Man, I am getting tired of this... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 23 Old Jul 19th, 2012, 10:45 am Thread Starter
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Man, I am getting tired of this...

Just got back from a No Cali trip and doing maintenance and dropped the FD fluid and very heavy fuzz and glitter mix on the magnet (much more than normal) and light glitter in the oil. If it wasn't for the P&L aspect of the dealer rebuild I would be very cranky but I am pretty good at pulling the FD now so I will just have to do it and run it back to Seattle for them to look at but you would think it would last more than 14k-18k miles per rebuild. I talked to the Service "Advisor" and he assures me the preload is checked with every rebuild but if that is so then why am I back again 18 months later? I have a spare but I sure don't want the dealer rebuild sitting on a shelf while the 2 years ticks away... oh well, this wasn't meant to be a rant but if i ever make it past the 2 years P&L maybe I should learn to do this myself. Because I spent $800 repairing the first failure that took out the faceplate as well (no used on the market at the time) I am trying hard to get my money back out if it. I sent them pictures that were very clear with the fuzz and glitter but they "can't tell much" by the photos so I pull and deliver to them again. If I was a Sunday rider I wouldn't know about this for 3-4 years but as it is, I put about 12k a year on the big girl.

Oh well, gives me a reason to ride the GS over Stevens Pass which is quite beautiful this time of year. Make lemonade from lemons.

2012 K1600GT

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post #2 of 23 Old Jul 19th, 2012, 12:36 pm
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

What's a P&L? And sorry about your misfortune.

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post #3 of 23 Old Jul 19th, 2012, 12:38 pm
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimokk
What's a P&L? And sorry about your misfortune.
Parts and Labor..my guess

John Baker

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post #4 of 23 Old Jul 19th, 2012, 6:42 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbaker15
Parts and Labor..my guess
Yep... Parts and Labor, the only good thing about this experience.

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post #5 of 23 Old Jul 19th, 2012, 6:56 pm
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

I had the 1st at 37k,2nd at77k, 3rd at 96k and got a good one and still going strong at 180k. I have a good extra on the shelf. Keep the faith. Jim
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post #6 of 23 Old Jul 19th, 2012, 7:26 pm
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Is the drive being rebuilt under warranty? If not, or even if it would be, there is a member (Saddleman) over on this side of the country that can rebuild it right and set the preload where it should be. My 2005 had a FD failure 6 months before I bought it, at 12,500 miles. Dealership in NH did the rebuild. Dave pulled it apart shortly after I bought the LT and checked it out. Everything looked good, but there was one too many shims. Dave left the shim that kept the preload where it should be. He has taken it apart again "just to be sure" all was still ok and it was. Over 37,000 on the LT now and no problems from the FD. If one develops, my best friend, Dave will work his magic on it and all will be well again.

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post #7 of 23 Old Jul 20th, 2012, 8:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Yes, it is under warranty or I'd just pony up and pay for one of our forum experts to do it (which I'll probably do one day anyway). I had a kick pulling it tonight, it was like I knew what I was doing . I'll deal with these things as they come, just needed some forum space to vent a little I guess. I like the dealer I use but ??? Good things come from all things though, I found I was at my utmost limit on the rear brake pads as I was pulling things apart... wasn't due to check them for another 2000 miles so this is a semi-blessing in disguise as I saved a rotor to boot.

Besides, I've bonded with this bike... who could ask for more?

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post #8 of 23 Old Aug 5th, 2012, 10:25 am Thread Starter
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

I picked up my FD from the dealer yesterday and they showed me the failed bearing, prematurely worn right down the center. "how often is the bike overloaded" asks the service manager. "Are you calling me fat" was my reply! "Noooooo." replies the manager. "So you're calling my wife fat then?" "Well, I... we just see a lot of over loaded GS's come in there all the time" (the 2 guys behind him are cracking up). "The bike is built overloaded for cry'in out load, but no... I'm probably 225 lb. with gear and my wife is 130 lb. We carry probably 15 lb worth of clothes and tools spread between 3 cases whether it is a 2 day trip or a 2 week trip. Service manger said "yes, that's not a lot but you are right about the bike, they use the same (strength) bearing on these bikes when they are 250 lbs lighter".

I've never looked at the PN on the K1200GT/S so do they? It would make sense they would because it was the same FD in those years I believe. I always used the correct oil filled to the correct level and never overloaded it so ??? Anyways, I have another 2 years parts and labor unlimited milage so we'll see if we cannot get better this time. Why did this bearing fail like this and am I doing something wrong? I can't see why this would keep happening outside of a poor quality lot of bearings out there that aren't passing the QA/QC checks or are designed for far too light a load.

Maybe I could drop a pound or two in the meantime... :P

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post #9 of 23 Old Aug 5th, 2012, 10:33 am
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

This is just an opinion, and that's all that it is, but I would suggest to the dealer to farm them out to Charlie or Dave. I don't think they know what they are doing.

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post #10 of 23 Old Aug 5th, 2012, 10:42 am
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razmataz
This is just an opinion, and that's all that it is, but I would suggest to the dealer to farm them out to Charlie or Dave. I don't think they know what they are doing.
+1

Between Curtis and Dave, they could probably teach the BMW engineers and assemblers how to do a better job!

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post #11 of 23 Old Aug 5th, 2012, 10:48 am Thread Starter
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by deputy5211
+1

Between Curtis and Dave, they could probably teach the BMW engineers and assemblers how to do a better job!
Yes, I get the shimming verification part (and they did say they reduced it this time after checking), but as for the bearing itself and the way it wore is my puzzlement.

Oh well, I'm off to do a North Cascade run and put 400 miles on it to break it in, thanks for the input!

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post #12 of 23 Old Aug 5th, 2012, 11:45 am
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by david_yancey
(and they did say they reduced it this time after checking)
Based on this statement...I think they over shimmed it last time. Hope you get more than two years out of it.

John Baker

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post #13 of 23 Old Aug 5th, 2012, 12:40 pm
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by david_yancey

(and they did say they reduced it this time
after checking)


Based on this statement...I think they over shimmed it last time. Hope
you get more than two years out of it.
Yup.. Thar she blows... If your final drive has failed and you're going to fix it yourself.. About the smartest thing you can do is take out the smallest shim..

Even if you can't do all the fancy measuring.. I'd bet it's a lot closer with out one small shim...If there's a small one to remove that is...

The failure tells you it's overshimmed... If theyre not overshimmed.. They usually don't just fail.. That bearing is made to support a lot of weight if it's shimmed correctly... I'd bet if you really looked at that bearing you'd find that "center" is actually Just a tiny bit OFF center...That's all it takes..

The difference between right and wrong on these drives is just a couple thousanths of an inch....

Hope it holds this time..

John

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post #14 of 23 Old Aug 5th, 2012, 12:48 pm
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Shimming is there to account for housing variations not bearing variations. So if they reduced the preload this time it WAS over shimed last time. I don't fault the technicians but rather the BMW procedure for shimming.

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post #15 of 23 Old Aug 5th, 2012, 4:46 pm
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

You may want to also give your dealer some food for thought - the FD components, namely the housing bore and the crown gear trunnion will be starting to lose their tolerances due to this repeated assembly/dismantling. That in itself will not help in the overall product you are looking for, a reliable final drive assembly. As others have suggested, the dealer is not on the ball with this, and the money you are "saving" is not foremost in your mind, the continual rework and unrelaible result is detracting from it. My suggestion - pack the drive up and send it to Curtis (Charlie VT)

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post #16 of 23 Old Aug 5th, 2012, 8:15 pm
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by K100Dennis
You may want to also give your dealer some food for thought - the FD components, namely the housing bore and the crown gear trunnion will be starting to lose their tolerances due to this repeated assembly/dismantling. That in itself will not help in the overall product you are looking for, a reliable final drive assembly. As others have suggested, the dealer is not on the ball with this, and the money you are "saving" is not foremost in your mind, the continual rework and unrelaible result is detracting from it. My suggestion - pack the drive up and send it to Curtis (Charlie VT)
If the proper technique is used, there should not be enough wear occurring due to assembly or disassembly to cause any material change in tolerances.

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post #17 of 23 Old Aug 5th, 2012, 10:10 pm
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Anyone who is happy to continue to do the same thing repeatedly and expect a different result, quite likely doesn't understand what he/she is trying to achieve. Given we know that to be true in this instance, that same person quite probably does not understand about good fitting practices, as the 2 go hand in hand, at least that is my humble opinion based on 33 years in the trade. Take the job away from that person and give it to someone who knows what they are doing, after all, regardless of who does the work, the owner of the bike is the owner of the reliability of that bike. If the bike fails in the middle of nowewhere, the problem at that point in time is for the owner and the dealer will not be of any help. Make the problem go away and your frustrations will also be gone.

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post #18 of 23 Old Aug 6th, 2012, 1:52 am Thread Starter
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Of course I'm not happy repeating the procedure, but I do expect a different result and what I am trying to achieve is accountability with the dealer and reliability in the service product they back. I have a decent relationship with the dealership, the service crew, and I even get to talk to the tech when I have questions why they do what they do without people getting pissy. I'm sure after the 2nd failure under warranty they took a deeper look into it, especially since I was armed with enough information from what I have learned over the last 7 years riding the LT, as much self-wrenching as I try to do (and have been moderately successful with), and listening to all that had to be said on this forum to have an intelligent conversation with the dealer tech to recommend additional verification on the preload. I feel that I have less at stake in this than the dealer does... if they blow it and believe in customer service, they risk a dissatisfied client. But even if the final drive never fails again and I do all the right maintenance, I still have little control over many things that could leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere.

At the end of the day, they double-checked the preload, had conversation, reduced the shim, covered it all under warranty, and I felt listened to. Is that a pollyanna attitude? Hell no, I have a good spare FD in case they blow this one again and I have to enlist the services of one of these fine gentlemen here who can rebuild them correctly if it hasn't been done. I think those who think that it remained over-shimmed until this rebuild are correct and we'll see what the results are, and maybe I have helped a BMW service tech become better through this benefitting someone else.

Plus I had a great couple hours installing it and the satisfaction of knowing it was torqued to specs and installed properly.

All I know is my wife and I had a great 400 mile ride today on a newly rebuild FD that was whisper smooth and quiet... with all my past grumbling about this, it was one of those days that make this issue a lot less important. Thanks for your support and the room to vent when I hate having the big girl down while things get sorted out.

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post #19 of 23 Old Aug 6th, 2012, 6:06 am
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by david_yancey
Just got back from a No Cali trip and doing maintenance and dropped the FD fluid and very heavy fuzz and glitter mix on the magnet (much more than normal) and light glitter in the oil. If it wasn't for the P&L aspect of the dealer rebuild I would be very cranky but I am pretty good at pulling the FD now so I will just have to do it and run it back to Seattle for them to look at but you would think it would last more than 14k-18k miles per rebuild. I talked to the Service "Advisor" and he assures me the preload is checked with every rebuild but if that is so then why am I back again 18 months later? I have a spare but I sure don't want the dealer rebuild sitting on a shelf while the 2 years ticks away... oh well, this wasn't meant to be a rant but if i ever make it past the 2 years P&L maybe I should learn to do this myself. Because I spent $800 repairing the first failure that took out the faceplate as well (no used on the market at the time) I am trying hard to get my money back out if it. I sent them pictures that were very clear with the fuzz and glitter but they "can't tell much" by the photos so I pull and deliver to them again. If I was a Sunday rider I wouldn't know about this for 3-4 years but as it is, I put about 12k a year on the big girl.

Oh well, gives me a reason to ride the GS over Stevens Pass which is quite beautiful this time of year. Make lemonade from lemons.

So.....instead of a 4%er are you a 400%er?

Robert

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post #20 of 23 Old Aug 6th, 2012, 6:53 am
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Great prose.

Glad to see they took care of the problem.

Best from Tucson
Bob

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post #21 of 23 Old Aug 6th, 2012, 7:45 pm
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

I personally, like your attitude about the whole deal. While things are under warranty, particularly from a job done by the dealer, it doesn't hurt at all to give them a chance to make things right. That's what warranties are all about, problems happen, take advantage of the warranty til it's proven that they are incapable of actually doing a proper job. (get your money's worth, lol)..then, if necessary take it to someone who can fix it
Too many get bent out of shape, rant and rave, etc, making things even worse. The dealer will do the minimum to get it back together to get them out of their hair, the tech may get more practice on doing it the wrong way, therefore learning nothing. So this might in the long run help the next customer, the dealer and you.

BTW, when we going riding?, lol

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post #22 of 23 Old Aug 6th, 2012, 9:17 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by olddog1946

BTW, when we going riding?, lol
Soon! Ever ridden Pinto Ridge Road?

When is it going to be under 100įf there! :P

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post #23 of 23 Old Aug 6th, 2012, 9:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Man, I am getting tired of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouter-50
So.....instead of a 4%er are you a 400%er?

Robert
I'm an LT rider...

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