's also a lubricant paste that I've seen in the Illinois BMW group videos. I can't seem to get the name of it.
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post #29 of 57 Old Mar 15th, 2015, 4:18 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Ok one seriously worn out clutch is out. I just have to the hex nut off and pull the housing and remove it. So far I haven't broken anything or misplaced anything. I'm hoping it all goes back together.
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post #30 of 57 Old Mar 15th, 2015, 5:30 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14wntr View Post
Please check out my videos on Transmission rebuild and clutch replacement. It just takes time and R&R or parts. You can do it!
BTW, thank you for the videos, I just did my clutch and while I have been a mechanic for 20+ years, the videos helped me have an idea of what I was doing before I started and what to look out for.

With these videos, anyone with mechanical abilities can do this job.

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post #31 of 57 Old Mar 15th, 2015, 10:09 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

The cover is actually the fly wheel and the the next part after the disk is the pressure plate. Those two only need to be replaced if there are heat checks and cracks. Other wise you can re-use them. New cover bolts (8) must be used as well as the 30 mm nut. There is an o-ring behind that washer under the nut. Best to replace it with a Viton o-ring 19x4mm.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #32 of 57 Old Mar 15th, 2015, 11:56 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

www.illinoisbmwriders.com Go to Maintenance videos .Click on K bikes.

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post #33 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2015, 9:11 am
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Re: Another Clutch

The grease I use in the videos is called Staburags. You can find it in small quantities on ebay. Thank you for the nice comments!
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post #34 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2015, 9:34 am
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Re: Another Clutch

Just remember there is usually a forum member near you that would most likely come over and help you if you get stuck and give you some encouragement. Also this forum will help you every step of the way if need be, including giving, loaning or selling you special tools or parts.

Good Luck.

Scott
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post #35 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2015, 10:27 am
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Re: Another Clutch

I've attached some photos of what the Service Manual describes as the Clutch Housing Cover, the flywheel. It's scored pretty bad but there are no cracks that I can see. Does the scoring require replacement or should it only be replaced if there are cracks in it?

Another Clutch-20150316_071220.jpg

Another Clutch-20150316_070933.jpg

Another Clutch-20150316_071006.jpg

Another Clutch-20150316_071035.jpg

Another Clutch-20150316_071125.jpg
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post #36 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2015, 10:56 am
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Re: Another Clutch

Those are the worst I have seen based on the grooves. I would replace them. You will not get good clutch life if you reused them.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #37 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2015, 11:05 am
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Re: Another Clutch

I've got a new one on the bench. Now I just have to find the Staburags. It looks like Ebay is the only place to get it.
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post #38 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2015, 11:21 am
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Re: Another Clutch

Can Castrol Paste White T (the replacement for Optimoly MP3) be used instead of Staburags?
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post #39 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2015, 5:08 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

I use a mixture of Honda moly 60 & antisize

Patric Blackman
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2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #40 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2015, 8:30 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Just don't use much.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #41 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2015, 10:09 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Help! I had a main rear seal fail and the clutch started to slip. Tore it down put in new seal and checked the clutch plate. It was 6mm thick so cleaned it with brake cleaner then put it back in. I did not resurface the pressure plate. Put bike back together as per service manual. Went for a ride with the wind blowing 20mph head on. Shifted to 6th gear and the tach jumped from 3500 at 70 mph to 5000. I am sure the clutch was slipping. The hand clutch feels the same as when the bike was new. Everything went together great and was torqued as per the manual. Nothing is leaking and I did not take the hyd line off the slave cylinder. No extra parts left over from the tear down and reassembly. All I can figure is I should have changed the clutch plate with a new one. There was some blue spots on the pressure plate but not bad. Does anyone have any thought before I tear it down again and replace the clutch plate with a new one.
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post #42 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2015, 10:17 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Don't give up yet. Get out there and really smoke the clutch with some 2,500 - 3,000 rpm take offs in first or second gear. That should get the glaze off the clutch you cleaned but I'll bet did not scuff with coarse sand paper before you put it back in. Then let it cool well and gently take off, run up through the gears and get to about 70 in top gear and do a hard roll on of the throttle. If it does not slip then you are home free.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #43 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2015, 11:01 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

