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post #1 of 34 Old Oct 19th, 2012, 7:34 pm Thread Starter
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electrial grimlin

Got home tonight shut off key and the lights stayed on;so I turned the key a few times same thing. I pulled the - cable and put it back on lights still on.
2002 LT any ideas? Jim
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post #2 of 34 Old Oct 19th, 2012, 7:47 pm Thread Starter
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Re: electrial grimlin

sorry I posted it twice Jim
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post #3 of 34 Old Oct 19th, 2012, 8:03 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Hey, Jim - what lights stayed on?
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post #4 of 34 Old Oct 19th, 2012, 8:03 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

have you added anything electrical new, I added a slave relay wired to the heated passenger seat switched power and it intermittantly held the load shed relay on, tore my hair out trying to figure that one out, I used the ground from that wiring as well as +12 - it would turn lights on hours after bike shut off, killed the battery

do not understand why it acted the way it did

Gary
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post #5 of 34 Old Oct 19th, 2012, 8:32 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

One of your relays under the tank has gone bad.
I had this happen to me, took a while to find the culprit.

Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying " I'll try again tomorrow".


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post #6 of 34 Old Oct 19th, 2012, 8:43 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldan2
One of your relays under the tank has gone bad.
I had this happen to me, took a while to find the culprit.
I thought the only light related relay under the tank is for the brake light system. Dunno that for sure, butt I would like to know what lights remained on.
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post #7 of 34 Old Oct 19th, 2012, 9:51 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

For me it was headlight and my load shed relay was bad.

Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying " I'll try again tomorrow".


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post #8 of 34 Old Oct 19th, 2012, 10:14 pm Thread Starter
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Re: electrial grimlin

My headlights ,dash &tail stay on.
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post #9 of 34 Old Oct 19th, 2012, 10:23 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jriverside
My headlights ,dash &tail stay on.
load shed relay

Gary
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1992 K1100LT
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post #10 of 34 Old Oct 20th, 2012, 12:43 am
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Re: electrial grimlin

Take the bad relay to advance auto, they can match it up with what they have, may have to trim a bit of plastic, but it will work and for about $20 vs BMW price, you will be good to go.

Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying " I'll try again tomorrow".


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post #11 of 34 Old Oct 20th, 2012, 10:24 am
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Re: electrial grimlin

Not the load shed relay it will not cause a light to stay on, just cut it off. The ignition switch is the culprit in this case. The ignition switch feeds the load shed.

John
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post #12 of 34 Old Oct 20th, 2012, 10:39 am
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Smile Re: electrial grimlin

john, with mine, the headlight would not go out, I thought it was the ignition switch, changed it out and the headlight would still not go out. I replaced the load shed relay and it fixed the problem. I am not saying that Jim's problem is not his ignition switch, just saying that once I replaced my relay it fixed the issue with my lights staying on after I had turned the bike off.

Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying " I'll try again tomorrow".


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post #13 of 34 Old Oct 20th, 2012, 11:16 am
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Re: electrial grimlin

Mine does that if I turn the key to the farthest point counter clockwise.

2003 K1200LTC
with all the Goodies
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post #14 of 34 Old Oct 20th, 2012, 1:42 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldan2
john, with mine, the headlight would not go out, I thought it was the ignition switch, changed it out and the headlight would still not go out. I replaced the load shed relay and it fixed the problem. I am not saying that Jim's problem is not his ignition switch, just saying that once I replaced my relay it fixed the issue with my lights staying on after I had turned the bike off.
Your comment made me go look at the diagrams again and you are absolutley correct. The load relief relay is energized by switched power and the feed is right off the battery. When the starter engages the relay loses the ground and opens the circuit. A shorted load relief will light all the loads. Thanks for helping me get straight on that.

