Electro Hydraulic Center Stand - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 56 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 11:17 pm Thread Starter
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Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

I have read most of the threads about this but still don't have an answer to my issue. I have an '09 LT with 28K miles. Recently I have had issues with my EHCS beyond the ocassional misfire. At times I have had the stand fall while going up but this has usually been because I was on dirt or uneven gound. A few days ago I kept getting the hour glass symbol but the stand would finally work. Someitmes I get a "!" symbol, which I don't know what it means. Yesterday when I pulled into my garage the stand would not work at all. I took the bike out out to my shop and put it on the lift. I couldn't find any loose wires or anything that looked obviously wrong. I took the pivot bolt out and one of the bolts on the left side of the stand starter mount. I moved the whole pump/starter assy back but could not get it to drop out of the stand. Since it was getting late and I was tired I sprayed the whole assy down with WD-40 and left it over night. This morning I decided to put it all back together with the intentions of riding to BMW of Atlanta to talk with the techs. After I pulled out of the shop and back on the driveway I decided to see if it worked. Amazingly it worked just like it is supposed to. I tried it at least 6 more time in the next few minutes and it worked flawlessly. I cancelled my 100 mile ride to Atlanta thinking no need to take it to the doctor if it isn't sick. I went for a short ride later in the day and when I pulled in my garage...nothing again. All I get is the yellow light flashing and no sound at all. After several attempts I did get the "!" symbol. Has anyone had his problem? It sounds like something simple since it works intermittently. Is there a particular switch that could be bad or going bad? TIA for your advice.
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post #2 of 56 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 11:27 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

The hour glass is a built in cool down timer and is set by repeated attempts to operate the stand. Since there is no feed back to the controller from the motor it uses # of operations in a set time to set a cool down timer for the motor. There are also interlocks that prevent the stand from operating. Brakes off, in neutral, not moving, and side stand up. Common failure mode is leaking fluid and failure to fully lift the bike. The unit is filled with 130 -150 ml of oil and if it looses just 20 ml it will no longer go full travel. Fairly easy to fix as we have sourced replacement seals and have procedures to drain, flush and re-fill the oil.
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post #3 of 56 Old Sep 27th, 2012, 12:00 am Thread Starter
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Thanks for the reply John. The bike is in neutral, side stand up, and foot & hand off brakes. No nothing. No fluid leaks noted anywhere. I guess one of these interlock switches could be hanging up or something causing the stand to not operate but why would this give an overheat signal? Also, do you have any idea what the "! " exclamation symbol indicates?
Thanks,
Steve

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post #4 of 56 Old Sep 27th, 2012, 7:49 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by K12smitty
Also, do you have any idea what the "! " exclamation symbol indicates?
Frustration...... excatly what I have with mine showing the same symbol at the moment... out of the blue.
From another thread I think it might be linked to a brake switch sticking... but I thought that also cut out the cruise control, and that's still working OK...

Chris
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post #5 of 56 Old Sep 27th, 2012, 8:53 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

They list the lightening bolt and hour glass symbols here. I guess the exclamation point is the "call" symbol?
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John
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post #6 of 56 Old Sep 27th, 2012, 1:15 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

I realize that it is an 09, but how is your battery? I expect this sucks a fair amount of power to raise the bike.

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post #7 of 56 Old Sep 27th, 2012, 1:22 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepwalker
I realize that it is an 09, but how is your battery? I expect this sucks a fair amount of power to raise the bike.
You usually get the lightening bolt with a low battery condition.

John
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post #8 of 56 Old Sep 27th, 2012, 7:15 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

check for 12 volts at the motor plug while someone presses the switch while sitting on the bike, may be bad motor brushes. is your 2009 under the 3 yr warranty?

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post #9 of 56 Old Sep 27th, 2012, 10:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

I had to replace the battery last year. No lightening bolts. I have been riding BMW K bikes since 1995 with over 200K combined miles on 4 bikes with out ever taking one of my bikes to a dealer or any mechanic for service or repairs...The streak ended today. With a week long trip to Key West coming up the end of next week and the fact that my '09 has an extended warranty I broke down and took it to BMW of Atlanta. They had the bike on a lift before I left there this afternoon. They will diagnose the problem, contact the warranty company (Interstate) for a repair authorization, and order parts if needed. I can't wait to hear what they come up with. I will post their findings as soon as I know them.
Thanks for all the replies.