I don't have much to lose at this point. Thanks for suggestion. I am going to think about my problem and talk to people before I start to tear down again. What really bums me out is how good things were going. I never heard about scuffing the pressure plate before now. Thanks again.
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post #44 of 57 Old Mar 18th, 2015, 7:46 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Think about it as she was oil soaked and glazed over before you opened her up. I always give fiction material surfaces a good scuffing before I re-install. Helps them to "bed in" to the mating surfaces. It will end up with a glaze anyway but it will be recently created. Hope the burn in will help your issue.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #45 of 57 Old Mar 21st, 2015, 9:33 pm
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Smile Re: Another Clutch

I want to thank jzeiler for his suggestion. I tried it and it worked great. My clutch did not slip once on a hour ride. I was about to tear down the bike and replace the clutch pad. Thanks to everyone that answers our question. There is so much great knowledge at this web site. Thanks to all.
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post #46 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2015, 12:54 am
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Re: Another Clutch

Honda 60% moly works fine on splines. Optimoly is a glorified non moly antiseize. I have it on the shelf but use Dow moly. If someone needs special tools for this job I lend out the package. I mail it to you, you mail it back in a reasonable time frame (two months) with my postage in the box. I also have plenty of Viton Orings, the 4x19 for the seal to the clutch housing in the area of the rear main seal. This is the one that leaks oil when it drys out. Drill a 1/16" or so hole in the bottom of the intermediate piece below the clutch for an oil weep hole and one in the bottom of the clutch slave cylinder mount area. The clutch one will keep clutch fluid from building up and going down the throw out rod to the friction disk if the slave cylinder fails. These holes will help if there is ever a problem. But once you have installed a Viton Oring you will never open this again for oil problems. I always send one in the tool package (Viton Oring), but if someone needs one, I'll send you one. This is the part that causes the problem. The factory one drys out, gets hard and starts leaking. When your in there I suggest you change out your crank case breather hose. It too is old. I find the long way is generally the short way many times. Take your time, think, take tons of photos. I remove the air box and then the throttle body group. The upper clamps need to be removed, difficult but can be done with some thinking. This is a 8 on the scale of 10 difficulty job in my opinion. But the shop charges plenty. There are parts that need to be purchased new for the job, bolts and nuts. Look on MAX parts fiche at your bike for hints. You also need to look beyond those photos of serious marks on the clutch pressure faces above, those were toast obviously, but you need to check your plates with a straight edge across the total face to see if they are dished. Ten thousanths dish is trash. beech
Here is a good review and pictures of the job. It is long and detailed job but with a Clymer book and the web you can get through it.
GregRS's journey into seal territory - I-BMW.com

Beech
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post #47 of 57 Old Mar 26th, 2015, 2:16 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Thank you to everyone for all the help with the clutch job. After many hours of work (make that days) the new clutch is in, the transmission is back and I'm putting all the other stuff back on the bike.

I took lots of photos, however, the one I took of the starter motor wires before removal didn't come out as sharp as I need to see where the wires go back. So much for that Ansel Adams School of Photography I found on the back of the matchbook. There are 3 wires, the thick brown one with the thinner brown one coming off it. I am sure they go to the gold colored post on the front of the starter (nearest the transmission) and the frame. There is a thick black wire, which I'm pretty sure is a ground wire that I think goes to the silver post on the side of the starter. If anyone can tell me if this is correct could someone let me know.


Another Clutch-20150326_110201.jpg

Another Clutch-20150326_110253.jpg
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post #48 of 57 Old Mar 26th, 2015, 8:01 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

The brown wire was a ground on my 05, but I don't know where the smaller ground wire would go. The black wire should be the starter positive.

05 Dark Graphite LT
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post #49 of 57 Old Mar 26th, 2015, 8:03 pm
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Re: Another Clutch

Here is where the grounds go. The big one is on the top of the tranny at the starter and the other one is on a structure behind the tranny (frame - did not have to undo the little one).

Next time it is much easier to undo the starter wire at the tie point behind the battery vs. on the starter itself (I know too late now).

Yes the big black wire goes to the starter.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #50 of 57 Old Mar 27th, 2015, 2:53 am
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Re: Another Clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Here is where the grounds go. The big one is on the top of the tranny at the starter and the other one is on a structure behind the tranny (frame - did not have to undo the little one).

Next time it is much easier to undo the starter wire at the tie point behind the battery vs. on the starter itself (I know too late now).

Yes the big black wire goes to the starter.
thanks jzeiler, does that black wire in my first photo go to that post at the side of the starter housing or to the same post as the big brown wire?
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