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post #1 of 23 Old May 11th, 2012, 9:11 am Thread Starter
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Baffled

Oh K1200LT Gurus..... Your guidance please.
Replaced fuel filter, air filter and plugs Wednesday. Road bike 75 miles that afternoon, all was perfect. Left with bike at 5 AM yesterday, road 75 miles, parked bike and again all was perfect. Ten hours later, tried to start bike. It spit and sputtered, almost started, then nothing. Just turns over but won't fire.

My first thought was charcoal canister. Did the bypass on it. Did it under the seat as I was not at my home. (cut line under seat running down right side of bike and vented down. Cut line in left side under seat and plugged.) Crossed my fingers, hit the starter.... And........ NOTHING. Still won't start. Not even a sputter. And yes, it does have gas in the tank.

I await your infinite wisdome.

2000 K1200LT (Does LT really stand for Light TRuck?)
2001 R1100S Bumble Bee
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post #2 of 23 Old May 11th, 2012, 9:15 am
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Re: Baffled

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtfoto
Oh K1200LT Gurus..... Your guidance please.
Replaced fuel filter, air filter and plugs Wednesday. Road bike 75 miles that afternoon, all was perfect. Left with bike at 5 AM yesterday, road 75 miles, parked bike and again all was perfect. Ten hours later, tried to start bike. It spit and sputtered, almost started, then nothing. Just turns over but won't fire.

My first thought was charcoal canister. Did the bypass on it. Did it under the seat as I was not at my home. (cut line under seat running down right side of bike and vented down. Cut line in left side under seat and plugged.) Crossed my fingers, hit the starter.... And........ NOTHING. Still won't start. Not even a sputter. And yes, it does have gas in the tank.

I await your infinite wisdome.
Maybe the hose came off the fuel filter in the tank. Open the tank, turn key on,
listen/look for fuel movement/spray.
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post #3 of 23 Old May 11th, 2012, 9:17 am
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Re: Baffled

Since the engine ran for 150 miles, but now won't, I don't believe the canister would be to blame. Do you have quick disconnects on the fuel lines? Male and female for the pressure and return lines should be facing opposite directions so you can't get them connected wrong. I doubt this is the problem either, but just covering everything. If you have QDs are they plastic? The male ends of the plastic QDs are susceptible to breakage when inserted into the female ends and not perfectly aligned. Even if one did not break, maybe it didn't click completely into place. The check valve would prevent fuel from leaking if this is the case. A broken male end would probably leave a nice puddle on the ground.

Hope this helps. It may be a place to start. I'm sure others will be along with other suggestions.

Lee
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post #4 of 23 Old May 11th, 2012, 9:25 am
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Re: Baffled

I had one of those damn disconnects back out about 1/8 of an inch and shut off the fuel flow.. I sat on the side of the road for two hours trying to figure out what was going on until I took a close look and DOH !!!!

Make sure they're fully connected...

Turn key on.. Listen for fuel pump to run...Open tank look for fuel movement...
If you can find a can of starting ether.. You can shoot a little of that into the air intake... If it runs for a couple seconds then your issue is fuel...

Usually is...

John

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post #5 of 23 Old May 11th, 2012, 10:12 am
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Re: Baffled

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMartin
Maybe the hose came off the fuel filter in the tank. Open the tank, turn key on,
listen/look for fuel movement/spray.
+1

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post #6 of 23 Old May 11th, 2012, 12:11 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Baffled

OK, so still baffled. Looked in tank while turning over. I see no spray of bubbles. I see movement, but that very well could be from the starter vibrating the bike. I can't physically hear the fuel pump either.

I took off the lower tupperware on the right side just to be sure wire to fuel pump hadn't come loose. They were fine. But....... I reached up under the front cowl to the air intake and sprayed ether while turning it over. And, much to my surprise, still nothing. I assumed if it were a fuel problem, it would have at least hit a time or two with the ether, but nothing.

So, oh Gods of the LT, what do you command?

2000 K1200LT (Does LT really stand for Light TRuck?)
2001 R1100S Bumble Bee
'75 Maico 400
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post #7 of 23 Old May 11th, 2012, 12:15 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Baffled

OK, answering that myself. I'll take everything back apart and check the line on the fuel filter. Any other suggestions while it's down AGAIN?

2000 K1200LT (Does LT really stand for Light TRuck?)
2001 R1100S Bumble Bee
'75 Maico 400
'78 Maico 250
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post #8 of 23 Old May 11th, 2012, 12:25 pm
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Re: Baffled

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtfoto
OK, answering that myself. I'll take everything back apart and check the line on the fuel filter. Any other suggestions while it's down AGAIN?
You should hear the fuel pump.
How sure are you that it has gas? Don't trust guage.
Fuel pump fuse?
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post #9 of 23 Old May 11th, 2012, 12:41 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Baffled

Yes, it has fuel. Getting ready to check the fuses now. Anybody know off hand which fuse it is?

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post #10 of 23 Old May 11th, 2012, 12:54 pm
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Re: Baffled

The time this happened to me the connections inside the tank to the filter had come off. Put it back together with stainless steel hose clamps.
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post #11 of 23 Old May 11th, 2012, 2:45 pm
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Re: Baffled

Quote:
Originally Posted by parishollow
The time this happened to me the connections inside the tank to the filter had come off. Put it back together with stainless steel hose clamps.
Make sure you use stainless steel fuel line clamps. You don't want to use the ones with the eliptical holes and the screw that works like a helical gear. They will ruin the fuel line, chewing it up and causing leaks.

Lee
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post #12 of 23 Old May 13th, 2012, 11:19 am
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Re: Baffled

so, what was it? Inquirering minds what to know!

Eddee P
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post #13 of 23 Old May 13th, 2012, 11:59 am
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Re: Baffled

Was it your QDs?

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post #14 of 23 Old May 21st, 2012, 10:10 am Thread Starter
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Re: Baffled

OK, so last I posted it still wouldn't start. Before taking all the plastic off, I grabbed one of the old Bosch plugs (I replaced the plugs while apart with NGK DCPR 7E that Beemer Boneyard sent with a 24K service kit) and hooked it up to a plug wire just to be certain I had spark. Yep, lots of it. So that being said, I resigned to the fact that one of the fuel lines came off in the tank even though I knew there was a very very slim chance that could have happened. While not "Joe Mechanic," I am fairly proficient with a wrench on a bike and know how to attach fuel lines.

I finally got time to tear the plastic off, pull the tank, and pop out the fuel pump. Guess what? BOTH of the lines where right where they were suppose to be, tight and intact. I even hooked the pump up to the bike to be sure she was pumping, and yep, perfect. Put the tank back on and hit the starter.....still not a thing, so now I'm REALLY scratching my head.

Went to the fridge, grabbed a beer and sat and stared at the LT for a bit. Grabbed another beer and thought some more. "I checked the spark, and it was fine. The fuel pump is pumping. WTF." (Yes, talking to myself after two beers.)

Being the somewhat logical person that I am, I decided to work backwards to see if we could get to the bottom of this. With the tank back in place, and lines hooked up, the next backwards step was to put the old Bosch plugs back in. I know, I know, thats stupid. You had spark, so of course the NGK plugs wouldn't be the issue, but working back, thats then next step.

Pulled all 4 plugs. Put the Bosch back in. Pushed the starter. (Ready for this????) It started right up. Seriously. Just to be sure I hadn't drank A LOT more beer than I thought I had, I put the damn NGK's back in, and again it would not start. Put the old Bosch in, and poof, purred like a kitten.

Go figure...... (I look forward to your thoughts oh masters of the LT)

2000 K1200LT (Does LT really stand for Light TRuck?)
2001 R1100S Bumble Bee
'75 Maico 400
'78 Maico 250
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post #15 of 23 Old May 21st, 2012, 11:08 am
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Re: Baffled

I guess your bike doesn't like NGK plugs. I changed mine with boneyard-supplied NGKs this past Saturday without any problems.

Kimo


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post #16 of 23 Old May 21st, 2012, 4:47 pm
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Re: Baffled

Do the tips of the plugs that go into the plug wires look the same on both the NGK & Bosch plugs & was the gap set on the NGK plugs ?.

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post #17 of 23 Old May 21st, 2012, 6:21 pm
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Re: Baffled

I'm betting the NGK plugs don't have the ends on them to make contact with the wire. I had to rob some to install NGKs into my bike.................

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post #18 of 23 Old May 21st, 2012, 8:36 pm
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Re: Baffled

Something wrong with those spark plugs.
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post #19 of 23 Old May 21st, 2012, 9:05 pm
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Re: Baffled

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattler50
I'm betting the NGK plugs don't have the ends on them to make contact with the wire. I had to rob some to install NGKs into my bike.................
All the NGK plugs that crossed over in the chart that I have looked at did not come with the screw on tips to contact the plug wires.

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post #20 of 23 Old May 22nd, 2012, 1:57 am
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Lightbulb Re: Baffled

While he said the spark plugs were changed out, he said it did run okay initially for a 100 miles or so?

Nobody has mentioned the possibility of the engine flooding. He said he tried ether, and that didn't work, so that's sure indication it wasn't a fuel supply problem. The fact ether didn't work should have immediately cued him to look at the ignition. Remember, all you need is air, fuel, and spark to get a gasoline engine to fire off (in simplest terms).

the idea that another set of spark plugs fired it off gives credence to fouled/flooded spark plugs, but not necessarily the definitive answer. If the plugs are simply fouled, he will want to figure out why. if the cylinders flooded (w/ fuel), then that has to be troubleshot. another possibility for spark plugs is the correct heat range, though it would most likely have to be vastly different from the last set of plugs.

Also, look to see if the ceramic/porcelain was possibly cracked on any of the plugs during install. A plug could be cracked enough to allow for the spark to short to engine before reaching the tip. I don't know how few cylinders the LT will run on with one or two dead, but a cracked spark plug might wreak havoc.

Jeff
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post #21 of 23 Old May 22nd, 2012, 8:51 am Thread Starter
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Re: Baffled

So here's where we stand.....

If you read my other post of "A new twist to baffled" you will see that after putting old plugs back in, bike starts, and runs good. But now it has a lot of raw fuel coming out the exhaust. I have not had time to get her off the trailer she's tied down to, to take her up the road, hard, and see if I can "blow it out." And, I'm not gonna sit with it idling on the trailer and have it go "poof."

Here's my suspicion......

It ran for 100 miles perfectly. It was fueled up before the 100 mile run and a little over full. It was then parked in the sun for 7 hours. When I tried to start it after sitting for the 7 hours, it sputtered, started, then died.

I'm guessing the canister had issues from the overflow, which caused the sputter etc. But, when it died, I flooded it, fouling the new plugs. The more I tried to start it, thinking it was a canister problem or line off the fuel pump issue, the more fuel I dumped into her.

After tearing down, checking fuel lines, I put the old plugs back in, but did turn it over several times, for several seconds which in theory blew enough fuel out of the jugs to let the old plugs fire her up. The remaining fuel simply hasn't had time to get flushed out yet.

Thats probably an optimistic hypothesis. It also could be, as stated, a more intricate issue with O2 sensor, electronic fuel delivery, or something along those lines, which I cannot test for.

So, when I find a sucker, i mean friend, to help me get her off the trailer I will run it up the road and hope.

The saga to be continued......

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2001 R1100S Bumble Bee
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post #22 of 23 Old May 22nd, 2012, 11:03 am
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Re: Baffled

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtfoto
So here's where we stand.....
After tearing down, checking fuel lines, I put the old plugs back in, but did turn it over several times, for several seconds which in theory blew enough fuel out of the jugs to let the old plugs fire her up. The remaining fuel simply hasn't had time to get flushed out yet...

You need to be careful about turning the engine over w/ the starter while the spark plugs are out. Again, I don't know enough about the LT, but some fuel management systems will continue to pump fuel through the injectors into the cylinders while the starter is engaged.
Depending upon how sophisticated BMW's electronic engine control is, it might or might not shut off fuel delivery with the absence of spark/ignition. The best way to avoid this is to remove the fuse for the electronic engine control or fuel injectors, assuming this is the only means available to rid the cylinders of excess fuel.

It would be best to have an air compressor whereas you can blow air into the cylinders via the spark plug hole, and dry out/remove any raw fuel that way, otherwise, you might find yourself chasing your own tail.

Jeff
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post #23 of 23 Old May 22nd, 2012, 11:38 am Thread Starter
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Re: Baffled

When I did it, I didn't actually know there was fuel in the cylinders. But, I did unplug the fuel pump at the tank before turing it over so as not to pump any fuel.

2000 K1200LT (Does LT really stand for Light TRuck?)
2001 R1100S Bumble Bee
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