Ride Safely,
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post #10 of 56 Old Sep 28th, 2012, 12:01 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

I had a similar problem and BMW wanted to replace the unit. I took it apart, cleaned all the contacts and nudging, and it has worked perfectly for 100,000 more miles.

Greg and Melanie
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post #11 of 56 Old Sep 28th, 2012, 12:27 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

All BMW will do is replace the entire unit. We do have a good source for just the motor for those of you without the extended warranty. Most of the units can be repaired.

John
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post #12 of 56 Old Sep 28th, 2012, 3:10 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

I recently had the same problems with my center stand. After a couple of false starts, it no longer worked. Took it to my BMW dealer and they indicated that it needed to be replaced. Luckily I did have an extended coverage on the bike so the replacement was covered (Bike is a 07 LT with 30,000 miles). Got it back last weekend and the new unit is working as normal. Dealer told me that he had another LT in the shop at the same time with the same problem. In this case the owner did not have coverage so he got hit with an expensive repair.

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post #13 of 56 Old Sep 28th, 2012, 5:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Good thing I have an extended warranty too! I talked to the service writer at BMW of Atlanta this morning and he said they had orderd a complete unit and the warranty company had already approved. Now all I have to do is hope it comes in and gets installed in time for my Key West trip on Oct 5th. Update...as I am posting this BMW Atlanta just called me. The center stand is coming from Germany and won't be in for at least 14 days. Going to get the bike tomorrow and will have to be without a centerstand on my big trip. What a bummer!

Ride Safely,
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'97 K1100LT (104,000) "Red Ryder" (Sold Feb 2013)
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post #14 of 56 Old Sep 28th, 2012, 6:32 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
All BMW will do is replace the entire unit. We do have a good source for just the motor for those of you without the extended warranty. Most of the units can be repaired.
John is correct BUT when mine went they gave me the old unit and I repaired the negative brush connection and now have a spare unit to boot!

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post #15 of 56 Old Sep 28th, 2012, 7:28 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanshi
I recently had the same problems with my center stand. After a couple of false starts, it no longer worked. Took it to my BMW dealer and they indicated that it needed to be replaced. Luckily I did have an extended coverage on the bike so the replacement was covered (Bike is a 07 LT with 30,000 miles). Got it back last weekend and the new unit is working as normal. Dealer told me that he had another LT in the shop at the same time with the same problem. In this case the owner did not have coverage so he got hit with an expensive repair.
Check with your dealer on what he does with the old ones. I would be interested in them.

John
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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post #16 of 56 Old Oct 2nd, 2012, 8:23 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

I just had the power center stand fail...took it to the dealer today to check it out. They tell me that the electric motor that drives the hydraulic pump has failed. Unfortunately, BMW only sells the motor & pump in an assemble...for $1,100!!! Any ideas on where I can get a new motor or possible a repair on the existing one. It just can't be that hard???
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post #17 of 56 Old Oct 2nd, 2012, 8:37 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnytheBlade
I just had the power center stand fail...took it to the dealer today to check it out. They tell me that the electric motor that drives the hydraulic pump has failed. Unfortunately, BMW only sells the motor & pump in an assemble...for $1,100!!! Any ideas on where I can get a new motor or possible a repair on the existing one. It just can't be that hard???
The moter can be replaced with this one

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post #18 of 56 Old Oct 3rd, 2012, 1:39 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Have you replaced the factory center stand motor with this one? If you have, is there anything about the installation that is different? I really appreciate the help.
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post #19 of 56 Old Oct 3rd, 2012, 2:24 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

I've just ordered another 2 of them, this time through DBElectrical on Ebay. A couple of bucks cheaper, goes toward the postage. EMS have really upped their int'l shipping charge.
That replacement in the link works just fine, at least until it clogged up again. :-(
The motor is cheap enough, just take note of the 2 screws that hold it in. Shorter one goes into the body above the cog... Don't put the longer one in that hole or you'll damage it.

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post #20 of 56 Old Oct 3rd, 2012, 8:51 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Vince,
I have not had to replace my motor but have read a few threads from folks here that have, just used the search function to find you the link to the part.

John Baker

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post #21 of 56 Old Oct 3rd, 2012, 11:19 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Chris - I have replaced many starter motors on cars so i am guessing that this is similar. Is there an oil seal between the motor and hydraulic pump or does the spline on the motor just mesh with another spline on the hydraulic pump? Do I need to disassemble anything to get to this motor of just get under the bike and remove the bolts that hold it to the pump

Chris & John - thansk for the help.
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post #22 of 56 Old Oct 3rd, 2012, 1:07 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Best to pull the actuator to do the replacement but it is very straight forward. There is an o-ring but it is more of a dust seal. You have to cut the heat shrink and undo a screw/nut combination on the + lead. Then re-insulate it. Note the length of the mounting screws as one is longer than the other.

