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post #1 of 17 Old Aug 2nd, 2012, 7:36 pm Thread Starter
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Waterless coolant

My line of work get regular visits from folks pedaling something. They all got a better mouse trap.

Man came by today trying to sell me waterless coolant for the generators in my power plant. At $47.95 per gallon, 3 generators each hold about 300 gallons. I don't think so.

Concept is good. Boiling point is 385 F. Never needs changing, non toxic, use it straight, no water, glycol base.

Anyone with first hand experience with this stuff?

B D R
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post #2 of 17 Old Aug 2nd, 2012, 8:07 pm
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Post Re: Waterless coolant

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunny
My line of work get regular visits from folks pedaling something. They all got a better mouse trap.

Man came by today trying to sell me waterless coolant for the generators in my power plant. At $47.95 per gallon, 3 generators each hold about 300 gallons. I don't think so.

Concept is good. Boiling point is 385 F. Never needs changing, non toxic, use it straight, no water, glycol base.

Anyone with first hand experience with this stuff?

While I have not had direct experience with this kind of coolant, I can tell you to beware.

We all know a properly mixed coolant will have a higher boiling point as well as a lower freezing point than straight H2O. However, one other major function of the coolant is to prevent internal corrosion and cavitation (caused by hot spots adjacent to combusion chambers - called nucleate boiling).

The waterless coolants are essentially straight glycol with some additives. Unless you have cooling problems caused by cavitation (nucleate boiling), there is really no reason to use them. In fact, the only real use for these coolants are in severe conditions and in high HP racecars. If the corrosion inhibitors are not right, your engine internals will be severely damaged over time.

One other thing to watch for is a possible voiding of any OEM warranties for untested or incompatible coolants.The last thing you need is for pump seals to let go.

I would save your $$ and keep your existing coolant.

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post #3 of 17 Old Aug 2nd, 2012, 9:17 pm
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Re: Waterless coolant

There are quite a few of the Valkyrie guys using Evans coolant and they swear by it..bikes run cooler, fans seldom come on and never needs changing. You do have to get all the water out of the system before you put it in...

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post #4 of 17 Old Aug 2nd, 2012, 11:40 pm
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Re: Waterless coolant

Quote:
Originally Posted by olddog1946
There are quite a few of the Valkyrie guys using Evans coolant and they swear by it... fans seldom come on ...
No sale here. Heat is heat, and any liquid you stuff into the engine and cooling system will transfer heat from the block to the radiator, and probably get just as hot doing it.

In slow riding there is less airflow through the radiator and heat is not rejected as quickly, so coolant temperature rises. The stuff in the cooling system may not boil at 212F, or 225F, but it will get hot enough to trip the cooling fan switch.
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post #5 of 17 Old Aug 3rd, 2012, 7:16 am
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Re: Waterless coolant

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Originally Posted by JimH
No sale here. Heat is heat, and any liquid you stuff into the engine and cooling system will transfer heat from the block to the radiator, and probably get just as hot doing it.

In slow riding there is less airflow through the radiator and heat is not rejected as quickly, so coolant temperature rises. The stuff in the cooling system may not boil at 212F, or 225F, but it will get hot enough to trip the cooling fan switch.

Excellent answer. The coolant has nothing to do with the heat output of the engine, nor does it conduct heat any better than regular coolant (sans cavitation). The Evans (and others like it) coolants only are really useful in racing applications.

The temperature is the temperature and the thermostat activates all the same. Also, the radiator cap is set to release at a specific system pressure which is also temperature driven.

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post #6 of 17 Old Jul 25th, 2013, 6:02 pm
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Re: Waterless coolant

Was checking on the Evans waterless coolant. Correct me if I am wrong but from my understanding with the waterless coolant there is no preasure build up due to no water in the system. Have read some other LT users have used with no ill effects. Did read somewhere that it is slightly flammable so you have to be careful in that regard. Alot of the

Anyone had any expeience with this stuff ?

