Thought it was the rear seal but what's this... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 27 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 9:57 pm Thread Starter
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Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

I discovered an oil drip from the rear of the engine and clutch housing and naturally assumed the rear seal was failing (65,000 miles on my '05 lt). Decided to make an adventure out of doing the repairs myself with the help of manuals and great video on YouTube, etc. Upon removing the throttle bodies I discover the rear intake is leaking like crazy.

What are the thoughts of those gurus attending? Should I continue to do the clutch and rear seals, trans seals, etc. due to the mileage? Love riding and working on this bike! Riding is a secure experience and working on it an adventure of new skills and experience!

Steve
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post #2 of 27 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 10:17 pm
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

A common issue is the cracking of the PCV hose assembly. That then leaks oil on top of the engine. Many have replaced this over the years. Part number 11151465009. Approx. $85.

From your pictures, the assembly has been separated. Clean it off and look for splits.

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post #3 of 27 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 10:19 pm
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

It is the crankcase breather tubing that has deteriorated and is the source of your oil. Mine was no where near that bad. Unless your clutch has really been slipping (5th gear test), I would stop where you are. Fix the breather tubing and clean everything up. Now if you have the parts and have already removed everything else from the swing arm back you might as well go ahead and go in.

The biggest source of oil leaks on the clutch is the o-ring on the output shaft (not the rear seal) and at 65 K that sucker is brittle. Best to replace with a viton version of that 19 x 4 o-ring.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
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post #4 of 27 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 10:30 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

I think I should proceed with the removal of the trans and clutch since i have gone this far into her. Do you replace the trans seals even if they are not leaking?
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post #5 of 27 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 10:51 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

Why is the oil so prevalent at the #4 intake?
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post #6 of 27 Old Feb 24th, 2014, 11:44 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

The only splits I can find are at the crankcase end of the breather hose (see pictures). I even blew compressed air into the manifold section and sprayed soapy water to look for any bubbles.

Is it really possible that these splits would allow that much oil as to weep all over the top of the engine and drip down and around the clutch housing etc.?

Appreciate your comments. Steve
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post #7 of 27 Old Feb 25th, 2014, 12:29 am
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumber101 View Post
The only splits I can find are at the crankcase end of the breather hose (see pictures). I even blew compressed air into the manifold section and sprayed soapy water to look for any bubbles.

Is it really possible that these splits would allow that much oil as to weep all over the top of the engine and drip down and around the clutch housing etc.?

Appreciate your comments. Steve
Yes. It's possible. That hose pulls out all the blow-by in the crankcase and is literally coated with oil on the inside when the engine is running. Then it takes up all the fumes into the airbox when the engine is shut down. I suspect it contributes to the sidestand/smoke issue as well since mine hasn't smoked a bit since I re-tooled mine and lowered it relative to the throttle bodies. Time will tell on that issue though. Not quite ready to claim that it's a cure.


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post #8 of 27 Old Feb 25th, 2014, 11:21 am
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

Pull the intake stubs and check the O-rings between them and the head.

Part Number 11611465169

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #9 of 27 Old Feb 25th, 2014, 9:35 pm
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

#4 is alway the oily one. Can't say why, it just is.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #10 of 27 Old Feb 25th, 2014, 10:51 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

I wondered about the intakes. I'll pull the number four tomorrow and report back. I bought the PCV manifold today and ordered a slave cylinder unit since the swing arm if off. If the clutch push-rod is clean I'll put it back together. If leaking, I'll go forward with the clutch job. I'm have a blast with this! Thanks for your advice!!!!! Steve
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post #11 of 27 Old Feb 26th, 2014, 1:12 am
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
It is the crankcase breather tubing that has deteriorated and is the source of your oil. Mine was no where near that bad. Unless your clutch has really been slipping (5th gear test), I would stop where you are. Fix the breather tubing and clean everything up. Now if you have the parts and have already removed everything else from the swing arm back you might as well go ahead and go in.

The biggest source of oil leaks on the clutch is the o-ring on the output shaft (not the rear seal) and at 65 K that sucker is brittle. Best to replace with a viton version of that 19 x 4 o-ring.
+1. I bought my '01 in '06. It had only 9,000 miles on it, but the breather tubing was already shot! I learned right away "what a great hobby working on the LT can be"!

I say that seriously. I never got pissed off if anything ever broke; just part of the hobby.

Brian
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Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #12 of 27 Old Feb 26th, 2014, 1:35 am
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

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Originally Posted by sumber101 View Post
I wondered about the intakes. I'll pull the number four tomorrow and report back. I bought the PCV manifold today and ordered a slave cylinder unit since the swing arm if off. If the clutch push-rod is clean I'll put it back together. If leaking, I'll go forward with the clutch job. I'm have a blast with this! Thanks for your advice!!!!! Steve
What do you mean with "clean push-rod"? It goes through the transmission and is supposed to be oily when you remove it.