So for Jim to see if this is his problem he just needs to undo the insulated tie point behind the battery to remove the starter lead from the equation then hook up the battery negative and see if the lights are still on. If the lights are still on the the relay is bad. If they are not then touch the lead back to the tie point and if they come on the load relief relay is OK.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #15 of 34 Old Oct 20th, 2012, 10:38 pm Thread Starter
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Re: electrial grimlin

Thanks I well try that tomorrow. Jim
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post #16 of 34 Old Oct 21st, 2012, 5:47 pm Thread Starter
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Re: electrial grimlin

There are two big wires coming off the pos. side 1 goes to the rear and 1 looks like it goes into the big punch of wires going down toward the starter. I unhooked each 1 at a time and hooked the neg.The 1heading foward lights on. The toward the rear lights off. Do I need to take the tape off to find the starter wire? Is the tie point in the big punch of wires that are all taped up
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post #17 of 34 Old Oct 21st, 2012, 6:13 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

I think he was talking about removing the neg. wires from the tie point aft of the battery.

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post #18 of 34 Old Oct 21st, 2012, 10:41 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Wrong tie point. There are two - one is a bunch of brown wires with on Black/Yellow (with brown sleeve), this is the ground tie point. The second one has an isulated cap (if it is not missing) and this is the starter tie point. Find the black wire that goes forward up to the starter (usually the top wire). This tie point is the upper one in the photo.
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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post #19 of 34 Old Nov 27th, 2012, 10:34 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

I got a grimin: PLEASE HELP When I first turn the key everything boots up normally. Sometimes the right turn light, right driving lights, right rear light and right gauge lights all stat on. When I press the right turn signal I can faintly see that the turn signal is flashing. After I drive her for 30-45 minutes and turn everything off. Take a break and re start then everything works normally the rest of the day Seems to be worse on really cold mornings
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post #20 of 34 Old Nov 28th, 2012, 9:26 am
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Re: electrial grimlin

Check your battery voltage lately, Master Chief?

Antony (Tripod)
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If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

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post #21 of 34 Old Dec 1st, 2012, 12:41 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Great idea. I will put it on the charger and start it later today. I just put a new battery in my other older 1999 bike. I found a reasonable price gel battery that meets all BMW battery specs: http://www.ecomelectronics.com/prodi...58&ref=froogle $44.99 includes freight
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post #22 of 34 Old Dec 1st, 2012, 4:18 pm
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Wink Re: electrial grimlin

That is a good deal. Plus it is better than a Gel as it is an Absorbant Glass Mat (AGM) type battery, like the Odyssey!

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by e7navy1999
Great idea. I will put it on the charger and start it later today. I just put a new battery in my other older 1999 bike. I found a reasonable price gel battery that meets all BMW battery specs: http://www.ecomelectronics.com/prodi...58&ref=froogle $44.99 includes freight

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'12 Triumph 1200 Explorer "Shadow Tigger"
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post #23 of 34 Old Dec 1st, 2012, 8:17 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

I put the ole beamer on the battery charger and started it. The right side turn lights, right arrow gauge light and front /rear right driving lights all came on and stayed on. This grimlin I really want to get rid of before Spring 2013 comes. I do not have a wire diagram. When you turn the key there is a boot process. when it is time to boot the right and left gauge light the right stays on. I can still faintly see the right flasher but it is drowned out by the driving lights. Left flasher and emergency flasher work fine but the right side is drowned out by the constant on driving lights
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post #24 of 34 Old Dec 1st, 2012, 8:20 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Your comment made me go look at the diagrams again and you are absolutley correct. The load relief relay is energized by switched power and the feed is right off the battery. When the starter engages the relay loses the ground and opens the circuit. A shorted load relief will light all the loads. Thanks for helping me get straight on that.

So for Jim to see if this is his problem he just needs to undo the insulated tie point behind the battery to remove the starter lead from the equation then hook up the battery negative and see if the lights are still on. If the lights are still on the the relay is bad. If they are not then touch the lead back to the tie point and if they come on the load relief relay is OK.
is it possible that only my right hand side lights would stay on with this relay issue?
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Re: electrial grimlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by e7navy1999
I put the ole beamer on the battery charger and started it. The right side turn lights, right arrow gauge light and front /rear right driving lights all came on and stayed on. This grimlin I really want to get rid of before Spring 2013 comes. I do not have a wire diagram. When you turn the key there is a boot process. when it is time to boot the right and left gauge light the right stays on. I can still faintly see the right flasher but it is drowned out by the driving lights. Left flasher and emergency flasher work fine but the right side is drowned out by the constant on driving lights
No assistance here on chasing down your gremlin, but you can find color-coded wiring diagrams in your Clymer manual for the LT. What? You do not have one? You can get one HERE (and even get free shipping!).

