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post #1 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 4:47 am Thread Starter
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Packing while riding

I hold a Utah CFP (concealed firearm permit) I have a home in Utah, but right now it's rented out. Anyway, I first went to the FAQ and could not find any threads re: this subject.
I believe there are 31 or 35 states that honor my CFP. In NV I have to LOC (loaded open carry) but not conceal which I think is rather odd. Anyway, most of the southern states have reciprocity laws with Utah.
So, anyone out there besides retired LEOs have licenses? When you enter a state that does not reciprocate, what do you do? I know in CA it has to be locked up in a solid container, which I would take with me for those states that do not honor concealed permits.
How about UOC? (unloaded open carry) anyone done this?
I plan to pack concealed and follow all state laws I enter or cross. I'm an old guy and I can't fight - but I can shoot!
Eddie
ps my weapon of choice is my 9mm G19 and hidden away will be my former off-duty .38 S&W AirWeight.
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post #2 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 8:35 am
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Re: Packing while riding

In a nutshell, you follow the state's laws on transporting a firearm. Typically, unloaded and locked with ammo stored separately should comply to most states (there are a couple of Draconian states that are exceptions).

Following the state's laws extends to how and where you can carry.
Check this website if you haven't seen it before.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/

Finally, I would double check the validity of your permit if Utah is no longer your primary residence.

Dave
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post #3 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 9:05 am
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLo
I hold a Utah CFP (concealed firearm permit) I have a home in Utah, but right now it's rented out. Anyway, I first went to the FAQ and could not find any threads re: this subject.
I believe there are 31 or 35 states that honor my CFP. In NV I have to LOC (loaded open carry) but not conceal which I think is rather odd. Anyway, most of the southern states have reciprocity laws with Utah.
So, anyone out there besides retired LEOs have licenses? When you enter a state that does not reciprocate, what do you do? I know in CA it has to be locked up in a solid container, which I would take with me for those states that do not honor concealed permits.
How about UOC? (unloaded open carry) anyone done this?
I plan to pack concealed and follow all state laws I enter or cross. I'm an old guy and I can't fight - but I can shoot!
Eddie
ps my weapon of choice is my 9mm G19 and hidden away will be my former off-duty .38 S&W AirWeight.
Eddie, the only state that I see that you might have a problem carrying with a Utah permit, other than California, would be New Mexico. I found this page with some helpful info: http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=22127
Texas did sign an agreement with New Mexico that states full reciprocity as long as the holder is 21. Us permit holders need to stick together.

Robert

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post #4 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 12:47 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

There are quite a few states where there are no legal means for a non-resident to carry, just a few examples, illinois, new york, new jersey, california, mass. But you can transport under the Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA) as long as you follow the guidelines. When I am in transport mode I put the gun in the mirror case locked in my top case.

Here are 2 good references:
FOPA
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-200...-sec478-38.xml

State by state:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USRVCarCarry.pdf



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post #5 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 3:15 pm
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post #6 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 3:52 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT
+1 on that. I buy the updated guide every year.

Regarding the Utah permit: You do not need to be a Utah resident to have that state's permit. You can receive a UT permit by taking the course from a certified UT instructor - anywhere. I took the one-day course in Pittsburgh. Having the UT permit greatly expands your legal concealed carry options.

Regarding threads on this site, on this topic: They may not be in the FAQ or Hall of Wisdom but there are several threads that have discussed this topic. They're out there, with lots of discussion on how to carry, what to carry, when to use, etc., etc. Kind of like our oil and tire threads - lots of opinions.

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post #7 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 4:03 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLo
I hold a Utah CFP (concealed firearm permit) I have a home in Utah, but right now it's rented out. Anyway, I first went to the FAQ and could not find any threads re: this subject.
I believe there are 31 or 35 states that honor my CFP. In NV I have to LOC (loaded open carry) but not conceal which I think is rather odd. Anyway, most of the southern states have reciprocity laws with Utah.
So, anyone out there besides retired LEOs have licenses? When you enter a state that does not reciprocate, what do you do? I know in CA it has to be locked up in a solid container, which I would take with me for those states that do not honor concealed permits.
How about UOC? (unloaded open carry) anyone done this?
I plan to pack concealed and follow all state laws I enter or cross. I'm an old guy and I can't fight - but I can shoot!
Eddie
ps my weapon of choice is my 9mm G19 and hidden away will be my former off-duty .38 S&W AirWeight.
You mention "off-duty". Are you a former LEO?

