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post #1 of 33 Old Jun 6th, 2013, 2:46 pm Thread Starter
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Question ABS Module has failed.

Dealer tells me that my Integrated ABS Module is/has failed. The pump motor itself has failed. It is not fluids that need flushing or filling. They want $3100 to repair it. $2750 for a new module and the rest for labor. The bike is a 2002 LTC with only 43,000 miles on it and in good condition all way around. Since the bike's value is probably around $3500 it does not make sense to spend this much money, but I can't sell it without the ABS. According to other threads, there are a couple of places that rebuild them. My Clymers manual says nothing about removal and installation or even where it is on the bike. Has anyone done this themselves before? Success with using a rebuilt module?

Randy
2002 K1200LTC
1972 R 75/5
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post #2 of 33 Old Jun 6th, 2013, 3:20 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

If you search for Module Masters, you should find info on them. IIRC, they perform some rebuild services, but not sure what the scope of their offerings is.

Antony (Tripod)
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post #3 of 33 Old Jun 6th, 2013, 4:01 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

This might be a solution. From a neighbor who posted on our club forum regarding his K1200GT Lot's of tongue in cheek comments about the fix, but it works!

"I had read on I-BMW.com that my “brake failure” light has become commonplace for the slant engine bikes (and someone in my local club says its also hitting the R1200R bikes).
It seems (as I read it) the problem is in the electric motor on the Integrated ABS 2 pump assembly. Carbon dust from the motor brushes gets trapped in the brush holders and prevents the brushes from advancing. When that happens, the brushes don’t make contact and you have no power to the motor and the computer says “brake failure” because the pump can’t run. SO, No ABS.

I verified via a friend's GS911 that I did have “no power to ABS pump motor”.
As I pondered the problem I called Module Masters to verify they COULD fix the problem and it is WELL known to them (they get about one unit each day for this problem). YEP, $250 and one week turnaround, you get YOUR unit repaired with a 5 year warranty.

Then that cheap guy that lives within me said, “If its dust and it just happened to get in there, then maybe I can get it out of where it shouldn’t be.” This morning I removed the left side body panel and applied a vibrator I have (NO don’t ask) to the motor section on the assembly. And I also tapped on the motor with a SMALL hammer [didn’t even chip any paint]. Then I Geared up, backed the bike out of the garage and started it.
Brake Failure light is FLASHING (GOOD sign).
Then I rode off and that light went OFF. Thank you I-BMW!

Now I have my ABS back again. If it fails again really soon, I’ll post again.
Otherwise I’m just gonna ride it!"

That post was three weeks ago.

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post #4 of 33 Old Jun 6th, 2013, 7:18 pm Thread Starter
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Red face Re: ABS Module has failed.

Interesting solution to the ABS motor problem. Will have to try it. I have talked to Module Masters and without specifics they said they could repair the module. Now I have to figure out where it's at and if necessary get it out. Will try PM's solution first.

Thanks for the help.

Randy
2002 K1200LTC
1972 R 75/5
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post #5 of 33 Old Jun 6th, 2013, 7:24 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Are there other symptoms? Here is part of my story. I had lost all speed related functions on my 2004 LT. Cruise, speedo, speed sensitive volume on radio, lights flashing on the dash. Dealer in North Carolina said ABS system. A guru from here hinted at a broken wire on the speed sensor from the rear final drive. I replaced that wire and all is like new again. I was looking at the same $3000 repair. Hope it turns out well for you as well.

Scott and Theresa
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post #6 of 33 Old Jun 6th, 2013, 7:31 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Paul,

You have the ABS II pump and only one motor. His is the integrated pump with two motors and as far as I have seen even MM has not repaired one of those yet.

But rwischmann, I would still call them and see what they say. Just be prepared.

John
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post #7 of 33 Old Jun 7th, 2013, 1:04 pm Thread Starter
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Module Masters says they have not repaired the Integral ABS yet. They have to get parts from Germany and it will be September before they could work on it. However Automotive Scientific out of Rogersville, TN says that they repair the ABS Module, but did not get any specifics between the type II or Integral. I need to follow up with more detail. Also got a full BMW Manual from Tradebit so now know where and how to remove the ABS unit.

Randy
2002 K1200LTC
1972 R 75/5
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post #8 of 33 Old Jun 7th, 2013, 5:05 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwischmann
Module Masters says they have not repaired the Integral ABS yet. They have to get parts from Germany and it will be September before they could work on it. However Automotive Scientific out of Rogersville, TN says that they repair the ABS Module, but did not get any specifics between the type II or Integral. I need to follow up with more detail. Also got a full BMW Manual from Tradebit so now know where and how to remove the ABS unit.
This is the first time I have heard of these folks, maybe someone else has. I would ask them if they have ever fixed one before and ask for a reference. An internet search shows no Web page but that does not mean they aren't good at what they do , just a small shop.
Proceed with caution.

