where does your clutch engage? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 16 Old Mar 15th, 2014, 4:15 pm Thread Starter
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where does your clutch engage?

Finished buttoning up my 01 after installing new spring plate. Bled the clutch system and took it for a spin.
Seems like my clutch engages sooner now that before. I'm engaging after releasing the lever about 3/4". Is that normal? Or sooner than it should? It seems to release completely, as it shifts smoothly, and goes into 1st or 2nd without grinding the gears.
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post #2 of 16 Old Mar 18th, 2014, 6:07 pm
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

check what setting your clutch lever is on . If 1 then change to 2 or 3 to give a longer throw and move the release point farther forward.
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post #3 of 16 Old Mar 18th, 2014, 6:17 pm
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

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Originally Posted by cluainsi View Post
check what setting your clutch lever is on . If 1 then change to 2 or 3 to give a longer throw and move the release point farther forward.
When bleeding the clutch or flushing the brakes change the lever setting to 3 to give a longer throw and pump more fluid with each squeeze.
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post #4 of 16 Old Mar 26th, 2014, 12:46 am
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

One time I drove my self crazzzy!!

I changed the brake fluid one day. Another day I changed the clutch fluid and could not figure out what I had done wrong?!! It just didn't feel like the brake did!!

After redoing everything a few times, I pulled the clutch lever all the way, started her, backed out of my garage and went for a ride--worked perfectly.

don't know why I knew the clutch had to feel like the brake did?

Bob

"He was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
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post #5 of 16 Old Mar 26th, 2014, 10:58 am
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

Mine did the same thing after I changed out the clutch and slave cyl.

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post #6 of 16 Old Mar 26th, 2014, 11:52 am
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

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Originally Posted by 14wntr View Post
Mine did the same thing after I changed out the clutch and slave cyl.
As did mine... Can be explained by the thicker clutch plate / way how spring plate works.

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post #7 of 16 Old Mar 26th, 2014, 12:12 pm Thread Starter
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

OK, thanks guys. I had it out for a spin the other day, and it's probably just going to take some getting used to - the engagement point. Not a bid deal, just thought maybe I'd done something else wrong.
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post #8 of 16 Old Mar 26th, 2014, 1:22 pm
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

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Originally Posted by C-A-D View Post
As did mine... Can be explained by the thicker clutch plate / way how spring plate works.
Having a decent understanding of his hydraulic brakes and clutches work, I am having a hard time contrmplating this. The engagement point should not change from thick to thin clutch disk unless the travel of the slave cylinder is insufficient for the normal range of thickness.

Same thing for brakes. The point your brakes engage should not depend on how worn the shoes/pads are.

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post #9 of 16 Old Mar 26th, 2014, 1:38 pm
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Having a decent understanding of his hydraulic brakes and clutches work, I am having a hard time contrmplating this. The engagement point should not change from thick to thin clutch disk unless the travel of the slave cylinder is insufficient for the normal range of thickness.

Same thing for brakes. The point your brakes engage should not depend on how worn the shoes/pads are.
The difference is the clutch has a return spring that pulls the pressure plate away from the friction disc whereas the brakes do not have a positive release, only the runout of the disc to push the pads away.
So the pulling the clutch lever results in a full stroke of the cylinder regardless of the thickness of the friction disc and that will result in an earlier engagement when the disc is thicker than when it is worn out.

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post #10 of 16 Old Mar 28th, 2014, 7:01 pm
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

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Originally Posted by dukey33 View Post
The difference is the clutch has a return spring that pulls the pressure plate away from the friction disc whereas the brakes do not have a positive release, only the runout of the disc to push the pads away.
So the pulling the clutch lever results in a full stroke of the cylinder regardless of the thickness of the friction disc and that will result in an earlier engagement when the disc is thicker than when it is worn out.
I haven't had an LT apart, but every other clutch I have seen has the clutch diaphragm spring clamping the pressure plate against the clutch disk, not pulling it away.

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post #11 of 16 Old Mar 28th, 2014, 8:02 pm
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
I haven't had an LT apart, but every other clutch I have seen has the clutch diaphragm spring clamping the pressure plate against the clutch disk, not pulling it away.
You are right but when you pull the lever the rod goes forward against the diaphragm spring (3) compressing it and this releases the pressure plate (4) from the disk. When you release the lever then the spring (3) returns to normal state pushing the pressure plate (4) into contact with the disk (5) and traps it against the "flywheel" (6).

Just like any car, only backwards. Leave it to BMW.
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #12 of 16 Old Mar 29th, 2014, 9:32 am
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

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Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
You are right but when you pull the lever the rod goes forward against the diaphragm spring (3) compressing it and this releases the pressure plate (4) from the disk. When you release the lever then the spring (3) returns to normal state pushing the pressure plate (4) into contact with the disk (5) and traps it against the "flywheel" (6).

Just like any car, only backwards. Leave it to BMW.
Thanks, John, the principle of operation is still the same as most other clutches I've worked on. I still disagree with the others who suggest the clutch lever position at engagement should vary with friction disk thickness.

Yes, the position of the slave cylinder piston and actual rod will vary with disk thickness, but the lever position should not. As the clutch wears, the volume of fluid in the slave will decrease as the piston moves away from the pressure plate as the disk gets thinner, but this just means that the fluid level in the master cylinder will increase as the excess fluid gets pushed into the master cylinder reservoir when the port is uncovered as the master cylinder piston goes to it's starting position.

The length of stroke of the slave cylinder is determined by the master cylinder. Since it moves the same amount of fluid each time you squeeze the lever, the slave will move the same distance each time. Since the reference point for the start of the slave cylinder stroke is the fully engaged position the friction point during clutch engagement is also referenced to the fully engaged position.

The master cylinder doesn't know the starting position of the slave cylinder. It only pushes it a certain distance and releases it. That stroke length will always be the same and will always start at the same reference which is the fully engaged position. So, the clutch engagement point at the clutch lever should not vary with clutch disk thickness since the hydraulics self adjust to let the slave cylinder continuously retract as the disk wears.

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post #13 of 16 Old Mar 29th, 2014, 10:37 am
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

The lever engage position is much different with a new clutch vs a worn clutch disc.

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post #14 of 16 Old Mar 29th, 2014, 11:23 am
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

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The lever engage position is much different with a new clutch vs a worn clutch disc.
Why? Makes no sense to me and that has not been true for other vehicles I own or have owned. Just trying to understand what is unique about the LT clutch. And understand why the LT doesn't self adjust like other hydraulic vehicles do.

My 94 Chevy clutch works the same as when new and it's original clutch had 146,000 miles of snow plowing. It has to be well worn, but engagement point is unchanged. My 06 Sonata has 98,000 on original clutch with no change in engagement.

Just not seeing the difference with the LT from the diagram a John posted.

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post #15 of 16 Old Mar 29th, 2014, 12:20 pm
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

all my vehicles have been standards - new disk and pressure spring feels quite different from worn out clutch - more bite at contact - might feel like it is engaging differently at lever

diaphragm spring fingers do not lose strength evenly/equally and can affect feel

Gary
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post #16 of 16 Old Mar 29th, 2014, 12:39 pm
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Re: where does your clutch engage?

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Originally Posted by gary45 View Post
all my vehicles have been standards - new disk and pressure spring feels quite different from worn out clutch - more bite at contact - might feel like it is engaging differently at lever

diaphragm spring fingers do not lose strength evenly/equally and can affect feel
That's a good point. I definitely see how a stiffer spring would feel different. No question there.

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