Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 5:47 pm Thread Starter
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Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I just found this video on youtube by chance. I never heard anybody talking so badly about the LT and he spent a whole 25mns just doing that in this video. While he raises some true points the way he describes the LT being such a bad bike is purely ridiculous in my opinion.. He must have had a bad day with the one he was working on at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxbO7QV067s

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post #2 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 6:10 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I can't believe I wasted 15 minutes watching this idiot!
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post #3 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 6:20 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

This guy's a knucklehead (in the video). Why would anyone take ANY bike to a "professional" like this?

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post #4 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 6:22 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

evidently he does not like the LT

perhaps he was asked to leave (or be fired) - seems like he is more upset with BMW than the bike
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post #5 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 6:34 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

He's a bmw trained mechanic, who has been involved from the beginning with the LT. As such, he's been through the growing pains with the bike. As a mechanic, we look at stuff differently. We look at issues like how well was something designed initially, and how is it to service or repair when the inevitable time comes. I completely understand his frustration, because you have a company telling you "this is the pinnacle of motorcycle technology" and then you see recurring issues like failing clutches and FD's because of improper setup of poor engineering.

Now let me show how that relates to the non - mechanic consumer, and how it affects resale value.

First, folks who are the original purchaser of the LT fully expect a motorcycle marvel. When the find out it has flaws common to the many of the units, and that they are going to have to pay the mechanic to rebuild said part at considerable expense, the FIRST person to hear the complaining and negotiations for price is the mechanic. As mechanics, that gets old. I mean, we didn't design it, we didn't break it, why are you asking us to fix it and save YOU money, etc...so that builds a resentment towards the vehicle from the mechanic. Kinda like "oh no, not another one of THOSE" because it also means an unhappy customer right from the start.

Second, Resale value. If you consider a comparable GW vs an LT, the GW has a much higher resale value. Is it that superior of a motorcycle? Probably not, but it doesn't have a reputation of blowing the final drive in BF North Dakota and leaving you stranded, either. LT's are bashed internet wide for reliability issues, GW's are not. This causes the LT's to have a low resale value, as original owners dump them for fear of a large inpending failure and repair bill.

Iin my opinion, you will see the LT's being resold until they are in the hands of the "right" person. That's the guy who can maintain and fix his own LT. He doesn't rely on the dealer, except for parts. He comes to internet forums (me, here) and learns all the known issues and fixes, and becomes knowledgeable in his bike. He becomes an enthusiast. The Lt lives on though such owners.

Finally, Chris Harris, from that video, isn't an enthusiast of the LT. he's burned out on what was touted to be the marvel of 2 wheels being no more than any other bike once you get past the slick styling. He's entitled to his opinion, as you are to yours. His, IMO is born from experience, which I have learned is a great teacher. Steve
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post #6 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 8:22 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Hmmm he does raise some good points (e.g. oil filler and sight glass etc are pretty poorly designed), but I'm not sure I'd want to take my bike to a guy who has so much disrespect. Made me wonder if he'd had a brew or two actually. The best mechanic for me is one who knows his stuff (he does seem to so I guess "check" there), tells the truth (largely the tech spec stuff he mentions is accurate except for his fuel economy comments, so 3/4 check there) and respects a machine(fail there) and its owner.

As a marketing exec, I'm not sure what he's expecting to gain from this video - who would take their bike of any brand to someone who comes across as so opinionated that he won't listen (not having met him, who knows whether that's true or not, but customer perception is reality). He's probably trying to impress people with his knowledge, but he's not helping his business, unless of course he doesn't want to be in that business any more. There are better ways to tell his story than this.

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post #7 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 8:54 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

He calls it like he sees it and he is entitled to his opinion. Things he didn't knock but could have, IABS, terrible headlight, terrible driver's seat, having to remove the transmission to service the starter or altinator, how easy the bike rolls off the side stand.

Things he said that I don't agree with, poor fuel mileage, poor wind protection, poor windshield. The LT with it's 6 gallon tank will nearly go 300 miles, lets see a Goldwing do that. The fairing on a LT does a very good job of keeping you dry and warm in winter and those little adjustable wings do a great job of directing air onto the rider when it's hot. My windshield at least is very clear and it is stock.

