'00 K12LT fuel gauge - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 25 Old May 20th, 2012, 3:34 pm Thread Starter
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'00 K12LT fuel gauge

OK guys, I took a 200 mile round trip to Gonzales today. I filled up before I left and the gauge started acting weird. It never registered all the way full then slowly fell to the white area for 50 - 75 miles then slowly came up to 3/4. It then settled at around half for 100 miles then dropped to the white at about 130 miles. I went ahead and filled up again and could only get 3.19 gallons in.The gauge went up to 3/4-7/8. How does the gauge work? Weight of fuel on a sensor, float gauge, calculations taking in account the phase of the moon or what?

Thanks, Robert

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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2000 K1200LT "Latifah"
1994 R1100RSL (wife's)
1981 R80GS
1976 R90S
1965 R80/2 Frankenbike (wife's)
2001 Bunkhouse LX (given to son)
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post #2 of 25 Old May 20th, 2012, 3:38 pm
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

It is a float inside a metal tube. Have you noticed any "whoosh" when you remove the filler cap? A clogged charcoal canister can cause the tank to collapse and dent the sending tube.

John
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post #3 of 25 Old May 20th, 2012, 3:47 pm Thread Starter
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
It is a float inside a metal tube. Have you noticed any "whoosh" when you remove the filler cap? A clogged charcoal canister can cause the tank to collapse and dent the sending tube.
No, no whoosh. Where is the tank vented? The cap? How do I test?

Thanks, Robert.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)


2000 K1200LT "Latifah"
1994 R1100RSL (wife's)
1981 R80GS
1976 R90S
1965 R80/2 Frankenbike (wife's)
2001 Bunkhouse LX (given to son)
2011 Bunkhouse Queen

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post #4 of 25 Old May 20th, 2012, 4:00 pm
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Do a search for "Canisterectomy" that will tell you how to deal with the charcoal canister that John mentioned. If there is no woosh then the canister isn't clogged. However you could still have a bent fill tube, just caused by something else. Sometimes when filling the tank the filler nozzle if inserted far enough can bent the filler tube if you apply downward pressure while filling the tank.

John Baker

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post #5 of 25 Old May 20th, 2012, 4:18 pm Thread Starter
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbaker15
Do a search for "Canisterectomy" that will tell you how to deal with the charcoal canister that John mentioned. If there is no woosh then the canister isn't clogged. However you could still have a bent fill tube, just caused by something else. Sometimes when filling the tank the filler nozzle if inserted far enough can bent the filler tube if you apply downward pressure while filling the tank.
Thanks, I will do that. The EPA does not have all the answers!
Robert

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)


2000 K1200LT "Latifah"
1994 R1100RSL (wife's)
1981 R80GS
1976 R90S
1965 R80/2 Frankenbike (wife's)
2001 Bunkhouse LX (given to son)
2011 Bunkhouse Queen

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post #6 of 25 Old May 20th, 2012, 4:34 pm
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouter-50
Thanks, I will do that. The EPA does not have all the answers!
Robert
Robert also try a search for "bent filler" or something like that and you will find threads that talk about the filler being bent and how to fix it. You wil need to take the tupperware off and get the gage out of the tank to repair. Folks have done the repair if bent or you can buy a new one.

Good luck post if you need more direction.

John Baker

2005 BMW K1200LT
1979 Suzuki GS1000E
1978 Honda CB350
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post #7 of 25 Old May 20th, 2012, 6:53 pm
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Robert,
I experienced the same issue on my last trip. The gauge would slowly drop to the white area, then after a few miles slowly creep back to a more sensible reading. I knew from my trip odo that there was still plenty of fuel so I just kept rolling. It repeated this behavior from time to time for the rest of the trip home. The problem on my bike turned out to be a bit of corrosion in the fuel gauge connector at the tank. This "system" is heavily damped in order to prevent the gauge needle from jumping around with the float movement (which moves very freely). Consequently, the needle will move very slowly as the resistance in the circuit changes. The sender is at its highest resistance when the tank is empty and conversely is at its lowest resistance when the tank is full. The corrosion adds resistance to the circuit, plus it can create an intermittent connection. I believe what I saw (and you are seeing) is the gauge slowly responding the this intermittent connection while riding plus some small additional resistance which prevents the gauge from going full scale when the tank was full. The fix was simple: clean the connector contacts, add a few blobs of di-electric grease, replace all the tupperware then get back to riding

