Low speed left to right oscillation... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 16 Old Apr 1st, 2014, 7:53 pm Thread Starter
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Low speed left to right oscillation...

Replaced the rear Metzeler with a Bridgestone 020 Battleax 79v rated. The Metzler front tire has plenty of miles left so I chose to leave it on and wear it out.
The rear Stone mounted up fine. The beads popped into place on both sides like they should. Checked the concentric lines on the tire with the rim and everything is as it should be.
I aired the rear to 48psi and the front to 44psi. The bike handled terrible. couldn't hold a line. Looked up the suggested air pressure and dropped the rear to 46psi and the front to 36psi. Much better.
The problem that I am experiencing now is that upon initial take off, the bike has a shuddering effect, a wobble if you will, from side to side until the bike gains some speed. It seems to oscillate in the same manner as the shape of the tread design of that new Stone. However, it seems as though the problem is up front. The bike also wants to wander at speed and is easily upset by crosswinds. It has me concerned. The only change in the bike is that new tire. Handled and felt fine prior to the Stone.
It's an 05. The rear wheel balanced out perfectly. Lug nuts were torqued to spec. Any thoughts?

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post #2 of 16 Old Apr 1st, 2014, 7:57 pm
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

Sounds like you have a bad tire. There have been a number of posts with issues just like yours over the years. I had a friend of mine that had the same issue, he replaced both tires and wobble was gone.
Btw, lots of folks here run the same mix you have with no issues.

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post #3 of 16 Old Apr 1st, 2014, 8:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

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Originally Posted by johnbaker15 View Post
Sounds like you have a bad tire. There have been a number of posts with issues just like yours over the years. I had a friend of mine that had the same issue, he replaced both tires and wobble was gone.
I guess that I'll have to find a Bridgestone rep somewhere and see what he'll do for me.
Chelmsford huh? I used to travel I-495 on my way to points north and back from time to time. I would stop at "Skips Diner" for a meal and a cup of Joe quite frequently. Had an adjacent parking area where you could park a trailer truck.

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post #4 of 16 Old Apr 1st, 2014, 9:39 pm
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

I just did the exact same thing last week - replaced a worn ME880 rear with a BT020 and my front Metz is 2/3 worn out (16,000 Kms) but not at all cupped or flattened off in the centre. The bike rides fine. I am running 44 psi rear and 38 psi front. My new rear tyre was manufactured in week 51, 2013 (tyre marking 5113). Please advise the actual condition of your front tyre, is it cupped or flattened off ? The contact patch at the rear will have changed so it is possible the front tyre behaviour is now having a different influence on the bike.

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post #5 of 16 Old Apr 1st, 2014, 10:04 pm
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

Years ago I had a similar problem where I detected, at first, a very slight low speed oscillation in stop and go traffic below, say a few miles per hour with very light touch on the grips. I tried all the remedies and looked at everything but could not find the problem for many miles.

In my case the front tire was defective. After the ordeal came to an end I remembered that late the season before I had hit a pothole in city traffic going around a bus.It was so hard and abrupt that both mirrors popped off..

Eventually the tire delaminated in about 100 miles of high speed riding. Did not change very much throughout the issue. After demounting the tire and with very close inspection looking at the inside damage and relating it to the outside there was a spot just off the center line with a dime sized pimple. My guess is that the tread had that small imperfection from the very start of slow speed wobble. Check your front tire very carefully...

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post #6 of 16 Old Apr 1st, 2014, 10:22 pm
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatStrat View Post
Chelmsford huh? I used to travel I-495 on my way to points north and back from time to time. I would stop at "Skips Diner" for a meal and a cup of Joe quite frequently. Had an adjacent parking area where you could park a trailer truck.
Skips is gone, now a bank and a couple other small places the parking area is now a dry cleaner and a now closed dive shop. Skips would be a great RTE if it was still there. Next time you are going through drop me a line we can stop in at the dunkin across the street from where Skips was.

Good luck with the tires.