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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If you want to be happy for a day, drink.
If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

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post #26 of 34 Old Dec 2nd, 2012, 11:50 am
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Re: electrial grimlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by e7navy1999
is it possible that only my right hand side lights would stay on with this relay issue?
No the load relief will not cause this. The "flasher" is actually an electronic module. It has a descrete output for the left side and for the right side. So there are no external items to influence this. Now having said that it is always possible this is caused by a bad ground somewhere in the right side circuit.

I would pull and clean each of the right side sockets, both the bulb fitting area nad the wire plugins, because that is most likely where your problem is. Grounds are always Brown wires.
You said, "the flashers work but were drowned out by the running lights". That makes me think your grounds are bad as the running lights are the lower wattage elements and the flashers are the higher wattage. They should alway be brighter.

Bad grounds can do funny things in this area.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #27 of 34 Old Dec 2nd, 2012, 11:56 am
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Re: electrial grimlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Your comment made me go look at the diagrams again and you are absolutley correct. The load relief relay is energized by switched power and the feed is right off the battery. When the starter engages the relay loses the ground and opens the circuit. A shorted load relief will light all the loads. Thanks for helping me get straight on that.

So for Jim to see if this is his problem he just needs to undo the insulated tie point behind the battery to remove the starter lead from the equation then hook up the battery negative and see if the lights are still on. If the lights are still on the the relay is bad. If they are not then touch the lead back to the tie point and if they come on the load relief relay is OK.
Hey Jzeiler: The right side turn lights, right arrow gauge light and front /rear right driving lights all came on and stayed on. This electrical grimlin I really want to get rid of before Spring 2013 comes. I do not have a wire diagram. When you turn the key there is a boot process. when it is time to boot the right and left gauge light the right stays on. I can still faintly see the right flasher but it is drowned out by the driving lights. Left flasher and emergency flasher work fine but the right side is drowned out by the constant on driving lights. I did put the ole beamer on the battery charger and started it just in case it was some low battery issue. Same ole grimlin appeared its ugly face. I suspect a bad relay or groung fault but this grimlin does not happen all the time. very randum.
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post #28 of 34 Old Dec 2nd, 2012, 12:04 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
No the load relief will not cause this. The "flasher" is actually an electronic module. It has a descrete output for the left side and for the right side. So there are no external items to influence this. Now having said that it is always possible this is caused by a bad ground somewhere in the right side circuit.

I would pull and clean each of the right side sockets, both the bulb fitting area nad the wire plugins, because that is most likely where your problem is. Grounds are always Brown wires.
You said, "the flashers work but were drowned out by the running lights". That makes me think your grounds are bad as the running lights are the lower wattage elements and the flashers are the higher wattage. They should alway be brighter.

Bad grounds can do funny things in this area.
Hi jzeiler: Does this mean I need to pull the gas tank again? Or are the electrical connectors all under the front Tupperware? I appreciate your advice. I suspect it is in the brown wire pinched somewhere. A BMW mechanic told me it was a bad switch but I seriously doubt him because the switch works fine even when the right side is all lite up.
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post #29 of 34 Old Dec 2nd, 2012, 4:03 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Single screw in the front turnsignal lens and it comes off. You then have access to that connector. In the rear - open both saddle bags and you will see a goofy looking 10mm bolt sticking out. Pull those and the rear lamp assy will pull out. Watch for two washers where the bolt screws into the lamp assy. They like to fall off. Then you can get to the rear turnsignal connectors. Should not need to get back into the relay box unless the flasher needs replacing ($123).

