Dealership/owner resposibilities - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 30 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 7:05 pm Thread Starter
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Dealership/owner resposibilities

Before i flame a certain BMW dealer i would like to know if the following scenario is correct:

Friend of mine owns a 2012 K1600GTL,1000k miles on it, 600 mile service done on time by dealer. Last year he stored it at dealer for the winter, this season he picked it up and wouldnt start, dealer got it running. Mid way thru this season the motorcycle begins to stall al low rmp, felt like it was running on 4 cylinders at high revs it would just die. He brought it to the dealer, again the corrected the problem (fuel pump replaced).
He goes to pick it up and is stuffed a bil for $1000.00 because it was his negligence that caused the problem ( he failed to put fuel conditioner in the winter )while stored.

Is this a Bad Joke from the dealer or is this legit non-warranty repair????

Thanks, i need to tell this poor guy how to proceed

PLEASE DONT MOVE THE POST, I FIGURED IT WOULD APPLY TO ANY BMW

K1200LT
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post #2 of 30 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 7:18 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

I would be very PO'd at the dealer.

The big problem for me is the lack of dealers

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post #3 of 30 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 7:34 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Before we attack the dealer with torches and pitchforks, does this fellow's owners' manual address long-term storage? And, if so, did he scrupulously follow the requirements? If not, well, he can only hope to rely on the dealer's good will in helping him through this. They're not obligated to him for his own carelessness. Is it morally right? Perhaps not. But how far out on a limb should the seller be expected to go, if the buyer doesn't follow the playbook?

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post #4 of 30 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 7:46 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

I don't buy that "improper storage" kills a fuel pump. That is a cop out if I have ever seen one. the ONLY thing I have ever done to store a bike is to add "seafoam" to the tank and then park it, then plug in a battery tender. Now this is only across the past 40 years and 5 sports cars,6 motorcycles ALL of which never had a fuel storage related problem (no I did NOT drain the carb bowls I never do) and on the two other bikes that had fuel pumps from 1983 to 2012 stock fuel pump worked fine the entire life of the bike.

Currently riding a 2003 K1200LTC
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post #5 of 30 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 7:51 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Sounds like more BMW BS to me.

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post #6 of 30 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 7:52 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonwing
Before we attack the dealer with torches and pitchforks, does this fellow's owners' manual address long-term storage? And, if so, did he scrupulously follow the requirements? If not, well, he can only hope to rely on the dealer's good will in helping him through this. They're not obligated to him for his own carelessness. Is it morally right? Perhaps not. But how far out on a limb should the seller be expected to go, if the buyer doesn't follow the playbook?

you ,mean to tell me if i buy a $28000.00 motorcycle and i stored it for 3 months AT A DEALERSHIP, that im responsible for anything that happens after storage...

The manual does not address anything other than whats desribed in the image below so bring out "your torches", unless you work there.






Couple more INTELLIGENT replies and i give up the Dealer.

K1200LT
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post #7 of 30 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 9:09 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

This is a portion of a letter/email he received, if that happened to me i would have told the guy here are the keys, keep it...

"Your motorcycle came with a 3 year or 36,000 mile limited warranty against defects in materials or workmanship. The repair currently required regarding the seizure of the fuel pump has been determined to not be caused by a defect in materials or workmanship.

Although we are closing our file on this matter, our authorized BMW centers are always available to discuss any issues with your motorcycle.

Kind regards,"

K1200LT
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post #8 of 30 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 10:20 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

If you are storing a bike at a friends garage or storage facility, then by all means you as the owner are responsible to make sure the the bike is prepped for long term storage.

But the dealer should have had a checklist as part of their intake process or a disclosure document that says the owner has done the pre storage work. Or they could have offered that service for a fee.

My expectations of a professional dealer, that carries the BMW brand is a bit higher than my friend's garage.


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post #9 of 30 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 10:30 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

The Litmus test:

Did he pay the dealership for "storage" or did he pay the dealership for "winterization"? If they charged him to "winterize" the bike for long term storage they need to man up and eat the repair. Otherwise......... buyer beware. You get what you specify, not what you need.


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post #10 of 30 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 10:31 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

BS Call a lawyer

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post #11 of 30 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 11:11 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanwoolsey
The Litmus test:

Did he pay the dealership for "storage" or did he pay the dealership for "winterization"? If they charged him to "winterize" the bike for long term storage they need to man up and eat the repair. Otherwise......... buyer beware. You get what you specify, not what you need.
Nowhere in the manual does it state "Add sea foam" or whatever product in the fuel tank, neither does it say that owner "must ride motorcycle for set amount of miles" per year. Only says to disconnect battery and place it a manner where there is no weight on one wheel.
He payed a hefty price for storage because he thought that was safest.
And REALLY are you that naive??