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post #8 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 4:18 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

[QUOTE=dukey33]In a nutshell, you follow the state's laws on transporting a firearm. Typically, unloaded and locked with ammo stored separately should comply to most states (there are a couple of Draconian states that are exceptions).

Following the state's laws extends to how and where you can carry.
Check this website if you haven't seen it before.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/

Finally, I would double check the validity of your permit if Utah is no longer your primary residence.[/QUOTE

NY is a pain. My solution since I live in PA right next to the border was to get a NY permit. I was told this was not possible as a non-resident, but it turns out that working in NY also qualifies and since I do I applied for a permit. The application from Steuben County said on it quite clearly that you had to be a NY resident, but I just ignored that and sent in the application and fee. After getting finger printed, providing 4 references in NY state, a personal visit to my home by a Steuben County Sheriff's Deputy (very nice gentlemen by the way and we had a great discussion about handguns), and about 4 months of time, I got my permit in the mail. Had to visit the county clerks office to add my handguns to the permit, but that was a non-event also.

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post #9 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 6:09 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

Eddie,

I would research every state you will riding through to keep out of trouble. California is a real pain in the ass - certain ammo is illegal like the Zombie Max Critical Defense rounds. Also the maximum magazine size is 10. So I had to go out and by low capacity magazines just because of their requirements.

Texas requires that you immediately produce your CCW license when pulled over or you risk having it suspended.

And the list goes on. Fortunately a law as passed in 2010 allowing conceal carry in all federal parks if you hold a valid license.

I guess I'm preaching to the choir when I say that we need a national conceal carry law.


Greg


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post #10 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 6:46 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruivis
Eddie,

I would research every state you will riding through to keep out of trouble. California is a real pain in the ass - certain ammo is illegal like the Zombie Max Critical Defense rounds. Also the maximum magazine size is 10. So I had to go out and by low capacity magazines just because of their requirements.

Texas requires that you immediately produce your CCW license when pulled over or you risk having it suspended.

And the list goes on. Fortunately a law as passed in 2010 allowing conceal carry in all federal parks if you hold a valid license.

I guess I'm preaching to the choir when I say that we need a national conceal carry law.


Greg
One clarification on Texas.

It used to be that if you had a CHL (Concealed Handgun License) you were obligated to produce the CHL if pulled over, whether or not you were carrying. I believe that the law was amended to require you to produce your CHL only if you were carrying.

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post #11 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 8:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
+1 on that. I buy the updated guide every year.

Regarding the Utah permit: You do not need to be a Utah resident to have that state's permit. You can receive a UT permit by taking the course from a certified UT instructor - anywhere. I took the one-day course in Pittsburgh. Having the UT permit greatly expands your legal concealed carry options.

Regarding threads on this site, on this topic: They may not be in the FAQ or Hall of Wisdom but there are several threads that have discussed this topic. They're out there, with lots of discussion on how to carry, what to carry, when to use, etc., etc. Kind of like our oil and tire threads - lots of opinions.
Howard, thanks for this info but just how do I access those threads? I want to read as much as possible before my TX trip.
Eddie
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post #12 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 8:59 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by deputy5211
One clarification on Texas.

It used to be that if you had a CHL (Concealed Handgun License) you were obligated to produce the CHL if pulled over, whether or not you were carrying. I believe that the law was amended to require you to produce your CHL only if you were carrying.
Tony, I plan to *always* carry concealed where ever it is permitted. An unloaded gun in a locked container is useless if you ever need to use it. Unless the bad guy is willing to wait a few minutes so you can access your weapon which I think will never happen.
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post #13 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 9:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT
Ordered. Thanks!
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post #14 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 9:23 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

Eddie, does Pandora's Box ring a bell, If you are a RLEO, you need to know about POBRA, PATRIOT ACT etc. and have LDF to back you up. As a Citizen, there is just sooo much to know to CYA. Don't know it its worth it, just dont stop anywhere!

