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post #1 of 21 Old Sep 23rd, 2012, 3:28 am Thread Starter
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Disaster

Disaster has struck!

Last Wednesday, when I started the bike up, the starter motor would not disengage. I had to disconnect the battery. However, upon investigation, I have discovered the starter relay overheated and burnt out. I also bought a new battery, Yuasa and very pricey. I charged up the battery and replaced the solenoid with one I had in the parts bin. Unfortunately, the bike still doesnít want to start properly. Sometimes the starter motor turns over slowly or just doesnít! If I bump start the bike she runs normally and all ancillary items seem to be OK. Any suggestions please? I'd rather not dismantle the bike again just to poke around. Thank for any and all valuable information received.

I forgot to mention on the same day the weld on the centre stand decided to give way and the bike toppled over in the garage, not the easier of bikes to pick up! I had a sore shoulder for a couple of days after.

1999 BMW K1200LT "Galatea"
1976 MERCEDES-BENZ 280S "Lady Genevieve"
1993 MERCEDES-BENZ S320 "Lady Audrey"
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post #2 of 21 Old Sep 23rd, 2012, 8:50 am
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Re: Disaster

How long did the starter crank before you got the battery disconnected? I'm thinking your starter over heated/fried
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post #3 of 21 Old Sep 23rd, 2012, 11:05 am
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Re: Disaster

For a starting read, on the starter problem, click here. There is more info that will come up if you search on the phrases connected with that thread and topic. HTH.
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post #4 of 21 Old Sep 23rd, 2012, 11:46 am
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Re: Disaster

When your battery gets old and a little low, The early LT's had a problem with the starter relay getting welded shut...

And thus the symptoms you've experienced...

You need to get the correct relay if the one from the parts bin wasn't...

BMW makes a mod kit that cuts out the starting system if the voltage is too low thus preventing this situation...

Measure your voltage to be sure your new battery is doing what it's supposed to...

The starter is pretty robust and I don't think I've ever heard of a starter failure due to this problem... So get that voltage measured while you're trying to start her up and see what's what...

Also, There is a video relating to how to pick up the LT... You did it wrong and now you're hurt... Just search youtube...If you do it the correct way you won't get hurt..

John

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post #5 of 21 Old Sep 23rd, 2012, 1:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Disaster

I went back down the garage today. The bike cranked over slowly, and didnít start! I waited a moment and tried again, this time she did start. I repeated this activity several times so I presume the problem is in the relay, I did use na old one I had lying around. It is actually the same as on the old K100 series (12V 75amp Bosch 0 332 002 161). I now presume the problem is still the relay. Since this is the second K-bike Ií ve had and both of them have had this same issue Iíd like to fit the extra relay which Iíve heard about. Iím not electrically minded so does anyone have a schematic which I could show to an auto-electrician?

1999 BMW K1200LT "Galatea"
1976 MERCEDES-BENZ 280S "Lady Genevieve"
1993 MERCEDES-BENZ S320 "Lady Audrey"
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post #6 of 21 Old Sep 23rd, 2012, 2:01 pm
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Re: Disaster

Best thing is the factory replacement relay with the sensing circuit but that is $$$ (lots of Cruzados or Crusarios or what ever you are using these days).


The relay of choice is an old Ford starter relay this should help. The schematic is just for reference it is not how you would hook it up on the LT. Battery goes to the one big post and a lead from the second big post would go to the starter tie point behind the battery. Then the output line from your factory relay would go to the small terminal to activate the big relay
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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post #7 of 21 Old Sep 23rd, 2012, 6:46 pm
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Re: Disaster

Well... If you can get at the starter you could jump it and see if it works
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post #8 of 21 Old Sep 23rd, 2012, 8:59 pm
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Re: Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Best thing is the factory replacement relay with the sensing circuit but that is $$$ (lots of Cruzados or Crusarios or what ever you are using these days).


The relay of choice is an old Ford starter relay this should help. The schematic is just for reference it is not how you would hook it up on the LT. Battery goes to the one big post and a lead from the second big post would go to the starter tie point behind the battery. Then the output line from your factory relay would go to the small terminal to activate the big relay
This is the best fix! Do a canisterectomy and put the relay where the canister was.
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post #9 of 21 Old Sep 23rd, 2012, 10:29 pm
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Re: Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by I4neye
Well... If you can get at the starter you could jump it and see if it works
You can get to the starter at the tie point (insulated one) behind the battery - it feeds the starter directly.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #10 of 21 Old Sep 24th, 2012, 5:44 am Thread Starter
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Re: Disaster

Does anyone know the specs of the Ford relay? I can't just go into a parts shop and ask for an old Ford relay,can I? I've had a look on Mercadolivre, a kind of e-Bay, and there are several options.
Thanks, Martin


BTW, the currency is the Real (BRL). I moved to Brazil when it was the Curzeiro Real, then the URV which was a transitionary currency rate, before the Real was introduced late 1994. Very interesting experience indeed!

1999 BMW K1200LT "Galatea"
1976 MERCEDES-BENZ 280S "Lady Genevieve"
1993 MERCEDES-BENZ S320 "Lady Audrey"

Last edited by martin280s; Sep 24th, 2012 at 6:59 am.
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post #11 of 21 Old Sep 24th, 2012, 11:13 am
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Re: Disaster

Just tell them you need a bit ol' solenoid... They're all pretty much the same thing..

One big set of contacts and one coil to close them...

As long as it's 12V you won't have any issues..

John

Live and direct from the new earthquake capitol of the U.S. Jones, Oklahoma
08 Can-Am Spyder (Miss Lindy's)
03 R1200CLC Capri Blue "Flipper"
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The voices in my head may not be real, But they have some good ideas!