I've watched other videos of his and he displays the same type of attitude toward BMW and how they designed stuff. I usually find him entertaining and he does offer some good advise on how to fix stuff on our bikes.
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post #8 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 8:57 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Any "mechanic" truly capable of informed statements regarding mechanical design should go ahead and get an engineering degree so s/he can actually achieve credibility.

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post #9 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 9:34 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

All I hear is more negative BS,
I certainly don't know it all but, I have been some kind of mechanic my whole life,

I worked on everything from motorcyles to million dollar machinery
that had many more millions of dollars of research and development to bring them to market,
and they all had "issues" and design flaws that required "upgrades" and numerous repairs and changes
you could take just about any piece of machinery on the planet,
pick it apart and find design flaws from your basic household toaster to the space shuttle.

If the LT is such a P.O.S. why are there so many riders right here on this forum
that have ridden hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles???

I am so tired of hearing about the final drive,
it has bean beat to death for over ten years now,
sure it's a design flaw, get over it.

We have long ago established that approximately 4% of the earlier (pre- 2005) drives failed,
that means 96% did not,.......hello!!!

even if you have the BMW shop repair it we're talking about a $400 fix,
I spend damn near that on a set of tires a couple times a year.

So.... how many billions did they spend on the space shuttle?
and what was their percentage of failure??


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post #10 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 9:39 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkchris
Any "mechanic" truly capable of informed statements regarding mechanical design should go ahead and get an engineering degree so s/he can actually achieve credibility.
I very rarely take comments on the internet to heart, but I find this to be offensive. I am a mechanic. I have exceptional credibility with anyone I work for, and I do not have an engineering degree. Your statement is truly uninformed. Steve
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post #11 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 9:54 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo

So.... how many billions did they spend on the space shuttle?
and what was their percentage of failure??
I just happened to read the answer to that in "Finding Florida" a very interesting book: Approximate 15 billion a year for NASA over the last 50 years!

OK, back to bashing the LT, my favorite bike up until the K1600...

Dano
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post #12 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 10:51 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Ok, I made it to 3:07. Couldn't take it anymore.

First of all this guy's attitude is completely fried, and it makes his entire assessment suspect. He says that the bike, starting with a full tank, nearly ran out of fuel on a 120 mile test loop? Now you know that's complete bull.

But let's back up 1 min; at the introduction of the bike in San Antonio he says he had to endure the "bullshit orating of BMW specialist and fricken corporate pin heads".

How are you going to get an honest review out of this nut case. He'd have more credibility if he just came out and said - here's why I'm so down on this brand, model, etc.

Can't imagine listening to all 25 min of this tortured diatribe.


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post #13 of 55 Old Jul 5th, 2013, 11:18 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I didn't even make it to 3 minutes. I did not see anything that says he is a BMW tech just a tech, hell, I can call myself a tech, I change the oil etc. He referenced how small the tank is..really? Ran out of gas nearly after 120 miles? Really? Mine still has well over half a tank at that point. And a reference point, the first time my LT went into the shop after I got it, I had to show the BMW tech where the load shed relay bolt is on the starter (it was missing) and he was just going to slap in any old bolt he could find to fit. Just because you are a tech does not mean you know what you are doing. That guy just needs to go run flat out at 100 + mph some more and get over it.


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post #14 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 3:14 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Well. He brings up some good points about design flaws. Hell some I've bitched about. But he also is full of it with the Fuel range comment. COME ON!! I get better MPG than a GW. Does the bike have design flaws? Sure . Does a Gold Wing? Sure it does. Does a Victory? Sure.. Show me a machine that's perfect. And I'll show you a Flying Bigfoot. There has never been a bike I owned that didn't have flaws specific to that model bike.But it's in his delivery. He comes off being very bias. Tonight for example. I just had to pull the left side of the fairing off to correct bad wiring and pulled my left Moto light off the caliper to find a broken wire in the jacket wire, and had to slice the jacket open to fix it.. Did I like it? hell no.. But it's like any machine.it has it's quirks. Take the good with the bad.But with some of the trouble I had, I'm still on my LT. Cause I do indeed love it, despite the issues. Would I trade it for a Goldwing?? No..

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post #15 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 7:21 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMartin
I can't believe I wasted 15 minutes watching this idiot!
Yea I stopped at 3 minutes. What a bunch of BS.