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #30 of 34 Old Dec 2nd, 2012, 8:12 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Single screw in the front turnsignal lens and it comes off. You then have access to that connector. In the rear - open both saddle bags and you will see a goofy looking 10mm bolt sticking out. Pull those and the rear lamp assy will pull out. Watch for two washers where the bolt screws into the lamp assy. They like to fall off. Then you can get to the rear turnsignal connectors. Should not need to get back into the relay box unless the flasher needs replacing ($123).
I check the front right flasher assembly and rear lighting. All was dry and clean. I aways store and baby my beamer. Very clean bike. Looks Like I may have to pull the gas tank. OMG that suck for me
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post #31 of 34 Old Dec 2nd, 2012, 8:20 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Single screw in the front turnsignal lens and it comes off. You then have access to that connector. In the rear - open both saddle bags and you will see a goofy looking 10mm bolt sticking out. Pull those and the rear lamp assy will pull out. Watch for two washers where the bolt screws into the lamp assy. They like to fall off. Then you can get to the rear turnsignal connectors. Should not need to get back into the relay box unless the flasher needs replacing ($123).
Do you think the flasher relay under the fuel tank is bad? Can I swap left with right and see if the problem travels with the swapped flashers? The right flasher does work faintly but again the driving lights drown out the blinking. very faint blink
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post #32 of 34 Old Dec 2nd, 2012, 10:06 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by e7navy1999
Do you think the flasher relay under the fuel tank is bad? Can I swap left with right and see if the problem travels with the swapped flashers? The right flasher does work faintly but again the driving lights drown out the blinking. very faint blink
There is only one module that controls both sides. They may look clean and dry but I would "rack" the connections (pull the spade terminals off and on several times) to ensure a good connection. Especially the brown wires.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #33 of 34 Old Jun 15th, 2013, 2:28 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Resurrection time. I'm having the same problem with my 02 K1200LT. Key off and lights and turn signals still on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
So for Jim to see if this is his problem he just needs to undo the insulated tie point behind the battery to remove the starter lead from the equation then hook up the battery negative and see if the lights are still on. If the lights are still on the the relay is bad. If they are not then touch the lead back to the tie point and if they come on the load relief relay is OK.
Is this assuming the negative is already disconnected from the battery and I'm touching that cable back to the negative of the battery? Or am I touching the negative battery cable to the tie in point once the starter cable is removed? I'm still trying to figure out which wire goes to the starter.

Would heat affect this relay? I unhooked he negative last night so the battery wouldn't die down. When I hooked it back up this morning all was well. I've driven the bike a little today without issue. It was near 100 here yesterday and I had been doing a lot of running around town so it was pretty hot under there. Is it possible the relay works fine until it gets hot and that's when it starts to stick? How do I know which relay this is once I pull the tank?

Thanks
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post #34 of 34 Old Jun 15th, 2013, 5:32 pm
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Re: electrial grimlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by photojojo
Resurrection time. I'm having the same problem with my 02 K1200LT. Key off and lights and turn signals still on.



Is this assuming the negative is already disconnected from the battery and I'm touching that cable back to the negative of the battery? Or am I touching the negative battery cable to the tie in point once the starter cable is removed? I'm still trying to figure out which wire goes to the starter.

Would heat affect this relay? I unhooked he negative last night so the battery wouldn't die down. When I hooked it back up this morning all was well. I've driven the bike a little today without issue. It was near 100 here yesterday and I had been doing a lot of running around town so it was pretty hot under there. Is it possible the relay works fine until it gets hot and that's when it starts to stick? How do I know which relay this is once I pull the tank?

Thanks
My engrish not so gud. Three separate items.

1. Disconnect the lead from the negative terminal and set it aside.

2. Now remove the lead going up to the starter from that left side insulated binding post behind the battery and leave hang free.

3. Then touch the negative lead to the negative post momentarily.

If you have lights when you do this then the load shed relay has its terminals welded together. You will have to replace it.

If the load shed relay is functioning correctly you will have no lights when you touch the negative lead to the negative post. Now momentarily touch the starter lead to the insulated binding post. They should come on. The starter motor provides the ground for the load shed relay. This means the load shed relay is functioning OK.

Never saw one that would stick only when hot, that is a new one on me.

Here is the relay location chart.
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2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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