Farewell to the LT - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 42 Old Aug 6th, 2013, 3:58 pm Thread Starter
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Farewell to the LT

I traded in my 2003 LT for a 2013 Kawasaki Voyager today. While the LT is a wonderful machine it had become clear that it was not the right bike for me. I do want to thank everyone who offered me advice over the past 6 years and wish you all happy riding.
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post #2 of 42 Old Aug 6th, 2013, 7:44 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by markc
I traded in my 2003 LT for a 2013 Kawasaki Voyager today. While the LT is a wonderful machine it had become clear that it was not the right bike for me. I do want to thank everyone who offered me advice over the past 6 years and wish you all happy riding.
If you haven't signed off already, I'd be interested to hear your impressions of the Kawasaki. I came to my 2007 LT from a 1987 Voyager XII. I was hoping for a new more modern Voyager, but we got the retro cruiser Vulcan Voyager instead. I bought the LT as I wanted something modern that wasn't a cruiser style bike. I will never own another Honda so that left only BMW.

I mostly like the LT, but the parts cost and lack of reliability as compared to the Kawasaki are a constant nuisance. I wish one of the Japanese makers would come out with a modern non-cruiser luxury touring bike. May have to bite the bullet and buy a v-twin at some point, but I just can't imagine owning one after riding both a Harley and a Vulcan.

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post #3 of 42 Old Aug 6th, 2013, 9:34 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Have you considered the Concours 14, the Triumph Trophy SE, or (and I know it's a twin, but WOW! what a twin!) the Victory Vision?

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post #4 of 42 Old Aug 6th, 2013, 9:39 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

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Originally Posted by Dragonwing
Have you considered the Concours 14, the Triumph Trophy SE, or (and I know it's a twin, but WOW! what a twin!) the Victory Vision?
Yes, to all three.

Concours has no cruise control which is a "must have" on my list. I did try an FJR1300 recently as the 2013 now has cruise control, but it just isn't enough bike for two-up touring.

Just can't get past the looks of the Vision and the tiny side bags.

The Trophy SE looks really nice, but when I contacted my local dealer they said they do not offer test rides. I can't see buying a bike sans test ride.

Probably have to just suck it up and keep paying through the nose to keep my LT going.

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post #5 of 42 Old Aug 6th, 2013, 10:38 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
If you haven't signed off already, I'd be interested to hear your impressions of the Kawasaki. I came to my 2007 LT from a 1987 Voyager XII. I was hoping for a new more modern Voyager, but we got the retro cruiser Vulcan Voyager instead. I bought the LT as I wanted something modern that wasn't a cruiser style bike. I will never own another Honda so that left only BMW.

I mostly like the LT, but the parts cost and lack of reliability as compared to the Kawasaki are a constant nuisance. I wish one of the Japanese makers would come out with a modern non-cruiser luxury touring bike. May have to bite the bullet and buy a v-twin at some point, but I just can't imagine owning one after riding both a Harley and a Vulcan.
I came to the LT from a Vulcan, an 800 Classic, and never really got used to the ergonomics of the LT. I did take the Voyager for an extended test ride (I've known the shop owner for many years) and found it to be a very comfortable ride and a smooth handling machine. I know it does not have the power of the LT but that was never important to me. My main reason for going with the Voyager was there was really only one thing that needed changing for it to be a good fit for me, a shorter windscreen. Otherwise it has ABS, cruise control, a stereo that I can plug my iPhone into, and ample storage.
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post #6 of 42 Old Aug 6th, 2013, 11:42 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

The Honda ST1300 would be in consideration for me if they would just update the bike.



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post #7 of 42 Old Aug 6th, 2013, 11:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruivis
The Honda ST1300 would be in consideration for me if they would just update the bike.

My partner certainly agrees with you. We've been looking at the FJR1300, the ST100 and the Concours and right now the FJR has moved right of the league table with the addition of cruise control. Honda and Kawasaki really need to get with the program.
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post #8 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 6:19 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

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Originally Posted by markc
My partner certainly agrees with you. We've been looking at the FJR1300, the ST100 and the Concours and right now the FJR has moved right of the league table with the addition of cruise control. Honda and Kawasaki really need to get with the program.
Absolutely. It is amazing how far behind BMW the Japanese have fallen in technology. It is equally amazing how far BMW is behind the Japanese when it comes to reliability. We just can't seem to have a company that can do both simultaneously!

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post #9 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 6:32 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

the FJR1300 will eat the valveguides and you need an engine rebuild at 35,000 miles. How is that more reliable? They also had rear-end issues Stators burning up because they don't use a real alternator that generates a lot of power like the LT.

Go to the FJR forums and they have the same amount of problems that the LT does. They are not any more reliable. Plus 2 up touring on one is miserable for the pillon compared to the LT or even a harley. It's not a sport touring bike, it's a sportbike with some bags bolted to it. I really wanted one until the wife and I took one for a 2 hours test ride.