To remove the actuator you just need to remove the two M-10 bolts at the rear of the cradle and loosen (no need to remove) the center bolt on the exhaust banjo. Then the two 5mm allens and the m-10 that holds the actuator to the cradle. Remove the 13mm nut (hold the shaft with a 9mm) and it will slide out forward.

Are you sure it is the motor? Does it make a sound when you actuate it? Does pull the bkie up part way and drop? These will eventually leak fluid and no longer lift but they are repairable - just not at the dealer.

John
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post #23 of 56 Old Oct 3rd, 2012, 1:20 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Thanks for the guidance. i am pretty sure that it is the motor. When i try to put the stand up the indicator on the instrument cluster flashes like normal but nothing happens...no sound from the motor. The BMW folks check the power to the unit and said that it was OK. I just orgered a new motor and plan to install it next week. I'll let you know how it goes.
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post #24 of 56 Old Oct 3rd, 2012, 1:23 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

OK sounds like you are on the right track. Probably bad brushes in the motor.

John
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post #25 of 56 Old Oct 3rd, 2012, 7:32 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnytheBlade
I just orgered a new motor and plan to install it next week. I'll let you know how it goes.
Here's a short video of how to get the entire EHCS unit off, without removing any tupperware.
An easy way to get the bike on the centrestand when it isn't working hydraulically...
ride onto 2 x pieces of timber about 50mm (2") thick, ideally about 8" wide by 18" long, spaced for the wheel centres. Have someone help steady the bike on the other side when you get off, then push the stand down with your foot, and because the bike is already at it's lifted height, its very easy to just rock it backwards onto the stand.

Chris
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post #26 of 56 Old Oct 3rd, 2012, 8:00 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Great video Chris. I need to do that for my 05 reardrive pre-emptive rebuild I just filmed last weekend. I like the way you sped up the time for the bolt removal - that was a hoot!

John
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post #27 of 56 Old Oct 8th, 2012, 7:48 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

OK...everything worked really well. I ordered the actuator (started) motor from dbElectrical on eBay and it cost $29.95. A friend & I put the bike up on his lift and we replaced the actuator in about 1 hour. Taking the entire cradel down only required us to remove 5 bolts and it was easy. Replacing the actuator motor only required the remocal of another 2 bolts and one screw...really simple. So far...it is working really well. The BMW dealer was going to charge $1,100 for the part and another $250+ for labor. Thanks again for all of the help...you guys are great!
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post #28 of 56 Old Oct 8th, 2012, 7:59 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Glad it worked out for you!

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post #29 of 56 Old Oct 9th, 2012, 11:28 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Thanks for sharing the video on removal. Going to make my day a whole lot easier.
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post #30 of 56 Old Nov 6th, 2012, 10:51 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

I finally got my EHCS replaced. BMW Motorcycles of Atlanta did a great job. I arrived at their shop at 10:15 a.m. and was back on the road at 11:15 a.m. with the old unit carefully boxed up and in my saddle bag. As soon as I get a chance I will be diving into the old unit to do a rebuild. So thankful for the zero deductible after market warranty
Thanks again for all the information and the video you guys posted.

Ride Safely,
Steve

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'97 K1100LT (104,000) "Red Ryder" (Sold Feb 2013)
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post #31 of 56 Old Nov 7th, 2012, 12:48 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

If you want come on over some time and I'll walk you through a re-build. I always have seals and a motor in stock. We can even make it a Tech Session and invite others.

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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

That sounds like a great idea John. I'll keep it in mind. Any particular time or days better for you? I am retired and can schedule most any time.

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post #33 of 56 Old Nov 8th, 2012, 12:15 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

I am still working for a living so weekends are best for me.

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post #34 of 56 Old Apr 1st, 2015, 9:39 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Okay, I'm the new kid on the block and thereby a natural target for dismissal, but I still don't understand why, when the subject of the center stand is weak performance, a recommendation to try it with the engine running was dissed.

Particularly when my service manager of a very well-reputed dealer tells me NEVER to operate the center stand with the engine off because it risks damaging the battery with too rapid a discharge.

