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post #1 of 29 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 6:46 pm Thread Starter
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trouble removing swing arm

Having trouble getting these two bearing bolts out of the swing arm. Got the bearing caps out fine, then actually broke a 14mm socket trying to get these lose.
Any idea what I'm doing wrong? I'm at the point of rounding out the heads. Tried heat, breaker bar, and impact gun. Nothing.
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post #2 of 29 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 7:13 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

Hey. I don't mean to sound. Confirm that it is not a reverse thread?

Mike


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post #3 of 29 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 7:36 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

Lefty loosey and they will POP when they break loose. I used a 1/2" drive breaker bar and jumped on it. A steady pull/push just won't seem to break them loose. Both are right hand threads on an '03 K1200lt and I'm betting they are all the same.
Good luck.
OH and heat might help. Never used it on mine.


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post #4 of 29 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 7:43 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

I feel your pain . Sometimes it comes right off , other times no comment.

So try using some Kroll or PB blaster on the threads . It is a must to use a 6 pt socket impact grade ,and be square on the stud. I would continue to use heat.
Good Luck !
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post #5 of 29 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 9:06 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmlt View Post
Having trouble getting these two bearing bolts out of the swing arm. Got the bearing caps out fine, then actually broke a 14mm socket trying to get these lose.
Any idea what I'm doing wrong? I'm at the point of rounding out the heads. Tried heat, breaker bar, and impact gun. Nothing.
How much heat? It can take 350 to soften red Loctite. I'd say more heat and maybe some grinding compound in your socket to avoid stripping the bolt. And use an impact socket for extra strength.

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post #6 of 29 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 9:11 pm Thread Starter
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

Thanks guys. Tried heat, both flame and electric heat gun, but no dice. I'm going to run into town tomorrow and get a good impact socket, and I'll try the grinding compound. Have it "soaking" in penetrating oil now.
What really pisses me off is that I'm the frickin' idiot that put them in on the last job. Don't think I used loctite on those. Then again, I don't know what I had for breakfast today, so who knows.
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post #7 of 29 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 9:24 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

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Originally Posted by fpmlt View Post
Thanks guys. Tried heat, both flame and electric heat gun, but no dice. I'm going to run into town tomorrow and get a good impact socket, and I'll try the grinding compound. Have it "soaking" in penetrating oil now.
What really pisses me off is that I'm the frickin' idiot that put them in on the last job. Don't think I used loctite on those. Then again, I don't know what I had for breakfast today, so who knows.
How tight did you torque them? I haven't removed my swing arm yet, but I removed my FD twice and had used red Loctite on the pivot pins. The pins broke loose with just a breaker bar after heating to just 100 C. Didn't even need the 2' pipe I bought just in case.

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post #8 of 29 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 10:29 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

I still have some of the custom made reinforced 14 mm sockets for the swing arm pivot pins for sale.
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post #9 of 29 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 10:49 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

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Originally Posted by fpmlt View Post
Thanks guys. Tried heat, both flame and electric heat gun, but no dice. I'm going to run into town tomorrow and get a good impact socket, and I'll try the grinding compound. Have it "soaking" in penetrating oil now.
What really pisses me off is that I'm the frickin' idiot that put them in on the last job. Don't think I used loctite on those. Then again, I don't know what I had for breakfast today, so who knows.
You probably made a mistake when torqueing the OTHER (left side bolts; for instance the threaded ring is supposed to be only 10 Nm or so, NOT 160 like the right side threaded ring) side bolts, when putting it back together. That causes this side (looks like the right) to actually be much tighter than it should be. I have done about 6 clutch jobs on various LTs, and this problem cropped up on the SECOND clutch job on a friend's bike. The guy who torqued the left side threaded ring way over tightened, which caused the exact same problem you have (including rounding off the bolt on the right side), a Gorilla tight right side Pivot Pin.

We had to replace the pivot pin (part number 33 17 2332148 on the '01 we did it on - should be the same for all LT's) because it got rounded off as we struggled.