John Baker

2005 BMW K1200LT
1979 Suzuki GS1000E
1978 Honda CB350
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post #9 of 33 Old Jun 7th, 2013, 6:14 pm Thread Starter
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Smile Re: ABS Module has failed.

Talked to a Tim at Autoecu.com which is the web name. The site looks legit and Tim says he has 2 years experience with rebuilting them. He claims to have done 2 today. He also said that he as motors in stock for the units. Price is $945.00 and turn around is 3-5 days.

Randy
2002 K1200LTC
1972 R 75/5
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post #10 of 33 Old Jul 31st, 2013, 6:02 pm
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Angry Re: ABS Module has failed.

Have a 2007 K1200LT with 17,000 miles on it. I bought it from a local dealer 3 months ago and put 315 miles on it. Today I brought it in for the ABS failure light and he tells me that the module is fried and it will be it $2,340. for the part and 6 hours of labor at $85. to fix it.
I told him to put it back together and I'll come and get it. I think I'll sell it( if I can) and go back to a Goldwing.
I am awfully disappointed
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post #11 of 33 Old Jul 31st, 2013, 6:51 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Okay, I know ABSectomy has been discussed and the consensus is that it makes the bike worth ~$0, but on the other hand how much is a bike worth that is not able to be ridden (i.e. integrated system is not functional and only residual braking is available). Is it really worth 50% of the value of the bike to have functioning ABS? I gotta think a couple custom lines from Speigler and 'conversion' to standard (bypass ABS system and go straight to the calipers), non-ABS brakes would make the bike useable, you just lose that extra margin of safety that many bikes do not have anyway. Of course one of the experts might know that this would not work but just a thought rattling in my head.

All right, I have my flack jacket, let the grenades fly

-Steve

2009 BMW R1200RT
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post #12 of 33 Old Jul 31st, 2013, 7:28 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captw3
Have a 2007 K1200LT with 17,000 miles on it. I bought it from a local dealer 3 months ago and put 315 miles on it. Today I brought it in for the ABS failure light and he tells me that the module is fried and it will be it $2,340. for the part and 6 hours of labor at $85. to fix it.
I told him to put it back together and I'll come and get it. I think I'll sell it( if I can) and go back to a Goldwing.
I am awfully disappointed
Sorry to hear that. Surprised dealer did not off any sort of warranty since you just bought it and barely did a tank and a half on it.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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post #13 of 33 Old Jul 31st, 2013, 7:44 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperstatetour
Okay, I know ABSectomy has been discussed and the consensus is that it makes the bike worth ~$0, but on the other hand how much is a bike worth that is not able to be ridden (i.e. integrated system is not functional and only residual braking is available). Is it really worth 50% of the value of the bike to have functioning ABS? I gotta think a couple custom lines from Speigler and 'conversion' to standard (bypass ABS system and go straight to the calipers), non-ABS brakes would make the bike useable, you just lose that extra margin of safety that many bikes do not have anyway. Of course one of the experts might know that this would not work but just a thought rattling in my head.

All right, I have my flack jacket, let the grenades fly
No grenades from me. On a 2000 you have to do nothing at all to bypass the ABS as it is just a variable chamber type unit and when it is not working you will never know it until you lock up a wheel.

John
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post #14 of 33 Old Jul 31st, 2013, 9:35 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Too bad BMW didn't offer the LT without ABS. Then it would just be a couple hundred bucks difference in the price when one fails. Anyway the difference between a used ABS Goldwing and a standard one isn't very much.


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post #15 of 33 Old Jul 31st, 2013, 9:40 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captw3
Have a 2007 K1200LT with 17,000 miles on it. I bought it from a local dealer 3 months ago and put 315 miles on it. Today I brought it in for the ABS failure light and he tells me that the module is fried and it will be it $2,340. for the part and 6 hours of labor at $85. to fix it.
I told him to put it back together and I'll come and get it. I think I'll sell it( if I can) and go back to a Goldwing.
I am awfully disappointed
Just found an ABS that will work on your year on ebay for about $875. here

John Baker

2005 BMW K1200LT
1979 Suzuki GS1000E
1978 Honda CB350
1975 Suzuki GT380
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post #16 of 33 Old Jul 31st, 2013, 11:08 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

I sent Randy, the OP, a PM warning him about the repair shop he referenced. I hope he hasn't sent his ABS unit to them. My experience with them was not good.

Lee
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post #17 of 33 Old Aug 1st, 2013, 9:33 am
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Thanks for the link John. I am looking at replacement VS rebuild. Pros and Cons?

