Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880 - BMW Luxury Touring Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 71 Old Feb 22nd, 2014, 9:16 am Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Wesley Chapel, fl, USA
Posts: 68
Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

My 01 had 880's on it when I bought it. Lousy, heavy handling. I replaced the front with an Avon Storm 2 ultra, and that really helped lighten the bike up. I was going to try to ride out the mostly new 880 rear, but it decided to split and separate from the carcass in 5 places. Had I continued to ride, I'm sure chunks were coming flying out, so time for the Avon Storm 2 rear.

WOW.

It feels like the bike lost 400 pounds. I could tell it as soon as I started to roll it out of the shop. When riding, it's very neutral, rolls in and out of corners with ease, and surprisingly the low speed handling (2 up) is much better. No skittishness at low speed, everything is better. Closer to a sporty - tourer every day.

I know there's a few schools of thought on tire selection; The most common one is "they're all the same, I want the cheapest / longest lasting. Maybe a chin-chin or ken-poo". IMO tires are your MOST IMPORTANT choice of safety equipment. they are all you have between you and the asphalt. They are your wet weather safety and your braking distance. They are your evasive handling salvation. Why anyone would opt for less than the best handling / braking tires is beyond my comprehension. Sure, some may last longer, but I can change tires; changing a crashed body? Not so much. JMO, Steve

Last edited by Steve_in_Sunny_Fla; Feb 22nd, 2014 at 12:59 pm.
Steve_in_Sunny_Fla is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 71 Old Feb 22nd, 2014, 11:36 am
Senior Member
 
james216's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Garfield Hts, Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,384
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

I'll take more $$$ tire and less miles any day. The Storm 2's are the way to go. I want the bike to do what I want, when I want. I'll replace them every 8-9K Thank you. I never did like the Metzelers. They are slick as s*^t in the rain and too much money for what they are. But to each their own.

2004 K1200LT. Big Mama
1999 Suzuki Intruder VL1500LC. Betty Lou.
I'm a 4 percenter.
james216 is offline  
post #3 of 71 Old Feb 22nd, 2014, 2:09 pm
Senior Member
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Loxahatchee, Fl, USA
Posts: 986
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

+++++++1 with Steve. The only tire i will use. great in the rain, South Florida rain too.
There is a new storm front that I'm using now. Check the tire threads.

Zeke

45 years riding and still more places to see.
2002 K1200LT
2016 R1200RT
IBA # 41935
Zeke is offline  
 
post #4 of 71 Old Feb 22nd, 2014, 3:13 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe, Northern hemisphere
Posts: 594
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

72W ? Does Avon have rated tire for LT?

Born to be wild so why not

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
C-A-D is offline  
post #5 of 71 Old Feb 22nd, 2014, 3:19 pm
Senior Member
 
hallzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gold Country, CA, USA
Posts: 2,571
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Dayum. I see that FL & OH riders are getting 8k - 9k out of a set of Avons? I was lucky to get 4-5k here in the CA Sierra Nevada twisties!

Love the Avons - nice and sticky in all conditions. Rain and tar snakes have much less effect with the Storm 2's than 880's.

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
IBA #31242 (SSx2, BB, BBG)
MOA #136148

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
hallzee is offline  
post #6 of 71 Old Feb 22nd, 2014, 3:43 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
JNW003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Northridge, California, USA
Posts: 1,392
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Just out of curiosity, after reading so many tire threads, are the Avon Storm 2 Ultras 79V-rated?

On one of my trips over the summer, I stopped in Denver and replaced a Bridgestone front tire (which was not load rated for the LT), with a Metzler 58V-rated tire. I was quite pleased with how it improved handling on my way up to Yellowstone and back to the LA area. Although I am not an aggressive rider, the thought crossed my mind that some of the difference in handling perceptions you have experienced may be similar to mine, when comparing a worn out tire to a brand new one.

For what it's worth, I just bought a Bridgestone 79V-rated tire for the rear, to replace a Metzler 880 73H-rated tire. For peace of mind, I will feel safer riding on tires designed to handle the LT's weight as I speed down the interstate fully loaded during 100+ degree days.
JNW003 is offline  
post #7 of 71 Old Feb 22nd, 2014, 3:44 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shelton, CT, USA
Posts: 2,341
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by C-A-D View Post
72W ? Does Avon have rated tire for LT?
Yes, But only for US '99 to '04 models.

Jack D. (Southern Connecticut)
2001 Black LTC
2015 Blue R1200GSA
jackd is offline  
post #8 of 71 Old Feb 22nd, 2014, 4:26 pm
Member
 
francis83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Trans en Provence, , France
Posts: 54
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

I don't know why Avon site says that the Ultra Storm is only for the 99-04 model.
I have a 07 and I just change the front by a PR3 and the rear by the Ultra storm. This last one is 79V and it's strengthened, specifications required by BMW. So here it's allowed because of that. So I have it!
Many guys have the same mounting and are very happy about all the feelings that give to ride securely and serenely. One has a PR4 and we wait for his feeling.
For the miles (around 300) I travelled, I can say that I ride very better than with a Metz front and Bridg rear. Front is very easy to lead and it's finished to brace myself!!

Tomorrow trip with my belloved over Nice and Grasse I will tell you if the feeling is the same than alone!

Don't hesitate, ME 880 is a dinosaur!!