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1979 Suzuki GS1000E
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post #7 of 16 Old Apr 2nd, 2014, 2:24 pm
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

This happened to me just prior to my final drive failure. It's a '99 and had approx. 25k miles.
Good luck.
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post #8 of 16 Old Apr 3rd, 2014, 9:16 am
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatStrat View Post
Replaced the rear Metzeler with a Bridgestone 020 Battleax 79v rated. The Metzler front tire has plenty of miles left so I chose to leave it on and wear it out.
The rear Stone mounted up fine. The beads popped into place on both sides like they should. Checked the concentric lines on the tire with the rim and everything is as it should be.
I aired the rear to 48psi and the front to 44psi. The bike handled terrible. couldn't hold a line. Looked up the suggested air pressure and dropped the rear to 46psi and the front to 36psi. Much better.
The problem that I am experiencing now is that upon initial take off, the bike has a shuddering effect, a wobble if you will, from side to side until the bike gains some speed. It seems to oscillate in the same manner as the shape of the tread design of that new Stone. However, it seems as though the problem is up front. The bike also wants to wander at speed and is easily upset by crosswinds. It has me concerned. The only change in the bike is that new tire. Handled and felt fine prior to the Stone.
It's an 05. The rear wheel balanced out perfectly. Lug nuts were torqued to spec. Any thoughts?
I had the same experience. Put a new Bridgestone on the rear and noticed a wobble at 5 mph and then it disappears. Have a Metzler on the front with 4000 miles on it. Went back to the dealer, put another new rear tire on and still had wobble. The only thing different was rear tire and it feels like the wobble is in the front. Goes away over 10 mph. Only ridden a few times since last year and haven't noticed it, going out this weekend and will see if it's gone or I just don't notice it anymore.

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post #9 of 16 Old Apr 3rd, 2014, 10:31 am Thread Starter
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by triumphguy13 View Post
I had the same experience. Put a new Bridgestone on the rear and noticed a wobble at 5 mph and then it disappears. Have a Metzler on the front with 4000 miles on it. Went back to the dealer, put another new rear tire on and still had wobble. The only thing different was rear tire and it feels like the wobble is in the front. Goes away over 10 mph. Only ridden a few times since last year and haven't noticed it, going out this weekend and will see if it's gone or I just don't notice it anymore.
It might be anecdotal but I'm leaning toward the source of the problem is with the Stone based on your experience and that of others.
It goes through the wobble during decel as well which makes a smooth stop difficult.

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post #10 of 16 Old Apr 13th, 2014, 7:05 pm
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by triumphguy13 View Post
I had the same experience. Put a new Bridgestone on the rear and noticed a wobble at 5 mph and then it disappears. Have a Metzler on the front with 4000 miles on it. Went back to the dealer, put another new rear tire on and still had wobble. The only thing different was rear tire and it feels like the wobble is in the front. Goes away over 10 mph. Only ridden a few times since last year and haven't noticed it, going out this weekend and will see if it's gone or I just don't notice it anymore.
The exact same thing is happening with my 2001 (which isn't supposed to be fitted with the Bridgestone, but I did it anyway). My Metzeler front had the 45 mph wobble since it was installed, but that has gone away and now has a slow-speed wobble. All other handling is normal. I assumed it was the front tire (it is significantly cupped) and ordered a new Bridgestone front. Will post however it turns out, probably about a week from now.
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post #11 of 16 Old Apr 13th, 2014, 10:56 pm
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

Would not hurt to check the rear drive for play as the pivots could be worn. My 05 developed a wallowing in the corners over time and the small taper bearing had come loose and wore about 1/2 mm off the spindle and there was noticeable play in the rear drive.

John
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post #12 of 16 Old Apr 13th, 2014, 11:07 pm
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

Could be you have an internally out-of-round tire. They look perfect, balance out, yet have ride issues. Impossible to diagnose without an x-ray machine. If that's the problem, over time you will see less tread on one side of the tire, 180 degrees out from a deeper spot.


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post #13 of 16 Old Apr 15th, 2014, 8:11 am Thread Starter
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Would not hurt to check the rear drive for play as the pivots could be worn. My 05 developed a wallowing in the corners over time and the small taper bearing had come loose and wore about 1/2 mm off the spindle and there was noticeable play in the rear drive.
Not to long ago I replaced the transmission output shaft seal. When reassembling the swing arm, as per the manual, I torqued the FD adjustable pivot pin to 7Nm.
Last week while searching for the source of the oscillation I found that when I did the 3 o'clock/9 o'clock test on the FD, that there was movement and a slight clunk. I remembered the Chris Harris video where he said that when he was being trained at BMW, he was told that 7Nm was to conservative. He was taught that it should be 10-12Nm.
I readjusted the pivot pin to 11Nm. The movement and clunk went away. Handles much better.
I think what you said Dean could also be a contributing factor. At very low speed, I can still feel the slight oscillation. Probably the tire going bad. I'm thinking that a loose FD and a bad tire combo was to blame. I'm sure one would enhance the other.

