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post #1 of 24 Old Oct 7th, 2005, 8:43 pm Thread Starter
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Question Clutch Replaced. And Now, Page 2...

(continuation of a previous post, but with new info and comments)

Just picked my '05 LT from the dealer. At the 600 mile service (1175 miles on the bike) they had to replace the clutch. Their diagnosis was: the clutch slave cylinder leaked onto clutch components. They replaced the clutch (plates, springs, disc). (please pardon if this is incorrect; I was taking notes as the service manager described the fix and this is not my forte)

At the same time they installed my new BMW tall windhshield and moved the top case to the aft position.

Point 1: On the ride home tonight (first time to ride, ever, in the rain) the tall windshield did a nice job. I'm 6'1", 30" inseam, and I don't know if I need to install a barn door on the front of this thing or something, but I am still not experiencing this "envelope of calm air" that others have described. Guess I need to look at after-market windows -- another science unto itself. Definite improvement, but I need more, especially on the sides.

Point 2: Wife and adult son took turns sitting in the passenger position, after I got home. They both agreed the additional 1"-2" is an improvement. My son's previous complaint was that the seating position for him, with the top case in the original position, caused lots of pain in the Private Parts Region. He was hitting the substructure-thingy at the very leading edge of the passenger seat. But I digress...

Point 3: All kinds of NEW AND EXCITING SOUNDS AND VIBRATIONS driving home tonight. Whassup w/that? New sound 1: I'll describe it as a transmission "whine" at 60mph +. New sound 2: plastic body parts and other more significant-feeling parts vibrating as I fall through 2800 RPMs. These sounds/sensations have not been felt before. (Truth be told, the "transmission whine" is kind of cool, but it wasn't there before.)

Any ideas?

PS: New clutch works great, and I am happy to be back on the bike after 10 days without it. They also cleaned/did something (yeah, I need to find out) to front and rear brakes; no more squealing/grinding.

PPS: Dealer did not charge for moving the top case, as they had to move it anyway for the clutch repair, and they did not charge for installing the new windshield. Nice touch on their part.

TIA

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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Last edited by hschisler; Oct 7th, 2005 at 8:50 pm.
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post #2 of 24 Old Oct 7th, 2005, 8:52 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
New sound 1: I'll describe it as a transmission "whine" at 60mph +.
Since introduced in 1983, the K-bike drive trains have had a characteristic whine -- enough so, that the bikes (and sometimes their owners) are known as "K-whiners."

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post #3 of 24 Old Oct 7th, 2005, 8:56 pm
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Got to wonder if that whine was always there but now you hear it because you have a bigger wind shield?

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post #4 of 24 Old Oct 7th, 2005, 9:09 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwnahas
Got to wonder if that whine was always there but now you hear it because you have a bigger wind shield?
Yes, exactly -- I had that same thought on the way home. I proved that theory wrong, however, by putting the windshield all the way down. I could still hear it, even over all the wind hitting my face (open-face helmet). I did not hear it previously with the old (shorter) windshield, up or down.

Bottom line: do LTs normally make this sound?
And what about the new vibrations?

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #5 of 24 Old Oct 7th, 2005, 9:16 pm
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The tupperware re-install may be to blame

If you are getting new body noise, the problem may be the installation procedure used on the the tupperware. The correct method is to get all screws started; then tighten all screws until almost snug; and finally tighten all screws. If you start them and tighten them at the same time, they put some odd stresses on the tupperware.

My 2001 has a nice transmission whine.

I have a Cee Baileys #2 with wings to replace the standard windshield which did not give much of a dead zone.

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post #6 of 24 Old Oct 7th, 2005, 9:36 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rspyder
If you are getting new body noise, the problem may be the installation procedure used on the the tupperware. The correct method is to get all screws started; then tighten all screws until almost snug; and finally tighten all screws. If you start them and tighten them at the same time, they put some odd stresses on the tupperware.
Interesting. I'd think the BMW technicians would know about this... right?
Mine is not the only bike they service.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #7 of 24 Old Oct 7th, 2005, 9:57 pm
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NOW YOU HAVE DONE IT! opened up the pandoras box on BMW techs. You should never have gone there! Sometimes I wonder what school they attended to become labeled TECHS?

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post #8 of 24 Old Oct 7th, 2005, 10:18 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOGILLS2
NOW YOU HAVE DONE IT! opened up the pandoras box on BMW techs. You should never have gone there! Sometimes I wonder what school they attended to become labeled TECHS?
Let's be clear about this: I'm not bashing the BMW techs. I've met some of them, they seem competent (whatever that means). The service manager has been around, too.

On the other hand: things are VERY different today than they were when I last rode it.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #9 of 24 Old Oct 7th, 2005, 11:24 pm
 
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I purchased a Laminar Lip for my standard shield and have noticed a really big difference in the amount of air noise and buffeting . You might want to give it a try before going to another shield.
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post #10 of 24 Old Oct 8th, 2005, 12:46 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
I am still not experiencing this "envelope of calm air" that others have described.
I don't always experience the "envelope of calm air". However I do most of the time. It really depends on how much crosswind there is and exactly wich direction it is coming from.

Mike Kiesel

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post #11 of 24 Old Oct 8th, 2005, 7:12 am
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It's some kind of intellectual dead spot, relating to skin replacement. Years ago I just reconciled myself to spending an hour or so after each BMW service visit puting the Tupperware back on correctly. They have not gotten it right, once. I even have a full supply of all fasteners so I can replace the parts they have lost or stripped. But, you really shouldn't expect much for $70/hour.