I was told, "if you buy that bike, you will be a single man again"

Currently riding a 2003 K1200LTC
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post #10 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 7:16 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
It is equally amazing how far BMW is behind the Japanese when it comes to reliability.
Side bar_

I guess that most of information in a chat room type forum is anecdotal and yours is your reality, but mine is quite different. Or maybe as some say, I drink the Kool-Aid!

My experience after 60,000+ miles on BMW's is quite different. 50,000 miles on an 02 LT were quite trouble free. One switch replaced under warranty.

12,000 miles on the new K1600 about the same. A minor switch problem replaced under warranty.

Now back to the LT farewell.........................

Dano
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post #11 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 7:17 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgray
the FJR1300 will eat the valveguides and you need an engine rebuild at 35,000 miles. How is that more reliable? They also had rear-end issues Stators burning up because they don't use a real alternator that generates a lot of power like the LT.

Go to the FJR forums and they have the same amount of problems that the LT does. They are not any more reliable. Plus 2 up touring on one is miserable for the pillon compared to the LT or even a harley. It's not a sport touring bike, it's a sportbike with some bags bolted to it. I really wanted one until the wife and I took one for a 2 hours test ride.

I was told, "if you buy that bike, you will be a single man again"
Tim, Tim, Tim...Having put 55,000 miles on my FJR and being a constant contributor to various FJR sites and was a member of a FJR riders group, I can say that your information is skewed. The valve guide issue was a limited problem with the earlier Gen 1 bikes. Yamaha was gracious to the point of honoring repairs even after the warrantee had expired. That problem was sorted out by the 2005 production run. Engine rebuilt at 35,000 miles? Check with "Warchild" on that one. He is well beyond 200,000 miles with just routine maintenance. I think I might have heard of maybe one final drive failing. Nothing like the flood of failures with Beemers.
Don't get me wrong ...I'm not cracking on Beemers...I own one and really like it. That might change if cost of ownership pushes me out of the market. As far as a reliability comparison between an LT and a Feej...I'd give a considerable edge to the Feej.
I agree that the FJR is more "Sport" oriented than "Touring" but like people riding "R" models...there are many couples who happily pack up the Feej and tour.

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post #12 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 7:47 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

We looked at the new Voyager.
Really liked the style even though I hoped that Kawi would bring back an upgrade to the VXII which is an incredible bike.
The deal breaker for us was that we couldn't both be on the bike at the same time.
Total load capacity ( not cargo room) is only 386# and for a bike playing in that market it's not acceptable.

Please let us know how your ownership experience progresses.
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post #13 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 8:36 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatStrat
Tim, Tim, Tim...Having put 55,000 miles on my FJR and being a constant contributor to various FJR sites and was a member of a FJR riders group, I can say that your information is skewed. The valve guide issue was a limited problem with the earlier Gen 1 bikes. Yamaha was gracious to the point of honoring repairs even after the warrantee had expired. That problem was sorted out by the 2005 production run. Engine rebuilt at 35,000 miles? Check with "Warchild" on that one. He is well beyond 200,000 miles with just routine maintenance. I think I might have heard of maybe one final drive failing. Nothing like the flood of failures with Beemers.
Don't get me wrong ...I'm not cracking on Beemers...I own one and really like it. That might change if cost of ownership pushes me out of the market. As far as a reliability comparison between an LT and a Feej...I'd give a considerable edge to the Feej.
I agree that the FJR is more "Sport" oriented than "Touring" but like people riding "R" models...there are many couples who happily pack up the Feej and tour.
Dont get me wrong, I really Liked the FJR and wanted one. 1 up it is a fantastic bike and a scary fast curve carving machine. The wife utterly hated the pillon comfort and she get's the final say. Everything I know of the bike is from reading the FJR forums for 2 months before deciding that it was unreliable and full of problems from the posts on the FJR sites as well as other sites, the ST forums have people that left the FJR due to failures, I was concerned about the spillover to other forums that there must have been merit to the complaints.


All I know is when I went looking for new bikes, I was scared away from the FJR fast due to the sheer number of complaints about it and that it was a guaranteed failure (from forum posts I read) not a 4% failure rate like the BMW had. Glad to hear the sorted it out because that was a catastrophic failure in design on yamaha's part (Like the 2'd gear Failure due to a $0.32 washer on all Ventures and Vmax bikes in the early 80's)

As for the flood of failures on BMW's you mention, I was told here that it's less than 10% have most of the failures and not a flood at all. Was everyone here lying to me before I bought my BMW?

Currently riding a 2003 K1200LTC

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post #14 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 11:32 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDiver
Side bar_

I guess that most of information in a chat room type forum is anecdotal and yours is your reality, but mine is quite different. Or maybe as some say, I drink the Kool-Aid!

My experience after 60,000+ miles on BMW's is quite different. 50,000 miles on an 02 LT were quite trouble free. One switch replaced under warranty.

