Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 1:16 am Thread Starter
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Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Exciting day, going down to have new tires put on at a local shop here in Bellingham, WA.

On the way, passing a few cars (slow down stupid) I noticed in 3rd around 4K the tach would jump 300-500 rpm but my speed stayed the same. I don't seem to have a problem starting from stopped and general cruising but, our big trip for the year is next month and our first Rally to boot. I asked the shop if they had done a clutch on a LT before and was met with blank stares. We ride 2-up when cruising and I like to ride to work most days.Why oh why is it happening so early? I treat her nice, wax her, change oils, maintain proper tire pressure but, she continues to punish me. Do I need a divorce lawyer, separate vacations?
Is this really the clutch going out? or merely a test to slow me down passing in general? If it is a clutch as the owner with the '03 asked, what are my best options. Do we have any tech sessions in the WA,OR area that might be happening? We are new to the bike just purchased in late 2011 but really enjoying her. Sad.....

Bruce and Kris
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'02 1200LTC -Totaled and missed 4/15
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post #2 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 1:37 am
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

When was the clutch fluid last changed? My 1999 started slipping right after I first bought it 5 years ago. It only had 2400 miles on it. I changed the fluids and haven't had any slipping since. Needless to say, it gets changed every year not. YMMV

Stan
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post #3 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 1:46 am Thread Starter
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Thanks Stan, I will check but, I thought we (the shop) had replace all fluids over the last year and a half... my record keeping and their repair receipts are not the best. I sure hope that could be the problem.

Bruce and Kris
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post #4 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 5:35 am
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Unfotunately Bruce, you (possibly) don't know how the clutch was treated, either intentionally or not, by the previous owner(s). Do all the normal tests, roll on the throttle hard at about 4000 rpm in 5th, thats when the clutch will be transmitting close to maximum torque. If you need to do a clutch replacement my advice is to do the lot including engine output shaft seal and O ring, gearbox input shaft seal, clutch slave cylinder (upgraded design after '05 and all subsequent spares) and drill the weep holes. Plenty of info about all these items here. Sorry if it's bad news, but fix it once and enjoy the bike 2-up, as we do

Dennis
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post #5 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 10:15 am Thread Starter
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Dennis, thanks for the advice and encouragement. Right about now I need it. So much for relaxed maintenance prior to a 1200 mile trip.
I wonder how long I can continue to go with the slipping, could I make the trip and postpone the costly repair until after our trip? or will I become a new roadside distraction somewhere on the side of the Hwy?
-Bruce

Bruce and Kris
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Developing Land Pirates

'02 1200LTC -Totaled and missed 4/15
Y2K 1150 GS -
KH8BA
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post #6 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 10:32 am
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

an 02 with only 25k sounds like it has been sitting quite a bit. Mine had been sitting for a little over 2 years when I got it and the main seal started leaking shortly after I got it, resulting in a clutch change along with all of the seals.
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post #7 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 10:49 am
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Two things to look for in an older low mileage LT that can cause the clutch slip. Both have to do with bad seals that can contaminate the clutch.
1. The clutch slave is leaking, you might be able to tell if the fluid level is getting lower.
2. The rear main is leaking, check on the right side mid bike and look for an oily mess on the engine/tranny.

Now I know ErnieA does tech sessions quite often in the Portland area. But it is riding season so this time a year is not great.

Good Luck - You can always skip the MOA rally and come to CCR it's in Bend this year!

John & Cathy
Northern CA
01 K1200LTC Basalt - Moose


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post #8 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 12:09 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Yes I guess sitting a long time also is bad for us, maybe I need a check up to (mainly for my rising blood pressure)

John and Cathy, -1 Year anniversary coming closer for you two kids, congrats!!!
We would love to come to CCR but, Kris is back at school that week and cannot get away, 2-up or nothing (she likes to hear that) for CCR and with sequestration in place it looks to be the rally this year only (maybe with clutch). Ernie is probably chewing up the goat trails all this summer but, I'm interested to see what his docket looks like anyway. I'm going to tuck my tail between my legs and go out and help the SO with her gardening Boy, twistys to rototillers..... not something I planned this week !

take care,
-Bruce

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post #9 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 12:42 pm
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Here is another test you can do for a sanity check. In 5th gear get up to freeway speed (3.500 to 4,00 RPM) and roll on the throttle once. If you get a slip then give it a minute and try it again. If it does not slip the second time you should be OK for your trip and this is normal behaivior as the clutch disc gets close to its wear limit. If it slips two or more times in succession you most likey have a fluid leak that has contaminated it. But lets cross that bridge after you test it again.

Mine did this slip once thing and I continued the trip I was on and then I was able to ride for several more months before I changed it. The disc was not contaminated and had still not quite reached the wear limit but it was close. (05 with about 40K on it I had pulled a trailer 6,000 miles and was too hard on the clutch) I now have 78K and have pulled a trailer 8,000 more miles with no issue as I have a new technique.

John
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2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #10 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 3:39 pm
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Quote:
I noticed in 3rd around 4K the tach would jump 300-500 rpm but my speed stayed the same
Hi, Did you just shift when it sliped? If you had just shifted,& the clutch was not fully engaged before you start cranking on it, it can / will slip. The Clutch engages when the lever is just about all the way out. if you are shifting & cranking before that it is fully engaged by just the smallest margin you can have some slippage.

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post #11 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 7:26 pm
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Slippage is usually pretty obvious to the rider. Is your needle "jumping" a few hundred RPM or is it gradual where you can hear and feel the motor speed up without the bike changing speed? If your needle just jumps it's an electrical problem. And as Patric points out, make sure your fingers are off the clutch lever when you roll the throttle hard.