Yes. I did discuss the problem with the dealership - two seperate Service Managers. They blew off the problem as though I was the only one who ever had it. I know approximately a dozen people who have the same complaint.
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post #12 of 24 Old Oct 8th, 2005, 7:19 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Point 3: All kinds of NEW AND EXCITING SOUNDS AND VIBRATIONS driving home tonight. Whassup w/that? New sound 1: I'll describe it as a transmission "whine" at 60mph +. These sounds/sensations have not been felt before. (Truth be told, the "transmission whine" is kind of cool, but it wasn't there before.)
Did they refill the gearbox oil?

*Spring City*
Suzuki T500
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post #13 of 24 Old Oct 8th, 2005, 7:23 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VikingRider
Did they refill the gearbox oil?
Don't know, and don't know how to check.
Guess I'll check the manual.

Good news is the sound was consistent -- it didn't get louder or worse during the one-hour trip home.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #14 of 24 Old Oct 8th, 2005, 7:24 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BkrK12
It's some kind of intellectual dead spot, relating to skin replacement. Years ago I just reconciled myself to spending an hour or so after each BMW service visit puting the Tupperware back on correctly. They have not gotten it right, once. I even have a full supply of all fasteners so I can replace the parts they have lost or stripped. But, you really shouldn't expect much for $70/hour.
Good info; are you saying the vibrating sensations/sounds I'm hearing could be because of improperly-installed body panels? (just want to clarify what you're telling me -- thanks)

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #15 of 24 Old Oct 8th, 2005, 9:54 am
 
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K Whine?

Hey guys,

I don't have any friends riding BMW so I can't make any good comparisons.

The K whine thing.. is it something that sounds like you've got a cam chain loose kind of thing? It happens when I hit the gas, very mild pull on the throttle. It goes "tic-tic-tic-tic" very quickly... couple of times each second... Can hear it very clearly when I put my face near the radio remote while riding. Sound goes off when I don't pull the throttle.
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post #16 of 24 Old Oct 8th, 2005, 2:51 pm
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Parts make many sounds when not properly installed

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Good info; are you saying the vibrating sensations/sounds I'm hearing could be because of improperly-installed body panels? (just want to clarify what you're telling me -- thanks)

Worth a look to see if everything is fastened properly. If it makes the noises at idle, you can use your hands on the panels to dampen out vibrations. That might help you figure out what is not fastened correctly.
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post #17 of 24 Old Oct 8th, 2005, 9:59 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plonk
The K whine thing.. is it something that sounds like you've got a cam chain loose kind of thing? It happens when I hit the gas, very mild pull on the throttle. It goes "tic-tic-tic-tic" very quickly... couple of times each second... Can hear it very clearly when I put my face near the radio remote while riding. Sound goes off when I don't pull the throttle.
No, this is a constant sound, sounds like an electric motor, it's consistent with speed.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #18 of 24 Old Oct 9th, 2005, 1:34 am
 
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vibrations in the tupperware

Check out the mirrors.

I had mine with a 2mm gap towards the rear, and plastics in the front of the mirror mount touches the front cowl. This gave a lot of noise when riding at low speeds like 10km/h. Problem solved when you put washers into mounting bolts to even out the width.

K-whine.. hmm.. if that's not it, I probably have a loose cam chain.
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post #19 of 24 Old Oct 9th, 2005, 6:40 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFZone
I purchased a Laminar Lip for my standard shield and have noticed a really big difference in the amount of air noise and buffeting . You might want to give it a try before going to another shield.
Is this an add-on to an existing windshied, and where can I see/get one?

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #20 of 24 Old Oct 9th, 2005, 8:29 am
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Is this an add-on to an existing windshied, and where can I see/get one?

Google brings up many. This is one: http://www.laminarlip.com/

Duane

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post #21 of 24 Old Feb 26th, 2007, 4:01 pm
 
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Take it back to the shop ASAP and get your complaints satisfied.

BTW one of my LT clutches I did myself...and I paid aprofessional shop to accurately spin-balance the assembly. MUCH smoother. Stock the big aluminum basket probably isn't balanced at all, the Sachs back-plate is. But after the shop balanced it with spring and pressure-plate, they took off a lot more right in the same are as the Sachs factory marks from their balnacing end-mills/drills.
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post #22 of 24 Old Feb 26th, 2007, 7:59 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclecamper
Take it back to the shop ASAP and get your complaints satisfied.

BTW one of my LT clutches I did myself...and I paid aprofessional shop to accurately spin-balance the assembly. MUCH smoother. Stock the big aluminum basket probably isn't balanced at all, the Sachs back-plate is. But after the shop balanced it with spring and pressure-plate, they took off a lot more right in the same are as the Sachs factory marks from their balnacing end-mills/drills.
I appreciate the response, but I asked the original questions in this thread almost a year and a half ago. All questions and concerns have been addressed, and after 27k miles I've learned a lot more about the idiosyncracies (sounds, vibrations, etc.) of the LT.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #23 of 24 Old Feb 26th, 2007, 9:38 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
No, this is a constant sound, sounds like an electric motor, it's consistent with speed.
Try and refill the tranny with Red Line (TM) "heavy" shock proof gear lube with an extra hint of Molyslip (TM) gear lube and the noise might quiet down. My Guzzi Stone had the same problem and the change out helped it considerably.
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post #24 of 24 Old Feb 27th, 2007, 6:22 am
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The Tech's will never know about the fairing noise unless they ride the bike after they put it back together. Loosen all the screws, settle the panels, and re-tighten or, if you can find the source, add the soft parts of velcro as buffers between the parts where they rub. When my 03 starts rattling the first place I look is the screws holding the windscreen on the adjustment arms. Usually it's either the plastic covers or the screws have worked loose. 2Nm isn't very much and the blue loctite doesn't always hold them in. When they work loose the covers and the windscreen can make a racket.

Bill McAllister
St. Louis, MO.
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