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post #15 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2012, 11:18 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLo
Howard, thanks for this info but just how do I access those threads? I want to read as much as possible before my TX trip.
Eddie
Just use the Search function on the top of your screen. For example: I entered the word "conceal" (without the quotes). That search returned 34 threads (discussions); the first few are:

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...hlight=conceal
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...hlight=conceal
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...hlight=conceal
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...hlight=conceal
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...hlight=conceal

There's a LOT of reading out there for you!
Other threads will be exposed if you search for "CCW", "weapon", "permit", etc.

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post #16 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 1:54 am Thread Starter
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
You mention "off-duty". Are you a former LEO?
Yes. Honolulu PD, UCSC PD, Santa Barbara PD. It was short but a sweet career. Lost 4 partners and good friends.
RIP: Larry Stewart, Robert Corter Merlin Kaeo (all killed in the line of duty) and Enoch Kaina, my good friend. (passed away after long recuperation from being shot by fleeing perp with .45)
Left LE partially because I had five children and my absence would have left my wife with inability to provide for my children.
Now, many years later if I pass while biking, I'll die happy. Of course I'll be happier if I don't.
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post #17 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 4:01 am Thread Starter
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Just use the Search function on the top of your screen. For example: I entered the word "conceal" (without the quotes). That search returned 34 threads (discussions); the first few are:

<deleted the links provided>

There's a LOT of reading out there for you!
Other threads will be exposed if you search for "CCW", "weapon", "permit", etc.
Wow! Great links Howard. Have spent the last few hours reading all the posts. Excellent posts out there. Never thought of using the search engine.
Thanks!
Eddie
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post #18 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 9:29 am
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Re: Packing while riding

Here is a good site concerning concealed carry.....

http://www.usconcealedcarry.net/

..............the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

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post #19 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 12:47 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLo
Now, many years later if I pass while biking, I'll die happy. Of course I'll be happier if I don't.
We will be happier, too, if you stick around a while!

Look me up when you come to/through the Lone State State!

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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post #20 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 3:03 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLo
Yes. Honolulu PD, UCSC PD, Santa Barbara PD. It was short but a sweet career. Lost 4 partners and good friends.
RIP: Larry Stewart, Robert Corter Merlin Kaeo (all killed in the line of duty) and Enoch Kaina, my good friend. (passed away after long recuperation from being shot by fleeing perp with .45)
Left LE partially because I had five children and my absence would have left my wife with inability to provide for my children.
Now, many years later if I pass while biking, I'll die happy. Of course I'll be happier if I don't.
The reason I asked is that I ride in a group with a former local city police chief. He said when he retired he was able to get a special federal license/permit that allows him to carry anywhere in the US. I don't know the details, but can ask him if you would like more information. He said what he has is good in all 50 states.

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post #21 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 5:12 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
The reason I asked is that I ride in a group with a former local city police chief. He said when he retired he was able to get a special federal license/permit that allows him to carry anywhere in the US. I don't know the details, but can ask him if you would like more information. He said what he has is good in all 50 states.
I could be wrong but any retired LEO can CC in all 50 states without this federal license/permit you speak of. Active LEOs can also CC in all the states.
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post #22 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 5:14 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
The reason I asked is that I ride in a group with a former local city police chief. He said when he retired he was able to get a special federal license/permit that allows him to carry anywhere in the US. I don't know the details, but can ask him if you would like more information. He said what he has is good in all 50 states.
LEOs can carry in all 50 under federal laws enacted since 9/11. Might your friend, the former chief, have an arrangement with his former employer wherein they still carry him as and active LEO?

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post #23 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 5:28 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by deputy5211
We will be happier, too, if you stick around a while!