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post #12 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 7:28 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Thanks for all the ideas and knowledge guys.

John I did just get back from a short ride to the Fwy and back it's 20min each way to the fwy, as we live "out in the sticks" as our kids use to say. Good news is, nice day,
bad news is the clutch slips each time I accelerate, even on the on ramp. At 4k in 5th tach will jump 750-1000 rpm and speed slooooowly gains, it's fried.....
I did some calls around and seems a 8-10 hr shop time and $200 for friction plate plus other parts that may be required once they get inside. I like the idea of replacing all the seals, dolphins, and stingrays so, we do not have to visit this aquarium again. So, with all the super knowledge on this Fantastic Forum (yes, many of you are superheros to us non-wrenchers)
What else should I replace at the same time as the clutch?

-Bruce

Bruce and Kris
Seasoned Sailors
Developing Land Pirates

'02 1200LTC -Totaled and missed 4/15
Y2K 1150 GS -
KH8BA
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post #13 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 8:24 pm
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Need to determine what contaminated the clutch. Could have been brake fluid from a leaking slave cylinder and in that case you will want the tranny seal next to the slave changed as well. If it was the front seal of the tranny , well that is obvious.

If not the slave or the tranny then engine oil was leaking. Most often the o-ring on the engine output shaft is cracked and aged. OEM is nitrile better to get a Viton o-ring even if the dealer is doing the job as it will last longer. 19x4 mm (theoringstore.com)

Last case is the darn thing just wore out. In that case replace any seals that are leaking (I don't believe in pre-emptive seal replacement), other wise just fix the clutch. A new slave would also be a good investment.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #14 of 22 Old Jun 13th, 2013, 9:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

John, in one word - NICE, thank you. I will look into those and do the best I can. now I can focus on what oil to use I'm tired and going to bed, midnights you know...

cheers everyone!

Bruce and Kris
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Y2K 1150 GS -
KH8BA
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post #15 of 22 Old Jun 14th, 2013, 9:46 am
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Hi, You might have had the rubber in your drive shaft go bad. The clutch might be OK, but the drive shaft is spinning inside it's self. The more I think about it, the more it sounds like drive shaft.

Patric Blackman
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post #16 of 22 Old Jun 14th, 2013, 9:56 am
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patric
Hi, You might have had the rubber in your drive shaft go bad. The clutch might be OK, but the drive shaft is spinning inside it's self. The more I think about it, the more it sounds like drive shaft.

The smell of that should be distinctive and different from a clutch smell, but you could be on to something.

Bruce,

Try pulling the boot on the drive back away from the swing arm and give it a sniff (make sure no one is watching ). If you smell burnt rubber it is the drive shaft.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #17 of 22 Old Jun 14th, 2013, 4:37 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Well, the plot thickens, yet another idea to check. I shall try the sniff test to see. I rode her to work last night and, she still slips between 3500 and 4 if good acceleration is applied but, that is in 3rd and 4th only as I run out of runway before 5th gear.
Thanks Bruce

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Developing Land Pirates

'02 1200LTC -Totaled and missed 4/15
Y2K 1150 GS -
KH8BA
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post #18 of 22 Old Jun 14th, 2013, 5:21 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

I Did pull back the boot and things seem clear and clean except for a small bit of oil at the bottom folds of the lower boot. No burnt rubber smell just slight clean oil smell and no tuna smell Really do appreciate the ideas,It does however look as if another mortgage is in order for the BMW repair people. The local "new" repair place for BMW just opened but, I don't think they have much experience yet as they are still attending BMW classes next week Has anyone had good or bad tales of Vallantine motor works in the Seattle area? I do not see the benefit of paying someone to train on the bike, many of the small nuances that you all have pointed out, only come with years of experience and R & D
-Bruce

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Developing Land Pirates

'02 1200LTC -Totaled and missed 4/15
Y2K 1150 GS -
KH8BA
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post #19 of 22 Old Jun 15th, 2013, 8:54 pm
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

If it is the drive shaft, email me at aol as I have a couple in my garage.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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post #20 of 22 Old Jun 29th, 2013, 10:06 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Well, back again on two wheels, not much fun driving the truck to work each day...
In talking to the BMW (ouch) mechanic he found that the clutch slave had failed and seal leaking dot 4 oil into the clutch housing causing the whole damn thing needing to be replaced. So he replaced the input gearbox seal, output, input gearbox housing ,rear main seal,friction plate, intermediate plate, pressure plate, clutch housing and a whole bunch of other pieces I won't go into. The reason (drum roll please) the slave failed was not changing the dot 4 brake fluid often enough (according to him). Regular maintenance is key to a long life, damn I hate it when I get caught not performing general upkeep. I just had the brakes flushed a bit over a year ago but,,,,, I don't know what the other owners records/maintenance was like.Just goes to show you (me more so) if you're purchasing a used bike or anything these days try and get the records and maintenance performed and review them before money exchanges hands. I just thought it was so shiny and pretty that I bought it, but, then again it could just be age(I hate that even more).

Bruce and Kris
Seasoned Sailors
Developing Land Pirates

'02 1200LTC -Totaled and missed 4/15
Y2K 1150 GS -
KH8BA
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post #21 of 22 Old Jun 29th, 2013, 11:06 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

I forgot to thank everyone that gave me feed back on my clutch problems. I learned a lot about the different signs and ways to do some searches and tests, thank you all.

Bruce and Kris
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Developing Land Pirates

'02 1200LTC -Totaled and missed 4/15
Y2K 1150 GS -
KH8BA
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post #22 of 22 Old Jul 1st, 2013, 10:00 pm
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Re: Mildly slipping clutch on '02 w/25K

Did you end up using Valentines in Seattle? if not, who did the work?

RICH CANNON
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