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post #16 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 8:09 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I watched the whole thing and I wanted to slap the guy. I became wary, too, when he said he almost ran out of fuel on a 120 mile loop. I agree with the tuning down of the motor as a mistake. Can't see the reasoning there. The LT is a pain to work on but I still love it. I've been stranded by it in Grand Junction but I bought another one anyway. I fixed it and I rode it some more. I wouldn't trade it for a GW. And I didn't buy it to resell it..................

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post #17 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 8:36 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I watched the whole video just to see what all the fuss was about. I knew I was in for a "treat" when he included this verbiage in his video's caption:

"If the language bothers you... FYYFF! And if you don't know what that means then you truly are among the new Kool-Aid sipping BMW customers that BMWNA was pursuing in 1999."

OK, so if we ignore his language - which I have to assume is his way of injecting sarcasm/humor into his admitted rant - he flat out says he doesn't want to work on these bikes. I'd think as an independent tech that he'd welcome the LT in his shop because it means more labor hours for most maintenance jobs and that's how he makes a living.

Other points aside, I've always thought how instructive it would be to have an official BMW Motorrad rep residing on this site to answer questions about why they designed this or that, or why they did something a certain way. A BMW engineer should be able to slice this rant up into little pieces with facts, design history, and experience... and he should be able to say "yes, we didn't do a good job of XYZ"

Near the end of the video he lists the things that should have been done differently/better. Seems to me all those items exist today on a K1600, so why does he limit his BMW shop to 2004 and older model years? Would he not work on a newer R1200RT, GS, or other models?

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post #18 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 8:46 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

The guys delivery "is" condescending. Having said that...he has a few valid points. This is not a common mans motorcycle. If you can't afford to maintain the "greater than mean" frequency of repair...you should purchase something that has a better track record of reliability.
I will say that when everything with this bike is operating properly...it is a pleasure to ride. But if you are a person of limited funds and/or mechanical ability...buy the Honda. Just saying.

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post #19 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 9:09 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
...so why does he limit his BMW shop to 2004 and older model years? Would he not work on a newer R1200RT, GS, or other models?
He cant afford to buy the new computer system diagnostic hardware. Honestly with his attitude he probably doesn't get much work and just can not afford to buy new tools.

I know his public rant will drive away a LOT of work, I personally will recommend people stay away from his shop just from his video rant. My first impression is that this guy is not a professional, as he does not act professional.
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post #20 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 9:29 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I'm not getting the attitude, most everything he's saying is correct. By way of apology, I'm wondering what a long term, honest, Harley tech would say about their bikes.

Is it a pig? yeah. Does it have a cowbell for a rear brake? yeah. Do you need a flashlight to check the oil? yeah.

Having worked on it, I'll heartily admit it's a freeking pain in the ass.

I'm happy with, and I love the bike. It's been as reliable as the sunrise. But I cannot fault pretty much all of what he's saying. (at the 20 minute mark)

("and a bike that weighs 900 lbs should have a central vac." I laughed. )

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post #21 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 9:42 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Hahahahaha.... Laughing all the way though it.
I've watched a few of his service videos on older beemers in the past, usually find them quite entertaining and his rough-as-guts condescending attitude always seems to be aimed at BMW designers. I think he has a love-hate relationship with the marque..... calls a spade a turkey.

Maybe he's just watched too many episodes of the 2 Pauly's.... I just dont think he gives a shit what we think, read his responses to the comments, he readily answers a lot of questions.
He said it's his opinion and was having a rant.... I'm just taking it for what it's presented as...
And look forward to my next ride on my favourite bike, despite its flaws.

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post #22 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 9:56 am Thread Starter
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I have owned my 99 LT for 5 + years now. Put 43k miles on it during that time. While it has not been trouble free, I had some few problems (e.g. FD failure, broken shifter link), overall I did not have more issues than most of all the other bikes I have owned in my life. The ride is still fantastic. It feels very secure and has all the bells and whistles I can think about. Never had any problem with peeling paint unlike he mentions in his video. Actually the bike looks almost as good as new. People cannot believe it is a 1999 model. My only real complaint about this bike if I have one is that, even after 5+ years riding it, it is still feels very top heavy. Since I am pretty short (5f7") it find I feel uncomfortable at very low speed. I would not mind having a little bit more humph from the engine either. However, when I start thinking what could be a possible replacement bike I cannot find one that has everything I now want beside going for the 1600cc,, which price wise is not reasonable for me. Still have one kid to send to college I have learnt to appreciate all what the LT gives me. The LT put the bar very high. I never had a bike I love so much and from all the members on this forum I know this is a shared feeling.

