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post #1 of 14 Old Mar 12th, 2013, 9:23 pm Thread Starter
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Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

Just prior to the end of the riding season the Final Drive on my 2000 LT failed. (Shocker, I know) I have already logged the failure on the registry, although I don't think it will do much good. I have viewed a few of the videos showing step-by-step on repair, and I am going to take a shot. I would like to throw a couple of questions out there.

1. Where can I order the replacement parts? (and can anyone provide a comprehensive list of what may be needed?)

2. I am pretty confident that the shims won't be correct, so do I pre-order some additional shims? And of so, what size(s) are recommended?

Thanks in advance.

Dan

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post #2 of 14 Old Mar 12th, 2013, 11:32 pm
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

Based on my limited experience (only rebuilt my own), you're not going to know what you'll need (well, except for the failed bearing) until you get in there. Yes, you're likely over-shimmed, but you won't know by how much, or even what you'll need until you do your measurements.
I got my parts locally, but wasn't happy.
Wait for Curtis to jump in. He'll have the best advise.
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post #3 of 14 Old Mar 13th, 2013, 6:43 am
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

It is nice that you want to do this your self, but do you REALLY want to tackle this job knowing that if you do not do one thing correct, the drive will not last a thousand miles. Below is a link from about two weeks ago. I would select one of them as they have rebuilt many final drives and will do the job right the first time.
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...ht=final+drive

Mike Trevelino
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post #4 of 14 Old Mar 13th, 2013, 6:47 am
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

[QUOTE=light86.... Final Drive on my 2000 LT failed....

1. Where can I order the replacement parts? (and can anyone provide a comprehensive list of what may be needed?)

2. I am pretty confident that the shims won't be correct, so do I pre-order some additional shims? And of so, what size(s) are recommended? [/QUOTE]

Dan,
For the data bank, how many miles on the 2000 before the FD went out? Are you original owner or is there unkown history from a prior owner?
Please give a description of what happened: you found metal in the lube, your noticed a rough ride, the lube leaked out....?

Parts: Assuming you had a "classic" crown wheel bearing failure (a fair assumption since that is the most common failure on a 2000) you'll need a crown wheel bearing, hub seal, and shim(s). FD cover O-ring can often be reused but should be closely inspected for nicks, etc.

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...7&rnd=08102012

33 12 7 663 482 SHAFT SEAL - 85X110X10 0.13 1 $31.90
33 12 1 242 210 GROOVED BALL BEARING - 85X120X18 1.15 1 $89.47
33 11 1 241 257 O-RING - 171,1X2,62 1 $7.04

You can't order shims until you have done the measurements.

I get parts from MaxBMW, they ship quickly, communicate well regarding order status, and include M&Ms with each parts order. (If you don't like M&Ms, I suggest you use another supplier. ) I would use a BMW dealer to source the bearing, and one of the larger dealers that moves inventory. You want the German made 19 ball bearing; there might still be "new part number" French made 17 ball bearing in some small shop's inventory. These bearings were in the BMW supply system for a short period of time and cost significantly more that the German made bearing and have no demonstrated advantage.

If you are going to rebuild your own FD, I recommend you become familiar with the failures referred to as the "creeping" input needle bearing race, and the spinning tapered roller bearing race, so you know what to look for when you have the drive open.

My video is somewhat dated and some statements made in it I no longer believe, but the basic rebuild method shown is still valid. There is a large range of shim thickness, so you can't order shims before you have done measurements. You are correct in that you will need different shims; in all the drives I have seen, I've never seen a failed crown wheel bearing that wasn't over-shimmed. It would be a mistake to rebuild using your original shim.

HTH

Last edited by CharlieVT; Mar 13th, 2013 at 8:11 am.
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post #5 of 14 Old Mar 13th, 2013, 9:27 am
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

Curtis,
Statistically, what has been your experience on when FD failures occur on 2000 LT's?