Rick
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post #18 of 33 Old Aug 1st, 2013, 11:16 am
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
No grenades from me. On a 2000 you have to do nothing at all to bypass the ABS as it is just a variable chamber type unit and when it is not working you will never know it until you lock up a wheel.
You're telling me, my '00 R1200C worked fine on startup, did the little clicky noise thing every day and the lights went off when I pulled away without fail. One day on my way home some fool darts in front of me on the freeway and slams on his brakes so I grabbed a handful and footstomp and the next thing I knew both tires were locked and the ABS started alternate blinking. Did the manual reset on the ABS started up okay when I rode away but ABS would not quite engage and again alternate blinking, did this a few times each time getting a little closer to ABS engaging and it started working again, now I exercise them daily and the ABS works great with no hesitation whatsoever.

Back to topic, wouldn't it be possible on an integrated system just to go straight from the master cylinder on the hand brake to the front calipers with a custom hose(s), and the same from the foot brake to the rear?

-Steve

2009 BMW R1200RT
2000 BMW K1200LT (was supposed to be replaced by above, but can't keep above running long enough to replace
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post #19 of 33 Old Aug 1st, 2013, 11:40 am
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Can you find a used unit??? I have a 2000 LT. I know the ABS is different than on the 02's. My ABS went out in 06, and I was able to find a used unit on EBAY. My friend Bill (billd on here) and I changed out the ABS unit ourselves. It was a real pain to get it out but putting it back in was fairly easy. I know the intregrated brakes are more complex, but changing it out wasn't too hard after we got the abs unit out.
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post #20 of 33 Old Aug 1st, 2013, 12:23 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

[QUOTE=copperstatetour

Back to topic, wouldn't it be possible on an integrated system just to go straight from the master cylinder on the hand brake to the front calipers with a custom hose(s), and the same from the foot brake to the rear?[/QUOTE]

exactly - the only issue is the diameter of the master cylinder diameter and the diameter of the pistons in the calipers - if the power brake models are the same size as the non power brake one then same braking - because of the power brakes they could be smaller which would change braking effect

Gary
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post #21 of 33 Old Aug 1st, 2013, 5:52 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captw3
Thanks for the link John. I am looking at replacement VS rebuild. Pros and Cons?

Rick
The one on Ebay came out of an 09 not a rebuild. So if you buy it make sure you get some sort of warranty that it works. I don't remember if there is someone that has this type ABS rebuilt by module masters, they have done the older ones. You don't see these that "cheap" very often, usually two to three hundred dollars more.

Not sure that answers your question, but I think I would buy the ebay one.

John Baker

2005 BMW K1200LT
1979 Suzuki GS1000E
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post #22 of 33 Old Aug 1st, 2013, 8:23 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperstatetour
You're telling me, my '00 R1200C worked fine on startup, did the little clicky noise thing every day and the lights went off when I pulled away without fail. One day on my way home some fool darts in front of me on the freeway and slams on his brakes so I grabbed a handful and footstomp and the next thing I knew both tires were locked and the ABS started alternate blinking. Did the manual reset on the ABS started up okay when I rode away but ABS would not quite engage and again alternate blinking, did this a few times each time getting a little closer to ABS engaging and it started working again, now I exercise them daily and the ABS works great with no hesitation whatsoever.

Back to topic, wouldn't it be possible on an integrated system just to go straight from the master cylinder on the hand brake to the front calipers with a custom hose(s), and the same from the foot brake to the rear?

First off this is a K1200LT section and know not much of the R1200C on its braking system but if it is the same as the K1200 99-2001 (early) Then yes. You may have had a stuck piston fault that cleared itself up and that was why it was working again.

Second question. Yes you can pull the IABS unit out and re-plumb it for direct pressure from the master cylinders. You lose ABS and linking but you can still stop fine. But you do have to remove the unit since there in not a good path for fluid between circuits (thus residual braking).

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #23 of 33 Old Aug 1st, 2013, 11:42 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
First off this is a K1200LT section and know not much of the R1200C on its braking system but if it is the same as the K1200 99-2001 (early) Then yes. You may have had a stuck piston fault that cleared itself up and that was why it was working again...
I should have clarified, my Y2K R1200C has the same failure-prone ABS as the 99-00 LT.

-Steve

2009 BMW R1200RT
2000 BMW K1200LT (was supposed to be replaced by above, but can't keep above running long enough to replace
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post #24 of 33 Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 3:19 am
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

You are SCREWED... I have been down this road. Sent the pump out to be fixed. The electronic will continue to fault out. There is NO REPAIR. I hate to say it but there is no way out. I had the same bike.

