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post #1 of 26 Old Dec 14th, 2012, 9:31 pm Thread Starter
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Question about side stand cut off

I've been a riding a new to me 2003 LT for a few months now and and I'm interested in the cut off on the side stand. Question: When you guys park your LT, do you let the engine cut off when you drop the side stand? Or do you hit your run/kill switch? Or do you put her in neutral and switch off the ignition? Inquiring minds want to know.

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post #2 of 26 Old Dec 14th, 2012, 10:52 pm
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

I put mine in neutral turn the ignition off;stand thier in the straight postion or even slightly to the right for a few; so it does not smoke when you start it back up ;then put it on its side stand.
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post #3 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 12:52 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

I have never used the side stand cutoff switch. Here is how I put my 2002 in the garage, and most other parking places...

I look at the spot where I want to stop, use brakes as necessary to drop down to a slow speed, pull in the clutch and use the stop switch to stop the engine. I coast the last 10-15 feet.with the engine off, but I leave the radio on so I have good tunes to keep me entertained. The brake booster is also still active, thanks to using the stop switch, so all I need is light finger pressure on the front brake lever to slow even more and not overshoot my stopping point.

During the last foot or so from my spot, and moving really slowly, I ease out the clutch to bring the bike to a complete stop, and then as soon as it stops moving forward I re-apply finger pressure to the front brake lever so it won't roll any more. I am now solidly locked in place, with no slack in the driveline and ready to extend the sidestand.

Ah, but sometimes I misjudge my speed and distance, so I have to pull in clutch and paddle around a bit to adjust. Once I am satisfied I let the clutch out and roll it forward until the slack is again out of the driveline. OK, now I can extend the sidestand and ease the bike over until the stand touches.

I dismount holding the front brake lever on so I can't roll it forward and off of the side stand, and then switch off.

This all take a lot less time to do than to describe, and I think I look smooth doing it!
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post #4 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 6:11 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

I rode over 120,000 miles on my LT, and always used the side stand switch to kill the engine. I used the kill switch a couple times, such as when I was sitting on the bike to talk to someone without putting the side stand down, but don't think I ever used the ignition switch to shut down the engine.

The only reason I have seen posted to support using the kill switch on the handle bar is that it is good to have that as second nature in case of an emergency to kill the engine fast without having to think about it. Good reason, but I rarely ever did it. Anyway, all three of my bad accidents killed the bikes, not just the engines.

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post #5 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 7:46 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
I rode over 120,000 miles on my LT, and always used the side stand switch to kill the engine. I used the kill switch a couple times, such as when I was sitting on the bike to talk to someone without putting the side stand down, but don't think I ever used the ignition switch to shut down the engine.

The only reason I have seen posted to support using the kill switch on the handle bar is that it is good to have that as second nature in case of an emergency to kill the engine fast without having to think about it. Good reason, but I rarely ever did it. Anyway, all three of my bad accidents killed the bikes, not just the engines.

Dave;now I am curious why you never use the ingnition swich to shut it off;maybe I should not be using mine ;something tells me thier is a reason for doing that way

Gary Emelander
2003 LT1200
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post #6 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 8:00 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
I rode over 120,000 miles on my LT, and always used the side stand switch to kill the engine. don't think I ever used the ignition switch to shut down the engine.

(
Exactly what I did/do for 60 K +. Same on the GTL. Roll a little forward to make sure the transmission is up against the stop in 1st and dismount. Hardly ever use the center stand except for maintenance. The ground is mostly level in Florida.

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post #7 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 8:21 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

I always use the side stand to shut the engine off for two reasons. First is to make sure I always have it in gear when I use the side stand (if it's in neutral the engine won't shut off) & second it keeps both hands on the handle bars.

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post #8 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 8:44 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

I, too, always use the side stand to turn the big girl off. I always park her on the side stand first because, being vertically challenged and not having a power center stand, there's no way I can safely get off her otherwise. This ensures that I never forget to put the side stand down.

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post #9 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 10:12 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryEm
Dave;now I am curious why you never use the ingnition swich to shut it off;maybe I should not be using mine ;something tells me thier is a reason for doing that way

Gary Emelander
2003 LT1200
No technical reason at all, it is just a lot more convenient to use the side stand, and as another said, it keeps both hands on the bars until you are ready to get off. I would turn the ignition off and remove the key after getting off the bike when I was ready to put the key away. Efficiency of motion more than anything else.

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post #10 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 10:33 am
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Talking Re: Question about side stand cut off

I've never used the side stand to shut off the engine.
I also never park in neutral.