Comments from an ST user:

There are quite a few advantages to using a waterless coolant. For one thing your cooling system and components will last almost forever. The coolant is permanent so coolant flushes etc. are eliminated and oxide buildup in the cooling system is eliminated. Waterless coolant boiling point is over 375 degrees f. The high boiling point keeps pressure buildup in the cooling system down so much you can remove the radiator cap from a hot engine without worry about coolant blowing out. While it is true that water/coolant blend has a slightly better ability to remove heat it offers far less protection due to the fact that it requires a pressurized system to raise the boiling point high enough to act as a coolant and also has a rapid failure point when your engine gets very hot. A really hot engine produces a vapor barrier on hot surfaces that causes hot spots and overheating and engine damage potential that the waterless coolant will not. You can run an engine with waterless coolant at very high temperatures without damage that an engine using typical coolant blended with water would boil over and stop. The higher boiling point of the waterless coolant can cool a very hot engine a lot better because it will not produce vapor and boil over. The coolant with water even though it can remove more heat reaches its failure point at its lower boiling point and loses its ability to cool. I have personally run an engine on my desert bike with a bad water pump over 15 miles with no coolant circulation and did not boil over or damage the engine. I had to to get back to camp. If I had coolant with water in it this would not have been possible. I know others have their own opinions about this but after 15 plus years running Evans waterless coolant in all my vehicles I am sold.*


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post #7 of 17 Old Jul 25th, 2013, 6:18 pm
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Re: Waterless coolant

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunny
My line of work get regular visits from folks pedaling something. They all got a better mouse trap.

Man came by today trying to sell me waterless coolant for the generators in my power plant. At $47.95 per gallon, 3 generators each hold about 300 gallons. I don't think so.

Concept is good. Boiling point is 385 F. Never needs changing, non toxic, use it straight, no water, glycol base.

Anyone with first hand experience with this stuff?
Nothing out there cools like water, that is why Dragsters run straight water with a very little "water wetter" agent. they never use glycol as that causes the water to not transfer heat out very well.

Boiling at 385 has very little use when your seals start to melt at 295.

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post #8 of 17 Old Jul 25th, 2013, 6:44 pm
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Re: Waterless coolant

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgray
Nothing out there cools like water, that is why Dragsters run straight water with a very little "water wetter" agent. they never use glycol as that causes the water to not transfer heat out very well.

Boiling at 385 has very little use when your seals start to melt at 295.

When I was running dirt track cars glycol was not allowed, too slippery on the track. Did not have anything to do with heat transfer.

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post #9 of 17 Old Jul 25th, 2013, 7:02 pm
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Re: Waterless coolant

There are not too many things that do not expand when heated so I don't know if I buy the "no pressure build up" theme.

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post #10 of 17 Old Jul 25th, 2013, 10:20 pm
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Re: Waterless coolant

Evans type coolant have been around for awhile, IIRC they were developed for aircraft applications.

All the high boiling point stuff is moot when you've hit 260 and the head starts warping.

It's just another way to separate a fool and his money - this is coming from a guy who tends tobe very oipen minded about "the better mousetrap" . I just don't see exceptional boiling point to be a big selling item when I'm doing everything to avoid excessive heat because of the damage it does. Steve
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post #11 of 17 Old Jul 26th, 2013, 7:27 am
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Re: Waterless coolant

I imagine that 15 miles in the desert with no water pump would be resulting in very weak rings and scuffed piston skirts at the very least. Piston rings will not retain the same tension after they have had a heating like that regardless of it the coolant "boiled". Not to mention valves etc. A good synthetic oil would help in the extremes but it to has its limits

Never having to change it might be a good thing, if in fact it does no damage over the long term

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post #12 of 17 Old Jul 26th, 2013, 10:49 am
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Re: Waterless coolant

The pressure building in a cooling system relies on the properties of water, and specifically the vapor pressure. Water at 212 deg F has a vapor pressure of exactly 1 atmosphere, i.e. 14.7 psi and will boil if in an open container. In a cooling system the radiator cap suppresses boiling by containing the steam that is formed, increasing the system pressure to equal the vapor pressure and thus prevents boiling. This increase in pressure in a cooling system has little to do with thermal expansion. The same effect is used in a pressure cooker to increase the temperature of the medium.

Pure ethylene glycol has a vapor pressure of only about 0.3 psi at 212 deg F, and only boils at 387 deg F. Running pure ethylene glycol in a typical cooling system will thus result in a system operating at atmospheric pressure, i.e in essence without a radiator cap. There will be virtually no pressure rise.

Ethylene and propylene glycol both have lower heat transfer efficiencies than water and are denser than water. To provide the same cooling effect a glycol system will require higher flowrates and/or heat exchange areas. The cooling systems on most vehicles are marginally sized to contain cost, weight and space, and operating on pure glycol could cause overheating at full load. This is also the reason why an overheating problem can sometimes be solved by running pure water rather than a water/glycol mix.

The ideal coolant would be water with only a corrosion inhibitor. The reason glycol is added is to avoid the unfortunate and costly effect of water freezing. But pure ethylene glycol freezes at 9 deg F and will also not do well in really cold climates. Strangely enough ethylene glycol mixed with water will remain liquid as low as -50 deg F depending on the mixing ratio. For all practical purposes a 50/50 mixture is mostly recommended since it provides a balance between sufficient protection against freezing and compromised cooling efficiency.

