Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 9:01 am Thread Starter
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Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

I have had what I feared was a valve noise coming from my engine, but now I am leaning more towards one or more of the fuel injectors being the culprit.

With the fairings off for other work, I walked around the bike and the noise is coming from the left side (rider orientation), where the injectors are, and not the right side, where the valves are.

The audio/video is on YouTube (CLICKETY-CLICK). Starts on the right side and the moves around the front to the left side, where the ticking noise becomes more apparent.

I have run a fair bit of SeaFoam through the system (for about 1200 miles) and have run Lucas through it for about 600 miles. One would hope that would have cleaned my injectors and improved mileage.

If the sound is an injector, is it likely to be in need of (deeper) cleaning, replacement, other?

Does a noisy injector have much potential to do harm, or is it just an annoying sound?

I have a spare fuel rail with all four injectors intact. Should I replace all injectors as a matched set, or is it ok to just swap out the offending element, if any?

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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Last edited by deputy5211; Sep 19th, 2012 at 9:36 am.
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post #2 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 9:15 am
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by deputy5211
I have had what I feared was a valve noise coming from my engine, but now I am leaning more towards one or more of the fuel injectors being the culprit.

With the fairings off for other work, I walked around the bike and the noise is coming from the left side (rider orientation), where the injectors are, and not the right side, where the valves are.

The audio/video is on YouTube (CLICKETY-CLICK). Starts on the right side and the moves around the front to the left side, where the ticking noise becomes more apparent.

I have run a fair bit of SeaFoam through the system (for about 1200 miles) and have run Lucas through it for about 600 miles. One would hope that would have cleaned my injectors and improved mileage.

If the sound is an injector, is it likely to be in need of (deeper) cleaning, replacement, other?

Does a noisy injector have much potential to do harm, or is it just an annoying sound?

I have a spare fuel rail with all four injectors intact. Should I replace all injectors as a matched set, or is it ok to just swap out the offending element, if any?
Valves are on the left side , about 3-7 inches below injectors.
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post #3 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 9:17 am
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Tony,

The link you posted goes to the bit bucket, nothing but a 404 error.
IIRC some clicking from the injectors is not unusual. So the next question would be is it running poorly or is it just the noise that is bothering you?

John Baker

2005 BMW K1200LT
1979 Suzuki GS1000E
1978 Honda CB350
1975 Suzuki GT380
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post #4 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 9:40 am Thread Starter
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Thanks for the link error note, John. I updated the link in my original post, above, and here it is again (CLICK). Hope this one works better.

The noise is worrisome because I do not know what it is and I do not know what the potential for harm is. I would hate to destroy the engine by not fixing it, but I would hate to have to spend the time, money, and loss of riding time to tear it all down for something that is nothing more than an annoying sound. If it ain't broke, don't break it.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

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'05 K1200LT - Dark Graphite - RIP 04 OCT 2015
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post #5 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 9:44 am Thread Starter
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMartin
Valves are on the left side , about 3-7 inches below injectors.
Thanks, Dan.

So... whether coming from injectors or valves, the noise would be coming from same general area. How best to tell which the culprit is, or whether the noise is indeed from one of those two components?

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
-----------------------------------------------

If you want to be happy for a day, drink.
If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

-----------------------------------------------


'05 K1200LT - Dark Graphite - RIP 04 OCT 2015
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'99 Road King Classic - Custom Blue/Silver & Chrome - "My Baby" Gone but forever in my heart!

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Last edited by deputy5211; Sep 19th, 2012 at 12:28 pm.
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post #6 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 10:20 am
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Tony - that sounds an awfull lot like a rod knocking, hope I am wrong - valves ticking OK - if you use a long screwdriver (plastic to head beside ear/blade to motor) as a stethoscope you will be able to tell more clearly - it's the only way I have ever been able to hear the injectors as well

is there someone close to you that could listen to it as well

either 14wntr or voyageur replaced rod bearings this past spring

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
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post #7 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 10:37 am
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Tony,
Does the noise change with RPM's?

I have a simular sound that I think is just the alternator rattling around and virtually goes away when I rev the engine a little. However since I have only my LT to compare noises with I based my assumption on others saying the alternator is noisy at low RPM's.