K1200LT
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post #12 of 30 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 11:53 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

If this happened to me, I would make a phone call to BMW Motorad and find out their position on the subject. It's hard to imagine that the dealer could not have gotten this covered under warranty, assuming that the bike had fewer than 36K miles.

Tips


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post #13 of 30 Old Sep 5th, 2013, 2:35 am
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

I told bmw about 2 years ago

Screw me once, shame on you.
Screw me twice, shame on me.
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post #14 of 30 Old Sep 5th, 2013, 6:48 am
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruivis
If you are storing a bike at a friends garage or storage facility, then by all means you as the owner are responsible to make sure the the bike is prepped for long term storage.

But the dealer should have had a checklist as part of their intake process or a disclosure document that says the owner has done the pre storage work. Or they could have offered that service for a fee.

My expectations of a professional dealer, that carries the BMW brand is a bit higher than my friend's garage.
I feel the same. Maybe there is more to the story, but I don't feel that a 3-4 month "storage" is long enough to destroy a fuel pump without stabilizing the fuel. If the fuel pump is that fragile, then shame on BMW.

On another forum, I did read about a similar situation, concerning the fuel pump of another K1600 and now that there are two, I am concerned!

I really do love my K1600 and hate to read how a customer is treated badly by BMW or a dealer. Unfortunately, this dealers reaction is not isolated.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

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02 K1200 LT (gone but not forgotten)
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post #15 of 30 Old Sep 5th, 2013, 7:59 am
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

There are two thigs here that bother me. First, the timing seems odd. While bad fuel may cause problems, I would have expected storage related issues to come up right away, not several weeks later (maybe the initial start failure was a symptom, but does a fuel pump heal itself?). Second, this is a K1600, designed well after the ethanol craze, so you would expect the fuel system to be able to handle it.

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post #16 of 30 Old Sep 5th, 2013, 12:02 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

CrossCountry Cycles
911 Middlesex Ave, Metuchen, NJ 08840

SHAME ON YOU!!

Ill take my chances with BMW of Manhattan when the time comes.

Way back when BMW was trying to outfit the NYPD with the RT's, they treated us like gold, never heard a complaint about them, i hope they are not as unscrupulous as these fellas.

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post #17 of 30 Old Sep 5th, 2013, 1:54 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Use another dealer!!!

This one is apparently worried more about warranty claims then customer satisfaction. That could've been easily replaced under warranty and everyone's happy, including the guy who spent a small fortune on the bike.

Now they've potentially lost a customer.

NOT good business!!! No common sense!!!

In the last 2 years...
'08 R1200GS---Loved it!!!
'01 H-D Ultra Classic---Hated it!!! (aka. the infernal noise making machine)
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post #18 of 30 Old Sep 5th, 2013, 2:51 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Just sitting here thinking:

when a 'supplier'/dealer loses a customer, they
a. lose that customer (thus, the revenues from the customer)
b. become more visible as being a less than desirable dealer (potentially losing new customers as a result)
c. have a hard time getting that customer back (sales costs go up trying to recover the customer)
and-----and----
d. the competition GAINS a customer (that one hurts no matter what!).

not a smart move.

Mike Hammel (My Camel) [WB9GMO/4]
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post #19 of 30 Old Sep 5th, 2013, 3:07 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

So miraculously they were able to put a cleaner in there and get the fuel pump to work. He can pick it up today, now suddenly it doesn't need a new fuel pump and the bill for $1000.00 is gone.

Sometimes it is necessary to speak up even if it is INDIRECTLY, im sure one or two of their lackeys frequents this forum.

So with that, i appreciate your comments, most of which were POSITIVE and helpful.

Thanks a million!!

K1200LT
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post #20 of 30 Old Sep 5th, 2013, 4:48 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnight
CrossCountry Cycles
911 Middlesex Ave, Metuchen, NJ 08840

SHAME ON YOU!!

Ill take my chances with BMW of Manhattan when the time comes.

Way back when BMW was trying to outfit the NYPD with the RT's, they treated us like gold, never heard a complaint about them, i hope they are not as unscrupulous as these fellas.

I too had a bad experience at Cross Country--they were unable to analize why the triangle warning ligh was on.
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post #21 of 30 Old Sep 5th, 2013, 5:45 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Huuuuh?