And while I'm here, a strong plug for John Zeiler, who rebuilt mine the day he received it, sent it back in like-new working condition. Gawd, if everybody would be as good as their word as John is, what a great world it would be!
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post #35 of 56 Old Apr 1st, 2015, 7:20 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Hi Urbanhermit... not sure where anyone "dissed" someone for saying run it with the engine on.... I expect most people do operate the EHCS while the engine is still running before they switch off because that makes sense to do so.... it's just that you CAN run it without the engine running if you need to.
No idea what the current draw is or drain effect would be, not an electrical engineer, but I do know that I've put the bike up without the engine running many times with no ill effect on starting the bike... but then I always have a fully charged battery using a tender when not riding it.
As John explained earlier, there's usually one of 2 things go wrong.... the small "honda" starter motor that runs it clogs up or gets corroded inside, OR the seals fail and you lose hydraulic oil. When either of those happen, you know it a long time before your battery will go out because the bike just fails to lift or it becomes very sluggish and eventually fails to go up.. it might get part-way but then stops, at least in my experience.
Here's to working EHCS units!

Chris
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post #36 of 56 Old Apr 2nd, 2015, 7:28 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Hello All.
Had the same issue with my Centerstand last year on my 08' LT w/10k.
Intermittent operation.
Took off the unit, removed and disassembled motor, cleaned brushes and lubed armature ends, all I have invested is my time.
Prior to removal, check for voltage @ connection.

Donn
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post #37 of 56 Old Apr 2nd, 2015, 9:40 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Point of reference. All the units will likely suffer from a leak after 5 or so years and once 20-30 ml of oil leak out they will turn into a bucking bronco. This will require a tear down cleaning and replacement of the shaft seal and wiper. Keeping the shaft clean with a periodic wash will lengthen this interval.

The motors are not that well sealed against the elements so if you have a dead motor it is often corrosion on the screw holding the grounded brush. Easy clean up. Do not add any lube in the brush area or they will disappear rather rapidly.

Still get strange looks when I put the old girl up on the stand while sitting on her even after 10 years.

John
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post #38 of 56 Old Apr 2nd, 2015, 12:05 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanhermit View Post
Okay, I'm the new kid on the block and thereby a natural target for dismissal, but I still don't understand why, when the subject of the center stand is weak performance, a recommendation to try it with the engine running was dissed.

Particularly when my service manager of a very well-reputed dealer tells me NEVER to operate the center stand with the engine off because it risks damaging the battery with too rapid a discharge.

And while I'm here, a strong plug for John Zeiler, who rebuilt mine the day he received it, sent it back in like-new working condition. Gawd, if everybody would be as good as their word as John is, what a great world it would be!
I didn't see a post where anyone dissed you in this regard. I don't know the current draw of the EHCS, but I suspect it is no more than the starter motor. If that is the case, then activating the stand with the engine off should be no big deal. Having said that, I almost use mine before shutting off the engine. I want the battery as fully charged at shutdown as possible!

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post #39 of 56 Old Apr 5th, 2015, 2:27 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

I had intermittent problems with EHCS turned out to be the battery. Replaced the battery and he presto no more probs. JMTCW

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post #40 of 56 Old Jun 23rd, 2015, 6:56 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

I am wondering if anyone knows if you are able to replace the existing Power Center Stand on a 2005 LT with a manual one? My power center stand is leaking, the electric motor spins, but pumps oil out of the seals. The replacement cost is just too-too much, so I am thinking I may be able to replace it with a manual center stand.

My BMW dealer sort of, kind of said "yeah it will likely work"...thanks - lots of help there. Anyway, I thought I would ask you guys and see if anyone has actually done it successfully.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!!
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post #41 of 56 Old Jun 23rd, 2015, 7:07 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daskoterzar View Post
I am wondering if anyone knows if you are able to replace the existing Power Center Stand on a 2005 LT with a manual one? My power center stand is leaking, the electric motor spins, but pumps oil out of the seals. The replacement cost is just too-too much, so I am thinking I may be able to replace it with a manual center stand.

My BMW dealer sort of, kind of said "yeah it will likely work"...thanks - lots of help there. Anyway, I thought I would ask you guys and see if anyone has actually done it successfully.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!!
Have you talked to John Zeiler about a repair yet? I wouldn't wipe out a "fix it" cost before going manual.... and not that hard to repair yourself either.

Chris
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post #42 of 56 Old Jun 23rd, 2015, 7:20 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

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OK sounds like you are on the right track. Probably bad brushes in the motor.