The maint point is invisible for the eyes

2007 K1200LT (actual)
1997 HONDA PC800 (SOLD)
1993 HONDA CBR1000F (SOLD)
1993 TRIUMPH SPRINT 900 (Explosed engine)
1989 KAWASAKI KLR650 TENGAI (SOLD)
1986 KAWASAKI KLR 600 (SOLD)
1980 YAMAHA DTMX 125 (SOLD)
1969 HONDA 750 K0 (SOLD)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
francis83 is offline  
post #9 of 71 Old Feb 22nd, 2014, 7:04 pm
Enjoy The Ride
 
saddleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Huntersville, NC, USA
Posts: 3,888
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

I'll take a tire that last more miles over a tire that sticks to the road anytime on a LT. It is up to me to decide how I want to ride & how much I'll push the bike. I have no experience with a front Avon tire But I have changed a few rear Avon tires & I will never have one on my LT for any hard riding because of the soft sidewall.

I had one rider that brought me a rear tire that had a quick air deflation on a Avon & he said it was scary & he had to get a trailer to get the bike home. At least the ME880 & the BT020 tires made for the K1200LT will be ride-able after a rapid deflation.

Dave Selvig
2004 Black LT
2000 Canon Red LT



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
saddleman is offline  
post #10 of 71 Old Feb 22nd, 2014, 8:47 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,150
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddleman View Post
I'll take a tire that last more miles over a tire that sticks to the road anytime on a LT. It is up to me to decide how I want to ride & how much I'll push the bike. I have no experience with a front Avon tire But I have changed a few rear Avon tires & I will never have one on my LT for any hard riding because of the soft sidewall.

I had one rider that brought me a rear tire that had a quick air deflation on a Avon & he said it was scary & he had to get a trailer to get the bike home. At least the ME880 & the BT020 tires made for the K1200LT will be ride-able after a rapid deflation.

I'm with you, Saddleman. I want stiff sidewalls in case the air gets out.

And I have 40,000 miles on ME880s riding in the northeast in temps from 30 to over 100 and we certainly have our share of bad pavement, tar snakes and rain. Never had a problem with the Metz tires in any of these conditions. I drag the pegs (solo) and center stand (two-up) quite frequently. The 880s easily handle all the lean angle the LT can generate.

I had a flat on my 87 Kaw Voyager and had to ride it 20 miles home as it was a Sunday night and nothing was open. The bike actually handled pretty well at up to 40 MPH and my wife was with me. It ruined the tire, but the rim was unscathed. I replaced it with a Michelin HiTour. I nearly mounted that tire with my bare hands. The sidewall was nothing like the Dunlop I replaced. That tire (a K491) was stiff and a bear to mount.

The Avon site isn't responding for some reason, but I wonder if these are radials? That would be consistent with an earlier comment about them being listed only for model years up through 2004. And would explain the flexible sidewalls. Not sure I'd want to be on radials if the air got out.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is online now  
post #11 of 71 Old Feb 22nd, 2014, 10:18 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Wesley Chapel, fl, USA
Posts: 68
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

apparently there's some misunderstanding of the avon rear - it is a 79W reinforced radial tire, with a much stiffer sidewall. I know, first hand, I mount my own tires. Steve

Last edited by Steve_in_Sunny_Fla; Feb 22nd, 2014 at 11:01 pm.
Steve_in_Sunny_Fla is offline  
post #12 of 71 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 4:11 am
Senior Member
 
K100Dennis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Railton, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 876
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

(To my knowledge) there are just 2 tyres designed and manufactured specifically for the rear of the LT - Bridgestone Battalax BT020 and Metzeller Marathon ME880. Both these tyres carry the raised branding on the sidewall "REINF". The tyre is made with reinforced sidewalls to allow the bike to be safely controlled to a stop in the event of rear tyre deflation. Both these tyres are BIAS belted construction for 2005 models onwards. Both these tyres are also rated 79V (load carrying & speed). Fitting any rear tyre which doesn't meet the above criteria on our bikes is, by definition, compromising a designed safety feature of the bike as a whole. My opinion only, others may have a different view.

Dennis
1987 Yamaha TY250R
1991 Aprilia Climber 280
1988 K100RT (the pack horse)
2005 K1200LTE Light yellow metallic
K100Dennis is offline  
post #13 of 71 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 5:26 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe, Northern hemisphere
Posts: 594
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by K100Dennis View Post
(To my knowledge) there are just 2 tyres designed and manufactured specifically for the rear of the LT - Bridgestone Battalax BT020 and Metzeller Marathon ME880. Both these tyres carry the raised branding on the sidewall "REINF". The tyre is made with reinforced sidewalls to allow the bike to be safely controlled to a stop in the event of rear tyre deflation. Both these tyres are BIAS belted construction for 2005 models onwards. Both these tyres are also rated 79V (load carrying & speed). Fitting any rear tyre which doesn't meet the above criteria on our bikes is, by definition, compromising a designed safety feature of the bike as a whole. My opinion only, others may have a different view.
Agree. Just wondering this deviation before/after year model 2005. As far as I know there shouldn't be any difference in the models requiring different tires.

Born to be wild so why not

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
C-A-D is offline  
post #14 of 71 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 8:33 am
Senior Member
 
FatStrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Lake Helen, Florida, USA
Posts: 231
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by C-A-D View Post
Agree. Just wondering this deviation before/after year model 2005. As far as I know there shouldn't be any difference in the models requiring different tires.
Radials not recommended for 05 and up (revised front end geometry not conducive for radials). Radials or bias are okay for 04 and down. Avon offers proper load rated radials only. Not recommended for 05 and up (however some people do it anyway, shhhhhh!)

Friends know the song in your heart, and can sing it to you when you have forgotten the words.
FatStrat is offline  
post #15 of 71 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 2:10 pm
Enjoy The Ride
 
saddleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Huntersville, NC, USA
Posts: 3,888
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

The Avon's have changed since they first came out for the LT's & maybe the rear sidewall is stiffer now. The two I have changed were rather soft in the sidewall.

