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post #1 of 24 Old May 18th, 2012, 6:30 pm Thread Starter
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Tankslappin(!)

I went to lower my modular helmet, the street behind me was empty, and I'm doing about 30 or so, so I figure a quick 'let go, pull down with one hand while holding helmet with the other' maneuver wouldn't be a problem.

That's when the combination of no hands, plus low gear deceleration caused the handlebars to start wobbling. A quick grab got things under control, and it WAS an unusual situation...but, uh...I thought the steering damper was supposed to prevent that?

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post #2 of 24 Old May 18th, 2012, 6:47 pm
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Is the damper fully functioning? It is supposed to stop it from uncontrollability...

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post #3 of 24 Old May 18th, 2012, 7:11 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochinosucio
Is the damper fully functioning? It is supposed to stop it from uncontrollability...
It's functioning, lord only knows it's FULLY functioning.

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post #4 of 24 Old May 18th, 2012, 9:03 pm
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Do a search...there are a lot of posts on here about that symptom. Some think it's related to tires and some just think it's a peculiarity of the LT, maybe related to front fork rake, weight, etc. I know one thing...I did the same thing you did one time and never did it again.

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post #5 of 24 Old May 18th, 2012, 9:21 pm
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Most of us that have been through it have found that the right set of new tyres will solve the problem, at least until they have worn appreciably. The Metz seemed to have a manufacturing issue for a while.
An old clip of the problem... K1200LT steering wobble

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post #6 of 24 Old May 18th, 2012, 10:30 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
Most of us that have been through it have found that the right set of new tyres will solve the problem, at least until they have worn appreciably. The Metz seemed to have a manufacturing issue for a while.
An old clip of the problem... K1200LT steering wobble
There seems to be an unusual amount of play in the bushings that mount the dampener, but without a second example, it's hard to say. The metzler up front isn't that old (3000 miles or so)

But like above, I'm not going to try it again!

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post #7 of 24 Old May 18th, 2012, 11:38 pm
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

My opinion:
You likely have a stretched bead on the front tire. Without going into a long explanation, that's likely the problem and I know of no way to confirm that it's stretched. While it's an exaggerated example, try rolling a tapered rubber cork in a straight line on a smooth floor to see the problem a stretched bead causes. The tire tries to turn and then the gyroscopic forces correct it into a straight line. Turn, correct, repeat, wobble, tank slap.


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post #8 of 24 Old May 19th, 2012, 6:17 am
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

That is a common thing. The right set of circumstances during slow deceleration and it will wobble. I never felt it wobble even with only one hand on bars,so moral of the story, keep at least one hand on at all times and don't worry about it.
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post #9 of 24 Old May 19th, 2012, 6:53 am
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled
There seems to be an unusual amount of play in the bushings that mount the dampener, but without a second example, it's hard to say. The metzler up front isn't that old (3000 miles or so)

But like above, I'm not going to try it again!
Test the damper with front wheel off the ground. Move bars side to side slowly, then fast. If it is working you will feel a difference.

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post #10 of 24 Old May 19th, 2012, 8:13 am Thread Starter
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Test the damper with front wheel off the ground. Move bars side to side slowly, then fast. If it is working you will feel a difference.
I feel a difference...but I ALSO notice a lot of play in the dampener with little movement, like bushings might be worn. It's not a _violent_ shake (it's identical to the video a few links up from here) and might correspond to the play in bushings.

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post #11 of 24 Old May 19th, 2012, 8:35 am
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

You will get some play at the damper (normal), however, it should REALLY slow down rapid movement changes, while allowing free, unrestricted slower movements.

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post #12 of 24 Old May 19th, 2012, 10:50 am
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Explained here in detail - it can happen to any motorcycle:

All you've got to do is stop making so many left turns. Really.

Motorcycle Tire Wear


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post #13 of 24 Old May 19th, 2012, 10:57 am
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
Explained here in detail - it can happen to any motorcycle:

All you've got to do is stop making so many left turns. Really.

Motorcycle Tire Wear
OUTSTANDING PRIVATE PYLE!

"You can tell more about a person by what he says about others than you can by what others say about him."
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Remember folks, street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph. ~Jim Samuels




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1986 Honda Interceptor Black (Weezy)
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post #14 of 24 Old May 19th, 2012, 3:07 pm
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Its telling you that it's time for a new front tire.

My front is showing a lot of wear, would not surprise me much if mine did that.

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post #15 of 24 Old May 19th, 2012, 5:37 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunny
Its telling you that it's time for a new front tire.

My front is showing a lot of wear, would not surprise me much if mine did that.
I hope not...they still have the rubber nurples on them!

IMG_1578 by Matey-O, on Flickr

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post #16 of 24 Old May 19th, 2012, 9:56 pm
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

That tire shows classic front left tire "scalloping/scuffing". The mold nipples have NOTHING to do with it.





If you don't want to spend the time reading the article I mentioned...

Scalloping is dramatically increased by consistent under inflation. You need to check your tires EVERY time you ride and 42/48 psi is the consensus inflation mark - over the years - to avoid premature wear.

The LT is a very heavy bike, and if you brake while cornering you will cut the life of the tire by 50%. In my experience, with the exception of riders specifically trained for road racing, 99% of riders brake into corners.

Eventually - even if you take excellent care of your tires - scalloping, the attendant noise and loss of traction will occur.

Entropy rules.


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Last edited by RonKMiller; May 19th, 2012 at 10:16 pm.
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post #17 of 24 Old May 19th, 2012, 10:06 pm
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochinosucio
OUTSTANDING PRIVATE PYLE!
Thanks Gunnery Sargent Carter!


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post #18 of 24 Old May 19th, 2012, 10:21 pm
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Where's Uncle Mark when you need him?

(probably out riding...)


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post #19 of 24 Old May 19th, 2012, 11:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
That tire shows classic front left tire "scalloping/scuffing". The mold nipples have NOTHING to do with it.

Scalloping is dramatically increased by consistent under inflation. You need to check your tires EVERY time you ride and 42/48 psi is the consensus inflation mark - over the years - to avoid premature wear.

Eventually - even if you take excellent care of your tires - scalloping, the attendant noise and loss of traction will occur.

Entropy rules.
Man. NOBODY has a sence of humor around here. I read the article. Recognized the symptoms as the Battleax I took off looked like it had a waffleprint and howled like a banshee.

I've been pretty good at keeping on top of the tire pressure and most likely brake in corners. Honestly, the tread profile looks good, but that's to rather ignorant eyes.

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post #20 of 24 Old May 20th, 2012, 12:36 am
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
with the exception of riders specifically trained for road racing,[/i][/b] 99% of riders brake into corners.Eventually - even if you take excellent care of your tires - scalloping, the attendant noise and loss of traction will occur.

Entropy rules.
This statistic should also include Police Motor Operators, who are trained to to break into turns,

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post #21 of 24 Old May 20th, 2012, 12:51 am
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Mike, a few years back (when I made the video) I'd already worked through 2 sets of tyres since bike was new with no issues, then all of a sudden I went through the next 2 new sets of ME880's and on each set I had the "wobble" from day 1... it was first thing I tested as I rode out of the dealer. This on brand new tyres! I could feel it as I leaned into a faster sweeping corner... I didn't need to take my hands off the bars to know that something wasn't right.
Dealer couldn't seem to find a problem with it. I was just about tearing my hair out.
Eventually when I needed another new set... the wobble was gone..!!!!!!
Nothing else on the bike changed made a difference, even a new damper the dealer installed didn't help.

Believe that it was the tyres all along, either fitted badly (stretched bead), or out of round from factory.....
Scalloping on the tyres after a lot of wear can cause it also, as described above.

I've got 30,000km on the front Metz at the moment (it needs changing out) but its worn so well that I can let go of the bars and it won't wobble....
So, hang onto the bars and ride it out... and hope your next new front is a good one!

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post #22 of 24 Old May 20th, 2012, 11:34 am
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deputy5211
This statistic should also include Police Motor Operators, who are trained to to break into turns,
I still catch myself braking into turns all the time, it's a really bad habit that's hard to break. I really need to break down and spend more time practicing proper technique before I break something. Why, if I crashed hard and ended up being disabled I could end up flat broke!

...and some people don't think I have a sense of humor.

I took Keith Code's Superbike school in California (for two days and some serious money) and the one thing he continually drilled into our heads was that not only were you slower by doing this, you also had a much greater chance of high siding. It also kills tires. The first day of class we weren't allowed to use our brakes at all.

They did touch briefly on trail braking and how effective it was for some suspensions during flat out racing - but that it was an advanced technique and took a long time to master.

I'm surprised that braking while cornering is a part of any formal training curriculum. Braking before the turn, certainly.


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post #23 of 24 Old May 20th, 2012, 11:40 am Thread Starter
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

From SOLO2, in car's I've always bled off speed, then set up for the turn, but on a motorcycle, I've occasionally found myself carrying too much speed for the lean angle. Clearly, more training is necessary.

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post #24 of 24 Old May 20th, 2012, 1:43 pm
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Re: Tankslappin(!)

I wouldn't let go of my handle bars or any other bike I've rode doing 30 mph on a decel. I'd say that's a fairly normal deal. There may be some bikes that would be okay on but I still don't think its a good ideal.
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