Cams from an RS to a LT, worth it? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 17 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 9:31 am Thread Starter
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Question Cams from an RS to a LT, worth it?

On eBay the other night looking at parts and saw an ad for a set of camshafts from an RS. The ad (and of course I know ads never lie) said the cams are a easy fit into a LT and will increase power in the upper RPM's dramatically. I was wondering if anybody had toyed with this.

Thanks,

Gene Sweeney

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post #2 of 17 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 10:31 am
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From my understanding the cams the LT has are for more torck. If you really want to understand read about these guys. They explain cam timing and lift. I do believe it is hard to improve on the factory....Me I have thought about changing the injector, chip, and exhaust but not sure if it is worth the $$...Maybe I should start a thread...Still learning this forum environment...Thanks for the mail...
Jeff
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http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/bmwturbos.htm#top

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post #3 of 17 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 5:27 pm
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I remember discussion about this on the old board.

Up shot was the engine and transmission for the LT was optimized for its weight and intended use, while the engine and transmission for the RT are optimized for its weight and intended usage.

Bob
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post #4 of 17 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 6:06 pm
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check the archives on old site

http://www.bmwlt.net/ubbthreads/show...=&view=&sb=&o=

Jon Bush
' 09 RT
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post #5 of 17 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 6:21 pm
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What I remember from the old discussions (started on the original Yahoo LT group) was that the K1100RS cams helped on the high end without so noticeable a drop in power on the low end, as the K1200RS ones exhibited. Seems the K1200RS cams dropped the low end torque too much for the LT's weight and gearing. The K1100RS cams were a good middle ground.

In any event though, when you change cams there is no free lunch. Gain on the top end and it is almost inevitable that you will loose on the low.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
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post #6 of 17 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 6:43 pm
 
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
In any event though, when you change cams there is no free lunch. Gain on the top end and it is almost inevitable that you will loose on the low.
I have to believe that would be murder on this already-too-delicate clutch. No?
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post #7 of 17 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 6:53 pm
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Originally Posted by messenger13
I have to believe that would be murder on this already-too-delicate clutch. No?
No, it would probably help save the clutch, since the low end torque will be reduced. Never heard of an LT clutch slipping at high RPM, unless it is contaminated because of leaking oil/slave seal.

If I remember correctly though, the high end power gains by swapping only the cams was noticeable, but not overwhelming.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #8 of 17 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 7:04 pm
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I would think so. Imagine it on an incline. Say, getting stuck at a steep red light on Mission St. in San Francisco. Two-up you'd use up a third of your clutch media just to get moving. Maybe even need a little Fred Flintstone power from your lower appendages.

There are times when I wish I has a little more power but generally speaking, not enough to go through the expense or machinations to gain that 5-7% bump which often leads to 10-14% drop in fuel economy. It's a luxury touring bike. I understand you "can" put two people on a GT.

In the end, I will wait for the new one. Maybe 135 hp with 6 gears and 170 pounds lighter.

By the way, BMWRA is soliciting requests from LT owners on what they would like to see on the LT. [email protected]

Bob Morrow #4204
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2002 K1200LTE "Green Hornet" LT 4 Two (history)
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post #9 of 17 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 9:18 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replys! Me thinks 'll wait for the new bike as well, I don't need to be caught with a fully loaded LT and no low end grunt (the bike that is LOL).

Gene Sweeney

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post #10 of 17 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 10:00 pm
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Rhinewest Cam Change

Have you looked into the cam timing changes that Rhinewest offers? I think it's just the sprockets that are changed.

I heard a few good things from one LTer who had them put in at CCR. Initial impression was good, don't know about the long term.

David
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post #11 of 17 Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 7:24 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
In any event though, when you change cams there is no free lunch. Gain on the top end and it is almost inevitable that you will loose on the low.
Agree so perhaps pull the head and mill 10-20 thou off if possible. Does anyone know if there is valve overlap with the 1100 cams. If so this would contribute to the loss in low end , Due to reduced cranking pressure. Either way milling the head will enhance power throughout the RPM range. Bottom line don't mess with it stock is best. Been there!

Pete Murray
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2002 LT 171 K Gone
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post #12 of 17 Old Mar 25th, 2006, 2:40 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
No, it would probably help save the clutch, since the low end torque will be reduced. Never heard of an LT clutch slipping at high RPM, unless it is contaminated because of leaking oil/slave seal.

If I remember correctly though, the high end power gains by swapping only the cams was noticeable, but not overwhelming.

Hello David,

On a side note, thanks for the reply you made to me on the bolts for the oil sump in another thread.

What is your opinion on installing a turbo on the LT? I am not seriously considering it, too much investment for the return, and probably reduction in resale value, vs just buy a faster bike. However.......

I love the LT but it is not quick enough for my liking, I do not mean top speed, but the quick bursts that we often seek. I find the power in my R1100RT '99 to be more instantenous.

any thoughts or opinions on the prospect of increasing the power in the LT significantly?

Thanks for your continued, detailed and accurate replies,

Mark

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post #13 of 17 Old Mar 25th, 2006, 2:48 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbreen
Hello David,

On a side note, thanks for the reply you made to me on the bolts for the oil sump in another thread.

What is your opinion on installing a turbo on the LT? I am not seriously considering it, too much investment for the return, and probably reduction in resale value, vs just buy a faster bike. However.......

I love the LT but it is not quick enough for my liking, I do not mean top speed, but the quick bursts that we often seek. I find the power in my R1100RT '99 to be more instantenous.

any thoughts or opinions on the prospect of increasing the power in the LT significantly?

Thanks for your continued, detailed and accurate replies,

Mark

We have not yet seen that anyone has turbocharged an LT. RB Racing has advertised a system for years, but to my knowledge, the only one in existence is theirs. I am sure if anyone had actually done it outside of their development bike, we would probably have heard about it.

Seems even they realized the clutch is not up to the added horsepower, and for a couple years now they have said they were coming out with a new clutch, but that has been "vaporware". I think the clutch is just fine for the stock bike, but don't think much additional power would be tolerated easily, and it would slip some, and go rapidly downhill fast once this started.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #14 of 17 Old Mar 26th, 2006, 5:42 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
We have not yet seen that anyone has turbocharged an LT. RB Racing has advertised a system for years, but to my knowledge, the only one in existence is theirs. I am sure if anyone had actually done it outside of their development bike, we would probably have heard about it.

Seems even they realized the clutch is not up to the added horsepower, and for a couple years now they have said they were coming out with a new clutch, but that has been "vaporware". I think the clutch is just fine for the stock bike, but don't think much additional power would be tolerated easily, and it would slip some, and go rapidly downhill fast once this started.
I agree with your comments, and additionally, I fear that it would make the bike close to worthless, lets face it, would any of us buy a turbo fitted LT?

But this leaves only a few options, buy a K1200GT, which has a lovely engine, but is by no means a luxurious bike, buy a RT which is luxurious but does not have the fierce power of the K engine, or buy a K1200R and keep the LT, or wait until BMW bring out a new model and then wait until a few second hand ones come on the market......... no easy choices here.

Am I the only one that is dis-satisfied with the LT's performance?

And before I get into trouble, I am not talking about ultimate top speed, I am referring to that rapid acceleration from 40 - 80 when it is required that is available from my '99 R1100RT

Marko

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post #15 of 17 Old Mar 26th, 2006, 10:08 am
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Mark, If you have a pre-05 then change the pistons. The RS pistons are higher in compresion and forged. It will do the same as decking the head. If you still want some ump then change the rearend ratio. Go to a 2.91 or 3:1 and you will see a night and day difference in pull. Your RPM's will change right at 500 going from a 2.75:1 to a 3:1. All easy fixes.
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post #16 of 17 Old Mar 26th, 2006, 3:28 pm
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Originally Posted by captainasty
Mark, If you have a pre-05 then change the pistons. The RS pistons are higher in compresion and forged. It will do the same as decking the head. If you still want some ump then change the rearend ratio. Go to a 2.91 or 3:1 and you will see a night and day difference in pull. Your RPM's will change right at 500 going from a 2.75:1 to a 3:1. All easy fixes.
Hello Guys,

It is reletively easy to do? The rear end drive sounds not too difficult, any comments?

Mark

Mark Breen

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post #17 of 17 Old Mar 26th, 2006, 9:33 pm
 
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If ya want a clutch to go with your horse power give these guys a try.. Their clutches are the very best... http://www.southbendclutch.com/dynamax.html............Regards Pete
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