Ethanol okay for your LT? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 1:25 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mycamel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: roswell , ga, usa
Posts: 512
Ethanol okay for your LT?

Sitting in front of a Krogers and noticed a sign that reads: "PREMIUN FUEL does NOT contain ETHENOL"

I suspect that's company wide. Cool!!!

Hope that improves my MPG from 44-46 avg highway. Should also be better for my '02 engine, right?

Mike Hammel (My Camel) [WB9GMO/4]
2002 K1200LT-E
1998 ACE Burgundy (now 'retired')
1998 ACE Yellow/Black Tourer (now 'retired')
19?? Suzuki 500 (now 'retired')
1962 modifed 49cc>~55cc Sears MoPed (LONG 'retired')

US Army Security Agency 0582L68 ('64-68)
moderator and owner:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Retired from the business world (finally--sigh --poor and proud)
Georgia Patriot Guard Riders
Roswell, GA
mycamel is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 1:43 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
DanMartin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Fulshear, TX, USA
Posts: 2,082
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Wish I could see a sign like that !
DanMartin is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 2:13 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pensacola, FL, USA
Posts: 130
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

I run regular E10 in mine and get 50.1 MPG. I also live in Northwest FL where the highest elevation is an overpass. YMMV.

53 MPG and life just keeps getting better

2001 Triumph Sprint ST [sold]
2000 K1200LT 'Nimitz'
Centaurious is offline  
 
post #4 of 22 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 2:46 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: , ,
Posts: 558
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

I used gas both with and without ethanol in my 99LT and never noticed any difference in gas mileage. My LT got 55-60 mpg most of the time around Kansas.
ATFLT is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 3:39 pm
Senior Member
 
timgray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Muskegon, MI, USA
Posts: 377
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Not all places have ethanol free Premium. Most actually have more ethanol in the premium as it has a higher Octane rating and makes it cheaper to get to 92. I know that shell and the local michigan gas stations named "wesco" add ethanol to all grades, ethanol is actually an octane enhancer as well as a fuel so it is likely that if your local pump is using Ethanol enhanced fuel it is in all grades and probably at full 10% in premium fuel.

Ethanol it's self has an octane rating of 113, it's why most people that race cars run E85, it's cheap racing fuel.

http://www.cartalk.com/content/premium-vs-regular-0 Car talks info on this.

I am betting that the LT is designed to deal with ethanol, unless BMW made some major boneheaded decisions in plastic and rubber choices when they built the bikes there should be no problems... Storage issues are more important.

Currently riding a 2003 K1200LTC

Last edited by timgray; Aug 30th, 2013 at 5:41 pm.
timgray is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 6:17 pm
Wrencher Extraordinaire
 
jzeiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hazel Green, AL, USA
Posts: 13,269
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Just remember higher octane does not mean more power per volume of fuel. In fact just the opposite is true as the higher octane will not detonate in a high compression engine where lower octane will explode on its own.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jzeiler is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 8:21 pm
Senior Member
 
timgray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Muskegon, MI, USA
Posts: 377
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Just remember higher octane does not mean more power per volume of fuel. In fact just the opposite is true as the higher octane will not detonate in a high compression engine where lower octane will explode on its own.
Yup, But at 13.5:1 compression, or running 24 psi of boost on an engine it's important to have very high Octane ratings so it doesn't detonate.

The LT is a 10.8:1 compression engine and that is why we actually need Midgrade at normal temps and Premium at high air temps.

Currently riding a 2003 K1200LTC
timgray is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 9:44 pm
cws
Senior Member
 
cws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 3,183
Garage
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Ran E10 95 in my 2005 for about 3 years as it was relatively cheaper and the LT is designed to take it according to all the specs I could find.
Trouble was I had a bad hesitation at takeoff, and since its my only vehicle for commuting I have a lot of traffic lights to deal with.
Changed back to standard 95 fuel and hesitation gone, won't use ethanol again unless there's no choice.

Chris
Sydney, NSW
2005 Dark Graphite Metallic K1200LT
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2005 Orient Blue Metallic K1200GT SE
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(sold 2019)
2000 Red Honda CB250 (the toy)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Ulysses #45310
GS911


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

cws is online now  
post #9 of 22 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 10:13 pm
Senior Member
 
james216's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Garfield Hts, Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,383
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Wished I could see signs like that..