Hope this helps,
Les Willey
00 K1200LT
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post #8 of 25 Old May 20th, 2012, 7:18 pm
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Thumbs up Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

must be something in the airwaves, I'm having the exact same problems with my fuel gauge. The first time this happened I actually thought I lost fuel somewhere! Thanks for the tip. ED
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post #9 of 25 Old May 21st, 2012, 5:50 am Thread Starter
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by LGW
Robert,
I experienced the same issue on my last trip. The gauge would slowly drop to the white area, then after a few miles slowly creep back to a more sensible reading. I knew from my trip odo that there was still plenty of fuel so I just kept rolling. It repeated this behavior from time to time for the rest of the trip home. The problem on my bike turned out to be a bit of corrosion in the fuel gauge connector at the tank. This "system" is heavily damped in order to prevent the gauge needle from jumping around with the float movement (which moves very freely). Consequently, the needle will move very slowly as the resistance in the circuit changes. The sender is at its highest resistance when the tank is empty and conversely is at its lowest resistance when the tank is full. The corrosion adds resistance to the circuit, plus it can create an intermittent connection. I believe what I saw (and you are seeing) is the gauge slowly responding the this intermittent connection while riding plus some small additional resistance which prevents the gauge from going full scale when the tank was full. The fix was simple: clean the connector contacts, add a few blobs of di-electric grease, replace all the tupperware then get back to riding

Hope this helps,
Les Willey
00 K1200LT
Thanks, Les. I guess I will be asking for tupperware help at the tech day Saturday. Your explanation makes good sense to me. I guess the float tube could be dented also, will let you know. Robert

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)


2000 K1200LT "Latifah"
1994 R1100RSL (wife's)
1981 R80GS
1976 R90S
1965 R80/2 Frankenbike (wife's)
2001 Bunkhouse LX (given to son)
2011 Bunkhouse Queen

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post #10 of 25 Old May 21st, 2012, 6:43 am
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

getting the side panels off are an easy matter that takes all of 5-8 minutes per panel. Remove the mirror (it just pops off) take out the three screws holding the air deflector and remove it. Pull the screw holding the panel. remove the turn signal and take out the two screws underneath. Take the tip over bar covers off and remove the screws under it holding the side panel. open the oddments box and take out the screws holding the cover that goes around the release button. Lift the seat to make room. Take out the screws holding the side panel. remove the screw that is under the seat where the panels meet. Take out any remaining screw I forgot to mention and pull the lock pin out of the rubber grommet at the back of the panel. now lift off the panel. There is hook tab that goes into a slot on the radio bat wing, try not to break it off getting too overzealous.
If someone elses two hands can do it, yours will too. Dont let that big girl intimidate you! You have to show her who's boss or she will take advantage of you (financially)

I think the canisterectomy and fuel tube may have been the first thing I fixed on my 2000.

2000 K1200LT-C "Tsukune"
2013 Honda NC700X "Moka"

Kirk Johnson

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post #11 of 25 Old May 21st, 2012, 10:05 am Thread Starter
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14wntr
getting the side panels off are an easy matter that takes all of 5-8 minutes per panel. Remove the mirror (it just pops off) take out the three screws holding the air deflector and remove it. Pull the screw holding the panel. remove the turn signal and take out the two screws underneath. Take the tip over bar covers off and remove the screws under it holding the side panel. open the oddments box and take out the screws holding the cover that goes around the release button. Lift the seat to make room. Take out the screws holding the side panel. remove the screw that is under the seat where the panels meet. Take out any remaining screw I forgot to mention and pull the lock pin out of the rubber grommet at the back of the panel. now lift off the panel. There is hook tab that goes into a slot on the radio bat wing, try not to break it off getting too overzealous.
If someone elses two hands can do it, yours will too. Dont let that big girl intimidate you! You have to show her who's boss or she will take advantage of you (financially)

I think the canisterectomy and fuel tube may have been the first thing I fixed on my 2000.

Thanks, I will print this and take it with me to the tech day.

Robert

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)


2000 K1200LT "Latifah"
1994 R1100RSL (wife's)
1981 R80GS
1976 R90S
1965 R80/2 Frankenbike (wife's)
2001 Bunkhouse LX (given to son)
2011 Bunkhouse Queen

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post #12 of 25 Old May 25th, 2012, 9:23 am
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14wntr
getting the side panels off are an easy matter that takes all of 5-8 minutes per panel. Remove the mirror (it just pops off) take out the three screws holding the air deflector and remove it. Pull the screw holding the panel. remove the turn signal and take out the two screws underneath. Take the tip over bar covers off and remove the screws under it holding the side panel. open the oddments box and take out the screws holding the cover that goes around the release button. Lift the seat to make room. Take out the screws holding the side panel. remove the screw that is under the seat where the panels meet. Take out any remaining screw I forgot to mention and pull the lock pin out of the rubber grommet at the back of the panel. now lift off the panel. There is hook tab that goes into a slot on the radio bat wing, try not to break it off getting too overzealous. ...
I have the same problem - a bent sending tube, resulting from overfilling the gas tank which caused a clogged canister which then drew a vacuum on the tank, etc., etc.

After doing the above steps, what is required to remove the sending tube (or whatever it's called)? I have read here how to fix the dented tube but don't know how to remove it. Do I need to remove the gas tank? (I don't think so.) Do I need to drain the gas tank? (Again, I don't think so but I'm looking for details). Thanks.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #13 of 25 Old May 25th, 2012, 9:59 am
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Just remove the bolts holding it in, unplug it and lift it out. Once its out, dismantle it and drive some gradually larger sockets through it to get it back in shape. It really isnt hard to do but just be carful not to break it. YOU CAN DO IT! I have faith!

2000 K1200LT-C "Tsukune"
2013 Honda NC700X "Moka"

Kirk Johnson

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post #14 of 25 Old May 25th, 2012, 10:08 am
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14wntr
Just remove the bolts holding it in, unplug it and lift it out. Once its out, dismantle it and drive some gradually larger sockets through it to get it back in shape. It really isnt hard to do but just be carful not to break it. YOU CAN DO IT! I have faith!
Sounds easy enough, and I've seen some photos on this site that show it after its removal. I take it the unit is only visible after removing the right side fairing?

I have Sears' complete socket set so I'm sure I've got the necessary items on hand to fix the dent(s). Maybe there is a specific size of plastic pipe that could be used to straighten the the tube after it's removed. I'll look, once I'm into it.

Thanks.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #15 of 25 Old May 25th, 2012, 11:35 am
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Wink Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Of course you would want to make sure that you do not have a topped off tank prior to removing the float assembly! Just a gentle reminder.

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14wntr
Just remove the bolts holding it in, unplug it and lift it out. Once its out, dismantle it and drive some gradually larger sockets through it to get it back in shape. It really isnt hard to do but just be carful not to break it. YOU CAN DO IT! I have faith!

John & Marilyn Fisher
'00 K1200LTC "Katie"
'95 Triumph "Tigger"
'12 Triumph 800XC "Tigger II" (RIP)
'12 Triumph 1200 Explorer "Shadow Tigger"
Hillsboro, Oregon

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post #16 of 25 Old May 25th, 2012, 6:58 pm
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaFish
Of course you would want to make sure that you do not have a topped off tank prior to removing the float assembly! Just a gentle reminder.

John
And if one does not heed that gentle reminder, a wetter reminder will soon follow.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

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post #17 of 25 Old May 31st, 2012, 9:17 am
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Robert,

Have you managed to get your fuel gauge issue reslolved?

Les Willey
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post #18 of 25 Old May 31st, 2012, 11:46 am Thread Starter
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by LGW
Robert,

Have you managed to get your fuel gauge issue reslolved?

Les Willey
Not yet. I don't think corrosion on the connector is an issue. at least cleaning it did not fix it. I will pull the sensor when I change the fuel filter this weekend. And I will get to try out my new Oetiker clamp pliers.

Robert

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)


2000 K1200LT "Latifah"
1994 R1100RSL (wife's)
1981 R80GS
1976 R90S
1965 R80/2 Frankenbike (wife's)
2001 Bunkhouse LX (given to son)
2011 Bunkhouse Queen

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post #19 of 25 Old May 31st, 2012, 10:22 pm
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Sorry to hear your problem wasn't associated with the connector (an easy fix). It will be interesting to learn what your final solution is. Hang in there!

Les
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post #20 of 25 Old Jun 1st, 2012, 5:07 am Thread Starter
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by LGW
Sorry to hear your problem wasn't associated with the connector (an easy fix). It will be interesting to learn what your final solution is. Hang in there!

Les
Thanks, Les. I'll keep you posted.

Robert.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)


2000 K1200LT "Latifah"
1994 R1100RSL (wife's)
1981 R80GS
1976 R90S
1965 R80/2 Frankenbike (wife's)
2001 Bunkhouse LX (given to son)
2011 Bunkhouse Queen

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post #21 of 25 Old Jun 3rd, 2012, 9:57 am
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14wntr
Just remove the bolts holding it in, unplug it and lift it out. Once its out, dismantle it and drive some gradually larger sockets through it to get it back in shape. It really isnt hard to do but just be careful not to break it. YOU CAN DO IT! I have faith!
How do you get the metal collar to clear the stingray? I'm stuck.

I just sent this PM to John Zeiler, but I'll post it here in hopes of getting a wider audience (read: "fast response" )

Well, itís Sunday morning and I have everything off the LT but I canít get the fuel sending tube (if that is the correct term) out. It seems like I have to remove the stingray first Ė the round metal collar on the top of the tube impacts the right side of the stingray, preventing its removal. I have removed some of the screws holding the string ray and other upper dashboard-area pieces but itís not going to work.

Did I miss something? I found instructions for removing the right upper fairing earlier in this thread but it does not mention removing anything else.

If you are able to call me it would let me wrap this project up this morning. If not, I'll just check back for your reply. I do get email notifications on my phone, so I will know when you reply to this

Appreciate it!

Howard Schisler
(740) 974-3524 cell
(740) 536-7338 home

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #22 of 25 Old Jun 3rd, 2012, 12:06 pm
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Success! Removed the tube, disassembled it, gently pushed a series of sockets through the tube, reassembled, reinstalled, and tested it. It's now reading 1/8 full - the first time it's read below 1/2 full in 2 full months.

Thanks to John Zeiler/jzeiler for a quick-reply phone call (in reply to my PM plea for help).
Thanks to Kirk J/14wntr (a previous post in this thread) for his suggestions, instructions on what had to be removed to get to the tube, and a phone call.
Thanks also to a couple of other posts in this thread. I did not remove the spring at the bottom of the tube. Instead, I used a set of long, slim needle nose pliers to reach through the spring, flatten the brass lock washer and then remove the nut at the bottom of the tube.

Some comments for those who will need to do this sometime in the future:
1. Both upper fairing pieces have to be removed, along with the stingray. I tried to do this job by removing just the right upper fairing; no good - you need more clearance to remove the tube and its metal collar. It seems obvious now, but it wasn't earlier!
2. The repaired metal tube does not have to be perfectly smooth. Mine still has some dimples in it, but after repairing it I ran the float up and down several times. There is plenty of clearance between the float and the inside walls of the tube.
3. If I had a large metal carpenter's square I would have used that, as a previous post suggested. I used a piece of schedule 40 pipe, a shovel handle, and several sockets to achieve the desired result.
4. Before reassembling the tupperware this would be a good time to clean the radiators and the "ducts" that exhaust hot air out the gills.
5. John Fisher/AlaskaFish made an indirect reference to the state of the gas tank when you do this job. I didn't understand what he was referring to until I got into this little job. The idea is to have the tank less than full; if it's near-full or more, a good quantity of gasoline can run out of the top of the tank when you remove the tube and its collar. This is because the tube sits at a lower level than the fill cap. I can imagine a scenario where this job is done with a full tank, lots of gas spills out when the tube is removed, the gas runs across the floor and into a heat source. That would not be a good day.

Thanks guys!

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #23 of 25 Old Jun 3rd, 2012, 2:36 pm
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Great news, Howard!

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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If you want to be happy for a day, drink.
If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

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post #24 of 25 Old Jun 4th, 2012, 10:51 am
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Howard,

Sorry to hear it was such an involved repair, but equally glad to hear you found a definitive problem and got it resolved. Now it's time to ride!

Les Willey
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post #25 of 25 Old Jun 4th, 2012, 4:52 pm
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Re: '00 K12LT fuel gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by LGW
Howard,

Sorry to hear it was such an involved repair, but equally glad to hear you found a definitive problem and got it resolved. Now it's time to ride!

Les Willey
Well, I would only say it was "involved" because I didn't know what to expect. The time I spent trying to remove the tube with the left upper fairing in place equaled the time it took to actually remove the left upper fairing, if you see what I mean.

With both sides off I took that opportunity to reroute a GPS cable up into the glove box, so that was a good thing right there.

Thanks.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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