John Baker

2005 BMW K1200LT
1979 Suzuki GS1000E
1978 Honda CB350
1975 Suzuki GT380
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post #8 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 10:37 am Thread Starter
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by gary45
Tony - that sounds an awfull lot like a rod knocking, hope I am wrong - valves ticking OK - if you use a long screwdriver (plastic to head beside ear/blade to motor) as a stethoscope you will be able to tell more clearly - it's the only way I have ever been able to hear the injectors as well

is there someone close to you that could listen to it as well

either 14wntr or voyageur replaced rod bearings this past spring
Rod knocking? Rod bearings? I presume you are referring to the connecting rods and bearings described on pp 131-144 in the Clymer's manual under pistons and connecting rods?

What does that mean in LT Engines for Dummies language?

How does one confirm/rule out rods as the problem? Is there realistic potential for deeper harm from still riding it?

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
-----------------------------------------------

If you want to be happy for a day, drink.
If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

-----------------------------------------------


'05 K1200LT - Dark Graphite - RIP 04 OCT 2015
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'99 Road King Classic - Custom Blue/Silver & Chrome - "My Baby" Gone but forever in my heart!

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post #9 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 11:12 am
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by deputy5211
Rod knocking? Rod bearings? I presume you are referring to the connecting rods and bearings described on pp 131-144 in the Clymer's manual under pistons and connecting rods?

What does that mean in LT Engines for Dummies language?

How does one confirm/rule out rods as the problem? Is there realistic potential for deeper harm from still riding it?
at work, do not have clymers with me but

yes, connecting rod to crankshaft, you must have a long screwdriver,18 inch makes it easy, if you listen to a couple of spots along the crankcase cover (right side as you ride) you should be able to tell clearly if the noise is coming from there and even which end of the crankshaft.

I put the screwdriver against earlobe which closes that ear and hand over other ear and you can hear what is going on inside the motor - you can "follow" noise and eliminate where it is not coming from

alternator can cause a lot of noise - that just sounds like a rod to me - would not drive it a long distance until verify what it is

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
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post #10 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 12:26 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by gary45
at work, do not have clymers with me but

yes, connecting rod to crankshaft, you must have a long screwdriver,18 inch makes it easy, if you listen to a couple of spots along the crankcase cover (right side as you ride) you should be able to tell clearly if the noise is coming from there and even which end of the crankshaft.

I put the screwdriver against earlobe which closes that ear and hand over other ear and you can hear what is going on inside the motor - you can "follow" noise and eliminate where it is not coming from

alternator can cause a lot of noise - that just sounds like a rod to me - would not drive it a long distance until verify what it is
Noise is loudest on left side of bike, much less noisy on right. I do not know much about engines, but it seems counter-intuitive to me that I should be listening to crankcase cover on right with stethoscope/screwdriver but the sound is very much more pronounced coming from left side in open air (left/right based on riders standard orientation). Could this be a reasonable ray of hope that may not be a rod?

I would guess I have put on ten thousand miles with that noise, maybe as much as 15k... one- and two- up, with and without various trailers, highway cruise and fairly aggressive twisties.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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If you want to be happy for a day, drink.
If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

-----------------------------------------------


'05 K1200LT - Dark Graphite - RIP 04 OCT 2015
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'99 Road King Classic - Custom Blue/Silver & Chrome - "My Baby" Gone but forever in my heart!

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Last edited by deputy5211; Sep 19th, 2012 at 12:36 pm.
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post #11 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 12:37 pm
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

listening to your video seemed was louder on right side, not as loud on left (head), it just seems to bass sounding to be a large gap cam to bucket

if it has sounded like that for that kind of mileage cannot be anything serious

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single

Last edited by gary45; Sep 19th, 2012 at 1:18 pm.
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post #12 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 12:38 pm
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by deputy5211
Noise is loudest on left side of bike, much less noisy on right. I do not know much about engines, but it seems counter-intuitive to me that I should be listening to crankcase cover on right with stethoscope/screwdriver but the sound is very much more pronounced coming from left side in open air (left/right based on riders standard orientation). Could this be a reasonable ray of hope that may not be a rod?