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post #23 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 9:57 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Sounds to me like someone who gets frustrated easily and then throws his tools across the room in a hissy fit. I wouldn’t let this guy change the oil in my lawn mower let alone trust him with my life.
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post #24 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 10:13 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDiver
I just happened to read the answer to that in "Finding Florida" a very interesting book: Approximate 15 billion a year for NASA over the last 50 years!....
Sorry Dan, but I'm still curious about the space shuttle, since Hans brought it up. I'm guessing that $15b is the yearly operating budget for NASA, on average. I don't think the space shuttle was around for quite 50 years, including the conceptual and R&D stages, but I'm just guessing. So, how much was directly related to the shuttle program? Regardless of how much, the space shuttle did have two catastrophic failures, resulting in the deaths of everyone on board. 132 missions are purported to have been made with two of them "failures". Not including malfunctions that resulted in launch delays, that gives NASA an approx. failure rate of 1.51% Definitely better than BMW's LT rate of pre-'05 final drives, but the figures look like NASA's was much more costly in terms of dollars spent and lives lost.

BTW, I'm taking you all's word for it- I haven't watched any of the above-mentioned video.
Re: the reliability issues of the LT, I'm going to defer that to the other dead horses in the annals of this online community.

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post #25 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 11:15 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by james216
Show me a machine that's perfect. And I'll show you a Flying Bigfoot.
Wish I had a perfect machine to show ya, cause I'd like to see that!

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post #26 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 11:54 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I didn't watch the video. can't be bothered with guys who need their 5 minutes of fame in this way.
I bought a 2000 LT 3 years ago. It had previously been in a slide, repaired by a Harley shop,('nuff said) to a piss poor standard, and repainted on the right side by a guy who should be declared legally blind.
I joined this forum, read all the tech stuff till my eyes bled, and did all the required preventative stuff like the clutch housing drill out, drive shaft servicing et al. I am one of the luckier guys who is an automotive mechanic, been riding for over 30 years, and can do all my own maintenance, so that really helps with the pain of this bike.
And it is a pain. From the half day commitment to changing the air filter to burning off a set of tires every year, the K1200LT is a bike you either love or hate.
I loved it. It is without doubt, the finest, most comfortable, best handing (for an 850 pound monster mega tourer),fuel sipping beauty I have ever had the privilege of owning. I recently sold it due to a financial crunch. My wife almost cried because we said goodbye to the bike on which we have had the fondest biking memories in our 34 years of riding together.

Financial crunch over, we picked up last night a 2003 mint condition bike with only 16,000 kilometers on it.
Today I am going riding on a BMW.
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post #27 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 1:55 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

The gentleman in the video brought up the Honda GL 1800, I owned one for 3 years and it was a great bike. But if he would like to compare the two bikes on the simple task of replacing the air filter I would say it is going to be a tie for a FUBAR design between the LT and GL.
Air Filter on the GL you first have to remove the seat, pop out the front speaker grills so you can get at the bolts for the dash, remove dash, pop trim off both left and right of fairing, remove fairing pockets and suspension controls unbolt shelter reach under to remove harness for radio and trip buttons. lift off the shelter and start digging... I think you get the idea. Takes just as much time I would think as the LT.
The GL is a great handling bike and the LT I think has it beat at speed for handling and wind management. The rant also dipped into the luggage space, I use my side bags from the GL in the LT and the bags fit better in the LT. Both bike eat tires, but that is just a affect of the weight and how great both bikes can handle the curves. And yes the oil is a pain to check on the LT.
All I have to say is to each his own. Maintenance is a pain on any touring bike.
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post #28 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 5:50 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerj
the space shuttle did have two catastrophic failures, resulting in the deaths of everyone on board.
132 missions are purported to have been made with two of them "failures".
Not including malfunctions that resulted in launch delays,
that gives NASA an approx. failure rate of 1.51%
Definitely better than BMW's LT rate of pre-'05 final drives,
but the figures look like NASA's was much more costly in terms of dollars spent and lives lost.
I brought up the space shuttle because it is in my opinion probably the most advanced form of transportation that we know,
while at the same time when you look at the shuttle capsule itself
you would think they made it out of an "erector set."