12,000 miles on the new K1600 about the same. A minor switch problem replaced under warranty.

Now back to the LT farewell.........................
Yes, we all have unique experiences. So far I have had every problem "common" to the LT other than the clutch. Just had the FD rebuilt at 37,000 miles and expect be clutch will be next.

The failures are unique to each of us, but the required maintenance and the cost of parts is data. My LT requires about twice the scheduled maintenance of the Voyager I formerly owned. I just checked the maintenance for the Trophy SE at the intervals are nearly twice as long as the LT (10K vs. 6K) and the list of items is shorter. Don't know about parts cost for Triumph vs. BMW.

Definitely like the features and performance of the LT (except for clutch), but maintenance and repairs are way more than other brands. And the maintenance schedule and parts cost is not anecdotal.

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post #15 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 11:38 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgray
Dont get me wrong, I really Liked the FJR and wanted one. 1 up it is a fantastic bike and a scary fast curve carving machine. The wife utterly hated the pillon comfort and she get's the final say. Everything I know of the bike is from reading the FJR forums for 2 months before deciding that it was unreliable and full of problems from the posts on the FJR sites as well as other sites, the ST forums have people that left the FJR due to failures, I was concerned about the spillover to other forums that there must have been merit to the complaints.


All I know is when I went looking for new bikes, I was scared away from the FJR fast due to the sheer number of complaints about it and that it was a guaranteed failure (from forum posts I read) not a 4% failure rate like the BMW had. Glad to hear the sorted it out because that was a catastrophic failure in design on yamaha's part (Like the 2'd gear Failure due to a $0.32 washer on all Ventures and Vmax bikes in the early 80's)

As for the flood of failures on BMW's you mention, I was told here that it's less than 10% have most of the failures and not a flood at all. Was everyone here lying to me before I bought my BMW?

Don' know what FJR web sites you've gone to that has convinced you that FJR's are problematic. Here is a page from one of my favorite FJR websites concerning reliability and frequency of repair.
http://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index...-on-your-bike/

Concerning the component failure rate of LT's...10% is quite high if you ask me especially considering that BMW won't acknowledge the problems.

I have an 05 LT with 22,000 on the clock. There are more than a few components on this bike that I keep a close watch over hoping to discover a pending failure before it happens. I could list them, but I'm sure you know most of them already. I will say that when everything is in working order, the LT is one of the finest bikes I've ever ridden.

Good luck with your next purchase.

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post #16 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 11:54 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgray
the FJR1300 will eat the valveguides and you need an engine rebuild at 35,000 miles. How is that more reliable? They also had rear-end issues Stators burning up because they don't use a real alternator that generates a lot of power like the LT.

Go to the FJR forums and they have the same amount of problems that the LT does. They are not any more reliable. Plus 2 up touring on one is miserable for the pillon compared to the LT or even a harley. It's not a sport touring bike, it's a sportbike with some bags bolted to it. I really wanted one until the wife and I took one for a 2 hours test ride.

I was told, "if you buy that bike, you will be a single man again"
Having recently tested an FJR, I agree with you that it is not a two-up platform. I have not perused the FJR forums due to knowing it wasn't a fit for me. I do know that my three Kaws were way less trouble than the LT and several friends have Yammies with similar experience.

I have been perusing the Triumph forums and the Trophy SE had very little chatter about any serious problems, but then it is fairly new so likely too soon to draw conclusions.

Still searching for a bike with LT features and Kawasaki reliability and Harley dealer network!

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post #17 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 2:18 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodcounty
We looked at the new Voyager.
Really liked the style even though I hoped that Kawi would bring back an upgrade to the VXII which is an incredible bike.
The deal breaker for us was that we couldn't both be on the bike at the same time.
Total load capacity ( not cargo room) is only 386# and for a bike playing in that market it's not acceptable.

Please let us know how your ownership experience progresses.
I did take notice of the load capacity but since my only passenger is my camera gear I'm not concerned about that. If anything it provides a very real limit on both photo gear purchases and Little Debbie consumption.
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post #18 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 4:22 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

90% of the BMW LT bikes on the road having no problems for what looks like 200,000 miles and that is why I bought the LT.

Well actually reliability, and comfort for the wife as well as it's the only Luxury touring bike that doesn't look like a 1940's throwback.

Goldwings have a higher than 15% problem rate, Harleys have even higher, and after owning Yamaha for well over 30 years, They don't own up to problems until they are forced to as well. Ask guys how many times they have been stranded on their Venture because the ignition switch failed. Oil pump failures taking out the Engines on the V-Max Engines that forced yamaha to do a recall only after it was almost lawsuit time from owners. Then you have stators that fry themselves because the Regulator dumps excess power to ground running them at 100% output all the time, but that was the older bikes and they never owned up to that.

my personal experience of owning and riding yamaha's for years, they are no more reliable than a Honda or BMW. Granted I have only owned my BMW now for 40 days :-)

.