Dave Selvig
2004 Black LT
2000 Canon Red LT



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
saddleman is offline  
post #16 of 71 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 2:33 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,150
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddleman View Post
The Avon's have changed since they first came out for the LT's & maybe the rear sidewall is stiffer now. The two I have changed were rather soft in the sidewall.
Since the Avons are radials, I would be very surprised if the sidewalls are as stiff as a bias ply tire with the same load rating. Radials on cars, pickups and even 18 wheelers have much more flexible sidewalls than do bias ply tires. No reason to expect much difference on a motorcycle tire.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is online now  
post #17 of 71 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 2:46 pm
Senior Member
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Loxahatchee, Fl, USA
Posts: 986
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Info for all. From the Avon site.

MAKE: BMW

MODEL: K 1200 LT (K2LT) 1999 2003


Front Pressure: 2.5 bar (36psi)
Rear Pressure: 2.9 bar (42psi)


Technical Specifications

Storm 2 Ultra Front 90000001119 120/70ZR17 (58W) bw 3.5 3.50 - 3.75
Storm 2 Ultra Rear 90000001125 160/70R17 * 79V bw 4.5 4.25 - 5.00

Footnotes:
W = White Wall | WW = Wide White Wall | * = Reinforced | TT = Tube Type | MT90-16 replaces 130/90-16 | 140/90B16 replaces MU85B16

45 years riding and still more places to see.
2002 K1200LT
2016 R1200RT
IBA # 41935
Zeke is offline  
post #18 of 71 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 8:48 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Wesley Chapel, fl, USA
Posts: 68
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Info for all. From the Avon site.

MAKE: BMW

MODEL: K 1200 LT (K2LT) 1999 2003


Technical Specifications

Storm 2 Ultra Rear 90000001125 160/70R17 * 79V bw 4.5 4.25 - 5.00

Footnotes:
* = Reinforced
Thanks For posting that Zeke.

It amazes me that someone posts up their experience , size and specs of the tire, and someone else says "it doesn't exist" Do I need to take a picture of where the tire has "reinforced" on the sidewall and post it? Steve
Steve_in_Sunny_Fla is offline  
post #19 of 71 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 9:04 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,150
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_in_Sunny_Fla View Post
Thanks For posting that Zeke.

It amazes me that someone posts up their experience , size and specs of the tire, and someone else says "it doesn't exist" Do I need to take a picture of where the tire has "reinforced" on the sidewall and post it? Steve
Whether it exists or not depends on the year of the LT. The Avon does not exist for 2004 (Europe) and 2005 (USA) and later LTs. It is right there on their web site. It says "No fitment" for these years, so for the latter model years there are only two choices for the rear: Metz and Stone.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is online now  
post #20 of 71 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 9:18 pm
Senior Member
 
K100Dennis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Railton, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 876
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Whether it exists or not depends on the year of the LT. The Avon does not exist for 2004 (Europe) and 2005 (USA) and later LTs. It is right there on their web site. It says "No fitment" for these years, so for the latter model years there are only two choices for the rear: Metz and Stone.
Yep, Krekt Voyager. Dunno how many times it needs to be said !

Dennis
1987 Yamaha TY250R
1991 Aprilia Climber 280
1988 K100RT (the pack horse)
2005 K1200LTE Light yellow metallic
K100Dennis is offline  
post #21 of 71 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 10:25 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: West Valley, UT, USA
Posts: 414
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

I don't have enough understanding of the engineering to get into why BMW only recommends bias for '05 and later. Nor has anyone ever explained to my satisfaction why you can't mix bias and radials front to rear especially on a motorcycle. I understand not mixing them on the same axle.

I would never ride anything, no matter how many wheels, on a flat tire. This is a personal choice as most things are.

I am normally very frugal (read that as really cheap) and my first instinct was to stick with the 880 because of its longevity, but I had experienced a couple of near spills due to sprinklers hitting the pavement and some chip sealing, and read in another thread about the Avon being stickier. So I figured it was worth a try and I could always go back to the 880 if the Avon wore out to soon, however . . .

Having experienced the difference in handling between the 880 and the Avon. I'm with Steve, if I have to replace the Avon 3 times a year, the difference in handling is worth it. Yes a fast flat is scary, but only an occasional possibility in comparison to the constant hazards of wet patches and road repairs. I would rather call for help because I have a flat I can't ride home on than because I lost the bike on a corner at speed.
Buff8stuff is offline  
post #22 of 71 Old Feb 23rd, 2014, 10:42 pm
Senior Member
 
K100Dennis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Railton, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 876
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Regarding the possibility of a flat - you have no choice at that point in time, the bike needs to be brought to a stop. As for relying on tyre compounds and technology for safer cornering in the wet,........... well, I hope to never go there because I think that line is just too narrow. I'm happy for any rear tyre to wear reasonably well, not slip in the dry and be correctly rated for the bike, be that whatever the maker states and in our case it is REINF on the sidewall.

Dennis
1987 Yamaha TY250R
1991 Aprilia Climber 280
1988 K100RT (the pack horse)
2005 K1200LTE Light yellow metallic
K100Dennis is offline  
post #23 of 71 Old Feb 24th, 2014, 10:02 am
Senior Member
 
petevandyke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Posts: 1,741
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

The metzeler may have a stiffer sidewall, but it's hardly a "run flat" and has no additional bead retention. I had a metzeler completely delaminate at speed on my old RT, the thing was shredded by the time I stopped from highway speeds.

I've lost a lot of confidence on my LT the last two years, am probably not leaning it nearly as much as I could, and I wonder if it's my lack of faith in the tires (880s), one too many rear end slips/slides on tar snakes or changing road surfaces. Might be trying the Avons in a few thousand miles.