I can't agree with your math and the resulting percentage rate,
if you're only going to count "catastrophic failures"
that would be like only counting the failure rate of LT's that were beyond repair.

Launch failures were sometimes caused by design flaws that had to be repaired or replaced with upgraded parts also.

so comparing apples to apples I'm betting the LT comes out ahead.


Hans
St. Petersburg FL

2002 K1200LTE
"Silver Buffalo" Totaled 5/06
2005 LT
"Esperanza"
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post #29 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 6:02 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I like the guy...find him quite entertaining. I've watched all of his videos and I believe he knows his stuff. Language is a bit tough but like his willingness to express his thoughts. I also lived my LT so each to his own I guess.

Greg
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post #30 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 6:17 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerj
. . . .

BTW, I'm taking you all's word for it- I haven't watched any of the above-mentioned video.
Re: the reliability issues of the LT, I'm going to defer that to the other dead horses in the annals of this online community.
Jeff I'd like you
I did not look at 1 second of the video. The other preceding 26 posts helped me decide on whether or not I wanted to view it. I am not going to speak to what I have not seen but I value what my forum members have to say much more than someone in a video I know nothing about. Still everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. I am still winding down from my trip and how enjoyable it was. It was not in the space shuttle, or in a cage but on a black 2009 K1200LT and would do it again.
ride safe
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post #31 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 7:32 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Having worked on and around European built equipment all my working life, I'll pass on some advice an old Bavarian mechanic gave me many years ago.

If you find what you are doing difficult, you are either doing it wrong or using the wrong tool. Many times the factory service manual will not tell you how to do some things in great detail, its assumed that you, are an experienced mechanic tackling this task and should either know how to do it or be able to easily figure it out.

Turns out old Harald was a pretty wise man.

B D R
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post #32 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 7:46 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunny
Having worked on and around European built equipment all my working life, I'll pass on some advice an old Bavarian mechanic gave me many years ago.

If you find what you are doing difficult, you are either doing it wrong or using the wrong tool. Many times the factory service manual will not tell you how to do some things in great detail, its assumed that you, are an experienced mechanic tackling this task and should either know how to do it or be able to easily figure it out.

Turns out old Harald was a pretty wise man.
That exposes a huge point to be considered. Different cultures have different ways of approaching the same point. Germans are known for seriously overbuilt designs, but IMO they don't allow for WHEN failures occur in their original design. Think clutch slave failure. Americans and Japanese engineers would do a weep hole or otherwise not seal a potential leak in. Germans are satisfied the original design is perfect and don't try to mitigate potential failure issues. This is across the board with their cars, and I'm told with their industrial machinery also. So Harald was wise but how would he have done working on something with a design direction different from what he learned to master? That's the difference here. If you've been working on old chevy's all your life and then you get a Bmw motorcycle, you're going to be doing alot of head scratching and employing improper approachs to repairs. Steve
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post #33 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 8:53 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Hmmm...

140K on my first one. 100K on my second one.

Sure, a few things have broken along the way, Fix it and move on.

Overall, still the best two up touring bike ever built, IMHO.


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post #34 of 55 Old Jul 6th, 2013, 10:57 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
Hmmm...

140K on my first one. 100K on my second one.

Sure, a few things have broken along the way, Fix it and move on.

Overall, still the best two up touring bike ever built, IMHO.
Now that's what I am talking about
Those stats speak volumes. If you were a tech or had a shop I would definitely be a happy camper/customer
ride safe
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post #35 of 55 Old Jul 7th, 2013, 12:15 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
Hmmm...

140K on my first one. 100K on my second one.

Sure, a few things have broken along the way, Fix it and move on.

Overall, still the best two up touring bike ever built, IMHO.
40 freekin oil changes.

------------------------
05 LT - Blue
03 VTX 1300s - fun while it lasted, sucked in the cold.
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post #36 of 55 Old Jul 7th, 2013, 12:17 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Of course there are "design flaws" - nothing is perfect! I personally think the LT is one of the two best touring bikes around. The person on the video appeared to be a disgruntled former employee of BMW or a BMW Dealership - at least I thought so! (A few friends thought so too)
MBevans likes this.