I ride into the garage, stop, turn off the ignition, hold it to the right for the count to 20, put down the side stand, roll forward against the engine while still in 1st gear, ease it over on the side stand. I do that same sequence each time I park.

Each morning, it's mount the bike, get it upright, side stand up, key on, shift to neutral, start it up, engage reverse, back it out of the garage, disengage reverse, shift to first and off I go. Yeehaa!

If you have a routine, you won't get off and watch her lay down. LOL

Just my .02 cents on the subject.


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Bought used K1200LT number 3. This one is green/teal with 31,369(now 7/29/2018 54,143) miles and is an '02. The first 2 bikes made it to near 150,000 miles.
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post #11 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 12:56 pm
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by traderbob_nc
I've been a riding a new to me 2003 LT for a few months now and and I'm interested in the cut off on the side stand. Question: When you guys park your LT, do you let the engine cut off when you drop the side stand? Or do you hit your run/kill switch? Or do you put her in neutral and switch off the ignition? Inquiring minds want to know.
I use the ignition switch. This is the way that the engineers designed the bike to be shut down. I can't speak to the LT in particular and haven't studied the schematics, but many machines have specific shutdown sequence to control things like voltage spikes to the electronics, etc.

Using safety interlocks for other purposes means you are operating outside the design intent of the engineers. This may not cause an issue, but then again it may. It is your bike so you get to choose, but as an engineer I know that I often specify a certain sequence of operation for many good reasons that aren't always obvious to the casual observer. Operating the equipment differently may have unintended consequences, so I try to stay close to what the manufacturer recommends. When you see terminology such as "emergency kill switch" or "safety interlock" it generally means that these are not meant for routine operations.

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post #12 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 7:03 pm
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

I kill mine with the sidestand switch if I'm going to park it on the sidestand. That way it's always in gear as it should be unless it's on the centerstand............

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post #13 of 26 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 9:26 pm
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

The handlebar mounted cut-off switch was a good idea when bikes had left side mounted ignition switches on the headlight, frame, or side cover.

With most factory bikes having an ignition switch mounted in the triple clamp this is a left over legal requirement that should only apply to bikes that have the switch elsewhere.

I use the ignition switch to shut down my bike. The side stand switch is a 'safety' switch to keep me from starting off on the bike with the side stand down. I've used it for that, occasionally. Fortunately I haven't forgotten to put the side stand Down. The emergency cut-off switch I leave alone for an emergency.

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post #14 of 26 Old Dec 16th, 2012, 5:39 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

On a Gas station, first gear side stand out, release clutch. Same procedure on a parkin lot.
In the Garage, neutral, side stand out, ignition key off, get of the bike and put it on the main stand.
Is a 01 no hydraulic main stand.
Kill switch is used very seldom only if I lay her down .

Manfred
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post #15 of 26 Old Dec 16th, 2012, 10:12 pm
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

I had a 2002 LT with hydraulic center stand
1. Gas stops and parking - side stand to kill the motor and leave it in first
2. Only time the bike is in neutral is when I lift it on the center stand

I now have a 2009 LT with hydraulic center stand
1. Gas stops and parking - side stand to kill the motor and leave it in first
2. If I use the power center stand into neutral first and after its up turn off the key

For some reason I just never use the kill switch!!

And not to hijack this thread . . .
1. The 2002 LT on side stand did not lean over enough
2. The 2009 LT on the side stand leans over way too much!!

Dan Finazzo
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post #16 of 26 Old Dec 17th, 2012, 8:28 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Several have said that they put the bike in neutral before raising it on the center stand. I never did my 02 LT that way. I don't do it that way on my GTL either.

I always stop the bike in first gear and lower the side stand to shut it off.

On the few occasions where I am going to put it up on the center stand, I squeeze in the clutch as I raised it up.

Dano
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post #17 of 26 Old Dec 17th, 2012, 9:32 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Centaurious
The handlebar mounted cut-off switch was a good idea when bikes had left side mounted ignition switches on the headlight, frame, or side cover.

With most factory bikes having an ignition switch mounted in the triple clamp this is a left over legal requirement that should only apply to bikes that have the switch elsewhere.