========================================
When life throws you a curve, LEAN INTO IT!!!
2000 R1100RT-P...R.I.P. "Old motorcycle"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2004 K1200LT "Lick and Tickle"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


FU*K Cancer. If I have one more MRI, I'll stick to the refrigerator door.
petevandyke is offline  
post #24 of 71 Old Feb 24th, 2014, 12:51 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,150
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buff8stuff View Post
I don't have enough understanding of the engineering to get into why BMW only recommends bias for '05 and later. Nor has anyone ever explained to my satisfaction why you can't mix bias and radials front to rear especially on a motorcycle. I understand not mixing them on the same axle.

I would never ride anything, no matter how many wheels, on a flat tire. This is a personal choice as most things are.

I am normally very frugal (read that as really cheap) and my first instinct was to stick with the 880 because of its longevity, but I had experienced a couple of near spills due to sprinklers hitting the pavement and some chip sealing, and read in another thread about the Avon being stickier. So I figured it was worth a try and I could always go back to the 880 if the Avon wore out to soon, however . . .

Having experienced the difference in handling between the 880 and the Avon. I'm with Steve, if I have to replace the Avon 3 times a year, the difference in handling is worth it. Yes a fast flat is scary, but only an occasional possibility in comparison to the constant hazards of wet patches and road repairs. I would rather call for help because I have a flat I can't ride home on than because I lost the bike on a corner at speed.
Mixing them front to back is probably worse than on the same axle. The dynamics of radials (stiffness and mass) are quite different from bias ply tires. Look up the equation for resonance of a mechanical structure and you will see that both stiffness and mass matter a lot. The suspension dynamics need to be tuned to the tires to avoid resonance conditions that could cause instability. This may only occur under very specific conditions, but it is likely that these conditions were encountered during testing, hence the radial prohibition on later model LTs.

Yes, it is your bike and your choice. And if you are confident you are smarter than the engineers at both BMW and Avon, live it up! Just ask your estate not to sue when you find the condition that causes resonance between the tire and suspension and the resultant tank slapper launches you into the grill of a Peterbilt.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is online now  
post #25 of 71 Old Feb 24th, 2014, 12:53 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,150
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by petevandyke View Post
The metzeler may have a stiffer sidewall, but it's hardly a "run flat" and has no additional bead retention. I had a metzeler completely delaminate at speed on my old RT, the thing was shredded by the time I stopped from highway speeds.

I've lost a lot of confidence on my LT the last two years, am probably not leaning it nearly as much as I could, and I wonder if it's my lack of faith in the tires (880s), one too many rear end slips/slides on tar snakes or changing road surfaces. Might be trying the Avons in a few thousand miles.
Run flat isn't the point. Remaining stable enough when flat to allow a safe stop is the point.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is online now  
post #26 of 71 Old Feb 24th, 2014, 1:56 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,150
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buff8stuff View Post
I don't have enough understanding of the engineering to get into why BMW only recommends bias for '05 and later. Nor has anyone ever explained to my satisfaction why you can't mix bias and radials front to rear especially on a motorcycle. I understand not mixing them on the same axle.

I would never ride anything, no matter how many wheels, on a flat tire. This is a personal choice as most things are.

I am normally very frugal (read that as really cheap) and my first instinct was to stick with the 880 because of its longevity, but I had experienced a couple of near spills due to sprinklers hitting the pavement and some chip sealing, and read in another thread about the Avon being stickier. So I figured it was worth a try and I could always go back to the 880 if the Avon wore out to soon, however . . .

Having experienced the difference in handling between the 880 and the Avon. I'm with Steve, if I have to replace the Avon 3 times a year, the difference in handling is worth it. Yes a fast flat is scary, but only an occasional possibility in comparison to the constant hazards of wet patches and road repairs. I would rather call for help because I have a flat I can't ride home on than because I lost the bike on a corner at speed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_resonance

Without going into a lot of detail, suffice to say that if your tires and your suspension have the same resonant frequency, things could get mighty interesting. And don't let the "spring constant" nomenclature throw you off. Pretty much EVERYTHING is a spring, even the heaviest steel I beam. It is just the magnitude of the constant that changes with structure or material.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is online now  
post #27 of 71 Old Feb 25th, 2014, 2:13 pm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880 vs Pilots

I replaced the OEM Bridgestones on my '07 LT with Avon Storms. I had headshake with the Bridgestones and serious front cupping. At slow speeds to stopping the worn Bridges were like driving a shopping cart. The replacement Avon front tire showed cupping at around 4k miles and did not solve the headshake issue. I replaced the Avon front tire with a Michelin Pilot and low speed/decel headshake was instantly gone and has not returned. Most everyone has said headshake was 'built in' to the LT. Handling at slow speeds was markedly improved. I will replace the rear Storm within a few more thousand miles...probably with a Pilot. I ride one up only; but with all this talk of load on LT tires I am nervous and jerky about tire failure. I've never owned a MC with so many tire issues.
ewingb is offline  
post #28 of 71 Old Feb 25th, 2014, 3:05 pm
Member
 
francis83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Trans en Provence, , France
Posts: 54
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880 vs Pilots

Unfortunately there is no any Michelin tyre for the LT rear. I have a Pilot road 3 front and Avon Ultra Strom rear and for me it's perfect!! I made 250 miles duo on Sunday on mountain and highway at elevated speed and nothing bad to report!!

If you always think to a potential failure or a potential accident stop to ride and go walking!!

Seriously, the main problem of all the forums is to make you hesitant or vague and you cannot decide yourself!! You are dependant of all the different feelings!! I can understand this "fear", I was exposed to!!