Dirty armature is all it is I think, mine did the same thing, I cleaned the armature and brushes and put it back together, that was a few years ago and it still works as it should.

A lot of silt/gunk was in their when I pulled it apart, about 1 hour to do the whole job.

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post #43 of 56 Old Jun 23rd, 2015, 7:52 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daskoterzar View Post
I am wondering if anyone knows if you are able to replace the existing Power Center Stand on a 2005 LT with a manual one? My power center stand is leaking, the electric motor spins, but pumps oil out of the seals. The replacement cost is just too-too much, so I am thinking I may be able to replace it with a manual center stand.

My BMW dealer sort of, kind of said "yeah it will likely work"...thanks - lots of help there. Anyway, I thought I would ask you guys and see if anyone has actually done it successfully.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!!
PM sent .

But yes you can replace the center stand with one with a foot lever but there is no way to add the lift handle (may not need it if your shocks are OK).

You can usually find the assemblies on flea bay. Best to get the whole frame with the center and side stands as it is an easy four bolts to swap it out.

John
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post #44 of 56 Old Sep 27th, 2015, 9:24 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Just read through this discussion. I'm having a similar problem and looking for easy solutions before I take it to a dealer:


2009 K1200LT, 59k miles. I use the EHCS every time I park the bike at the end of the day. Last time I rode (1 week ago), it worked fine. Today, not working.


Symptoms: normal EHCS light is flashing at 2Hz (normal, slow blinking) as though it is operating but nothing happens. No sound from the electric motor. Tried it with and without engine running, and all the usual gotchas checked off: in neutral, no brakes applied, not in motion, no clutch lever.


I checked the fuses; they are fine.


When I removed the passenger seat to get to the fuses I noticed a @#$% large mouse nest behind the passenger seat / beneath the top case, so I'm wondering if there is wiring that could be damaged that could produce the above symptoms AND make the EHCS not work?

Howard Schisler
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post #45 of 56 Old Sep 27th, 2015, 11:56 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Howard, check if you have a working rear brake light.... if that's out the EHCS won't deploy, although I think you should get the ! or something on the dash.
Otherwise may just be a dead (for whatever reason) motor... they tend to last around 5 years or so with constant use... easy and fairly cheap to replace.

Chris
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post #46 of 56 Old Sep 28th, 2015, 7:20 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Howard, Often the grounding screw for the motor brushes is corroded (inside the electric motor housing) and that will make it deader than a door nail. So if it was pulling OK up to that point then that is the likely culprit. Let me know when you want to come on down.

John
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post #47 of 56 Old Sep 28th, 2015, 7:49 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Update:
I cleaned up the mouse nest. First, by hand as best I could, then with a vacuum. Looked for evidence of wiring damage; saw none. Put it all back together and of course it works now. Could the mouse/chipmunk nest have caused a short circuit? That seems unlikely, as everything is contained and wrapped, but that is the extent of my electrical sleuthing.


Photo of varmint nest attached. Yes, this is a duplication of the same photo I posted in a related thread but I wanted you to have an idea of how dense the nest was.


John, I emailed you about heading south to your place this weekend. I think it's still worth doing, to get the EHCS components checked over and rebuilt as needed.
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Howard Schisler
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post #48 of 56 Old Sep 29th, 2015, 1:03 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Thanks Chris for that video, and John for the insight into possible issues and their fixes. Mine is working fine at the moment, but I've wondered about repairing it should it fail, as it looks to be somewhat vulnerable.

Cheers!

Mark
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post #49 of 56 Old Sep 29th, 2015, 8:01 am
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler View Post
Update:
Put it all back together and of course it works now. Could the mouse/chipmunk nest have caused a short circuit? .
No Howard, don't think Mickey had anything to do with it. The temperature changes will cause expansion/contraction at the motor and ground screw. Lot of electrolysis at that screw.
The ground screw in the motor is the most likely cause. Not hard to repair but you need to be very careful and patience is needed to hold the springs back to get the brushes in place.
Stay dry!

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post #50 of 56 Old Sep 29th, 2015, 9:46 pm
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Re: Electro Hydraulic Center Stand

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The ground screw in the motor is the most likely cause. Not hard to repair but you need to be very careful and patience is needed to hold the springs back to get the brushes in place.
Stay dry!
Next time clamp the drive gear in a vise lightly to hold the armature in place while you pull the cover. Then you don't have to worry about the brushes.

Yes Howard It should be looked over if you are up for the trip down. Looks like 3.5 hours if the traffic is OK.

John
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