Tvguy
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post #25 of 33 Old Aug 2nd, 2013, 10:08 am
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

From my research so far no one rebuilds the new units yet. (reliably ) I talked to Module Master yesterday and they have to get a full parts list and devise a new plan for rebuilding these units. Maybe available by the end of the year. bottle neck is there are no third party venders for pumps.
I would think that sole source for these units is a large reason they are so expensive.

I guess used it is.

Rick
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post #26 of 33 Old Aug 3rd, 2013, 7:47 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Just a quick question, are there wiring diagrams around for the ABS units. I have a 2001 LT with a faulty unit (twin pump) and my mechanis found that there was a few 'diodes' burnet out somewhere in the curcuit.
So he is asking for a wiring diagram to see it we can fix the proble.
Got nothing to loose.
The attached image while not clear shows burnt out parts in the top right corner.

Cheers all
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post #27 of 33 Old Aug 4th, 2013, 1:38 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Those are most likely MOSFETs to control the pump motors. I used to have a spare board but I sent it to a guy in the Netherlands or I would try and read the data on the MOSFETs for you. No wiring diagram available as far as I know. Maybe some one else has a spare unit lying around.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #28 of 33 Old Aug 4th, 2013, 2:00 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sh059
Just a quick question, are there wiring diagrams around for the ABS units. I have a 2001 LT with a faulty unit (twin pump) and my mechanis found that there was a few 'diodes' burnet out somewhere in the curcuit.
So he is asking for a wiring diagram to see it we can fix the proble.
Got nothing to loose.
The attached image while not clear shows burnt out parts in the top right corner.

Cheers all
Hope your guy does not think that is really diodes, as Jzeiler mentioned that one looks like a particular type of transistor. It is a power device so if you replace it you "might" get lucky. I have done that in the past on other devices and got smoke, due to the real issue. At any rate is would a much cheaper part than the ABS, so I would go for it.

John Baker

2005 BMW K1200LT
1979 Suzuki GS1000E
1978 Honda CB350
1975 Suzuki GT380
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post #29 of 33 Old Aug 4th, 2013, 2:26 pm
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

That is not an uncommon problem when a motor freezes up it will fry the driver electronics. That burned part is what happened when the motor siezed and continued to draw max amps for an extended period of time.

It is not just that part, something made that part fail and I'm betting the motor froze and started frying those parts.

What I wonder is the cause. Is it because sitting in traffic for 2 hours with the brakes engaged means it will sit there and run creating a ton if heat and smoke the motors? Maybe only 15 minutes over and over will do this after a few years...

Currently riding a 2003 K1200LTC
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post #30 of 33 Old Aug 4th, 2013, 5:37 pm
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Location: Hudsonville, Mi., USA
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captw3
From my research so far no one rebuilds the new units yet. (reliably ) I talked to Module Master yesterday and they have to get a full parts list and devise a new plan for rebuilding these units. Maybe available by the end of the year. bottle neck is there are no third party venders for pumps.
I would think that sole source for these units is a large reason they are so expensive.

I guess used it is.

Rick
You maybe should try Chris Harris at Affordable Beemer Service he can maybe take the ABS Unit out and go back to just standard brakes;; He is in NH. probably not that far from you.
I got admit that's WHAT I most likely would do if mine goes.
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Gary
2003 K1200LT
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post #31 of 33 Old Aug 12th, 2013, 10:33 am
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Re: ABS Module has failed.

Talked with Chris and he can do a work around to take the module out and go back to regular braking. he has a good video on u tube. He is salty and a hoot to communicate with. He doesn't hate BMW's, just some of the decisions they have made since 2004. He has a good website that is very informative about some of the post 2004 changes made. I like him because he has found solutions to the issues rather than just bitching about them.
He runs a honest shop that is so busy he is booked out 6-7 weeks.

On a different note, my dealer contacted me and offered to repair the bike at their cost of the part and half the labor. I am thinking they monitor the boards for bad press. I know need to decide on a permanent fix and keep the bike or a temporary fix that would allow me to sell the bike stock.

Thanks to all for the suggestions and support, will let you know how it turns out.
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post #32 of 33 Old Sep 3rd, 2013, 2:13 pm
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Thumbs up Re: ABS Module has failed.

Took the dealer up on his offer. had to what for the part and shop availability. Just got it back Friday. I am convinced that the bike had the problem when I bought it because of the difference in the way it performs.
I may learn to wench on it myself and keep it.
Thanks for all the help and support. This board is great!
Rick
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post #33 of 33 Old Sep 3rd, 2013, 3:46 pm
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ABS Module has failed.

My 2003 also failed at about 23k, I suspect that it failed because it sat for years under a tarp and brake fluid got crusty or goopy or something not optimal. I found a used replacement from another wrecked bike. I will change the fluid MORE than needed as a precaution. The replacement is workin well right now, knock on wood.
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