NOTE: my harley information comes from friends that barely put 6500 miles a year on their bikes and are constantly having them in the shop for repairs. One friend has a 2013 Electra Glide Ultra limited and it's been in the shop for ignition problems that left him stranded, and they had to open up the engine on a bike with less than 10,000 miles on it, he has been without the bike for 4 weeks under warranty, granted he is a worst case and is livid over it.

Currently riding a 2003 K1200LTC

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post #19 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 5:51 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Regarding maintenance issues for the LT and just 10% of the grouping having all of those.

I love my LT, its a 99 Canyon Red version. after 13 years of riding it I now have +70K miles on it which isnt alot compared to a good many people.

I have limped home from out of state or across state 4 times during this time.

1- Clutch slippage issue (You Know Why LOL)

2- Broken shifter linkage, try getting across state and having to fill up in 4 gear LOL.

3- Rear drive immenant failure with "Howling Noise" recorded on tape! Ridewest replaced it even though I was out of warrenty. I guess it pays to buy from a dealer in the long run.

4- Starter Solenoid failure due to low battary on startup.

Anyway my point is that I will just keep paying for repairs until either the price of a good used K1600 comes my way or I just stay satisfied with what I have.

BTW I have notice just recently some intermetant clutch slippage which means that the pesky little rear seal is acting up again.

O I cant wait for that since when it is torn down I will have to get it repainted.The big questions is do I keep "Canyon Red" or do something different?

Ideas are always welcomed



Quote:
Originally Posted by timgray
Dont get me wrong, I really Liked the FJR and wanted one. 1 up it is a fantastic bike and a scary fast curve carving machine. The wife utterly hated the pillon comfort and she get's the final say. Everything I know of the bike is from reading the FJR forums for 2 months before deciding that it was unreliable and full of problems from the posts on the FJR sites as well as other sites, the ST forums have people that left the FJR due to failures, I was concerned about the spillover to other forums that there must have been merit to the complaints.


All I know is when I went looking for new bikes, I was scared away from the FJR fast due to the sheer number of complaints about it and that it was a guaranteed failure (from forum posts I read) not a 4% failure rate like the BMW had. Glad to hear the sorted it out because that was a catastrophic failure in design on yamaha's part (Like the 2'd gear Failure due to a $0.32 washer on all Ventures and Vmax bikes in the early 80's)

As for the flood of failures on BMW's you mention, I was told here that it's less than 10% have most of the failures and not a flood at all. Was everyone here lying to me before I bought my BMW?
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post #20 of 42 Old Aug 7th, 2013, 7:53 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgray
90% of the BMW LT bikes on the road having no problems for what looks like 200,000 miles and that is why I bought the LT.

Well actually reliability, and comfort for the wife as well as it's the only Luxury touring bike that doesn't look like a 1940's throwback.

Goldwings have a higher than 15% problem rate, Harleys have even higher, and after owning Yamaha for well over 30 years, They don't own up to problems until they are forced to as well. Ask guys how many times they have been stranded on their Venture because the ignition switch failed. Oil pump failures taking out the Engines on the V-Max Engines that forced yamaha to do a recall only after it was almost lawsuit time from owners. Then you have stators that fry themselves because the Regulator dumps excess power to ground running them at 100% output all the time, but that was the older bikes and they never owned up to that.

my personal experience of owning and riding yamaha's for years, they are no more reliable than a Honda or BMW. Granted I have only owned my BMW now for 40 days :-)

.

NOTE: my harley information comes from friends that barely put 6500 miles a year on their bikes and are constantly having them in the shop for repairs. One friend has a 2013 Electra Glide Ultra limited and it's been in the shop for ignition problems that left him stranded, and they had to open up the engine on a bike with less than 10,000 miles on it, he has been without the bike for 4 weeks under warranty, granted he is a worst case and is livid over it.
Your ability to fabricate statistics is impressive!

Data on motorcycle problem rates is notoriously hard to come by, but the closest I've seen to real data came in the May issue of CR.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...cles/index.htm

You have to be a subscriber to see the data, but I am so I just grabbed my May issue and turned to page 58. According to the CR survey of 4,680 bikes bought new during the prior four years (2009 - 2012) the following problem rates were found:

Yamaha - 11%
Kawasaki - 13%
Honda - 14%
Harley - 24%
BMW - 30%

Case closed.

A couple of interesting notes are:

1. The most troublesome bikes are the most satisfying to their owners. Harley owners were most likely to buy a Harley again followed closely by BMW and Honda. Yamaha and Kawasaki trailed by a fair bit. Clearly Harley and BMW have the strongest Kool-Aid.

2. Touring bikes were the most troublesome (27%) with the least troublesome being sport-touring, cruisers and sport bikes (19-16%). In the middle were dual- sports (23%).

I thought the above might be due to differences in miles ridden, but there is a footnote that says the data was adjusted to eliminate differences linked solely to the age and mileage of the bikes.