Mine now has 53K, with no wobble on the rear and clear gear oil. I do have a rebuilt standby which I received from you some time ago but just wonder'n.

Paul


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post #6 of 14 Old Mar 13th, 2013, 11:12 am
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMitchell
....Statistically, what has been your experience on when FD failures occur on 2000 LT's?

Mine now has 53K, with no wobble on the rear and clear gear oil. I do have a rebuilt standby which I received from you some time ago but just wonder'n.....
Paul,
Not speaking statistically
I've had some formal training in statistics, and came to understand what most people think of statistical data doesn't measure up.
"Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics."
"Statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics."
Besides, uhmmm.... 76.83% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

But in the SWAG department, the "plume" or bell curve peak for "classic" crownwheel bearing final drive failures due to excess preload seems to be between 20K and 40K miles. I have seen 'em as early as 18K miles but that was on a BMW shop rebuild. I've seem them as late as 60+K miles, but few.
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post #7 of 14 Old Mar 13th, 2013, 12:12 pm
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

Paul,
The 2000 that I had previously had 52k on it when partially demolished in 2010. Dave Selvig put it back together and now has more than 70k on it. I don't believe the drive ever failed, but Dave may have taken it apart to check the internals or rebuild it early. I'm sure Dave will be along later with more details.

Lee
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post #8 of 14 Old Mar 13th, 2013, 4:00 pm
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

Thanks Curtis & Lee.
Yeah, I do know about stats since I had a few courses decades ago and blow up many competitive reports (in my field) due to lousy sampling techniques and faulty analysis.

Anecdotal reports will do just fine in this case.

Thanks again gents!

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post #9 of 14 Old Mar 13th, 2013, 5:35 pm
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee510
Paul,
The 2000 that I had previously had 52k on it when partially demolished in 2010. Dave Selvig put it back together and now has more than 70k on it. I don't believe the drive ever failed, but Dave may have taken it apart to check the internals or rebuild it early. I'm sure Dave will be along later with more details.
It had the proper preload when I checked it. It's running fine at 76,000 miles.

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2004 Black LT
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post #10 of 14 Old Mar 13th, 2013, 7:12 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT
Dan,
For the data bank, how many miles on the 2000 before the FD went out? Are you original owner or is there unkown history from a prior owner?
Please give a description of what happened: you found metal in the lube, your noticed a rough ride, the lube leaked out....?

Parts: Assuming you had a "classic" crown wheel bearing failure (a fair assumption since that is the most common failure on a 2000) you'll need a crown wheel bearing, hub seal, and shim(s). FD cover O-ring can often be reused but should be closely inspected for nicks, etc.

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...7&rnd=08102012

33 12 7 663 482 SHAFT SEAL - 85X110X10 0.13 1 $31.90
33 12 1 242 210 GROOVED BALL BEARING - 85X120X18 1.15 1 $89.47
33 11 1 241 257 O-RING - 171,1X2,62 1 $7.04

You can't order shims until you have done the measurements.

I get parts from MaxBMW, they ship quickly, communicate well regarding order status, and include M&Ms with each parts order. (If you don't like M&Ms, I suggest you use another supplier. ) I would use a BMW dealer to source the bearing, and one of the larger dealers that moves inventory. You want the German made 19 ball bearing; there might still be "new part number" French made 17 ball bearing in some small shop's inventory. These bearings were in the BMW supply system for a short period of time and cost significantly more that the German made bearing and have no demonstrated advantage.

If you are going to rebuild your own FD, I recommend you become familiar with the failures referred to as the "creeping" input needle bearing race, and the spinning tapered roller bearing race, so you know what to look for when you have the drive open.

My video is somewhat dated and some statements made in it I no longer believe, but the basic rebuild method shown is still valid. There is a large range of shim thickness, so you can't order shims before you have done measurements. You are correct in that you will need different shims; in all the drives I have seen, I've never seen a failed crown wheel bearing that wasn't over-shimmed. It would be a mistake to rebuild using your original shim.