So make your own experience and try what you want and what you feel!!

And if you make some research, you will find there is not so much accident or failure on the LT. You will only find those who had a problem and they are not legion!!

The maint point is invisible for the eyes

2007 K1200LT (actual)
1997 HONDA PC800 (SOLD)
1993 HONDA CBR1000F (SOLD)
1993 TRIUMPH SPRINT 900 (Explosed engine)
1989 KAWASAKI KLR650 TENGAI (SOLD)
1986 KAWASAKI KLR 600 (SOLD)
1980 YAMAHA DTMX 125 (SOLD)
1969 HONDA 750 K0 (SOLD)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by francis83; Feb 25th, 2014 at 3:17 pm.
francis83 is offline  
post #29 of 71 Old Feb 25th, 2014, 6:50 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shelton, CT, USA
Posts: 2,341
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880 vs Pilots

Quote:
Originally Posted by ewingb View Post
I replaced the Avon front tire with a Michelin Pilot and low speed/decel headshake was instantly gone and has not returned.
My LT will have headshake if the tires are not balanced properly. Good enough is not good enough. Took me at least a half dozen front tire changes to figure that out. I always balance my own tires.

If your tire changer using a computerized tire balancer that is most likely the problem. You cannot guarantee that the machine has been set up or serviced or even handled properly. Some tires are easier to balance and sometimes you get lucky.

Jack D. (Southern Connecticut)
2001 Black LTC
2015 Blue R1200GSA
jackd is offline  
post #30 of 71 Old Feb 25th, 2014, 7:11 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,150
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880 vs Pilots

Quote:
Originally Posted by ewingb View Post
I replaced the OEM Bridgestones on my '07 LT with Avon Storms. I had headshake with the Bridgestones and serious front cupping. At slow speeds to stopping the worn Bridges were like driving a shopping cart. The replacement Avon front tire showed cupping at around 4k miles and did not solve the headshake issue. I replaced the Avon front tire with a Michelin Pilot and low speed/decel headshake was instantly gone and has not returned. Most everyone has said headshake was 'built in' to the LT. Handling at slow speeds was markedly improved. I will replace the rear Storm within a few more thousand miles...probably with a Pilot. I ride one up only; but with all this talk of load on LT tires I am nervous and jerky about tire failure. I've never owned a MC with so many tire issues.
I don't think head shake is built in to any bike. It is generally a result of worn parts or improper preload on steering stem bearings.

The LT does not have tire issues. It has issues with owners who don't buy the proper tires! Buy tires rated for the LT and you will have no more problems with tires than with any other motorcycle.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is online now  
post #31 of 71 Old Feb 26th, 2014, 11:07 am
Senior Member
 
petevandyke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Posts: 1,741
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

I've run mine up to a drag-limited max speed of 126 a couple times, never experienced this "built in headshake."

You want to experience headshake, take a pre-2005 Harley over 100.

========================================
When life throws you a curve, LEAN INTO IT!!!
2000 R1100RT-P...R.I.P. "Old motorcycle"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2004 K1200LT "Lick and Tickle"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


FU*K Cancer. If I have one more MRI, I'll stick to the refrigerator door.
petevandyke is offline  
post #32 of 71 Old Feb 28th, 2014, 11:42 am
Member
 
sparkx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: East Anglia, , England
Posts: 31
Garage
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Having being using Avon Storm II Ultras for the past year (8500M), I experienced a blowout in the rear tyre last month culminating in rapid deflation and followed by wallowing side to side whilst I pulled over to a safe refuge.
I'd picked up a complete 38g clip on wheel balance weight from a car, end on straight through the centre tread with only 1/4" showing what had gone in.
The biggest problem I had was not being able to put the bike on the centre stand due to the flat rear tyre. Anyhow I managed to pull the balance weight out and insert most of my puncture strings into the 1/2" split, pump the tyre up to 30psi and complete the leg of my journey for the day.
The balance weight managed to break the steel reinforcement wires rendering the tyre beyond repair. New Avon Ultra II Storm fitted @42psi.
sparkx is offline  
post #33 of 71 Old Feb 28th, 2014, 11:22 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 174
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

I just ordered a Pilot road 3 for the front and Avon Ultra Strom for the rear.
My Metzelers 880's are almost new(2k) miles. These are coming off before May 15 because I have a 5000 mile trip planned in June and want to leave on brand new tires.
Anybody want some almost new 880's?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

North Richland Hills, Texas (Ft Worth)

History:
2002 BMW K1200LT Green
2008 Honda ST1300 Red 20K miles, FOR SALE
2004 Honda Goldwing Standard restoration in progress
1981 Honda Goldwing Standard - Custom, Weber Carb FOR SALE
1977 Honda Goldwing Standard, ready for frame up restoration

Gone but not forgotten:
1983 Goldwing 1992 Goldwing 1994 BMW K1100LT 1994 Kawasaki KLX650 1989 Yamaha FJ1200. 1982 Honda 750SS. 1976 Honda CB550F. 1975 Honda CB350F. 1971 Honda CB350 twin. 1969 Yamaha DT250. 1971 Suzuki 185 Enduro. 1961 Vespa 125. 1959 Alstate scooter.
Handydude is offline  
post #34 of 71 Old Mar 1st, 2014, 2:10 pm
Senior Member
 
cbpip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Aberdeen, Md, USA
Posts: 324
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

PM sent


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


2002 K1200LTC Pacific -Blue moon Beemer


2007 VFR800 RWB Interceptor -current
84 Yamaha Venture Royal -departed
84 Honda 750 Interceptor- departed
76 Honda 750 four-departed
65 Pan head (gone)
72 Rickman 6 day Enduro