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post #37 of 55 Old Jul 7th, 2013, 1:09 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I have seen many of Chris Harris videos - he is very entertaining. However this video was
nothing but his flair for the obvious. Everything he said I believe many on the forum would
agree with. Chris appears to be a very good mechanic who makes a living working on
other peoples BMW's that either cannot or do not desire to work on their own - for what ever
reason. Chris is out spoken and full of himself - I guess that is why I find his opinion and
information delivery sort of fun to listen to . . . I am not offended - he is refreshing to listen
to from my perspective.

Lets see he talked about the blow down muffler, small batteries, tupperware that takes
time to remove, poor gas mileage, windshield issues, bad rear drives, CB's, top case
issues, paint, gas mileage, electric lifts, outdated radio, lack of arm rests, poor tire wear
and motor HP - did not mention ABS, a motor that keeps on giving, cruise, electronic wind
shield, heated seats and handle bars or overall look and feel. Nothing real tragic here!!

I have maintained 2 LT's for 11 years and while I concur with some of his thoughts I really
enjoy motoring down the road on this 900 pounder with the motor singing at 4000 RPM!!

I always enjoy others opinions - Chris would be quite entertaining to have at a CCR event
- language included!!

Dan Finazzo
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post #38 of 55 Old Jul 7th, 2013, 2:37 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
I brought up the space shuttle because it is in my opinion probably the most advanced form of transportation that we know,
while at the same time when you look at the shuttle capsule itself
you would think they made it out of an "erector set."

I can't agree with your math and the resulting percentage rate,
if you're only going to count "catastrophic failures"
that would be like only counting the failure rate of LT's that were beyond repair.

Launch failures were sometimes caused by design flaws that had to be repaired or replaced with upgraded parts also.

so comparing apples to apples I'm betting the LT comes out ahead.
Hans, the space shuttle probably was one of the most sophisticated pieces of technology/engineering when it was designed and first launched. Just like the Apollo spacecrafts, 15 yrs. later, it was on the verge of being archaic. By the beginning of the 80s, the first ECMs in automobiles had more processing power and memory than the microprocessors in the Apollos.

If you take into account the other malfunctions that would have delayed a launch, then the failure rate would actually increase (percentage were go up). Talking about apples, comparing the product of a government agency with that of a publicly-traded corporation is not comparing apples to apples, especially when the govt. is notorious for Fraud, waste, and abuse.

Jeff
Big D is my neck of the woods

99 K1200LT (don't need loud pipes w/ 8 spk. stereo)
08 HD wide glide
prior:
07 HD XL1200C (sold!
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post #39 of 55 Old Jul 7th, 2013, 11:23 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerj
Talking about apples, comparing the product of a government agency with that of a publicly-traded corporation is not comparing apples to apples, especially when the govt. is notorious for Fraud, waste, and abuse.
WHAAA? You're saying private enterprise can do things better than the gov't??

Not meant to hijack into an "anti big-gov't thread"...

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #40 of 55 Old Jul 7th, 2013, 11:41 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee
WHAAA? You're saying private enterprise can do things better than the gov't??

Not meant to hijack into an "anti big-gov't thread"...
Pish. Amateurs Nothing wastes money like a government contracting out to Private Enterprise.


------------------------
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03 VTX 1300s - fun while it lasted, sucked in the cold.
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post #41 of 55 Old Jul 7th, 2013, 5:52 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Well said Jeff you can't compare apples to the governments golden apples!

When I visited Kennedy space center, I couldn't believe that anybody
would have the balls to get blown out into space in that little capsule they took to the moon,
those astronauts are better men than I am.
I would not have done that for all the money, glory, motorcycles and women in the world.


Hans
St. Petersburg FL

2002 K1200LTE
"Silver Buffalo" Totaled 5/06
2005 LT
"Esperanza"
BushtecGenesisTrailer
"Our preferred long distance carrier"




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post #42 of 55 Old Jul 7th, 2013, 10:21 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Finally took some time and watched the video. I can fully understand the majority of his comments . The fuel mileage could be plausible ( Edit... at 100mph+ sustained speeds)although I find the LT to be very good on fuel, bettering my Concours by approx 15%. I attributed it to superior aerodynamics for the majority of the improvement.

Chris strikes me as a experienced mechanic who expected more in the long tested and awaited redesign. Kind of like how many people dislike newer vehicles in that they are much more complicated to work on and cost more to repair because of working around added time to access components/ same for bikes . Eg : the time to do a valve adjust on an old design Concours is about 2hrs for an experienced guy. The new model C14 replacing a 20yr old run of the previous C10, is at the very least 5 times as long.