Had to buy a special socket that is made for removing rounded bolts (use once and throw away). Took a FOUR FOOT Breaker Bar to get it off!

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
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'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
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post #10 of 29 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 11:26 pm Thread Starter
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

The photo I posted is the left side of the bike - only because that was the side I happened to have the lights on. I followed the service manual closely, as well as all the information I could glean off this site, when I put it back together. Pretty sure I got the order right, but then again I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
I have a tool that will take out a rounded nut/bolt head, but I'll only use that as a last resort.
Like I said, I'll keep soaking in penetrating oil, get a good socket, and have my way with it tomorrow. We shall see.
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post #11 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 7:35 am
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

When I busted the nut loose on my 03 I had to use a half inch breakover and a 3 foot cheater pipe. I sounded like a gunshot when it broke loose. I wouldn't use an impact. It's too easy to beat the head off a fastener like that. The socket I made my tool from was a thick wall black impact socket. You might want to get someone to help hold the socket straight while trying to break it. I had to stand on my cheater pipe...............

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post #12 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 10:29 am
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

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Originally Posted by rattler50 View Post
You might want to get someone to help hold the socket straight while trying to break it. I had to stand on my cheater pipe...............
That's what we had to do. One guy kept things aligned - second guy (a skinny little 250 lb. dude) had to stand on the 4 ft cheater pipe.

Brian
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post #13 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 1:45 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

It has been a crap shoot for me. Most of them just pop right off but I broke a snap-on flank drive socket on mine that last time and had to use an external easy out to get it free and I was the one that had put it back on that last time. No Loctite just tight. I have not had an issue since I got one of Dave's super sockets. A good socket here is a must. If you can get one side but not the other you can get the swing arm out but you have to pull the cross member and exhaust. That is how I finally got mine off.
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post #14 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 1:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

Thanks John. Those are the tools I'll resort to if I run out of options.
I'm going to try making a socket that will sleeve the rounded bottom, but will grab the bolt head. Probably just weld a tube, pipe or larger socket to the bottom of a 14. That should steady the 14 while I put my big butt to work.

And my wife says my big as is worthless. I'll show her.
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post #15 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 1:58 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

I also use a three foot length of aluminum pipe on my breaker bar and give it a "snap". Like I said a good socket is needed. The first one I rounded the head with a impact 14 mm socket that I thought was robust, it wasn't. The second one was a standard snap-on flank drive, split it down the side.

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post #16 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 2:04 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

I realize the majority here may disagree with me, but this is why I like using medium grade thread locker on fittings like these. I usually take five or ten pounds off the torque settings and use the blue juice on them. That prevents thread corrosion and makes it easy to remove later on. As an alternative, a dose of anti-seize compound on the threads at full torque might be helpful. I think part of the issue with these is the bolt design. I believe the hex head base on the bolt gets involved and sticks to the flat where it makes contact. That is supported by my observation that as soon as the bolt broke free, it turned freely in the threads, making it unlikely that the real issue was thread corrosion. Perhaps a little assembly lube or blue thread locker under the bolt head would be an idea.


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post #17 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 2:20 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

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It has been a crap shoot for me.
Well, there's your proof. If it can happen to John, it can happen to anyone!

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post #18 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 3:29 pm Thread Starter
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

Well, I got 'em off. Now my question for John is: how do I re-torque them now that they're in this condition?
I looked them over and it seems that I did not locktight them, but instead applied a thin layer of grease. I guess that I incorrectly assumed that they would come off easier next time.
THAT clearly did not work out well.
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post #19 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 3:56 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

They're about $35 each new, right? You could get about $15 each on eBay I'm guessing!

I guess the one thing we can takeaway from these multiple ordeals is that we now know why there are never "Swing Arm Failures" on the LT!