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post #13 of 17 Old Jul 26th, 2013, 2:15 pm
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Re: Waterless coolant

Well said Andres.......

We had some trouble here at work with large (1000+hp)chillers in highrise buildings. Some of them are glycol transfer type remote exchangers/ with chilled water on one side/glycol mix on the other.

Long story short........glycol was changed out last year and mixture was too strong, and the result was less heat transfer......... bring mix down to 35% and all is good again

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post #14 of 17 Old Jul 27th, 2013, 3:26 pm
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Re: Waterless coolant

I learned something here. Of course that leads to more questions....

Evan's coolant. Reading comments online about it some note that it has a thicker viscosity than "standard" coolant. Evan's sells at least 3 different types, but I can't find mention of the viscosity of each... or what is most like 50/50 distilled water and Prestone.

Water boils at 212 degrees. A 50/50 mix of Distilled water and Prestone "any car" boils at approx. 228 degrees, adding a pressure cap raises the boiling point approx 2-3 degrees for every psi of rated cap pressure, or for a .9 bar cap 13 degrees, for a new pressurized boiling point of approx 240 degrees, still shy of head warping temps.. which on an air cooled airplane engine are set at 420 degrees.

So Evan's type non water coolant can operate without "pressure" because it is not boiling. I like the concept of 375 degree "boiling" point, takes the issue of a bad cap out of the equation... The cap is there to raise the boiling point, a non issue with the Evan's.

No "boiling" means no pressure, I like the concept! ... but which product?

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post #15 of 17 Old May 30th, 2014, 6:47 am
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Re: Waterless coolant

love evans
had in my car for 1.5 years
had it in my k75
now in my 2000 lt

Also removes the electrolytic action that happens with aluminum and other metals, also eats up head gaskets.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...BEOwwmq4AgGiPg

Jay Leno swares by it after one of his million dollar cars was corroding from the inside.

I also survived an accidentally cut hose because there is no pressure in the system.

I can open the radiator cap when the car is running at 210 degrees

I even say a guy online put a meter in coolant and show how it becomes a battery after its old.

since the lt does not make it easy to change coolant, why change it at all
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post #16 of 17 Old Jun 14th, 2014, 8:03 pm
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Re: Waterless coolant

Changed coolant to evans waterless 2 years ago on my car, 6 months ago on my k75
3 weeks ago on my 2000 k1200lt
Just took a 400 plus mile trip, ran great under half temp in all conditions
Even sat in traffic at lake George Americade for a few hours
No pressure build up , was so easy to fill never got airbound or hot

There is no reason to not use it, especially since BMW decided to make the Rad cap impossible to get to and check ever, they are a match made for each other.
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post #17 of 17 Old Jun 14th, 2014, 9:10 pm
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Re: Waterless coolant

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkinskg View Post
Changed coolant to evans waterless 2 years ago on my car, 6 months ago on my k75
3 weeks ago on my 2000 k1200lt
Just took a 400 plus mile trip, ran great under half temp in all conditions
Even sat in traffic at lake George Americade for a few hours
No pressure build up , was so easy to fill never got airbound or hot

There is no reason to not use it, especially since BMW decided to make the Rad cap impossible to get to and check ever, they are a match made for each other.
Found this in the Corvette forum. The Evans web site admits that the engine will run 3-7 degrees hotter due to the lower heat transfer ability as compared to a water based coolant. Will this shorten the engine life of an LT? Don't know, but in hot weather or high altitude, I would be concerned.

Re: Evans Waterless Coolant (Tom DeWitt)
When the "environmentally and pet-safe" Sierra propylene glycol-based anti-freeze/coolant hit the aftermarket several years ago, we (Chrysler/Viper Engineering) ran a thorough test program on it, which showed clearly that it had about 10% lower heat-transfer capability than an equivalent blend of the traditional ethylene glycol-based ("green stuff") coolants we specified for factory fill. Ever since, Chrysler products carry a black-bordered warning in the owner's manual that says "This vehicle has not been designed for use with Propylene Glycol-based coolants. Use of Propylene Glycol-based coolants is not recommended. Use of non-recommended coolants may result in engine damage that may not be covered under the new vehicle warranty, and have been shown to decrease corrosion protection. If such coolants are introduced into the cooling system in an emergency, the system should be drained, flushed, and replaced with the specified coolant as soon as possible."

The Evans stuff may work in sprint cars with huge radiators, but it isn't worth squat in street-driven cars. :nonod:

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