2004 K1200LT. Big Mama
1999 Suzuki Intruder VL1500LC. Betty Lou.
I'm a 4 percenter.
james216 is offline  
post #10 of 22 Old Aug 31st, 2013, 12:21 am
Senior Member
 
timgray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Muskegon, MI, USA
Posts: 377
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Around here they charge you full price for E10, but then they dont mark it E10, Michigan does not require them to tell you so only stations that have non ethanol advertise they dont have any, so you have to assume ALL stations are selling E10 unless they say otherwise.

Currently riding a 2003 K1200LTC
timgray is offline  
post #11 of 22 Old Aug 31st, 2013, 8:15 pm
Senior Member
 
RonKMiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 6,280
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

There are apparently 146 stations in MI that sell ethanol free gas - and 7215 in the US and Canada total:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=MI

Just about impossible to find in the Southwest. Ethanol causes all KINDS of hell with outboards, small engines and older bikes AND newer bikes as well.

Our local BMW shop - the #1 in the nation for customer satisfaction - tells me that 25% of performance related problems are due to ethanol. It keeps their service department busy and them in a very profitable position due to it.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Like Butt-ahh!"

Last edited by RonKMiller; Aug 31st, 2013 at 8:24 pm.
RonKMiller is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old Aug 31st, 2013, 8:23 pm
Senior Member
 
RonKMiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 6,280
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by james216
Wished I could see signs like that..
You can - there are 40 in Ohio:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OH

If it was just a few miles out of my way I would definitely get it...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Like Butt-ahh!"
RonKMiller is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old Aug 31st, 2013, 11:05 pm
Wrencher Extraordinaire
 
jzeiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hazel Green, AL, USA
Posts: 13,269
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgray
Yup, But at 13.5:1 compression, or running 24 psi of boost on an engine it's important to have very high Octane ratings so it doesn't detonate.

The LT is a 10.8:1 compression engine and that is why we actually need Midgrade at normal temps and Premium at high air temps.
The 05 + are 11.5:1 using the RS pistons. I always use premium, non-ethanol if I can find it.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jzeiler is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old Sep 1st, 2013, 5:40 pm
Senior Member
 
RonKMiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 6,280
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgray

The LT is a 10.8:1 compression engine and that is why we actually need Midgrade at normal temps and Premium at high air temps.
I don't think I can agree with that line of thinking.

The owner's manual of my my 2001 (which should apply to all years from '99 to '04 with a compression ratio of 10.8 to 1) manual calls for Super premium unleaded fuel minimum - 95 RON or 85 MON = 90 pump octane. Period.

I would not run regular or midgrade in it - ever.

Generally speaking premium in the US is 91-93, midgrade 89 and regular 87.

Compression does not always dictate octane requirements - it is MUCH more involved than that. (unless your current knowledge of internal combustion motors stops in about 1985). For example, Mazda's Sky Activ motor has a compression ratio of 13:1 - yet calls for an octane rating of 87. Over the life of the vehicle the savings between using super premium and regular can add up to some serious money.

I've always suspected that manufacturer's of high end vehicles specify Super premium simply because that's what their customer's expect: "What, run regular in my Mercedes?? It's much too good for that - why even the thought is just DREADFUL!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Like Butt-ahh!"
RonKMiller is offline  
post #15 of 22 Old Sep 1st, 2013, 6:05 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 978
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

the LT motor does not have a knock sensor so you are taking a chance running less the premium - they run pretty lean

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
gary45 is offline  
post #16 of 22 Old Sep 1st, 2013, 7:03 pm
Senior Member
 
6speedTi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
Posts: 1,031
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

World wide premium is 91 octane in USA numbers. Super is what most of us confuse premium to be. 95 RON in Europe is equal to our 91 here in the states. Generally you will only find one grade of unleaded fuel in Europe and it is 95 RON. Europe is more focused on diesel and multiple grades of cetane ratings. 89 to 91 octane should be sufficient to run a BMW motorbike. If you ride hard then step up the octane fuel. If you can avoid ethanol and run straight gas it would be better.

2012 R1200RT
1985 T5 Vespa
2007 Piaggio X9 500 EVO
6speedTi is offline  
post #17 of 22 Old Sep 1st, 2013, 7:07 pm
Senior Member
 
timgray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Muskegon, MI, USA
Posts: 377
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

I was believing that sticker on the gas lid that said 89 AKI mean 89 Octane US.

Need to get some octane booster in there. Honestly, why did the dealers let the bikes out without slapping a sticker over that or peeling it off. Most people would be fooled by that.

Currently riding a 2003 K1200LTC

Last edited by timgray; Sep 1st, 2013 at 7:26 pm.
timgray is offline  
post #18 of 22 Old Sep 1st, 2013, 7:10 pm
Senior Member
 
Dragonwing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Elyria, OH, USA
Posts: 385
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Owner's manual specifies 91 pump octane for mine. So, no guesswork or analysis need be involved. Seems simple enough.