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post #21 of 42 Old Aug 8th, 2013, 7:30 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
Data on motorcycle problem rates is notoriously hard to come by, but the closest I've seen to real data came in the May issue of CR.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...cles/index.htm

You have to be a subscriber to see the data, but I am so I just grabbed my May issue and turned to page 58. According to the CR survey of 4,680 bikes bought new during the prior four years (2009 - 2012) the following problem rates were found:

Yamaha - 11%
Kawasaki - 13%
Honda - 14%
Harley - 24%
BMW - 30%

Case closed.

A couple of interesting notes are:

1. The most troublesome bikes are the most satisfying to their owners. Harley owners were most likely to buy a Harley again followed closely by BMW and Honda. Yamaha and Kawasaki trailed by a fair bit. Clearly Harley and BMW have the strongest Kool-Aid.

2. Touring bikes were the most troublesome (27%) with the least troublesome being sport-touring, cruisers and sport bikes (19-16%). In the middle were dual- sports (23%).

I thought the above might be due to differences in miles ridden, but there is a footnote that says the data was adjusted to eliminate differences linked solely to the age and mileage of the bikes.

Guess those are the facts, but I'm really glad that I never saw that before making my buying decision almost 10 years ago. I really would have missed out on some of the best riding I've ever done. Also two of the best motorcycles I've ever owned.

Having owned several items on Consumers report that were either "do not buy" or 'troublesome" or pick your negative , I have been very very lucky. I have received and read the magazine for years, find it helpful, but really do question many of the "reports."

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

12 K1600 GTL
02 K1200 LT (gone but not forgotten)
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post #22 of 42 Old Aug 8th, 2013, 7:58 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Consumer Report's is not considered particularly unbiased info by many in the US auto industry. While that could have been called "sour grapes" for a long time, when they basically said they would quit giving Toyotas a blanket pass a few years ago pretty well exposed that their methods are...suspect.

Anyway. I've only owned one new vehicle in my life; I tend to buy used vehicles. I don't normally cringe at the idea of a ten year old vehicle, certainly not as a side-toy rather than primary transport.

In 2005, I bought a 1995 Yamaha Virago. I brought it to two separate Yamaha dealers. The first, when they heard that I had a Virago in my van, looked at me and said, "we don't really like working on those, especially that old(??)...but what's the problem?". The second, to get to the service department, you had to walk past a whole lot of new Viragos in their show room, only to be told, "We don't like working on Viragos...and we won't touch one that's ten years or older" (by this time, it was 11 years old). Didn't even want to hear why I was there. And didn't seemed concerned when I asked if they tell people that before they buy a new one from their sales floor.

I've never got an authoritative answer on the why no one wanted to work on Viragos... or why the magic ten year number, but I've been told that getting parts is sometimes near impossible.

Based on that...I'm not buying another Yamaha.

My local BMW dealership eagerly welcomes my 1985 K100 and my 2002 LT. One piece of plastic (which unfortunately held the license plate!) for the k100 took months to get, but it did ultimately show up, after BMW made a new production run...for a 25+ year old bike.

I fail to see the Japanese bike makers as heros...nor BMW as the great evil. Your milage may well vary... Mine may some day, too. But so far, I'm a BMW fan.
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post #23 of 42 Old Aug 8th, 2013, 8:21 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
Your ability to fabricate statistics is impressive!

Data on motorcycle problem rates is notoriously hard to come by, but the closest I've seen to real data came in the May issue of CR.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...cles/index.htm

You have to be a subscriber to see the data, but I am so I just grabbed my May issue and turned to page 58. According to the CR survey of 4,680 bikes bought new during the prior four years (2009 - 2012) the following problem rates were found:

Yamaha - 11%
Kawasaki - 13%
Honda - 14%
Harley - 24%
BMW - 30%

Case closed.

A couple of interesting notes are:

1. The most troublesome bikes are the most satisfying to their owners. Harley owners were most likely to buy a Harley again followed closely by BMW and Honda. Yamaha and Kawasaki trailed by a fair bit. Clearly Harley and BMW have the strongest Kool-Aid.

2. Touring bikes were the most troublesome (27%) with the least troublesome being sport-touring, cruisers and sport bikes (19-16%). In the middle were dual- sports (23%).

I thought the above might be due to differences in miles ridden, but there is a footnote that says the data was adjusted to eliminate differences linked solely to the age and mileage of the bikes.

Something you left out that is of interest,

"The motorcycle owners surveyed all purchased their bikes new and reported the repair issues that they required within the initial four years of ownership. Most of the problems reported require relatively low-cost fixes. .... 75% of all repairs had an out of pocket cost of less than $200"

That does not say "case closed" to me. But let's look for more detail....

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...rong/index.htm (A link that someone can actually read without having a subscription to the magazine.)