They did not replace the fuel pump but gave him a $1,000 bill?

Didn't y'all get rid of your winter by April or so? Pick up a bike the dealer stored for the winter in Sept?

Bob

"He was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
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post #22 of 30 Old Sep 5th, 2013, 7:12 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Oh boy... It was stored for "our" winter... He tried to ride as much throughout the season, hes just picking up now after the latest mishap ...

K1200LT
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post #23 of 30 Old Sep 6th, 2013, 8:39 am
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

I haven't used them yet but Max Bmw has been quite helpful when I had a couple questions or needed something

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post #24 of 30 Old Sep 6th, 2013, 1:30 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

If dealer stored bike indoors, why would improper storage be an issue?

If dealer stored the bike, did they provide notice that is storage only, and that owner is responsible for proper winterization for storage, which the dealer would gladly pay for the appropriate fee?

Did dealer ever mention failure to winterize could be a problem?

They should have, IMHO.

I imagine they very well may start doing some or all of the above next season!

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post #25 of 30 Old Sep 6th, 2013, 2:41 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnight
you ,mean to tell me if i buy a $28000.00 motorcycle and i stored it for 3 months AT A DEALERSHIP, that im responsible for anything that happens after storage...

The manual does not address anything other than whats desribed in the image below so bring out "your torches", unless you work there.






Couple more INTELLIGENT replies and i give up the Dealer.
I don't see anything in that list about fuel so it is clearly a warranty issue as the operator has not been instructed in any other manner of maintenance. If the manual had even suggested or recommended fuel treatment I would say it is the owner's responsibility but in the absence of that it is either up to the dealer or BMW to pick up the tab.

-Steve

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post #26 of 30 Old Sep 6th, 2013, 3:09 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Did anyone smell the fuel? Bad fuel smells like varnish, was this detail mentioned in the service report? If not mentioned how did they determine whether the fuel was bad? This is a small claims matter, I had a similar issue with an aftermarket extended warranty on my 2003 K1200LTE. The adjuster tried to make this determination over the phone since he never saw the bike, and after a long negotiation he would not budge. I however took him to court where he lost and had to pay the tab plus my court fees. Build your case bro, and take this unscrupulous dealer to court for the storage fees as well. I don't believe you got your monies worth. If more people stood up for themselves, there would be no profit in deceit.
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post #27 of 30 Old Sep 6th, 2013, 4:26 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Unless this dealer is under scrutiny for falsified warranty claims, I cant for the life of me understand why they won't cover it.

The bike is STILL under warranty and storing a bike at the DEALER does NOT void that warranty. It's really just ignorance, or a power trip on their part to throw something this simple back on the customer. It's like they're saying "we got you by the balls because you left fuel in there for a few months", how ignorant.

Customer service is not a chiseled in granite, that's military thinking (no offense intended) when you can't cope with a gray area and things are by the book 100% or else. The military doesn't need to worry about customer service.

Anyway, if they file a warranty claim, they get paid and the have a happy customer to boot. What's the problem???

What a bunch of eggheads.

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'08 R1200GS---Loved it!!!
'01 H-D Ultra Classic---Hated it!!! (aka. the infernal noise making machine)
'02 K1200LT(black)---Even my GF is jealous of this one.
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post #28 of 30 Old Sep 7th, 2013, 11:23 am Thread Starter
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

As i said before, i think they tried to pull a fast one on this guy, what amazes me is that after voicing the issue here, miraculously the issue wasnt as serious and the fuel pump didnt need replacement. Even some schmuck from Motorad wrote him to say it wasnt a warranty issue.

I dont even understand why they would put their reputation on the line, that place sells motorcycles like ihop sells pancakes.

What matters now is that he shouldnt give these tools a reason to try this again.

K1200LT
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post #29 of 30 Old Sep 7th, 2013, 11:49 am
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Was the old fuel sampled and verified bad by the dealer? Three months shouldn't require storage preps.

Time for small claims court.
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post #30 of 30 Old Sep 7th, 2013, 1:04 pm
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Re: Dealership/owner resposibilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanwoolsey
The Litmus test:

Did he pay the dealership for "storage" or did he pay the dealership for "winterization"? If they charged him to "winterize" the bike for long term storage they need to man up and eat the repair. Otherwise......... buyer beware. You get what you specify, not what you need.
My thought as well. To me "storage" means just that, they store the bike for the winter. Winterization, or storage preparation, etc., is a whole nother animal. What did he pay the dealer for? Just floor space to store the bike? Or did he pay for storage prep services?

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