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post #14 of 16 Old Apr 15th, 2014, 10:43 am
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

I do rotate the drive up and down when I do the torque and I re-do it several times just to make sure the bearing is seated. At 7 Nm there should be no movement so it sounds like your bearing was not seated initially. I have the Rubber Chicken bronze bearings and if I go 7 Nm it feels like it is binding so I actually use a little less and go by feel.

Having said all that I see no issue with your 11 Nm.

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post #15 of 16 Old Apr 17th, 2014, 7:57 am
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatStrat View Post
Replaced the rear Metzeler with a Bridgestone 020 Battleax 79v rated. The Metzler front tire has plenty of miles left so I chose to leave it on and wear it out.

The problem that I am experiencing now is that upon initial take off, the bike has a shuddering effect, a wobble if you will, from side to side until the bike gains some speed. It seems to oscillate in the same manner as the shape of the tread design of that new Stone. However, it seems as though the problem is up front.
I posted earlier that I had similar experience with a new Bridgestone rear and lightly used Metzeler front. The wobble was slow but noticeable from a stop to 2-3 mph and from 2-3 mph to a stop. Before changing the rear tire, I had the 45 mph high-frequency wobble that has been reported here by many people. That HF wobble disappeared with the new Bridgestone rear.

I replaced the front Metzeler with a Bridgestone BT-020, drove around a little bit, and the low-frequency wobble seems to be gone. So, I am back to wobble-free for now and very happy about it.

I have seen several posts here about running the Bridgestone rear with the Metzeler front over the past few years, and thought I would try it. Funny how as soon as I did that, and noticed the oscillation/wobble, there was a thread started about this very thing.

Original Metzelers did not wobble, but the three sets of Metzelers since then all did the 45 mph thing. Several people have posted that the wobble is not a big deal if you just keep your hands on the handlebars, but I've never bought that argument. It's not supposed to do that, and just because I can damp it manually doesn't mean it's OK. The wobble may be pronounced at 45 mph, due to some harmonic frequency being reached, but the problem that is causing it is always there, and is wearing out the tire(s), bearings, damper, etc. Plus, it annoys me...
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post #16 of 16 Old May 20th, 2014, 7:51 am
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Re: Low speed left to right oscillation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatStrat View Post
Replaced the rear Metzeler with a Bridgestone 020 Battleax 79v rated. The Metzler front tire has plenty of miles left so I chose to leave it on and wear it out.
The rear Stone mounted up fine. The beads popped into place on both sides like they should. Checked the concentric lines on the tire with the rim and everything is as it should be.
I aired the rear to 48psi and the front to 44psi. The bike handled terrible. couldn't hold a line. Looked up the suggested air pressure and dropped the rear to 46psi and the front to 36psi. Much better.
The problem that I am experiencing now is that upon initial take off, the bike has a shuddering effect, a wobble if you will, from side to side until the bike gains some speed. It seems to oscillate in the same manner as the shape of the tread design of that new Stone. However, it seems as though the problem is up front. The bike also wants to wander at speed and is easily upset by crosswinds. It has me concerned. The only change in the bike is that new tire. Handled and felt fine prior to the Stone.
It's an 05. The rear wheel balanced out perfectly. Lug nuts were torqued to spec. Any thoughts?

Have a spare rear rim and put the Bridgestone on it and having same issue as above. Front Metz only has 2K on it. Other rear rim has Metzeler on it, no issues with it on the bike. Running similar preasures on both rears (47 to 48). This is a feeling that is most annoying. Running at speed dosn't have the wobble feeling. Only at less than 5 - 10 mph. Maybe getting rid of the Bridgestone if can't resolve. Was really wanting the Bridgestone to work out due to wet handling aspects.


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