DW

"A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer."

BMW K1200LT "Carpathia"
Suzuki GV1400 Cavalcade "Paladin"
Kawasaki ZX14 Ninja "Shashka"
Kawasaki GPz1100 "Sicarius"
Buell S3 "Pazuzu"
Honda GL1100 Gold Wing "Aurore"
Honda PC800 Pacific Coast "Octavia"
Honda CB750F "Genvieve"

And other remnants of a misspent youth.
Dragonwing is offline  
post #19 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 9:57 am
Senior Member
 
rowie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: An hour southwest of Boston, MA, USA
Posts: 476
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

And with higher compression in the '05s and onwards, they also, IMHO, are a "never ever ever run anything less than 91". I've read about 8 different posts from John Zeiler over the last three years or so who mentions he has seen ring and wall damage across several motors almost certainly from running lower octane. I've heard a few owners on this board and on the road that have the misconception that because this is a BMW, it is high tech and therefore it must have a knock sensor... Which it doesn't (and you do have to wonder why on a touring bike that could end up in the middle of nowhere, but presumably it was a cost/benefit trade off).

Now on the topic of ethanol, I hate that stuff - it destroyed the fuel system of a chain saw and blower even with Stabil added (fuel lines harden and crack). And worse, there are only two gas stations in the entire state of MA that have fuel without ethanol, and they're way out of the way for me to get to. So I guess I'm hoping by the luck of the gods that the fuel system can handle 10% corn.... And there was talk of going to 15%...

BMWMOA member

Current rides:
2005 Dark Graphite Metallic BMW K1200LT
2002 Pearl Orange Honda VTX1800 Retro

Prior rides:
Suzuki GS425E (Australia)
Suzuki T250R (Australia)
rowie is offline  
post #20 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 12:19 pm
Senior Member
 
blueknightga6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Acworth, GA, USA
Posts: 1,176
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Just remember higher octane does not mean more power per volume of fuel. In fact just the opposite is true as the higher octane will not detonate in a high compression engine where lower octane will explode on its own.
I had a 2000 Ford Mustang and Ford recommended REGULAR unleaded even saying the engine was designed for it. The owner's manual even had a section that said that premium unleaded "provided no benefit for the engine and could result in less than optimal fuel economy and performance". Some engines are designed for it and some are not.

Chris Ehlbeck
2002 BMW K1200LTE Toscana Green Retired with 85,391 miles
2014 BMW R1200RT Quartz Blue Metallic

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
blueknightga6 is offline  
post #21 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 8:00 pm
Senior Member
 
Kra961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: University Place, WA, USA
Posts: 656
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

According to the Service Rep BMW will not warranty damage done to your fuel system caused by Ethanol, the problem is the rubber used in the fuel system that rapidly degrades because of Ethanol the stuff really does a number on hoses and rings.

If we end up with E15 I think we're going to see a whole heck of lot of very unhappy people not to mention the drastically lowered fuel mileage that goes along with its use.

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.

09 K1200 LT
Project LT:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Future plans
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


University Place, WA
Riding since 1969
Kra961 is offline  
post #22 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 9:02 pm
Senior Member
 
deputy5211's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dallas Area, TX, USA
Posts: 4,877
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

I do not believe that Kroger premium is ethanol-free in all states they operate or across all of their many brands. In the D/FW area, it does not apply on Kroger-branded fuel. On a recent trip out west, did not see such a sign at Fry's, Food For Less, or Ralphs (all Kroger brands).

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
-----------------------------------------------

If you want to be happy for a day, drink.
If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

-----------------------------------------------


'05 K1200LT - Dark Graphite - RIP 04 OCT 2015
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


'99 Road King Classic - Custom Blue/Silver & Chrome - "My Baby" Gone but forever in my heart!

and many, many others.
*

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
deputy5211 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ethanol 15 and the gtl baggerthree K1600GT/GTL 13 Oct 2nd, 2012 9:18 am
Fighting Ethanol on the Road MattWhite RT Series 13 Aug 21st, 2011 12:16 pm
Ethanol Concerns greg09 K1200LT 9 Jan 24th, 2011 7:54 pm
Ethanol fuel problems ColinS Australia, New Zealand, and AsiaPac 11 Mar 11th, 2010 12:18 am
10% ethanol vs. 100% gas Tracus Bike Talk 11 Dec 4th, 2009 7:51 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome