No cranking and will not pop...any ideas? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 31 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 5:02 pm Thread Starter
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No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

A couple weeks ago, I took my 08 LT into a BMW dealer for new tires. The tech noticed a slow crank when he started it for the test ride. He then tested the battery and it was bad. A new battery was installed and I made it home and once more without incident.*

Last week, I jumped on to ride to work and it did not crank. *The electronics tests all seem to pass when the key is turned on. *Nothing happens when the start button is depressed.*

I checked:
* Kick stand up
* Not in reverse
* Kill switch set to run
* Not in gear and clutch pulled in
* I cycled the remote control security system
* Swapped batteries with my buddies 09 LT
**
I tried popping the clutch 4 times and it did not kick at all. *I've popped it in the past and it worked easily.*

So between not cranking at all and not sparking during a popping clutch, I am leaning towards the anti theft system. *

I've search this website for similar conditions, but did not see any. I really do not like the idea of towing it into the dealer. *Any ideas are appreciated. * )

Thanks.*

Paul
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post #2 of 31 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 6:26 pm
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ordloop
I tried popping the clutch 4 times and it did not kick at all. *I've popped it in the past and it worked easily.*

So between not cranking at all and not sparking during a popping clutch, I am leaning towards the anti theft system. *

I've search this website for similar conditions, but did not see any. I really do not like the idea of towing it into the dealer. *Any ideas are appreciated. * )

Thanks.*

Paul
what is "not sparking during a popping clutch" - not sparking = not firing?

Gary
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post #3 of 31 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 6:51 pm
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

I would double check the battery connections and then install a new battery in the remote.


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post #4 of 31 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 7:24 pm Thread Starter
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Gary,

Yes, not firing.

Paul
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post #5 of 31 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 7:46 pm
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

OK Battery was out and the alarm may have reverted to "immobilizer ON" default. That means to start the bike you must hit the smooth button on the FOB before every start. Try that and let us know what happened.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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post #6 of 31 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 8:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

John,

I turned the key on, depresses the smooth button on the remote (the security LED light on dashboard blinked once) and I tried starting it. No good.

Thanks

Paul
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post #7 of 31 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 11:49 pm
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Sorry, for this repeat question but just for clarification, would I be correct that you tried to start it while rolling it in gear and popping the clutch? If so, it would seem to be the alarm, loose connections or something electrical. Can you hear the fuel pump start up and do you get full lights when turning on the key?

Wade
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post #8 of 31 Old Jul 24th, 2012, 7:53 am
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

just for grins try to jump start the bike from a Car battery.

Maybe the dealer installed battery was also bad?

2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц 2 March '12 -
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post #9 of 31 Old Jul 24th, 2012, 8:14 am
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ordloop
John,

I turned the key on, depresses the smooth button on the remote (the security LED light on dashboard blinked once) and I tried starting it. No good.

Thanks

Paul
If the "immobilizer" is "set" the red alarm light will be on when you turn the key to the on position. (I don't remember which button is smooth because both of mine are). Pressing the "left" button on the fob will deactivate the immobilizer and the red alarm light will go off to signal you can start the bike if that is the case. Let us know.

Just Go
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post #10 of 31 Old Jul 24th, 2012, 8:51 am
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Does the fuel pump whine in the tank when you switch on (with gear in neutral / clutch engaged, kill switch off and side stand up)?

Born to be wild so why not

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post #11 of 31 Old Jul 24th, 2012, 12:07 pm
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

There is a circuit in the starter relay that will prevent the starter operating if the voltage is below a set point. Measure the battery terminal voltage while attempting a start. Also tell me how many wires (large ones) are on the positive terminal of the battery. If you are missing one she will not start.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #12 of 31 Old Jul 24th, 2012, 11:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Dean,

I double checked the battery connections and they are tight. Instead of replacing the batteries in my FOB, I tried my spare FOB and had the same results.

Thanks
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post #13 of 31 Old Jul 24th, 2012, 11:58 pm Thread Starter
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Wade,

Yes, I do hear the fuel pump whine when I turn the ignition on.

Yes, I do get the full display of lights on the dash.

The headlight is bright too when the ignition is on.

Thanks!
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post #14 of 31 Old Jul 25th, 2012, 12:26 am Thread Starter
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Michael....and all,

I video taped the key ignition and posted on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d32oCgkPPU

Hopefully this will be easier for all of us.

Thanks for eeveryones help!

Paul
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post #15 of 31 Old Jul 25th, 2012, 2:57 am
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Have you checked fuses yet?

Bob

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post #16 of 31 Old Jul 25th, 2012, 7:28 am
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Paul,

I watched your video and noticed you only pressed the smooth button once each time (right hand button). That will only lock and unlock the luggage compartments, you can hear them locking and unlocking.
If the imoblizer is active you need to press the right hand (smooth button) twice to turn that off. Once for the luggage and once for the imoblizer.

BTW, it should beep on activation and deactivation.

John Baker

2005 BMW K1200LT
1979 Suzuki GS1000E
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post #17 of 31 Old Jul 25th, 2012, 8:14 am
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

I can tell you mine wonít crank when the battery is down to 12.1v but starts right up with no problems at 12.3v.
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post #18 of 31 Old Jul 25th, 2012, 8:35 am
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbaker15
Paul,

I watched your video and noticed you only pressed the smooth button once each time (right hand button). That will only lock and unlock the luggage compartments, you can hear them locking and unlocking.
If the imoblizer is active you need to press the right hand (smooth button) twice to turn that off. Once for the luggage and once for the imoblizer.

BTW, it should beep on activation and deactivation.

+1

Press the smooth button at least 2x. You should see the turn signals flash once to indicate the immobilizer is disarmed.

2005 BMW K1200LT Blue
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post #19 of 31 Old Jul 25th, 2012, 9:25 pm Thread Starter
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Hi everyone,

To eliminate the possibility of the "automatic activation of immobilizer", I accessed programming mode and disabled it. I received the four beep confirmation. But...the darn bike will still not start.

My ear doctor once told me after being tested, "you cannot hear very good out of your left ear and your right is even worse". So I doubted myself about hearing the fuel pump kick in when the key switch is turned on. I put my left ear to the engine area and listened while turning the key....then I removed the fuel pump fuse and tested again....it sounded the exact same. So, I don't think my fuel pump is working.

Paul
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post #20 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2012, 2:25 am
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Sometimes I remove the wrong fuse when I want to check a fuse. And sometimes the dam things are so small that I have a difficult time visually inspecting them. My multitester does a good job for me as ling as I've got it set to resistance and not voltage.

Bob

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post #21 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2012, 3:13 am
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ordloop
Hi everyone,

To eliminate the possibility of the "automatic activation of immobilizer", I accessed programming mode and disabled it. I received the four beep confirmation. But...the darn bike will still not start.

My ear doctor once told me after being tested, "you cannot hear very good out of your left ear and your right is even worse". So I doubted myself about hearing the fuel pump kick in when the key switch is turned on. I put my left ear to the engine area and listened while turning the key....then I removed the fuel pump fuse and tested again....it sounded the exact same. So, I don't think my fuel pump is working.

Paul
That "fuel-pump whine" most likely is the ABS-servo doing the self-test when you switch on!??

Born to be wild so why not

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post #22 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2012, 3:49 pm
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

I know i'm a newb to bmw and all, and still waiting for my bike to be fixed but could the engine kill switch be turned on?
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post #23 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2012, 5:57 pm
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Just to throw out wild ideas from personal experience - have you checked the sidestand safety switch to see that it is not stuck. Years ago on my Yamaha, I stopped for gas. When I tried to start - nothing. Turned out it was the sidestand switch was gunked up with oil/grease/grit and once we cleaned it, the bike started. There are only a few switches that would not allow you to start - make sure you check those.

Really wild guess - Are you in reverse?

My K12 experience it that you can get the same result if the battery connections are loose as that will give the same result (though mine would crank) - but you said that connections were tight.

_____________

Kim Thomson
Motorcycle Cigar Smoker
05 K1200LT - The Golden Rocket Ship
91 K100RS - The White Stallion
85 K100 Standard - Big Red
79 R65 - "The Bee" is a buzzin' again!
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post #24 of 31 Old Aug 1st, 2012, 5:46 am Thread Starter
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Hi everyone.....

I'm past the point where the issue is something I can fix. I made an appointment at the dealership. I will post here the findings when it is fixed. Thanks again everyone!

Paul
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post #25 of 31 Old Oct 2nd, 2012, 5:36 am
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Paul,

Did you find out anymore on your bike? I just finished replacing the clutch in my 05 K1200LT and I have the exact same problem. All the lights work, but the starter will not turn when I press the start button. Very interested in your results. Thanks.

Bob L.
Eustis, FL
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post #26 of 31 Old Oct 2nd, 2012, 8:02 am
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Did you remove the switch assy from the shaft of the reverser lever? If so you may have damaged one of the switches (very easy to do). They shift control of the starter button from the starter relay to the reverser controller. Or you may have left off a wire to the + terminal of the battery. Is your alarm programmed to have the immobilizer off, if it was then alarm may have defaulted to immobilizer on. Try your FOB and start.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #27 of 31 Old Oct 2nd, 2012, 8:39 am
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Cool Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

The reverser switches were the problem on the last clutch job we did. Broke one of them in re-installing the reverser assembly! Like John says, it's easy to do! In fact, I think next time we may just try not to do as much dis-assembly. When it did not crank we found that we could get it to do so by moving the reverser assembly around sometimes. Ended up replacing the switch assembly and it starts fine now.

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Did you remove the switch assy from the shaft of the reverser lever? If so you may have damaged one of the switches (very easy to do). They shift control of the starter button from the starter relay to the reverser controller. Or you may have left off a wire to the + terminal of the battery. Is your alarm programmed to have the immobilizer off, if it was then alarm may have defaulted to immobilizer on. Try your FOB and start.

John & Marilyn Fisher
'00 K1200LTC "Katie"
'95 Triumph "Tigger"
'12 Triumph 800XC "Tigger II" (RIP)
'12 Triumph 1200 Explorer "Shadow Tigger"
Hillsboro, Oregon

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post #28 of 31 Old Oct 3rd, 2012, 8:05 am
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Problem that I have is that there are no wires going to the reverser switch. When I bought the bike the reverse did not work. I believe the previous owner overrode the swich so the starter would work. Now that I replaced the clutch, I may have missed a wire. If someone could explain the logic and location of the starter / Reverse System, it would be appreciated.
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post #29 of 31 Old Oct 3rd, 2012, 12:12 pm
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

This would be tough as we don't know what he has done. The output of the starter relay goes to the insulated terminal behind the battery. This is where the reverser ties in and the starter motor wire is here as well (these are all outputs). Make sure you have all the + wires on the + battery post, you may just be missing the feed to the starter relay. There should be about four wires on the + terminal on an 05

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #30 of 31 Old Feb 25th, 2013, 12:12 pm Thread Starter
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Sorry Guys! I thought I updated this tread, but I guess I didn't. I tried all the suggestions, but nothing worked. I ended up towing the bike into the local BMW dealer. They spent 8 hours tracking down and fixing cables chewed up by mice. I guess the rear section has a nice place for mice to hang out....right next to the security system (cables).

Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions!

Paul
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post #31 of 31 Old Feb 25th, 2013, 6:37 pm
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Re: No cranking and will not pop...any ideas?

Geez Paul, Need to get you a cat! I usually find bird seed in the air cleaner on bikes I have worked but there have been at least 6 guys this (last) year that had mouse damage. Glad you found it.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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