Too many farkles to list, if you can thinkem they maybe on it

BMWMOA # 189093
BMWBMW LOCAL CHAPTER Member
BMW MARS CHAPTER Member
BMWRA # 41568
cbpip is offline  
post #35 of 71 Old Mar 4th, 2014, 2:06 pm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880 vs Pilots

Francis83: Thanks for the reply. Pilot on front and Avon Storm on the rear is working just fine for me. Glad to see you like them as well.
ewingb is offline  
post #36 of 71 Old Mar 9th, 2014, 1:48 am
Lifetime Supporter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: West Valley, UT, USA
Posts: 414
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Okay, I give this thread has totally convinced me that running a mix of bias ply and radial tires is way to dangerous. Especially since these Metzlers can't keep a grip on a wet road.
So is every one that has radials on the front running the Michelin P3 or has anyone tried the Avons on the front? The Michelins run a few dollars more.
Buff8stuff is offline  
post #37 of 71 Old Mar 9th, 2014, 1:15 pm
Senior Member
 
lkchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 1,012
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

It's good to understand that there's a really big difference in the meanings of the words "recommend" and "specify."

BMW specifies.

An Alaska Air DC-9 went into the Pacific thanks to incorrect grease on the elevator jackscrew.

"Grease is grease" and "tars is tars" doesn't get it.

Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S
lkchris is offline  
post #38 of 71 Old Mar 9th, 2014, 2:47 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: West Valley, UT, USA
Posts: 414
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
It's good to understand that there's a really big difference in the meanings of the words "recommend" and "specify."

BMW specifies.

An Alaska Air DC-9 went into the Pacific thanks to incorrect grease on the elevator jackscrew.

"Grease is grease" and "tars is tars" doesn't get it.
BMW specifies the size and rating for the tire, not the brand.

Every-time the Avon tires come up there's a rash of people who believe they are smarter than everyone else hawking the Metzlers and Bridgestones as the only tires rated for the LT.

These same people then show their true Richard headedness by trying to insult the intelligence of anyone that doesn't agree 100% with them. No decent person would talk to another that way to their face, but in the age of the internet we just throw manners and respect right out the window.

Not to mention the lack of actually reading most of the thread or even the posts they respond to, or having knowledge of all the factors, then making all kinds of assumptions.

Isn't the anonymity of the internet such a social advancement!
Buff8stuff is offline  
post #39 of 71 Old Mar 9th, 2014, 2:50 pm
Member
 
francis83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Trans en Provence, , France
Posts: 54
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buff8stuff View Post
Okay, I give this thread has totally convinced me that running a mix of bias ply and radial tires is way to dangerous. Especially since these Metzlers can't keep a grip on a wet road.
So is every one that has radials on the front running the Michelin P3 or has anyone tried the Avons on the front? The Michelins run a few dollars more.
The guys I know and have the Avon front and Rear put 38 PSI front and 45 PSI rear. Personnally with the PR3 front 36 PSI and the Avon rear 42-43 PSI. I will try 38 and 45 to see if there is any change.

The maint point is invisible for the eyes

2007 K1200LT (actual)
1997 HONDA PC800 (SOLD)
1993 HONDA CBR1000F (SOLD)
1993 TRIUMPH SPRINT 900 (Explosed engine)
1989 KAWASAKI KLR650 TENGAI (SOLD)
1986 KAWASAKI KLR 600 (SOLD)
1980 YAMAHA DTMX 125 (SOLD)
1969 HONDA 750 K0 (SOLD)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
francis83 is offline  
post #40 of 71 Old Mar 9th, 2014, 3:11 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,150
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buff8stuff View Post
BMW specifies the size and rating for the tire, not the brand.

Every-time the Avon tires come up there's a rash of people who believe they are smarter than everyone else hawking the Metzlers and Bridgestones as the only tires rated for the LT.

These same people then show their true Richard headedness by trying to insult the intelligence of anyone that doesn't agree 100% with them. No decent person would talk to another that way to their face, but in the age of the internet we just throw manners and respect right out the window.

Not to mention the lack of actually reading most of the thread or even the posts they respond to, or having knowledge of all the factors, then making all kinds of assumptions.

Isn't the anonymity of the internet such a social advancement!
They do specify key things that matter to handling and stability such as bias ply vs. radial construction. If you check the Avon site, you will see that Avon also does not recommend the Storm for later model LTs. If you refuse to read and acknowledge the manufacturers fitment information, then you can hardly blame that on forum posters. Nice try though, speaking of lack of internet etiquette...

Have you actually visited the Avon site?

And, by the way, I would say this in person to anyone who asked about the correct tires for a given year LT or who said incorrect information. I am no more shy in person than I am online.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is online now  
post #41 of 71 Old Mar 9th, 2014, 4:54 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: West Valley, UT, USA
Posts: 414
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
They do specify key things that matter to handling and stability such as bias ply vs. radial construction. If you check the Avon site, you will see that Avon also does not recommend the Storm for later model LTs. If you refuse to read and acknowledge the manufacturers fitment information, then you can hardly blame that on forum posters. Nice try though, speaking of lack of internet etiquette...

Have you actually visited the Avon site?