I would guess I have put on ten thousand miles with that noise, maybe as much as 15k... one- and two- up, with and without various trailers, highway cruise and fairly aggressive twisties.
When was your last valve check?
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post #13 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 12:41 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMartin
When was your last valve check?
Not in the 20k since I owned the bike. That is why I am so hyped up about getting them checked.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
-----------------------------------------------

If you want to be happy for a day, drink.
If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

-----------------------------------------------


'05 K1200LT - Dark Graphite - RIP 04 OCT 2015
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'99 Road King Classic - Custom Blue/Silver & Chrome - "My Baby" Gone but forever in my heart!

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post #14 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 12:42 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by gary45
listening to your video seemed was louder on right side, not as loud on left (head), it just seems to base sounding to be a large gap cam to bucket

if it has sounded like that for that kind of mileage cannot be anything serious
Hmmm. I will check the video and possibly re-record. I am positive that the ticking/clicking/whatever is louder on the left (but that may not be the sound you were referring to).

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
-----------------------------------------------

If you want to be happy for a day, drink.
If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

-----------------------------------------------


'05 K1200LT - Dark Graphite - RIP 04 OCT 2015
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post #15 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 6:09 pm
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7191232...7631576987458/

link to sound of my motor, fully warmed up, valves are loud because they are adjusted to max gap - they were 3 thou under min and were extremely quiet until adjusted
85K kilometers/52K miles

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
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post #16 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 7:39 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by gary45
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7191232...7631576987458/

link to sound of my motor, fully warmed up, valves are loud because they are adjusted to max gap - they were 3 thou under min and were extremely quiet until adjusted
85K kilometers/52K miles
Thanks, Gary, I feel MUCH more at ease now! Not unlike the sounds mine makes. May ride down to Dan's this weekend and get mine checked / adjusted.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
-----------------------------------------------

If you want to be happy for a day, drink.
If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

-----------------------------------------------


'05 K1200LT - Dark Graphite - RIP 04 OCT 2015
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post #17 of 22 Old Sep 19th, 2012, 7:49 pm
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Plus remember all four injectors fire at the same time so they make a lot of racket. The knock knock on the other side does have me concerned but unless you rev the engine I can't tell if it is rods or the alternator gears banging around. Rev it up and if the knock stays there but gets faster be concerned, if it dissappears then it was the alternator gears. I have seen a confirmed rod knock (seen? I mean heard) once and it sounded more like a sewing machine so I think it is the alternator gears banging around at idle - normal.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #18 of 22 Old Sep 21st, 2012, 1:53 pm
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Deputy, this is Rapid Roy, where u been ? Give me a ring.
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post #19 of 22 Old Sep 21st, 2012, 5:55 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

RapidRoy wood have been a better handle than Booger1, even if not as descriptive.

See you tomorrow... Think about where to meet and where to eat. If Suzanne gets waved off from work, she will be with me.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
-----------------------------------------------

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If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

-----------------------------------------------


'05 K1200LT - Dark Graphite - RIP 04 OCT 2015
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'99 Road King Classic - Custom Blue/Silver & Chrome - "My Baby" Gone but forever in my heart!

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post #20 of 22 Old Oct 1st, 2012, 12:49 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

I uploaded a new video to YouTube that has engine at idle and with revs to about 4k (CLICK HERE).

Please listen to the sounds and offer your opinions based on this updated file.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
-----------------------------------------------

If you want to be happy for a day, drink.
If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

-----------------------------------------------


'05 K1200LT - Dark Graphite - RIP 04 OCT 2015
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'99 Road King Classic - Custom Blue/Silver & Chrome - "My Baby" Gone but forever in my heart!

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post #21 of 22 Old Oct 1st, 2012, 7:37 pm
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Sorry Tony. It just sounds like a typical LT to me. They are very noisey, and I could not decern anything that alarmed me.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #22 of 22 Old Oct 1st, 2012, 9:45 pm
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Re: Noise - Valve(s) or Injector(s) - 2005 K1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by deputy5211
I uploaded a new video to YouTube that has engine at idle and with revs to about 4k (CLICK HERE).

Please listen to the sounds and offer your opinions based on this updated file.
sounds OK Tony - it does have that rapping noise at idle but goes away as soon as you bring revs up a little - microphone can accent noises - sounds like a normal K

my K1100 had a rattle similar at idle that went away when I disengaged the clutch so it was something to do with the transmission

have you check the valves

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
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