Shows that the most reported of the problems are minor items. Accessories like the heated seats, radio, GPS, etc... Yes if I bought a new $25,000 bike and the radio dies, I will be livid, but that is not a real motorcycle problem... the radio does not force me to call a tow truck. And I can see that because the touring bikes come with a lot more of the useless stuff that they have a higher rate. BMW's have far more of that stuff on the bikes than any other bike, so again the rates are higher.

Oh and a full 16% are fuel problems that the article even states have a high probability to owner error of improper off season storage.

I want to see the raw data, sadly they will not share that, and I am betting the raw data is not as granular as it should be. The whole "report" is incredibly light on any details that would be needed for anyone to make an informed decision from it.

Currently riding a 2003 K1200LTC

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post #24 of 42 Old Aug 8th, 2013, 11:26 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

I too am glad I didn't consider Consumer Reports' opinion before buying my LT as with other vehicles I've been happy with that got less than glowing scores from CR. It seems they've always had a pro-Japanese bias for whatever reason.

Jim
2003 BMW K1200LT (my favorite 2 wheeled land yacht)
2008 Yamaha FJR1300 (recent addition)
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post #25 of 42 Old Aug 8th, 2013, 12:08 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHolland
.... I brought it to two separate Yamaha dealers. The first, when they heard that I had a Virago in my van, looked at me and said, "we don't really like working on those, especially that old(??)...but what's the problem?". The second, to get to the service department, you had to walk past a whole lot of new Viragos in their show room, only to be told, "We don't like working on Viragos...and we won't touch one that's ten years or older" (by this time, it was 11 years old). .....

I discovered this as well several times, every single Yamaha dealer around here does not have anyone on staff competent enough to work on older bikes. Heck after helping a friend restore a 1976 XS750 to like new, the local Yamma dealer screwed up even a tire change. they had the spacer on the wrong side of the front wheel and nearly destroyed the front caliper. You could barely push the bike it was rubbing that hard, so the tech KNEW something was wrong.

Currently riding a 2003 K1200LTC

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post #26 of 42 Old Aug 8th, 2013, 6:34 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDiver
Guess those are the facts, but I'm really glad that I never saw that before making my buying decision almost 10 years ago. I really would have missed out on some of the best riding I've ever done. Also two of the best motorcycles I've ever owned.

Having owned several items on Consumers report that were either "do not buy" or 'troublesome" or pick your negative , I have been very very lucky. I have received and read the magazine for years, find it helpful, but really do question many of the "reports."
Same here. Unfortunately, I know of no other source for motorcycle reliability data. I haven't seen the data yet for the most recent Iron Butt, but for several years BMW was not making a very good showing.

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post #27 of 42 Old Aug 29th, 2013, 2:31 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Farewell to the LT

I've now put 1000 miles on the Voyager and since I was asked to comment after I had put on some miles here are some observations. They are strictly my impressions and in no particular order.

I have found the Voyager to be much more comfortable to ride than my LT was. Apart from the LT I have ridden cruisers since the mid-1980's and I never really adapted to the LT's riding position.

I realize that it is 10 years newer but the sound system is several orders of magnitude better.

I find that the Voyager, which has a 1700cc V-twin, has more than enough power for me. Of course I thought that of my Vulcan 800 and my LT had way more power than I would ever use.

The absence of linked brakes at low speed and the much, much lower center of mass has made me much more confident manuovering in the garage and at parking lots. I have yet to come close to dropping this bike and I could not say that for the LT in the first two weeks I owned it.

The Voyager is, right now, averaging about 37 mpg while the LT was always around 50. Couple that with a 5.3 gallon tank (with a low fuel warning when there is one gallon of fuel left) and the range is quite a bit less than the LT. I don't see this as a big issue since my backside needs a break after about 150 miles anyway but with my partner's R1100RT and its 7 gallon tank it is clear we will be stopping more often. This may cause a little strife.

The windshield is not adjustable and the stock windshield was 16.5" tall, which is fine if you are 7'6", which I am not. I replaces that with a 12" windscreen, the installation of which took about 20 min, which is the right height for me.

I cannot comment on the passenger seat since I don't carry a passenger. The cases have enough room for what I carry to work each day and I have a bungie net for anything else.

I'm really happy with my purchase and I sure my old LT will make a fine bike for someone else as well.
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post #28 of 42 Old Aug 29th, 2013, 4:50 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonwing
Have you considered the Concours 14, the Triumph Trophy SE, or (and I know it's a twin, but WOW! what a twin!) the Victory Vision?
What about the Crosscountry

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post #29 of 42 Old Aug 29th, 2013, 5:13 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonwing
Have you considered the Concours 14, the Triumph Trophy SE, or (and I know it's a twin, but WOW! what a twin!) the Victory Vision?

I am much more comfortable with the cruiser riding position so the Concours and the Trophy did not interest me. I looked at the Victory but the Vision's styling does not appeal to me and the Interstate was almost $4000 more so it fell off the list fairly early.
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post #30 of 42 Old Aug 29th, 2013, 6:57 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

I'm scared of my LT breaking.