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
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post #20 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 5:00 pm Thread Starter
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

Just looking at the parts fiche, they look to be $45 ea.
I'm pretty certain that my swing arm (rear wheel fork) is more highly engineered than the sum total of my Harley!
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post #21 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 6:13 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

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Originally Posted by fpmlt View Post
Well, I got 'em off. Now my question for John is: how do I re-torque them now that they're in this condition?
I looked them over and it seems that I did not locktight them, but instead applied a thin layer of grease. I guess that I incorrectly assumed that they would come off easier next time.
THAT clearly did not work out well.
That explains it. Lubricating a fastener will roughly double the effective torque value as compared to dry threads. So you effectively applied 320 Nm of torque. Most torque values are specified for clean and dry threads. Lubricating such fasteners is a BAD, VERY BAD idea. Difficult removal is the least of the potential problems. A more serious problem is failure of the fastener or the parts being fastened due to the much higher applied stress. You are lucky.


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post #22 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 6:17 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

Looking at those I think if mine ever comes apart again I'll put assembly lube under the flange and blue Loctite on the threads.


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post #23 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 7:03 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

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Looking at those I think if mine ever comes apart again I'll put assembly lube under the flange and blue Loctite on the threads.
I put mine on the way they came from the factory and the way Tom Cutter recommended: clean, dry, with a few drops of red Loctite.

It is odd that the BMW CD and the Clymer manual don't spec the Loctite, but mine had not been apart since it was new and it clearly had Loctite on both sides. However, heated per the manual, both sides came loose with just a 1/2" breaker bar and no real drama.

My feeling is: if it ain't broke; don't fix it! And clean, dry threads with a couple drops of Loctite is clearly not broke!

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post #24 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 7:43 pm Thread Starter
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

Shall we just call this a $90 lesson?

I got the slipping clutch out. Originally it started to slip in 4th and 5th, but last ride out I got it to slip and 1st and 2nd. I replaced it about 30-40K ago. Replaced everything but the diaphragm spring plate. When I just pulled it, it was bone dry, so no contamination. There was pressure on the slave valve. Good or bad?
Here's what the clutch plate mic'ed out at. Seems like it's still good. Anyone agree/disagree?
Leaves me with the thought that the diaphragm spring plate must be the culprit.
Would appreciate thoughts and/or input here.
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post #25 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 7:49 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

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Shall we just call this a $90 lesson?

I got the slipping clutch out. Originally it started to slip in 4th and 5th, but last ride out I got it to slip and 1st and 2nd. I replaced it about 30-40K ago. Replaced everything but the diaphragm spring plate. When I just pulled it, it was bone dry, so no contamination. There was pressure on the slave valve. Good or bad?
Here's what the clutch plate mic'ed out at. Seems like it's still good. Anyone agree/disagree?
Leaves me with the thought that the diaphragm spring plate must be the culprit.
Would appreciate thoughts and/or input here.
I don't have the thickness spec in front of me, but I would agree that the spring is the likely culprit with a dry disk of greater than minimum thickness. Unless the slave is somehow not retracting completely when the clutch is engaged.

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post #26 of 29 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 9:14 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

That looks to be about 0.230 or 5.8 mm. Well ahead of the 0.181 or 4.6 mm limit. This is real close to the new dimension that someone recently posted of 6.0 mm for a new disc. If the slave was at about 1/4 inch away from the mount when it no longer had any force on it, that too would be consistent with a good clutch disc. Looks like the spring on the old clutch got hot and distorted.

I think Dave measured his and found a significant difference between new and old springs. Don't forget new bolts to put it all back together.

Oh on the pivot pins, next time put them in dry. Grease allowed you to over torque them (which is exactly what I did before). Mine go in dry from now on.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #27 of 29 Old Mar 4th, 2014, 1:19 am Thread Starter
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

The 6 bolts that hold the disk in place between the plates?
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post #28 of 29 Old Mar 4th, 2014, 1:28 am
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

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Well, I got 'em off. Now my question for John is: how do I re-torque them now that they're in this condition?
No worries! These just go on finger tight!

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post #29 of 29 Old Mar 4th, 2014, 7:36 pm
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Re: trouble removing swing arm

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The 6 bolts that hold the disk in place between the plates?
Yes - one time use.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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