HTH
I am not the original owner, and had in fact purchased the bike just last year. I I had done a lot of research on the bike, including this forum, so while I was disappointed in the failure, I wasn't surprised. The drive failed at 37,550 miles.

The day it failed I thought I felt something as I headed out, but wasn't sure what it was. About 15 miles later the rear end started to wobble so I quickly pulled onto the shoulder of the freeway. Oil was pouring out of the drive and was all over the rim. I was able to get it off the freeway and eventually trailer it home.

As I said, it was disappointing because I still had a few months of riding left!!

I'm looking forward to getting back out there and logging quite a few miles this summer. Living in Minnesota gives us a shorter riding season, but I'm sure I can find the time.

As a note, one of the things that helped "sway" me was the information and quick response I always got from this forum. People such as yourself are a HUGE help when it comes to owning the LT. To be honest, it makes owning the bike even more enjoyable.

With all of the "veteran" riders offering their assistance I feel like there is such a great support system, as long as you don't ask which oil to use.

Thanks again for the great information.

You also mentioned a video, did I miss the link? (It may be one I have already watched but can you provide it again?)

Thanks again! - Dan

Dan Hoover
Andover, MN

'72 Harley 100 (No Idea)
'98 Suzuki Intruder 1400 (Sold)

2000 BMW K1200LT (just getting acquainted)

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post #11 of 14 Old Mar 14th, 2013, 6:32 am
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by light86
I am not the original owner, ....The drive failed at 37,550 miles.

The day it failed I thought I felt something as I headed out, but wasn't sure what it was. About 15 miles later the rear end started to wobble so I quickly pulled onto the shoulder of the freeway. Oil was pouring out of the drive and was all over the rim. I was able to get it off the freeway and eventually trailer it home....
Thanks for the information regarding symtoms of your failure. Yours is a common senario.

The video is here:
http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv

I made this video years ago when I had first started my foray into the KLT final drive.
I don't have video editing capability, so the thing is edited by starting and stopping the copy process, which makes watching kind of tedious. Sorry.

Since making the video, I compared the method in the video (DMAN's dial indicator method) to the method in the BMW service manual (depth micrometer method) and found the two methods give essentially the same results.

Both the dial indicator method shown in the video and the BMW Service Manual method can have confounding variables, so there is a learning curve. If you decide to take on the rebuild yourself, just be prepared to repeat the measurement process several times until you get a good feel for what is going on.

While the method in the video is still a very valid rebuild method, some things in the video are no longer:
Contrary to the statement in the video regarding the causes of failure, I have concluded that the classic crownwheel bearing failure is a result of excess preload secondary to excess shim thickness.
You don't have to heat the final drive cover to remove it from the housing. However, heating the cover for the measurements, and installing and removing the bearing is important.

If you already have the tools and have some experience working on similar things, the rebuild should be pretty straight forward for you. If the rebuild looks a little daunting to you, send a private msg to saddleman or jzeiler.

HTH
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post #12 of 14 Old Mar 14th, 2013, 8:11 am
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

I have a 2001 (built 10-00) but it has the Brembo brakes so I consider it a 2000 at least as far as ordering parts. I had the FD fail at 67,000. Sent it in to Curtis for a rebuild and expect it to last the life of the bike now.

Good luck on your endevor!

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post #13 of 14 Old Mar 14th, 2013, 8:39 am
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

Hi Dan.
If you let me peek over your shoulder to see what's involved,I've got a Handi lift you can borrow if you need one.I'm in Shoreview.

Jeff Bokusky

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post #14 of 14 Old Mar 15th, 2013, 9:27 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Final Drive Parts for Rebuild

Jeff, If I decide to rebuild it, I'll let you know. Nice to know there's another LT close by.

Dan Hoover
Andover, MN

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'98 Suzuki Intruder 1400 (Sold)

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