It's also the best (for me and my wants) bike I ever ridden, by far. I'm uncomfortable on a Goldwing and an Ultra Classic, but the LT is perfect.

So I'll probably pay through the nose because it sucks being uncomfortable on a motorcycle.

In the last 2 years...
'08 R1200GS---Loved it!!!
'01 H-D Ultra Classic---Hated it!!! (aka. the infernal noise making machine)
'02 K1200LT(black)---Even my GF is jealous of this one.
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post #31 of 42 Old Aug 29th, 2013, 7:19 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Voyager, I'm not sure where Lawrenceville Pa. is but what kind of a dealer won't let you test a trophy, how stupid is that. Our triumph dealer in Coopersburg welcomes people to test the trophy. I also was interested in the Trophy but all the Triumph blogs I read pointed to Trophies having lots of issues and several pissed off owners not getting answers as to why certain failures were happening. First year issues I guess.
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post #32 of 42 Old Aug 29th, 2013, 10:27 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by norton
Voyager, I'm not sure where Lawrenceville Pa. is but what kind of a dealer won't let you test a trophy, how stupid is that. Our triumph dealer in Coopersburg welcomes people to test the trophy. I also was interested in the Trophy but all the Triumph blogs I read pointed to Trophies having lots of issues and several pissed off owners not getting answers as to why certain failures were happening. First year issues I guess.
Yes, probably not a good idea to buy a first year bike.

The triumph dealer locator is messed up. It lists the nearest dealer to me (16929 Zip) as Triumph of Windber at 53 miles away. However, this is far from correct. The actual nearest dealer is in Canandaigua, NY and when I emailed about a test ride they said they don't put either gas or a battery in their bikes in order to preserve both. I guess with an attitude like that they probably have their bikes on the floor for a long time making preservation important!

They did offer a really good price, but I replied back that I won't buy a bike without a test ride. Got no response at all to that email. Oh well, their loss. My FD had recently failed and I was in a buying mood.

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post #33 of 42 Old Aug 29th, 2013, 11:12 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

[QUOTE=Voyager]Your ability to fabricate statistics is impressive!

1. The most troublesome bikes are the most satisfying to their owners. Harley owners were most likely to buy a Harley again followed closely by BMW and Honda.



My first LT passed 140K - towing a trailer most of the time for 10 years.

My second passed 70K.

My current is on 30K - and I'm leaving for a two week trip next Tuesday, two up - towing again. I guess you could say it's my go to bike for two up touring.

Oh yeah, the new K1600 GT is staying home, although it would probably be my first choice for solo ld rides.

I've had minor issues with the first two LT's. No expensive failures, and since I do my own ROUTINE maintenance I've saved a wad of cash. Um, why did I underline and capitalize ROUTINE?

I am getting SO tired of the whiners on this site. There is no perfect ******* motorcycle.

Ride the sonomobeach, when it breaks - fix it!

If you are so incompetent (speaking here to the collective) that you depend on a dealer to make you whole you should probably take up another hobby. You obviously can't handle the $$ or emotional stress - and resort to bad mouthing every marque on the internet to satisfy some latent issues regarding your inability to actually FIX anything - no matter how minor.

GRAB SOME FREAKIN' WRENCHES AND MAN UP!


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post #34 of 42 Old Aug 29th, 2013, 11:23 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Go get 'em Ronnie!!!!
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post #35 of 42 Old Aug 29th, 2013, 11:56 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Ya' know Frank, we're witnessing the birth of a whole new generation of men:

PUSSIES!

Think I'll go chop some wood, damn it.


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post #36 of 42 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 9:55 am
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
Ya' know Frank, we're witnessing the birth of a whole new generation of men:

PUSSIES!

Think I'll go chop some wood, damn it.
C'mon, Ron, stop pussy footin' around and tell us how you really feel!

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post #37 of 42 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 12:13 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by KI_OTE
I'm scared of my LT breaking.
Like Dan and many others I've got over 100K on two LTs and very few problems. The ones that are notable were self inflicted - burned up clutch due to rolling on the throttle before complete lock up. Keep your RPMs around 1500 or so when starting to keep the clutch plate in good shape.

I'm mechanically challenged and a so I've had to support my local dealership $$$ on a regular basis for oil changes and what not. And yes I still bitch about the high cost as is my constitutional right


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2005 Charcoal LT - 48K
2003 Antracite LT - 76K
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post #38 of 42 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 1:34 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

RonKMiller;I just have to ask the LT you have the140,000 miles;; did you have to put a new clutch in that;I was just wondering what my Potential is sense I have 57,000 on mine
Bought with 18,000 miles and all I had to do so far is my maintenance and replace my brake lines with Spiegler brake lines and that was just to do it before I had a problem with them because of this Great forum.