I agree that I would not want him to work on my LT as he dilikes it from the get go and would not give it the same care/consideration as the owner, but this goes for a lot of things these days. He is not accepting change and the path the new designs have taken.

I must admit , I am caught in the middle seeing , the good from both sides new and old, but as most 50+ mechanics or do it your selfers it doesn't take long to see the increased cost associated with maintaining newer mechanical things.

MY favorite but unrelated example is the need to remove the CAB of newer Ford HD diesel trucks 250/350 to do any type of major maintenance or repair.

Guess I got carried away a little

1999 K1200LT 33K miles
1999 Concours 107K Km

Doesn't matter what you ride, but ride it, don't spend all your time polishing!
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post #43 of 55 Old Jul 8th, 2013, 12:13 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I am probably in the minority, and I did not WTFV but regardless of some of the practical flaws in the design, sniveling about reliability of components which fail after mileage at which whole other bikes fail, and the various grinding sounds of various axes, I find the ride, stability, power, amenities, and general over the road reliability of my 02 to be the best bike I have ever ridden or quite honestly, expect to ride - except newer models of the same thing...dude, stop whining and ride.
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post #44 of 55 Old Jul 8th, 2013, 6:29 am
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Just making some observations. I don't drink koolaid of any form.

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Doesn't matter what you ride, but ride it, don't spend all your time polishing!
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post #45 of 55 Old Jul 9th, 2013, 9:01 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpac
I just found this video on youtube by chance. I never heard anybody talking so badly about the LT and he spent a whole 25mns just doing that in this video. While he raises some true points the way he describes the LT being such a bad bike is purely ridiculous in my opinion.. He must have had a bad day with the one he was working on at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxbO7QV067s

I saw that guy... I love my K1200LT " Big Red" ya I have had most of the issues common to K1200LT's , I guess they are like the Corvettes I have owned, you need to love them to put up with them.

Ride Long
Cheers
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post #46 of 55 Old Jul 10th, 2013, 12:42 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Also.... Why waste time ranting in April 2013, about a bike designed in the 90's?

The dude's a YouTube troll, begging for attention.

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #47 of 55 Old Jul 10th, 2013, 1:09 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

put this back in the hole it came out of

Loansumrider: Jim
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? when to ASUME, and HOW MUCH should you ASUME, safely ?
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post #48 of 55 Old Jul 10th, 2013, 2:02 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
Well said Jeff you can't compare apples to the governments golden apples!
When I visited Kennedy space center, I couldn't believe that anybody
would have the balls to get blown out into space in that little capsule they took to the moon,
those astronauts are better men than I am.
I would not have done that for all the money, glory, motorcycles and women in the world.
Okay Hans, but would you have done it had all these things been offered to you?
Personally, they would have had me at "all the women in the world".

Jeff
Big D is my neck of the woods

99 K1200LT (don't need loud pipes w/ 8 spk. stereo)
08 HD wide glide
prior:
07 HD XL1200C (sold!
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post #49 of 55 Old Jul 10th, 2013, 2:13 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I've said this before.... Prior to buying my LT, the only research I did was a 30 minute test ride. No reports, no research and no forums. I was looking for a touring bike and really loved the handling of the 02 LT that I took out. It was one model year old at the time with 1,000 miles on it.

If I had read the forums and been aware of the problems that some had/have had, I might not have purchased the best bike I have ever owned prior to my 2012 K1600. That 02 LT gave me 8 wonderful years of riding. Maybe I was just lucky, but the only item that failed me, that I can remember in 50,000 miles was the left turn signal switch. Warranty covered it's replacement.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

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02 K1200 LT (gone but not forgotten)
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post #50 of 55 Old Jul 10th, 2013, 4:18 pm
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Re: Somebody is giving the LT a very bad reputation

I'm sorry to have to disappoint Chris Harris, but my 2005 LT is the best etc bike of the four BMWs I have owned. It even gets the best mileage of the four, and has been absolutely trouble free except for a precautionary FD rebuild by CharlieVT. The Oddessey battery is at least 6 years old & doing well. Yeah I did have had to put new tires on it once, & I don't like the linked brakes.

What's scary is that there are mechanics out there that think like Chris, but fortunately I've never found one. I guess I can't have everything, but Chris has very little to offer........
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