.............................. The emergency cut-off switch I leave alone for an emergency.
My belief is that it is prudent to use the Emergence Cut Off switch each and every time the engine is shut down. Even though your statement that most bikes have the ignition switch located on the triple tree that still requires taking one hand off the hand grip to "kill" the engine. The obvious advantage to using the Cut Off is that this can be accomplished without taking your hands off the grips therby maintaining full control while shutting down. As far as performing any function only when an emergency occurs, it ain't gona happen. That's like some of the older riders saying that "I never use the front brake unless it's an emergency". The whole concept of "muscle memory" dictates that in an emergency an individual will respond in a manner that is consistent with what is normally practiced. Just my 2 cents

Lynn Keen
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post #18 of 26 Old Dec 17th, 2012, 12:37 pm
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Electrically it does not matter which way you shut off the bike as the side stand goes thru the reverser contoller and opens the engine electronics relay.

The emergency cutoff switch operates the emergency relay which goes thru the reverser controller to cutoff the engine electronics relay.

The ignition switch just pulls power from everything which opens the engine electronics relay.

Choose your favorite method and be happy.

John
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post #19 of 26 Old Dec 18th, 2012, 1:15 pm
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
My belief is that it is prudent to use the Emergence Cut Off switch each and every time the engine is shut down. Even though your statement that most bikes have the ignition switch located on the triple tree that still requires taking one hand off the hand grip to "kill" the engine. The obvious advantage to using the Cut Off is that this can be accomplished without taking your hands off the grips therby maintaining full control while shutting down. As far as performing any function only when an emergency occurs, it ain't gona happen. That's like some of the older riders saying that "I never use the front brake unless it's an emergency". The whole concept of "muscle memory" dictates that in an emergency an individual will respond in a manner that is consistent with what is normally practiced. Just my 2 cents
I've never seen a motorcycle where the front brake was designated by the manufacturer as an "emergency" brake.

Do you always stop your car with the emergency brake?

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post #20 of 26 Old Dec 18th, 2012, 7:42 pm
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
I've never seen a motorcycle where the front brake was designated by the manufacturer as an "emergency" brake.

Do you always stop your car with the emergency brake?
I think he was refering to the old adage "Never use the front brake or you will go over the handle bars". Just watch all the crusier videos on YouTube and how they only use the rear brake when they get in a panic situation and can't stop.

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post #21 of 26 Old Dec 18th, 2012, 10:03 pm
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
I think he was refering to the old adage "Never use the front brake or you will go over the handle bars". Just watch all the crusier videos on YouTube and how they only use the rear brake when they get in a panic situation and can't stop.
Yes, I understand that that and was simply making a distinction between using something in a way other than what the manufacturer intended (routinely stopping the engine using an emergency switch or a safety interlock switch) vs. not using something the way the manufacturer intended due to ignorance (front brake).

It may be that on a BMW it makes no difference, but this can't always be assumed to be the case. Switches designed for routine and frequent operation are often designed much differently than those designed for only occasional use.

For example, depending on whether the circuit is normally open or normally closed can make a big difference. If the switch is normally open and is closed to shut down the engine, this is generally much easier duty than for a switch that is normally closed and carrying current and is then opened to shut down the engine. I have not reviewed the LT schematics so I am not sure how the e-stop or sidestand switch function, but a switch that is interrupting a circuit will form a arc for an instant when the current is interrupted. This can cause loss of plating on the contacts allowing the switch to corrode and cease to function. Closing a switch tends to have this as much less of a problem as it is harder to "strike an arc" than it is to maintain an arc.

Now, one may say that you don't get much of an arc with only 12V, and that is true, but you DO get an arc even though you can't see it, unlike higher voltage systems where it is readily apparent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIkNY5xjy5k


Switches such as the ignition switch often have much different and better contact materials than do switches that are designed to only close a circuit while energized or only occasionally have to interrupt an energized circuit.

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post #22 of 26 Old Dec 19th, 2012, 1:04 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
My belief is that it is prudent to use the Emergence Cut Off switch each and every time the engine is shut down. Even though your statement that most bikes have the ignition switch located on the triple tree that still requires taking one hand off the hand grip to "kill" the engine. The obvious advantage to using the Cut Off is that this can be accomplished without taking your hands off the grips therby maintaining full control while shutting down. As far as performing any function only when an emergency occurs, it ain't gona happen. That's like some of the older riders saying that "I never use the front brake unless it's an emergency". The whole concept of "muscle memory" dictates that in an emergency an individual will respond in a manner that is consistent with what is normally practiced. Just my 2 cents
When I stop my bike it is with my right foot engaging the brake and my left foot down. I do this at lights as well as my final stop. This is the way I've always ridden. It makes it easy to reach up and turn off the engine.