Gary
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post #39 of 42 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 1:39 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

Hey Ron, if it weren't for these bikes breaking down, what would everyone write about? They probably wouldn't even be here because they would be having so much more fun riding so much more. That would lead to a decrease in readership/subscribers, and that would lead to less exposure for your Kontour seats.
So, there seems to be a method to the madness. In other words, the bitching is a necessary evil
You do have have a point, though. Some of the military guys I work with are always wondering if some of our Seals have man cards because they seem to be clueless about changing a four-lug 12" tire on a Kawasaki Teryx, but I don't mind because it's job security for me, and I'd rather change tires all day long on those than these:

BTW, what's wrong with pussies? I like pussies.
Want to see some pussies? Ok. here you go:

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Big D is my neck of the woods

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prior:
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post #40 of 42 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 5:22 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

[QUOTE=RonKMiller]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
Your ability to fabricate statistics is impressive!

1. The most troublesome bikes are the most satisfying to their owners. Harley owners were most likely to buy a Harley again followed closely by BMW and Honda.



My first LT passed 140K - towing a trailer most of the time for 10 years.

My second passed 70K.

My current is on 30K - and I'm leaving for a two week trip next Tuesday, two up - towing again. I guess you could say it's my go to bike for two up touring.

Oh yeah, the new K1600 GT is staying home, although it would probably be my first choice for solo ld rides.

I've had minor issues with the first two LT's. No expensive failures, and since I do my own ROUTINE maintenance I've saved a wad of cash. Um, why did I underline and capitalize ROUTINE?

I am getting SO tired of the whiners on this site. There is no perfect ******* motorcycle.

Ride the sonomobeach, when it breaks - fix it!

If you are so incompetent (speaking here to the collective) that you depend on a dealer to make you whole you should probably take up another hobby. You obviously can't handle the $$ or emotional stress - and resort to bad mouthing every marque on the internet to satisfy some latent issues regarding your inability to actually FIX anything - no matter how minor.

GRAB SOME FREAKIN' WRENCHES AND MAN UP!
Yes, that is an interesting paradox. I think it is a measure of how easily some can suspend reality.

Once you have forked out the bucks for a BMW, you surely don't want to admit you may have been snookered. And forking out BMW money for 1950s technology requires even greater delusional abilities on the part of HD owners!

I would venture I have been as deep into an LT as you have and if not, I will be after my clutch replacement this winter. I don't mind wrenching, but I really would rather be riding and the prime riding season downtime is particularly annoying. And I have done all maintenance and repairs since my warranty expired at about the 21K mark. The 24K was particularly fun as it took two weeks including the wait for 4 buckets from Bob's BMW.

As for manning up with the wrenches, aren't you the one who cuts the seat heater wires because you are too wimpy (or lazy?) to remove a panel to properly unplug the connector?


That one still cracks me up. Not sure what is worse, doing something like that or admitting in public that you did it.

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post #41 of 42 Old Aug 30th, 2013, 6:02 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

I'll just chime in here for a few words. Until I test rode my '99, and under duress I might add, being almost forced by the dealer in Tallahassee to ride it... I thought I was a died in the wool GoldWing rider. I've had 3 of them starting back when it was just another bike in '75 and came completely nude.

But, when I came back to the dealer about 3 years ago on the test ride, I was right flustered that I was going to have to ride the 2002 GL back to Valdosta instead of the LT. I never had in mind to purchase one, ever. BMW,,, those high and mights riders with the pretty colorful riding suits on, bla, bla, bla. Then the dealer wanted me to offer him a price. I did so low that he almost just walked away, but then took it and I've been riding it almost daily for the past 3 years. Put over 45,000 on it along with the GL.

Now... the reason I was blown away with the 'old 99' bike was the handling, the comfort of the ride which is attributed to about the best suspension design in the land of bikes and it's quickness. Not the fastest I've ever sat, but how quick you can do things on it. Get it up to over 20 and it drops about 200 pounds as opposed to how other bikes feel.

I'm not rich by any stretch, but I never remember thinking, "Damn, this thing is going to be a bitch to fix!" It didn't matter then, it don't matter now and it don't matter with the new to me '07. It might not be the bike for everybody and probably isn't. But I haven't had much go wrong that I couldn't fix or have fixed and it makes me just smile when I get on either one of them and pull out of the house.

Guys that are coming in here and worrying about this and that breaking or costing something to fix. Don't worry, you're spending a little too much keyboard time and not enough smile time. Go ride.
Just my thoughts at the moment

Tommy
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__________________________________________________ __
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post #42 of 42 Old Aug 31st, 2013, 1:04 pm
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Re: Farewell to the LT

[QUOTE=Voyager]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller

As for manning up with the wrenches, aren't you the one who cuts the seat heater wires because you are too wimpy (or lazy?) to remove a panel to properly unplug the connector?


That one still cracks me up. Not sure what is worse, doing something like that or admitting in public that you did it.
Yep - too lazy. But I did a nice job of joining them together again with crimped telephone line butt connectors and 3M heat shrink tubing - the GOOD stuff with the glue inside.


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