Look me up when you come to/through the Lone State State!
Thanks! I would also be happier if I stuck around a a while, lol
Looking at the map of states that honor my UT CFP, a good way to get to Houston would be to do a clock-wise circle starting in CA (locked and secured) through NV (open carry loaded [if I wanted]) on to UT where I would start concealing, continue to WY, NE, MO, AR, and finally Houston. Returning to SJ I would continue the circle (hopefully stopping in Columbus) to NM (lock and secure) AZ (conceal) and CA (lock and secure). I could then start my map with 10 states visited. Anyone know about how many days I can expect to take doing this route averaging 400-500 miles a day? Without having to go to AAA to get routing, can I get this info online?
Eddie
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post #24 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 6:00 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLo
Thanks! I would also be happier if I stuck around a a while, lol
Looking at the map of states that honor my UT CFP, a good way to get to Houston would be to do a clock-wise circle starting in CA (locked and secured) through NV (open carry loaded [if I wanted]) on to UT where I would start concealing, continue to WY, NE, MO, AR, and finally Houston. Returning to SJ I would continue the circle (hopefully stopping in Columbus) to NM (lock and secure) AZ (conceal) and CA (lock and secure). I could then start my map with 10 states visited. Anyone know about how many days I can expect to take doing this route averaging 400-500 miles a day? Without having to go to AAA to get routing, can I get this info online?
Eddie
Eddie, do you have a GPS?
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post #25 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 7:52 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

Eddie - Google Maps, MapQuest, Streets and Trips, iPhone, etc., etc., etc.

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post #26 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 7:52 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLo
I could be wrong but any retired LEO can CC in all 50 states without this federal license/permit you speak of. Active LEOs can also CC in all the states.
I'm not a LEO and have never been one so I have no first-hand knowledge here. I am just passing on what I have gleaned from a few conversations during trips. I am pretty sure he said he had to get some sort of a special permit and may even have to get it renewed periodically, but I will check with him to get the straight scoop.

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post #27 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 10:36 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

I asked my friend about his retire LEO carry privileges and this is what he wrote:

About ten years ago Pres Bush signed a law commonly known as HR218. This was after the name of the legislation. Any honorably retired LEO with a minimum of 15 years can get a HR218 card, that allows the retired officer to carry in all 50 states. The original law required the officer to qualify with the agency that he retired from once a year. Many agencies did not want to get involved with "liability" by qualifying their own retired officers. The law was amended a while back which gives more flexibility to the annual qualification requirement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enf...ers_Safety_Act
Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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post #28 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2012, 10:51 pm
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Re: Packing while riding

HR218 allows active duty and retired LEOs (with minimum service requirements) to carry in any state in the United States. There is no special card to carry. What is required is a valid retirement or active duty ID card and verification of having qualified within the last twelve months. It is noteworthy to understand that when I am in another state, I am allowed to carry concealed under their laws, not those of my home state, and I have no law enforcement authority in another state either as a retiree or as an active duty officer out of jurisdiction. It is indeed a slippery slope. The yearly qualification requirement was modified to read the agency the officer retired from or works in or the agency where a retired officer resides. That keeps retirees from being forced to make an annual trip just to qualify if they moved away.

With all that said, under the conditions I would be willing to use deadly force these days I am not worried about the local authorities trying to second guess me.


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post #29 of 31 Old Nov 5th, 2012, 9:08 am
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Re: Packing while riding

If this issue doesn't tell you that we need a change in Washington, then nothing will
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post #30 of 31 Old Nov 5th, 2012, 10:26 am
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Re: Packing while riding

Why in the world would you carry a weapon in a visible position that was unloaded?

If some "bad guy" wants to challenge you because he sees the gun in plain sight, what are you gonna' do, throw it at him?

I never understood that one, nor did I understand the off-duty cops who had what was supposed to be a concealed firearm in plain sight on their belts as they saunter around. Great way to make yourself a bigger target AND take away your element of surprise.

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post #31 of 31 Old Nov 5th, 2012, 10:36 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Packing while riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by petevandyke
Why in the world would you carry a weapon in a visible position that was unloaded?

If some "bad guy" wants to challenge you because he sees the gun in plain sight, what are you gonna' do, throw it at him?

I never understood that one, nor did I understand the off-duty cops who had what was supposed to be a concealed firearm in plain sight on their belts as they saunter around. Great way to make yourself a bigger target AND take away your element of surprise.
California had legal UOC but lefties stopped that a few months ago. Here is an example of reloading. Takes only a second or less. I take about two seconds. That's for an auto load. Most UOC guns are auto-loads with an empty mag in the well. If a bad guy sees a weapon he has no idea whether it's loaded or unloaded. I guess the best way to find out is to challenge that person. Your last sentence makes sense. Concealed means just that. Out of sight!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls4Uq1aCiTA
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