And, by the way, I would say this in person to anyone who asked about the correct tires for a given year LT or who said incorrect information. I am no more shy in person than I am online.
THE PROBLEM IS ALL THE assUMPTIONS YOU MAKE. I NEVER SAID I HAVE A NEWER MODEL BIKE. AVON'S SITE DOES LIST MY MODEL YEAR.
If you would talk to another person in the condescending way you have addressed me here you must be one hell of a good fighter.
Buff8stuff is offline  
post #42 of 71 Old Mar 9th, 2014, 5:44 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,150
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buff8stuff View Post
THE PROBLEM IS ALL THE assUMPTIONS YOU MAKE. I NEVER SAID I HAVE A NEWER MODEL BIKE. AVON'S SITE DOES LIST MY MODEL YEAR.
If you would talk to another person in the condescending way you have addressed me here you must be one hell of a good fighter.
I made no assumptions. Review my past posts. I clearly stated what the Avon site said concerning model years.

I did not address you in a condescending way, just a matter of fact way. I think you led the way in condescension.

As to fighting, haven't had the need for that in a long time. I grew up logging and driving truck in rural PA. Not in the shape I used to be, but most folks don't try to pick fights with me. Particularly, since most find what I am telling them to be in their best interest. Why would anyone want to not be warned that they are considering doing something that might kill them? If you pick fights with people who are providing you correct information that might save your bacon, then you operate on logic that simply escapes me.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is online now  
post #43 of 71 Old Mar 10th, 2014, 8:36 am
Lifetime Supporter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: West Valley, UT, USA
Posts: 414
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Okay, I'm going to start this one out with an apology. I apologize to all the board members for letting my emotions get the better of me and venting publicly. I apologize to you Matt for not using better communication skills and to find out your intentions before I made the mistake of assuming you were being deliberately arrogant and condescending.

I don't dispute that you gave good information based on what you know, and it wasn't just your posts that were coming across the wrong way. It was actually the "tars is tars" bit that really ticked me off, you just responded to my response to that and caught the brunt of my stupidity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
I made no assumptions. Review my past posts. I clearly stated what the Avon site said concerning model years.

Yes and then you assumed that I had a newer model bike that was exclude from the use of the radial tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Yes, it is your bike and your choice. And if you are confident you are smarter than the engineers at both BMW and Avon, live it up!


I took that as condescending (and believe anyone on the receiving end of that would).

I did not address you in a condescending way, just a matter of fact way. I think you led the way in condescension.

No I led the way in angry sarcasm, I never tried to patronize anyone.

As to fighting, haven't had the need for that in a long time. I grew up logging and driving truck in rural PA. Not in the shape I used to be, but most folks don't try to pick fights with me. Particularly, since most find what I am telling them to be in their best interest. Why would anyone want to not be warned that they are considering doing something that might kill them? If you pick fights with people who are providing you correct information that might save your bacon, then you operate on logic that simply escapes me.
Again you had to have been making the assumption that I had a newer model bike to believe you were giving me information that could "save my bacon".

I am done with all this bickering. Again I apologize for my juvenile stupidity.

Now, I am serious about wanting to know if anyone has experience with the Avon front tire. I'm frugal, but cheap doesn't equal value. I've always had good experiences with Michelin, but I really like the Avon on the rear, so if the Avon front is decent I wouldn't mind saving a few dollars.
Buff8stuff is offline  
post #44 of 71 Old Mar 10th, 2014, 8:55 am
Senior Member
 
davebullock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: waukesha, WI, USA
Posts: 420
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

I'll take them if they are still available

Dave 262-893-6006
davebullock is offline  
post #45 of 71 Old Mar 10th, 2014, 9:02 am
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,150
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buff8stuff View Post
Okay, I'm going to start this one out with an apology. I apologize to all the board members for letting my emotions get the better of me and venting publicly. I apologize to you Matt for not using better communication skills and to find out your intentions before I made the mistake of assuming you were being deliberately arrogant and condescending.

I don't dispute that you gave good information based on what you know, and it wasn't just your posts that were coming across the wrong way. It was actually the "tars is tars" bit that really ticked me off, you just responded to my response to that and caught the brunt of my stupidity.



Again you had to have been making the assumption that I had a newer model bike to believe you were giving me information that could "save my bacon".

I am done with all this bickering. Again I apologize for my juvenile stupidity.

Now, I am serious about wanting to know if anyone has experience with the Avon front tire. I'm frugal, but cheap doesn't equal value. I've always had good experiences with Michelin, but I really like the Avon on the rear, so if the Avon front is decent I wouldn't mind saving a few dollars.
No offense intended and none taken. I have thick skin and enjoy a good discussion or debate. These make us all smarter.

I don't think I made the "tars is tars" comment, but will have to go back and check.

Sorry, no experience with Avons thus far. I have run Metzelers exclusively and not had the trouble that some have with rain and such. My last Metzeler rear developed a crack in the sidewall, but I take that as a manufacturing defect and not a design problem.

I am trying a Bridgestone rear coming up soon as I just can't ignore all of the forum gods (just having fun - don't take this the wrong way) who recommend the Stone rear and Metz front combination. I generally prefer to stay with matched tires as I trust the manufacturer to have tested that combination, but enough here have run this mix successfully to give me reasonable confidence it will work. And since both tires are same construction the risk of a stability problem is fairly small.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is online now  
post #46 of 71 Old Mar 10th, 2014, 12:04 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 978
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

I have Avons on front and rear - front put on late in fall so not many miles yet - I like the rear a lot so since I like same brand on both wheels put the Avon on the front when it needed to be replaced - there was a BT 023 on the front which did quite well and only cupped at the end of it's tread life

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
gary45 is offline  
post #47 of 71 Old Jun 13th, 2014, 8:55 pm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Salida, co, usa
Posts: 8
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

2005 K1200LT USA. I have just installed the avon storm II ultras. From my perspective, if the tires have the same load and speed ratings, they must be pretty close to good enough. And, again from my perspective, the relatively minor differences between a '04 and '05 in terms of weight, rake and trail would be likewise minor for a particular tire (in terms of how could a tire have any idea if it was on a pooching fjr1300 vs a hot ridden k1200lt). I'm surprised at the opinions expressed that the geometry changes would mean that an otherwise applicable tire would no longer be suitable (even, I suppose, in the face of "OMG! THE TIRE MAKER NO LONGER LISTS THE MOTORCYCLE AS SUPPORTED" though only the most modest of changes was made to said bike).

