Paint Flakes In The Cylinder? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 10 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 4:03 pm Thread Starter
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Unhappy Paint Flakes In The Cylinder?

After shelling out thousands of dollars over the years for dealer servicing. I decided to do the 60,000 mile service - and some other mods - on my 2000 LT. Installed SpeedBleeders, Jiffy Tite quick disconnects, changed brake fluid, clutch fluid, tranny oil, FD oil, air filter, gas filter, rear brake pads, installed a new EBC rear rotor and whatever else - all for the first time. Haven't ridden in two weeks but this is fun.

Until I checked the valves. Six exhaust valves are out of spec (too loose) and one intake valve is too tight. Not what I was hoping for. All I really wanted to do was pop in new spark plugs and go for a ride.

I was following Kirk Johnson's youtube videos for most of what I did up till now, so followed his video on adjusting valves. Before removing the cams and sprockets, etc., he suggests setting the cylinder #1 to 90 degrees before top dead center by inserting a dowel rod into the first cylinder, marking the high point and low point of the piston's travel as you rotate the engine, then setting the piston to the halfway point of its travel.

He didn't suggest using a dowel rod that was painted green. That was my idea because it was the only one I had on hand.

Long story short: when I pulled the dowel out of the spark plug port, I noticed an area on it about an inch long missing its green paint. I have no idea if that paint was missing before I inserted the rod into the cylinder. No way to tell from looking at it if the missing paint happened ten minutes, ten months or ten years ago.

Couple of questions:
1. Will a bit of dried latex paint flakes be a problem if just left to burn up and vaporize in the cylinder? Not the best choice, I'm sure, but I'm not even sure if the paint's in there!
2. Is there any way (short of tearing the engine apart) to visually inspect inside the cylinder?
3. Any suggestions on how to remove the paint flakes, if that's what needs to be done?
4. Since I have to proceed with removing cam shaft and buckets, etc., are there a few extra steps I can go through to remove the paint flakes?

I've searched the forum for as many relevant topics as I could think of and haven't found any like this. Maybe I can lay claim to having invented a new user error???

P.S. Kirk's K1200LT DIY youtube videos are really great. They've saved me a ton of money and made this process as smooth as it could be.

-Richard S.
2000 K1200LT Champagne
2004 R1150RT Silver
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post #2 of 10 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 4:33 pm
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Re: Paint Flakes In The Cylinder?

valves do not get looser - how much are they out? - what is the gap you are measuring

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
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post #3 of 10 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 4:58 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Paint Flakes In The Cylinder?

Maybe I got the terminology upside down? What I mean is that on the exhaust side, the gaps are larger than the .25-.30mm spec as follows:


valves from left to right (in mm): .30 .31 .34 .33 .31 .28 .32 .33

On the intake side, I can't fit the .15mm feeler into the first valve on the first cylinder.

I assumed that a gap larger than spec meant a looser valve...but I'm a little green at this (pun intended - Sorry).

-Richard S.
2000 K1200LT Champagne
2004 R1150RT Silver
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post #4 of 10 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 6:14 pm
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Re: Paint Flakes In The Cylinder?

Did you remove the spark plugs before you checked the exhaust valves? If so then carbon bits from the plugs could be holding the valve open - thus the increase in clearance. Normal wear on the K1200 engine is in the valve seat area which will always close up the gap. Spin the engine with the plugs out and re-check your wide gaps.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #5 of 10 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 6:49 pm
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Re: Paint Flakes In The Cylinder?

BMW emphatically states in the service manuals for the "brick" engines that the spark plugs SHOULD NOT BE REMOVED before taking the valve clearance readings. That is one glaring mistake in the Gunsmoke write up. Wish there was a way (I tried to find a contact) to have him correct this.

The horizontal layout, with the exhaust valves under the spark plugs makes it pretty east for any carbon flakes dislodged when the spark plugs are removed to drop down into any open exhaust valves, to be to be trapped between the valve and seat. This will cause a too large gap to be measured, when in fact the valve may be correct or too tight.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #6 of 10 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 7:07 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Paint Flakes In The Cylinder?

Yes, I checked gaps with spark plugs removed.

Will spin motor, recheck gaps and report back in the morning.

Of course I had the BMW manual sitting only 10 feet away and never double checked this part of the procedure. Lesson learned.

Thanks to both of you for the tip. Maybe I only have to deal with the one valve on the intake side.

Any thoughts on the possible latex paint scraping? I'll try using a shop vac rigged up with a plastic hose and see what happens.

-Richard S.
2000 K1200LT Champagne
2004 R1150RT Silver
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post #7 of 10 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 8:08 pm
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Re: Paint Flakes In The Cylinder?

My advice on the paint flakes, don't worry about them just fire up the engine and forget about it. Use a clean dowel next time. As for internal cylinder inspection, yes, a borescope can be used. They are available with controllable, pivoting ends so they can look up the cylinder to the head etc.

Dennis
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1991 Aprilia Climber 280
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post #8 of 10 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 9:48 pm
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Re: Paint Flakes In The Cylinder?

I would have no worry about paint flakes at all. If there, they will disappear on the first cylinder firing, and at worst turn into some carbon flecks which will also rapidly go out in the exhaust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by howles
Yes, I checked gaps with spark plugs removed.

Will spin motor, recheck gaps and report back in the morning.

Of course I had the BMW manual sitting only 10 feet away and never double checked this part of the procedure. Lesson learned.

Thanks to both of you for the tip. Maybe I only have to deal with the one valve on the intake side.

Any thoughts on the possible latex paint scraping? I'll try using a shop vac rigged up with a plastic hose and see what happens.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #9 of 10 Old Aug 31st, 2013, 11:56 am
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Re: Paint Flakes In The Cylinder?

On the paint flakes...

I won't worry about them. They'll vanish out the tail pipe wen you fire it up with no damage to the engine. No matter latex, lead or lead free.

You could borescope it and see but doubt you'd see anything of concern.

Put a fresh set of spark plugs in it and ride it a few days, then check valve clearance without removing the sparkplugs first. Typically exhaust valves with tighten (clearance numbers go smaller) and intakes rarely need attention.

B D R
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post #10 of 10 Old Sep 4th, 2013, 5:49 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Paint Flakes In The Cylinder?

Finally had a chance to turn the engine over and recheck the valves.

They measured slightly differently but the ones that were out of spec remained out of spec.

When I went to the dealer to purchase new buckets, I brought my chart and spoke with their senior technician, a man with 25 years experience in the service department.

I asked him if it's unusual for 6 of the 8 exhaust gaps to exceed .30 mm given that the bike has been regularly maintained. He said you could swap them out if you want but don't forget it's not a problem if the gap is too wide, only if it's too small. It's more of a judgment call when they're too wide as in this case where only one of the six measured .34 mm and the rest .33 or less. It led me to believe that this service department isn't going to bother with swapping buckets unless the gaps are way out of spec on the loose side.

The parts department only had three of the buckets I needed so I plan to correct the too tight gap on the intake side and the two most severely out of spec on the exhaust side.
I'll keep the gap and bucket size records and haul them out 12,000 miles from now to see what's changed.

As an aside, the parts department said they don't stock new buckets. Instead, they sold me used buckets taken in by the service department and used when needed on K bikes they service. So much for worrying about new vs. used - at least in this case.

Most importantly, I need to get this bike back together and go for a ride. Not enough summer left.

I appreciate the contributions by folks here to better my understanding of how this machine works.

-Richard S.
2000 K1200LT Champagne
2004 R1150RT Silver
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