On my last bike, a 2001 Triumph Sprint ST, if you shut down the bike with something other than the ignition switch it 'could' lead to problems with the bikes computer.

I understand about 'muscle memory', we all use it to find the controls we use every time we ride. Not having to think about where the brakes or shifter makes for an easier and safer riding experience.

What I have trouble with is trying to imagine a situation where I would need that near instinctive ability to operate the emergency cut-off switch. I think it would be better to practice the horn paddle than the cut-off. I'm sure I'm not the only one to flash my left turn signal at an idiot driver doing something.

53 MPG and life just keeps getting better

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Last edited by Centaurious; Dec 19th, 2012 at 1:10 am.
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post #23 of 26 Old Dec 19th, 2012, 1:24 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
----------------------------------------------

Now, one may say that you don't get much of an arc with only 12V, and that is true, but you DO get an arc even though you can't see it, unlike higher voltage systems where it is readily apparent.-----------------------------------------
It is not the voltage that is important when an arc is developed, but the current. 1 volt can cause a considerable arc if it is a high current capable source.

You can get quite an arc from a 1.5 volt flashlight battery with a dead short wire.

On the LT, the starter relay coil voltage is supplied from the Motronic/Starter/Reverser controller, and the emergency stop switch on the handle bar breaks the current to the relay. That one probably sees the highest switching current of all.

The clutch, side stand, and neutral safety switches all switch very low current inputs to the controller. Probably just a few milliamps to activate solid state circuits in the controller to break the supply to the relay coil. The switches do not do it directly.

In the case of the LT, your unwarranted fears have pretty much been overridden by the many, many hundreds of thousands of miles of use by people, like me, who used the side stand switch almost exclusively for engine shut off with NO problems. It is very evident over the past 12 years that this switch can handle that duty with flying colors, and no problems.

If my side stand switch had ever failed in my 120,000 miles, I would have replaced it and kept using it the same way.

People fear the final drive failure, arguably considerably less than the 4% of the early bikes, so no need to fear the side stand safety switch, with, as far as I know, a 0% failure rate. In my 12 years here, I do not recall even one side stand switch replacement ever being needed.

So, for anyone who uses the side stand switch to shut off the engine, keep doing it and don't worry about it. It is NOT an issue in any way.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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post #24 of 26 Old Dec 19th, 2012, 8:29 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Centaurious
I think it would be better to practice the horn paddle than the cut-off. I'm sure I'm not the only one to flash my left turn signal at an idiot driver doing something.
there is at least 2 - been doing it on all 3 of my Ks altho the LT switches are "better" than the K100 or K1100

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post #25 of 26 Old Dec 19th, 2012, 9:15 am
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Re: Question about side stand cut off

[QUOTE=jzeiler]I think he was refering to the old adage "Never use the front brake or you will go over the handle bars". Just watch all the crusier videos on YouTube and how they only use the rear brake when they get in a panic situation and can't stop.[/QUOT

Thanks John, you got it right.

As far as:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Centaurious
What I have trouble with is trying to imagine a situation where I would need that near instinctive ability to operate the emergency cut-off switch. I think it would be better to practice the horn paddle than the cut-off. I'm sure I'm not the only one to flash my left turn signal at an idiot driver doing something.
The emergency referenced is not that of an impending crash. Just one example of a situation where one might want to "KILL" the engine is when you stop and loose your footing and the bike is going down. Motorcycle engines are not designed to run lying on their side and depending on how full your fuel tank is a gas spill and possible fire might result. Anyway, it all comes down to different strokes for different folks!

Lynn Keen
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post #26 of 26 Old Dec 19th, 2012, 9:28 pm
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Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,191
Re: Question about side stand cut off

[QUOTE=Lynn_Keen]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
I think he was refering to the old adage "Never use the front brake or you will go over the handle bars". Just watch all the crusier videos on YouTube and how they only use the rear brake when they get in a panic situation and can't stop.[/QUOT

Thanks John, you got it right.

As far as:



The emergency referenced is not that of an impending crash. Just one example of a situation where one might want to "KILL" the engine is when you stop and loose your footing and the bike is going down. Motorcycle engines are not designed to run lying on their side and depending on how full your fuel tank is a gas spill and possible fire might result. Anyway, it all comes down to different strokes for different folks!
I agree with the different strokes for different folks!

I see that many here use every method other than the ignition switch to shut down their LT. I guess those who argue "muscle memory" must make every stop using their brakes in full ABS mode! I don't do this as I find it hard on the equipment and can really annoy drivers behind you. I find that practicing occasionally suffices.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
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