"I like the wind in my face and Boobies on my back. No, Wait, I got that backwards"

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post #12 of 21 Old Sep 25th, 2012, 5:55 am Thread Starter
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Re: Disaster

When I got home from work yesterday, again went down the garage and she did start up but the relay definitely is not at its best. I will go down the Ford relay route. I just have to buy another BMW relay $$$$$$$$$$$$ first!

Since I'm not electrically minded, why should the Ford relay be better?

1999 BMW K1200LT "Galatea"
1976 MERCEDES-BENZ 280S "Lady Genevieve"
1993 MERCEDES-BENZ S320 "Lady Audrey"

Last edited by martin280s; Sep 25th, 2012 at 6:23 am.
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post #13 of 21 Old Sep 25th, 2012, 12:14 pm
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Re: Disaster

Your shakey BMW relay is trying to drive the starter (High Current). You add a Ford realy in line now all your shakey BMW relay has to drive is the Ford relay (very low current) and the Ford relay then deliveres the high current to the starter. No need to replace the BMW $$$$$ relay.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #14 of 21 Old Sep 25th, 2012, 1:01 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Disaster

Really, I can still use the old relay to power a new more robust one? How should the Ford relay be wired in?

Am I correct in understanding that the heavy duty cable which comes from the relay and goes to the starter motor now ill power the new relay?

Does anyone have a schematic of the new arrangement?

1999 BMW K1200LT "Galatea"
1976 MERCEDES-BENZ 280S "Lady Genevieve"
1993 MERCEDES-BENZ S320 "Lady Audrey"
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post #15 of 21 Old Sep 25th, 2012, 7:42 pm
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Re: Disaster

Snip >
Quote:
I can still use the old relay to power a new more robust one?
<

I did on my '86 K100/EML . I took the cover off the BMW relay & filed the points up to get the burnt stuff off. Then used it to energize the Ford relay. Ford has a few different styles of relays. It took me two trys to get one that would work on my K100.

Patric Blackman
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post #16 of 21 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 2:06 am
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Re: Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
When your battery gets old and a little low, The early LT's had a problem with the starter relay getting welded shut...

And thus the symptoms you've experienced...

You need to get the correct relay if the one from the parts bin wasn't...

BMW makes a mod kit that cuts out the starting system if the voltage is too low thus preventing this situation...

Measure your voltage to be sure your new battery is doing what it's supposed to...

The starter is pretty robust and I don't think I've ever heard of a starter failure due to this problem... So get that voltage measured while you're trying to start her up and see what's what...

John

+1
Rreplace battery with Odyssy PC680
http://www.batterymart.com/c-odyssey...FQjZQgodgSgA2Q

Doug Holck
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post #17 of 21 Old Sep 30th, 2012, 4:24 am Thread Starter
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Re: Disaster

Yesterday, I fitted the auxiliary ĎFordí starter relay. I was expecting some difficulty in finding the part. However, the first auto electrics workshop I went into had one, a bit expensive but I thought about the return on investment!

Getting to the garage I stripped the bike down, only to find that an unnecessary task since the cable from the original relay ties into a connector block just in front of the rear mudguard, under the suspension pre-load mounting.

I bought one ready-made cable (+/- 45 cm long) and four terminals and 60 cm of heavy duty copper cable. I made up one of the cable and used the ready-made one. With hindsight I could have made both cables and saved some cash!

My procedure is as follows:

1. Disconnect the battery.

2. Disconnect the cable from the original relay.

3. Fit the heavy duty cable (+/- 30cm long) from the + terminal on the battery.

4. Fit the heavy duty cable (+/- 30cm long) to the connection where the BMW relay cable ties in.

5. Fix the new relay to the fitting for the suspension pre-load, where it will be grounded.

6. Connect the new heavy duty cables to the large terminals on the relay, one for each side.

7. Fit the cable from the original relay to the small terminal on the new relay. On the one I bought, there were two small terminals; the auto-electrician identified the one I should use. Please check when you buy the part.

8. Reconnect the battery.

Iím not electrically minded but this is a very simple procedure and now I hope to never have starting problems ever again! I know that the next BMW I buy will also receive this modification.

Surprisingly, I was talking to the owner of the local Honda dealership and he told me his son sold his BMW due to starting problems, not even the BMW dealership could sort it out. I explained to him how I had followed advice from this forum and made this modification. He was very surprised by the simplicity of it.

1999 BMW K1200LT "Galatea"
1976 MERCEDES-BENZ 280S "Lady Genevieve"
1993 MERCEDES-BENZ S320 "Lady Audrey"
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post #18 of 21 Old Sep 30th, 2012, 9:53 am
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Re: Disaster

I did that last spring and it worked fine until a day in August when we had 4 inches of rain in a day - water can go thru the seat and drip in the area where Ford relay was mounted - shortly after that the realy failed keeping the starter motor on. I have not taken it apart but I am assuming it was filled with water so this winter I am going to install one under top box where it will be protected from weather. These are extremly reliable relays otherwise.

Gary
2018 R1200RT
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2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
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post #19 of 21 Old Sep 30th, 2012, 10:49 am
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Re: Disaster

I did wrap my ford relay in duct tape just to avoid water issues, it does rain here in SD..
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post #20 of 21 Old Sep 30th, 2012, 12:37 pm
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Re: Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by aztechmaster
I did wrap my ford relay in duct tape just to avoid water issues, it does rain here in SD..
you are getting into ghetto mod territory

Gary
2018 R1200RT
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2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
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post #21 of 21 Old Oct 5th, 2012, 11:45 pm
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Re: Disaster

The newer models of the Ford relay in question contain a diode to prevent voltage spike from damaging the electronics (computers, etc.). Take note, the bracket will need to be adequately grounded.

Perry
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