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post #13 of 27 Old Feb 26th, 2014, 4:32 am
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

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What do you mean with "clean push-rod"? It goes through the transmission and is supposed to be oily when you remove it.
Wrong, it should always be dry.

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post #14 of 27 Old Feb 26th, 2014, 8:09 am
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

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Wrong, it should always be dry.
+1

The rod goes through the hollow transmission input shaft, should never be oily.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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post #15 of 27 Old Mar 1st, 2014, 6:41 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

Well, even after thinking the proverbial "if it aint broke, don't fix it" I decided to pull the trans and at least look into the clutch housing and am I glad I did. Black oil at the bottom of the housing (see pic). Amazing that the clutch was dry to the touch. No doubt it was a matter of time...
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post #16 of 27 Old Mar 1st, 2014, 7:00 pm
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

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Originally Posted by sumber101 View Post
Well, even after thinking the proverbial "if it aint broke, don't fix it" I decided to pull the trans and at least look into the clutch housing and am I glad I did. Black oil at the bottom of the housing (see pic). Amazing that the clutch was dry to the touch. No doubt it was a matter of time...
Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then...

Seriously, good thing you looked. Rear Main Seal is gone, if that's engine oil. Was the clutch slipping?

This may be the "Luck Play" of the century. The rear main is something like $35 - $40. If you can save the clutch, that's several hundred.

If any oil at all got on the clutch, it may be toast though.

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
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'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #17 of 27 Old Mar 1st, 2014, 7:21 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

Clutch was not slipping. With this much work to disassemble, and 65,000 miles, I think I'll do the clutch anyway.
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post #18 of 27 Old Mar 1st, 2014, 8:48 pm
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

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Clutch was not slipping. With this much work to disassemble, and 65,000 miles, I think I'll do the clutch anyway.
Good thinking!

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
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post #19 of 27 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 2:11 am
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

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Originally Posted by dshealey View Post
+1

The rod goes through the hollow transmission input shaft, should never be oily.
Hmm... You might be correct here but wondering if the hollow transmission shaft is always dry, why is there shaft seals at both ends of it?

EDIT: Yes - you are of course right here - dry it should be! My memory served poorly! Glance to the pictures helped to recollect how it is set up... SORRY for wrong information...

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post #20 of 27 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 6:22 am
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

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Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then...

Seriously, good thing you looked. Rear Main Seal is gone, if that's engine oil. Was the clutch slipping?

This may be the "Luck Play" of the century. The rear main is something like $35 - $40. If you can save the clutch, that's several hundred.

If any oil at all got on the clutch, it may be toast though.
The seal does not fail often, but the O-Ring on the shaft does! Always replace both the O-ring and seal. If possible get a Viton O-ring instead of the stock one. It is Metric 19X4. One place to get them: http://www.theoringstore.com/index.p...ducts_id=19200

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post #21 of 27 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 1:39 pm
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

Sumber, what will you be replacing while you're in there?
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post #22 of 27 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 2:33 pm
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

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Originally Posted by dshealey View Post
The seal does not fail often, but the O-Ring on the shaft does! Always replace both the O-ring and seal. If possible get a Viton O-ring instead of the stock one. It is Metric 19X4. One place to get them: http://www.theoringstore.com/index.p...ducts_id=19200
Do most buy an OEM replacement main seal or is there a better aftermarket part as with the o-ring?

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post #23 of 27 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 2:44 pm
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

Good question. I'll be watching this as I'm tearing mine apart starting today. OH BOY!!
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post #24 of 27 Old Mar 2nd, 2014, 9:23 pm
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

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Do most buy an OEM replacement main seal or is there a better aftermarket part as with the o-ring?
I think most just use the OEM seal. I have not heard of anyone substituting the seal, just the O-ring, as it is usually the O-ring that fails anyway, not the seal. The stock O-ring gets brittle and cracks. Viton will last MUCH longer.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #25 of 27 Old Mar 3rd, 2014, 11:56 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

I have yet to disassemble the clutch so not sure if more than the friction plate will require replacement. For sure the main seal and o-ring. I purchased a new slave cylinder as well. I'll post pictures of the clutch internals later this week.

I heard in one of the videos from IllinoisBMWriders about a moly lube, but could not understand the name. Suggestions?

And I agree that working on this thing is a fun adventure. Go slow the first time, ask questions, make some tools, etc. Oh yea, I still have to put it back together!?!. Go slow....

Thanks for all of the advice! Steve
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post #26 of 27 Old Mar 4th, 2014, 1:19 am
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey View Post
I think most just use the OEM seal. I have not heard of anyone substituting the seal, just the O-ring, as it is usually the O-ring that fails anyway, not the seal. The stock O-ring gets brittle and cracks. Viton will last MUCH longer.
In my case the seal was still OK but the O-ring was all chewed up and I had to post a picture on the forum asking what that "thing" was...
I followed the advice given here and got a viton replacement.

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post #27 of 27 Old Mar 5th, 2014, 12:26 am Thread Starter
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Re: Thought it was the rear seal but what's this...

Dang, that is chewed up! Viton it is!
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