I have been running metzler me880s in the past. I presently ride predominantly in Colorado on 2 lane roads in a spirited fashion. In my experience, the roads here are paved with a more, I dunno, coarse bitumen and the solar gain is not inconsequential as compared with, for example, new england. I have no complaint with the mileage of the me880 (though I'm embarrassed to admit that I changed the rear today that had gone to the cord) despite often not-quite-so-legal speeds.

After 100 miles on two just passes (monarch and poncha), I can say that the first several corners were different than the me880s. Turned in with less effort and perhaps more confidence (though like most, I compare my old worn tires with my new ones). The rear feels as though it may more around more, but I suppose after a bit I did learn to accept the feel. Not complaints about performance or experience. No sliding of either end (not that I can claim my prior tires did either at these speeds and I would wonder about reports of much actual sliding of the K1200LT in the first place). It will be many miles before I could comment on longevity.

If the me888 tires have been available, I suppose I would have ordered them instead, based on my experience with the 880.

Last edited by nlastovi; Jun 13th, 2014 at 9:47 pm.
nlastovi is offline  
post #48 of 71 Old Jun 13th, 2014, 10:57 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,150
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by nlastovi View Post
2005 K1200LT USA. I have just installed the avon storm II ultras. From my perspective, if the tires have the same load and speed ratings, they must be pretty close to good enough. And, again from my perspective, the relatively minor differences between a '04 and '05 in terms of weight, rake and trail would be likewise minor for a particular tire (in terms of how could a tire have any idea if it was on a pooching fjr1300 vs a hot ridden k1200lt). I'm surprised at the opinions expressed that the geometry changes would mean that an otherwise applicable tire would no longer be suitable (even, I suppose, in the face of "OMG! THE TIRE MAKER NO LONGER LISTS THE MOTORCYCLE AS SUPPORTED" though only the most modest of changes was made to said bike).

I have been running metzler me880s in the past. I presently ride predominantly in Colorado on 2 lane roads in a spirited fashion. In my experience, the roads here are paved with a more, I dunno, coarse bitumen and the solar gain is not inconsequential as compared with, for example, new england. I have no complaint with the mileage of the me880 (though I'm embarrassed to admit that I changed the rear today that had gone to the cord) despite often not-quite-so-legal speeds.

After 100 miles on two just passes (monarch and poncha), I can say that the first several corners were different than the me880s. Turned in with less effort and perhaps more confidence (though like most, I compare my old worn tires with my new ones). The rear feels as though it may more around more, but I suppose after a bit I did learn to accept the feel. Not complaints about performance or experience. No sliding of either end (not that I can claim my prior tires did either at these speeds and I would wonder about reports of much actual sliding of the K1200LT in the first place). It will be many miles before I could comment on longevity.

If the me888 tires have been available, I suppose I would have ordered them instead, based on my experience with the 880.
Well, if you don't know the difference between radial and bias tire construction and don't think that this matters with respect to suspension design, then you wouldn't appreciate anything we could tell you about why running a tire suitable for one suspension design might have issues with a different suspension design.

Ride on! But if you have a family, please keep your life insurance current.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is online now  
post #49 of 71 Old Jun 14th, 2014, 5:46 am
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Salida, co, usa
Posts: 8
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Well, if you don't know the difference between radial and bias tire construction and don't think that this matters with respect to suspension design, then you wouldn't appreciate anything we could tell you about why running a tire suitable for one suspension design might have issues with a different suspension design.
Besides the slight change in rake/trail, what are the differences in "design" that you refer to?
nlastovi is offline  
post #50 of 71 Old Jun 14th, 2014, 8:59 am
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,150
Re: Avon STORM 2 Vs Metz 880

Quote:
Originally Posted by nlastovi View Post
Besides the slight change in rake/trail, what are the differences in "design" that you refer to?
Well, you seem to know more than the BMW engineers, so you should be able to figure it out. I will give you a hint, check to see if the same shocks are used before and after 2004/5 (I believe the suspension changes occurred a year earlier in Europe)...

And look up the equation for simple mechanical/structural resonance frequency and see what the two key variables are. Then ask yourself if either or both might be related to the differences between a radial and a REINFORCED bias ply tire.

I have been an engineer for 31 years. I have no firm idea what the exact issue is that BMW found with radial tires after making the suspension changes as this isn't the type of information that most companies will disclose. However, my suspicion is that there is a condition where the tire and suspension resonate at the same frequency. This can cause a very bad day. You may ride 10,000 miles and never encounter this or you may encounter it tomorrow. Rest assured BMW found something they didn't like. Changing any part in a production line costs money and part changes aren't made on a whim, at least not by reputable companies.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
$50 Avon Storm 2 rebate coug66 Tires 10 Jun 24th, 2011 9:54 pm
Avon Storm (original) wear report dukey33 Tires 11 Sep 22nd, 2010 1:43 pm
Um...are you guys SURE you want to run Avon Storm IIs on your LT??? petevandyke Tires 26 Sep 14th, 2010 4:05 pm
My Avon Storm front tire photos! MickS Tires 30 Jun 9th, 2010 7:16 pm
Avon Storm belt seperation over the weekend. jackd Tires 17 Jun 10th, 2008 6:38 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome