Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 4:07 am Thread Starter
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Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

I just got a new job, after two years, and spent my wad on a commuting bike - a 2001 K1200LT (birth date 0700 sound right?). The guy I bought it from appears to have put VERY few miles on it for the 6 years he owned it and the guy that owned it before him put 49k miles on it - he was also the first owner of this bike and the owner of the local (to the second guy) BMW shop (Engle BMW).

At any rate, as soon as I handed over the cash and started off to ride it home it began sputtering and backfiring and dogging out on the highway. I limped it off the highway PRAYING the guy would answer his phone for me and didn't just sell me a known lemon. He did and we agreed that it was probably just old gas as he hadn't been able to ride it for a few years after hurting his back, which was his reasoning for selling it. At any rate, he shows up, sucks out most of the fuel (5 gallon can, bike holds 6, was almost full) and refills it with new gas and a gas treatment. The problem persists for a couple of miles and then all of a sudden she smooths out and rides like a dream and I spend the rest of the day smiling and riding around.

I ride the bike a few more days and all of a sudden the problem is back. I'm thinking...boo!! I check around the 'net, find this site, sounds like a fuel filter issue. I just spent the last 12 hours (with some coffee and cig "cool off" time - lots of it actually - and two runs to walmart to get a strap oil filter wrench and returning it because it wasn't big enough and then just pulling the belt out of my pants and using it and a pair of channel locks to get into the tank) changing said filter. The battery was disconnected for that time as well so when I got it all back together (but for two screws we can't talk about) I do the whole "turn on, rotate throttle twice, turn off" thing and then start it. NO CHANGE!

I'm not sure what to do now. Listening to the fuel pump it sounds fine. Heck, now the nav actually works too...

There ARE two wires I don't remember disconnecting but also don't remember seeing during disassembly. They follow the frame down pretty much alongside the wire for the fuel pump (right side of bike, when sitting on it) and end in "connectors" that would *seem* to connect to each other (one is male, the other female, same type/interface) except that there is a brown wire connecting them already AND there's not enough play between them with the wrap/tape to actually get them together.

The job starts Monday - ANY HELP would be greatly appreciated. The cheaper the better because until I get that first paycheck, if I make it in, I've got about $100 to spend...

Please and thank you!!
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post #2 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 4:55 am Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Should also mention that I am thoroughly happy to have found this site - look forward to participating for years to come...IF I can get this bike to run.

Battery is disconnected for the while - time for a "nap". Then I'll see if I can't make it to a gas station, top off the tank, and see what happens...
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post #3 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 5:03 am
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knobdy
There ARE two wires I don't remember disconnecting but also don't remember seeing during disassembly. They follow the frame down pretty much alongside the wire for the fuel pump (right side of bike, when sitting on it) and end in "connectors" that would *seem* to connect to each other (one is male, the other female, same type/interface) except that there is a brown wire connecting them already AND there's not enough play between them with the wrap/tape to actually get them together.

The job starts Monday - ANY HELP would be greatly appreciated. The cheaper the better because until I get that first paycheck, if I make it in, I've got about $100 to spend...

Please and thank you!!
Congrats on the new bike.

Buying a used bike can be a challenge. I bought all three of mine used, and performed a teardown similar to a 24K service on each to get a good feel for any issues on the bike.
The sputtering does sound like a fuel issue. Run a HEAVY dose of LUCAS fuel injection cleaner through each and every tank for 1K miles. LOTS of highway driving.
Check the plug wires for chaffing, however, I would think the problem would get worse at the engine heated.
Put new plugs in her.

The two wires you found are SPARES. They are for another power point, optional, but not installed on yours.
Keep us posted....

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Remember folks, street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph. ~Jim Samuels




Current Love
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2000 K1200LT Canyon Red (Suzie Q)
1986 Honda Interceptor Black (Weezy)
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post #4 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 8:14 am
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

When it stops, is there a vacuum in the fuel tank? Pull the filler cap and see if you get a
"whoosh" of air. If so, them you have the infamous "plugged canister"

However, that would not explain the first instance, when you had not riden far enough to use enough fuel to cause the vacuum.

There is a lot of information here regarding the "caneristerectomy" many have done over the years.

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post #5 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 9:19 am
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Keep it most simple and probable. After many years of minimal use, what could cause the behavior - common sense says it should be gas related... Could there be some rubbish in some of the fuel injectors moving around?

Could rats (no kidding) or other little "friends" have bit some of the wires? How was the old girl stored?

BTW - after many years of minimal use:

- change brake fluids - flush properly
- change oil & filter

Tons of information in this site! Take your time to scan it through. Everything you ever have wanted to know of LT (and some you don't) is here!

Born to be wild so why not

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post #6 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 10:35 am
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by C-A-D
Keep it most simple and probable. After many years of minimal use, what could cause the behavior - common sense says it should be gas related...BTW - after many years of minimal use:

- change brake fluids - flush properly
- change oil & filter

Tons of information in this site! Take your time to scan it through. Everything you ever have wanted to know of LT (and some you don't) is here!

+1

"You can tell more about a person by what he says about others than you can by what others say about him."
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Remember folks, street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph. ~Jim Samuels




Current Love
2001 K1200LT Champagne (Roxy)

Previous loves...
2000 K1200LT Canyon Red (Suzie Q)
1986 Honda Interceptor Black (Weezy)
1999 K1200LT Graphite (Grey Goose)
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post #7 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 11:26 am
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Talking Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knobdy
I just got a new job, after two years, and spent my wad on a commuting bike - a 2001 K1200LT (birth date 0700 sound right?). The guy I bought it from appears to have put VERY few miles on it for the 6 years he owned it and the guy that owned it before him put 49k miles on it - he was also the first owner of this bike and the owner of the local (to the second guy) BMW shop (Engle BMW).

At any rate, as soon as I handed over the cash and started off to ride it home it began sputtering and backfiring and dogging out on the highway. I limped it off the highway PRAYING the guy would answer his phone for me and didn't just sell me a known lemon. He did and we agreed that it was probably just old gas as he hadn't been able to ride it for a few years after hurting his back, which was his reasoning for selling it. At any rate, he shows up, sucks out most of the fuel (5 gallon can, bike holds 6, was almost full) and refills it with new gas and a gas treatment. The problem persists for a couple of miles and then all of a sudden she smooths out and rides like a dream and I spend the rest of the day smiling and riding around.

I ride the bike a few more days and all of a sudden the problem is back. I'm thinking...boo!! I check around the 'net, find this site, sounds like a fuel filter issue. I just spent the last 12 hours (with some coffee and cig "cool off" time - lots of it actually - and two runs to walmart to get a strap oil filter wrench and returning it because it wasn't big enough and then just pulling the belt out of my pants and using it and a pair of channel locks to get into the tank) changing said filter. The battery was disconnected for that time as well so when I got it all back together (but for two screws we can't talk about) I do the whole "turn on, rotate throttle twice, turn off" thing and then start it. NO CHANGE!

I'm not sure what to do now. Listening to the fuel pump it sounds fine. Heck, now the nav actually works too...

There ARE two wires I don't remember disconnecting but also don't remember seeing during disassembly. They follow the frame down pretty much alongside the wire for the fuel pump (right side of bike, when sitting on it) and end in "connectors" that would *seem* to connect to each other (one is male, the other female, same type/interface) except that there is a brown wire connecting them already AND there's not enough play between them with the wrap/tape to actually get them together.

The job starts Monday - ANY HELP would be greatly appreciated. The cheaper the better because until I get that first paycheck, if I make it in, I've got about $100 to spend...

Please and thank you!!
Brian,
I'm not a mechanic, but I do most of my own maintenace on my '03 LT (same system as yours, I think) and at over 133,000 miles it still purrs like a kitten. I too think you have a fuel/injector problem or even starving for air. I'd be glad to stop by for a look. As you're close by, maybe we could take a ride together sometime.(after you get it running) Or maybe not if our riding styles don't match or I'm just too ugly to be seen with. LOL Send me a private message if you're interested in getting together. My time is spent riding and singing in the Church choir and in that order. I'm about 40 minutes from St Jo so all I need is an address so I can find you..
By the way.......was there any gunk/chunks coming out of the tank when you were putting in the new filter?
I'd look at the plugs, wires on the injectors, plug wires, look at the gas coming out of the pressure line on the left side of the bike. Just my .02 cents worth. Sure hope it's something simple!!


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Bought used K1200LT number 3. This one is green/teal with 31,369(now 7/29/2018 54,143) miles and is an '02. The first 2 bikes made it to near 150,000 miles.
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Due to heart health, the Dr says not to ride under 40 degree air temp. Ugh! Now it is harder to get my 18000 miles a year in just in the summer. Guess that stopped my 20 degree rides now.
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78 years young!
04 Honda Reflex.....Hers (it mostly sits)
Converted HD rider.
Love this LT bike and still waiting for my first speeding ticket. LOL
Vern
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post #8 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 1:18 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Wow, thanks for all of the quick responses! As it happens we're having a bit of a downpour so I won't be going for that fill-up and trial ride after all - figure I'll just leave the battery disconnected until, hopefully, Sunday and give it a try. Last chance to get it to work before the job...

Some have suggested a spark plug change - just read up a little on that and am pretty sure it's WAY out of my comfort zone. My plan was to get a couple weeks of work in and then take it in for a complete and in-depth tune-up. Setting for so long it no doubt needs a lot of love.


Vern, I'd be happy to give a ride a try! Not sure where you're at but I often take the ride up to big lake and then over to 7hwy and back down.

Reminds me, I used to belong to the BMW club when I had a 325...is there a big BMW bike club in the area? This canisterectemy sounds like a great idea for a tech session...
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post #9 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 1:23 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

No whoosh - but then I've only been able to start it and try to rev it a bit.

No mice, it was garaged, looks pretty pristine, actually.

I didn't do a very good job of reassembly I'm afraid. Those two screws I didn't want to mention are for each side fairing, over/into the bridge/front seat assembly. And the gas cover doesn't fully open. Not sure if I STILL didn't get the gas tank seated correctly or if I simply don't know how to get the tank cover back on properly - thinking it's a bit of both...
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post #10 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 1:29 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Should also mention that it backfires a lot as it does this stuttering - not through the exhaust though...know what I mean??

Meant to change the air filter while I was in there but no one has one in stock!
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post #11 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 1:35 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Welcome to the Very Best Forum on the Net! I mean that, these guys here are the most helpful, friendly, caring bunch you could ever wish for.

I will bet that when the old gas was removed it was on the sidestand. The fuel tank on these bikes is almost in two sections with the lowest connecting point in the back. You probably still have contaminants in the fuel system. At WORST case you are looking at removing the injectors and having them professionally back-flush cleaned and flushing out your fuel system. Annoying but not too bad. Please learn from my mistake and only use Submersible\Immersion rated Fuel Injection hose inside the tank, not regular FI hose. This you can get at NAPA or someplace similar at around 30$ to 40$ per 1ft piece. Using the wrong hose will have the hose blow off the filter about a week later and you will coast to a stop as the engine gently quits.

Plug wires and Plugs (as already mentioned) are also a possibility. I just replaced my wires to cure a stumbling issue.

Good Luck, and don't give up on her. These girls don't like to Waltz in the parking lot, but Man do they ever love to dance on a curvy road!

53 MPG and life just keeps getting better

2001 Triumph Sprint ST [sold]
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post #12 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 1:38 pm
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Talking Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knobdy
Wow, thanks for all of the quick responses! As it happens we're having a bit of a downpour so I won't be going for that fill-up and trial ride after all - figure I'll just leave the battery disconnected until, hopefully, Sunday and give it a try. Last chance to get it to work before the job...

Some have suggested a spark plug change - just read up a little on that and am pretty sure it's WAY out of my comfort zone. My plan was to get a couple weeks of work in and then take it in for a complete and in-depth tune-up. Setting for so long it no doubt needs a lot of love.


Vern, I'd be happy to give a ride a try! Not sure where you're at but I often take the ride up to big lake and then over to 7hwy and back down.

Reminds me, I used to belong to the BMW club when I had a 325...is there a big BMW bike club in the area? This canisterectemy sounds like a great idea for a tech session...
Brian,
Yep, been to Big Lake many times with my RT buddy in Stanberry.We've been on 7 a couple of times, but usually stay on the MO side of the river. I ride a road north of RT 6 , east of Maysville,past Lake Viking that has a bunch of 40 mph curves(at 60 or 65 on the LT) that is fun to ride after everyone goes to work. I pretty much have the road to myself and love powering out of the curves. I live 12 miles NE of King City. I ride most everyday. In fact I was out this morning for a 40 mile ride.
Sparkplug change is a piece of cake. I have some used ones that would work for a test if you're interested. It takes a lot longer to get to the plugs than it does to actually change them.
It does sound like you're on the right track to trace your problem to it's source.
Vern


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Bought used K1200LT number 3. This one is green/teal with 31,369(now 7/29/2018 54,143) miles and is an '02. The first 2 bikes made it to near 150,000 miles.
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Due to heart health, the Dr says not to ride under 40 degree air temp. Ugh! Now it is harder to get my 18000 miles a year in just in the summer. Guess that stopped my 20 degree rides now.
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78 years young!
04 Honda Reflex.....Hers (it mostly sits)
Converted HD rider.
Love this LT bike and still waiting for my first speeding ticket. LOL
Vern
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post #13 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 1:43 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Reading your latest post (#10) sounds like it might be more timing related. Hall Sensor comes to mind as a possibility. These can suffer a heat related breakdown and cause timing to be erratic as well as a total failure.

53 MPG and life just keeps getting better

2001 Triumph Sprint ST [sold]
2000 K1200LT 'Nimitz'
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post #14 of 54 Old Apr 27th, 2012, 2:06 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knobdy
Should also mention that it backfires a lot as it does this stuttering - not through the exhaust though...know what I mean??

Meant to change the air filter while I was in there but no one has one in stock!
If you can change the air filter, you can do the plugs.......

"You can tell more about a person by what he says about others than you can by what others say about him."
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Remember folks, street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph. ~Jim Samuels




Current Love
2001 K1200LT Champagne (Roxy)

Previous loves...
2000 K1200LT Canyon Red (Suzie Q)
1986 Honda Interceptor Black (Weezy)
1999 K1200LT Graphite (Grey Goose)
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post #15 of 54 Old Apr 29th, 2012, 7:47 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Tore it all down again and checked the air filter - looked new. Changed the plugs - not with my first choice but those that were mentioned on these forums. Removed the canister (though it had already been disconnected ).

PROBLEM now is, that I know of before I start the bike again, how do I get this @)#(*[email protected]()#@( gas tank back in place properly? The left side is fully seated forward on the grommet but the right side WILL NOT GO!

I've looked at everything I can see and there shouldn't be anything stopping it - but until it goes forward a bit, and the tank up a bit even, that hole on the right side just isn't going to line up. I don't want to prop it up with my hand again, force the bolt in and then not have any of the plastic line up correctly...again....
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post #16 of 54 Old Apr 29th, 2012, 8:52 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Centaurious
Plug wires and Plugs (as already mentioned) are also a possibility. I just replaced my wires to cure a stumbling issue.
When you replaced your wires to cure the stumble, was it hesitating just off of idle up to about 2K or so RPM? Did you do an ohms test with a meter before you changed the wires? What were the readings?

My 2000 LT has a stumbling problem from idle to around 2K RPM . It has been canisterectomized and has no brown wire. Haven't looked for the yellow cat code plug yet. But I have changed plugs which helped. I'll do an ohms test on the wires. Anyone know the values to look for? Is that in the Haynes book? Will also check the tank closer.

Ollie
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1993 K1100 LT
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post #17 of 54 Old Apr 29th, 2012, 9:00 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Go carefully, my friend (beer commercial). Things which do not line up on the LT will break if you force them. I imagine you have dirty injectors. Get it back together and give it a good dose of Seafoam Cleaner. You may also want to check your in-tank fuel line closely for a crack. Welcome to the site. There are many here with great knowledge. Do NOT take that bike to your local BMW dealer and tell them to "just fix it" as they (BMW motorcycles) are quite expensive to have worked on at the dealership.


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post #18 of 54 Old Apr 29th, 2012, 9:28 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
PROBLEM now is, that I know of before I start the bike again, how do I get this @)#(*[email protected]()#@( gas tank back in place properly? The left side is fully seated forward on the grommet but the right side WILL NOT GO!

I've looked at everything I can see and there shouldn't be anything stopping it - but until it goes forward a bit, and the tank up a bit even, that hole on the right side just isn't going to line up. I don't want to prop it up with my hand again, force the bolt in and then not have any of the plastic line up correctly...again....
had trouble with mine - inside rubber isolation support fell out and blocked forward motion - don't force it and break something

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
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post #19 of 54 Old Apr 29th, 2012, 10:48 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Getting ready to dump the sea foam in and see what happens.

Someone asked about rough idle - it doesn't actually idle that bad, but if I rev it up it'll drop after 4k (before plugs). I didn't notice that after the plugs - instead it reved fine beyond 4k but stuttered when I tried to hold it around 2.5-3k.

If I post again tonight it's because I made it back to the garage...if it's in the morning it's because I finally made it home and have another question...really hoping I can use that little dancing guy character I see to my right as I type this!
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post #20 of 54 Old Apr 29th, 2012, 11:35 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...



NOT

So I put it down on the side that DOESN'T have the "handy" handle...on a mud shoulder...

Now, when I can start it (this hasn't been an issue before) it'll idle rough and I might get a few good revs out of it to 4k. Then it stutters. If I pull the throttle back a bit and hold it it might go to 2k but then stutters around 1k or less and never goes above - coughing though (I'm guessing) the intake.

It had a 1/4 tank when I added the sea foam. Could add more premium. Feels like I'm throwing good money after bad.

Someone mentioned timing - not sure why that would happen from sitting (and it idled AWESOME when I went to look at it and the guy said he started it up fairly regularly) but who knows. If it's something *I* can do, I'll give it a try. Or test anyway...
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post #21 of 54 Old Apr 29th, 2012, 11:36 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

At this point I'd try to get my money back if I hadn't already titled it in my name and paid taxes on it...after it ran fine for a week...
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post #22 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 12:15 am Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

On a lark I tried starting it with the gas cap off (test for vacuum leaks?). I could hear sucking and didn't change the idle much other than it died quicker. Getting harder to start so I'm going to guess I'm killing my battery too...and maybe starter eventually...
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post #23 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 12:40 am Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Final comment tonight so I can find a way into the new job tomorrow: just added 3 gallons of premium but it won't idle long enough without me babying the throttle to get much of it or the sea foam through, I'm afraid. that ride should have gotten quite a bit though - considering what the computer said I was getting in mileage.

If I didn't mention it in my first post perhaps it's worth noting that I to keep it moving (not running, but actually moving when it is running) I have to twist the throttle non-stop. My wrist is currently killing me.
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post #24 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 4:56 am
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

If I am reading your history correctly, I understand the bike sat for some time without rider input. Keeping it simple is great advice. Look at the things that could dry rot or deteriorate over time to cause these symptoms.
I was reading a post earlier about similar symptoms. He found the problem was in the fuel lines inside the tank. They looked fine at first, bit hairline cracks in the famous 180 degree bend had caused the same problems you have.
Consider changing those lines with immersible f/i hose, proper clamps, new fuel filter, and new sump pickup filter.
On another note, look at your tires VERY closely. If there are any signs of cracks or breakdown on the sidewalls, replace them, period. You don't want that problem at 80 mph.

Don't let this issue get you too frustrated. She can and will be fixed. The LT is a spectacular bike, and when you get her running perfect again, you will have some of the best rides of your life.
Never, EVER, let anything mechanical beat you.
Soon you go from to

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Remember folks, street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph. ~Jim Samuels




Current Love
2001 K1200LT Champagne (Roxy)

Previous loves...
2000 K1200LT Canyon Red (Suzie Q)
1986 Honda Interceptor Black (Weezy)
1999 K1200LT Graphite (Grey Goose)
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post #25 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 6:32 am
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Also, since you have a local [Vern] volunteering to help you, you should take advantage and pick his brain. You'll love your bike when it's running right. It'll outrun the big dogs and still be smooth as silk. After you've dumped it stopping a time or two and learn you can't have the front wheel angled and use the front brake at the same time, and figure out all the little things to improve your bike to suit you, you'll be so happy you got that bmw. It really has spoiled me. Cruise control, electric adjustable windshield, heated seats and grips, lots of storage, nice bike-looking bike, 45-50 mpg, does curves very well...does straights pretty well also. And so smooth...did I mention that? Good luck.

2000 Maroon [Canyon Red] K1200LTC
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post #26 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 7:51 am Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lartross
Also, since you have a local [Vern] volunteering to help you, you should take advantage and pick his brain. You'll love your bike when it's running right.
This is true - but now it's a matter of having the time! Arghh... I did love it for that week though, we have a great parkway system in St. Joseph and it was a blast riding through it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochinosucio
Don't let this issue get you too frustrated. She can and will be fixed. The LT is a spectacular bike, and when you get her running perfect again, you will have some of the best rides of your life.
Never, EVER, let anything mechanical beat you.
I know you're right!

I REALLY don't want to have to take this thing back down to the tank...again. When I had the pump out to change the filter I checked everything over - it looked pretty darn new! I'm still believing it's just "bad gas" I guess...or wanting to.
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post #27 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 8:23 am
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Talking Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Brian,
YEP, I'm still available.

I/we/you need to remove the tank and replace/check the fuel lines inside the tank.

I used stainless steel clamps and lines bought at the l;ocal auto supply store.

It still could be dirty injectors, but I'm betting it's a simple fix.

I'll pm my phone number. I'll help you curse the bike over the phone.

Vern


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Bought used K1200LT number 3. This one is green/teal with 31,369(now 7/29/2018 54,143) miles and is an '02. The first 2 bikes made it to near 150,000 miles.
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Due to heart health, the Dr says not to ride under 40 degree air temp. Ugh! Now it is harder to get my 18000 miles a year in just in the summer. Guess that stopped my 20 degree rides now.
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78 years young!
04 Honda Reflex.....Hers (it mostly sits)
Converted HD rider.
Love this LT bike and still waiting for my first speeding ticket. LOL
Vern
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post #28 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 10:37 am Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by vernvernvern
Brian,
YEP, I'm still available.

I/we/you need to remove the tank and replace/check the fuel lines inside the tank.

I used stainless steel clamps and lines bought at the l;ocal auto supply store.

I looked at everything when I changed the fuel filter - as I've said, it all looked pretty good to me (and now I have an almost full tank of gas, which is $30 when you include the Sea Foam)! lol

If it's an injector wouldn't the sea foam work on that? Just need more running it through? Planned to ride it around the neighborhood today but am putting it off a bit, in hopes that it warms up at some point!
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post #29 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 10:58 am
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

IF it idles fine then it is unlikely to be injectors, more likely to be how it senses air flow, do not see in clymers how it does that - either hot wire or vane that moves with increased air flow, someone on the site likely knows how that works.

on the K100 and K1100 it is a vane moved by airflow and if it is stiff or wiper corroded give those symptoms

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
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post #30 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 4:33 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Vern is the man and is going to come by tomorrow. In preparation (?) I'm back down to the gas tank. Went to disconnect the QDs and noticed gas on the outside one (closest to you I assume is the "outside"). I cleaned it up, reconnected, turned the bike on, revved it a bunch, repeated this, never saw gas again. probably still a problem and they're a SERIOUS PiA to deal with anyway. Perhaps bypass them with a copper ??? (tube?) for now until I can afford better QDs?

Now I'm taking the tank off, pulling the pump and giving all of the lines a REAL GOOD LOOK. As Vern and I were talking on the phone, it keeps coming back to not getting gas. It has plenty of sea foam, new filter, the pump sure sounds like it's working good... must be a leaky line, right?
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post #31 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 4:35 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gary45
IF it idles fine then it is unlikely to be injectors, more likely to be how it senses air flow

It's not idling well - it was, but it's not now. I guess my "improvements" are having the opposite affect...
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post #32 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 4:36 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

You shouldn't hear the fuel pump. When the engine is running, the pump can't be heard. When the engine is off the pump shouldn't be heard. When are you hearing this thing?

Paul Miller, Calgary
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08 Concours14
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post #33 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 5:08 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

You can replace your quick connects with a double 5/16 barb and fuel injection rated clamps. The OE quick connects are plastic and will eventually fail which causes anything between a small leak and a big fire on the bike. Most of the time it's just a big leak. The drawback to the barb is that you must siphon out the tank before removal.


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post #34 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 5:11 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjdm
You shouldn't hear the fuel pump. When the engine is running, the pump can't be heard. When the engine is off the pump shouldn't be heard. When are you hearing this thing?
Just when I turn the key on - the initial pressurization?
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post #35 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 5:12 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanwoolsey
You can replace your quick connects with a double 5/16 barb and fuel injection rated clamps. The OE quick connects are plastic and will eventually fail which causes anything between a small leak and a big fire on the bike. Most of the time it's just a big leak. The drawback to the barb is that you must siphon out the tank before removal.
Siphoning it now, so that's not an issue, lol. Parts stores carry these, cheap? Connects directly to the hoses currently using the quick connects? I assume I can just re-use those clamps...?
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post #36 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 5:46 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Auto parts store for the FI rated clamps. You can tell the difference as on a FI clamp the metal band goes all the way around the hose and spans the gap where the screw is. Any hardware store for the 5/16 double barbs in the brass plumbing fittings. Total cost maybe ten bucks.


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post #37 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 6:08 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knobdy
Siphoning it now, so that's not an issue, lol. Parts stores carry these, cheap? Connects directly to the hoses currently using the quick connects? I assume I can just re-use those clamps...?
Factory clamps are crimped on, not reuseable. Spend the bucks here, you don't want a fuel blow out, in or out of the tank. Even so, it should be less than $20

"You can tell more about a person by what he says about others than you can by what others say about him."
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Remember folks, street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph. ~Jim Samuels




Current Love
2001 K1200LT Champagne (Roxy)

Previous loves...
2000 K1200LT Canyon Red (Suzie Q)
1986 Honda Interceptor Black (Weezy)
1999 K1200LT Graphite (Grey Goose)
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post #38 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 6:12 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochinosucio
Factory clamps are crimped on, not reuseable. Spend the bucks here, you don't want a fuel blow out, in or out of the tank. Even so, it should be less than $20
Well heck, that could be my problem right there - when I replaced the fuel filter I reused those clips because the ones that came with the filter were...well, crap.

Can I just use the "screw tension" type for those lines as well as those on the pump? And if so, the factory clamps have was looks to be a protective metal sleeve under them - that just slide off (though I suppose you could reuse that, right?

Finally, now that I've removed the gas tank but it's the first time I've disconnected the top lines, how do I know which one goes where? Guessing the one with gas in it doesn't connect to the line leading to air at the back of the bike...but wanna make sure.
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post #39 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 6:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Never mind about the clamps - just saw the newer post (and re-read yours)...doh!

Thanks guys...I'm a lot happier today - knowing I have some support (thanks Vern!) - than I was last night when I considered catching it on fire and rolling it into the pond.
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post #40 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 6:32 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Just to be sure you know what you are dealing with, the FI system operates at about 50 PSI so proper clamps and no leaks are important. Clamps on the pickup filter are no big deal, just everything downstream from the pump.


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post #41 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 6:37 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

More thoughts....
1- Check the orientation of the fuel filter.
2- Remove and check all the internal fuel lines, including bending at all angles, looking for ANY cracks or distortions.
3- Since the canisterectomy was done, make sure THAT THE LINE to the injectors has been capped, and is also in good shape.
4- Disconnect the fuel line after the fuel pump and at the injectors- blow compressed air thru it with and without being capped. MAKE SURE THE FUEL LINE HAS NO FUEL IN IT FIRST! Without the cap will ensure clear lines, with a cap to ensure no leaks.

You have a fuel/air problem in my opinon.....a simple one that's gonna piss you off.....

"You can tell more about a person by what he says about others than you can by what others say about him."
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Current Love
2001 K1200LT Champagne (Roxy)

Previous loves...
2000 K1200LT Canyon Red (Suzie Q)
1986 Honda Interceptor Black (Weezy)
1999 K1200LT Graphite (Grey Goose)
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post #42 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 6:58 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochinosucio
More thoughts....
1- Check the orientation of the fuel filter.
Was very aware of this possible issue when I installed the new one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochinosucio
2- Remove and check all the internal fuel lines, including bending at all angles, looking for ANY cracks or distortions.
I've pulled the pump and under REAL close inspection I've found several cracks in both of the internal hoses inside the tank (to and from the filter). The one on the usual suspect is big enough to ooze gas when pressed on. Don't know of any other internal hoses but those have to be replaced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochinosucio
3- Since the canisterectomy was done, make sure THAT THE LINE to the injectors has been capped, and is also in good shape.
This one I'm not sure of. The canister was still there - I simply removed it. It wasn't attached to anything but the hoses coming from it were all capped...I don't see where they were attached to know if the remaining hoses are capped. Again, this was no doubt done by the first owner - who was the owner of the BMW dealership, so likely done by one of his mechanics. We can only hope they took care of the boss, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochinosucio
4- Disconnect the fuel line after the fuel pump and at the injectors- blow compressed air thru it with and without being capped. MAKE SURE THE FUEL LINE HAS NO FUEL IN IT FIRST! Without the cap will ensure clear lines, with a cap to ensure no leaks.
Ahh...I'll need to get some compressed air I think, but this is probably what Vern was wanting to do as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochinosucio
You have a fuel/air problem in my opinon.....a simple one that's gonna piss you off.....
Those are the ones that always do, right?!

At least it's always a "chuckling pissed off" and ends with a smile and a ride!
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post #43 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 7:09 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knobdy

This one I'm not sure of. The canister was still there - I simply removed it. It wasn't attached to anything but the hoses coming from it were all capped...I don't see where they were attached to know if the remaining hoses are capped. Again, this was no doubt done by the first owner - who was the owner of the BMW dealership, so likely done by one of his mechanics. We can only hope they took care of the boss, right?

Only the LEFT side hose going to the fuel rail should be capped.
The hose on the RIGHT should be vented overboard. If it is capped, that is your issue. It will act just like a plugged canister.....(Stutter, pop, rattle & die)

"You can tell more about a person by what he says about others than you can by what others say about him."
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Remember folks, street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph. ~Jim Samuels




Current Love
2001 K1200LT Champagne (Roxy)

Previous loves...
2000 K1200LT Canyon Red (Suzie Q)
1986 Honda Interceptor Black (Weezy)
1999 K1200LT Graphite (Grey Goose)
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post #44 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 7:20 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochinosucio
Only the LEFT side hose going to the fuel rail should be capped.
The hose on the RIGHT should be vented overboard. If it is capped, that is your issue. It will act just like a plugged canister.....(Stutter, pop, rattle & die)
Okay, think I located both - the right goes to the tank - vented to the back. The left is plugged tight.

The one going to the tank connects where, on the tank (so that I can make sure I get those two hoses reconnected correctly)?

Also, I don't appear to have a brown wire OR the other thing. There are lots of brown wires, but none where THE brown wire is supposed to be. I would guess this mod was already done by the original owner as well...but would like to verify.
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post #45 of 54 Old Apr 30th, 2012, 7:33 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knobdy

The one going to the tank connects where, on the tank (so that I can make sure I get those two hoses reconnected correctly)?

Also, I don't appear to have a brown wire OR the other thing. There are lots of brown wires, but none where THE brown wire is supposed to be. I would guess this mod was already done by the original owner as well...but would like to verify.
The vent line goes to the white tipover vent valve at the front of the tank.

I think you nailed your problem with the internal hoses in the tank. When those leak you get all kinds of grief. Don't worry about the brown wire until after you get her running smooth again.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #46 of 54 Old May 1st, 2012, 1:47 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...



WOW!!

Just WOW!


Thanks guys for the encouragement and help. Thanks Vern for the hands, tools, pocket money, etc.. You and your buddy will eat on my at the lake soon!

This thing is just too much fun when it runs!
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post #47 of 54 Old May 1st, 2012, 3:03 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

are you up and running?
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post #48 of 54 Old May 1st, 2012, 4:01 pm
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Thumbs up Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knobdy


WOW!!

Just WOW!


Thanks guys for the encouragement and help. Thanks Vern for the hands, tools, pocket money, etc.. You and your buddy will eat on my at the lake soon!

This thing is just too much fun when it runs!

You're very welcome........................was glad we got you back on the road. I KNEW you'd have a BIG SMILE on your face after your sprint to the stop sign near your house after we got it all back together today!. I was really glad I could help. We'll take a ride together soon, I suspect.
Vern


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Bought used K1200LT number 3. This one is green/teal with 31,369(now 7/29/2018 54,143) miles and is an '02. The first 2 bikes made it to near 150,000 miles.
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Due to heart health, the Dr says not to ride under 40 degree air temp. Ugh! Now it is harder to get my 18000 miles a year in just in the summer. Guess that stopped my 20 degree rides now.
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78 years young!
04 Honda Reflex.....Hers (it mostly sits)
Converted HD rider.
Love this LT bike and still waiting for my first speeding ticket. LOL
Vern
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post #49 of 54 Old May 1st, 2012, 4:50 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Feels good, don't it?

------------------------
05 LT - Blue
03 VTX 1300s - fun while it lasted, sucked in the cold.
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post #50 of 54 Old May 1st, 2012, 5:59 pm
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Re: Need help fast: stutter, pop, rattle, die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knobdy


WOW!!

Just WOW!


Thanks guys for the encouragement and help. Thanks Vern for the hands, tools, pocket money, etc.. You and your buddy will eat on my at the lake soon!

This thing is just too much fun when it runs!

Great news!

Now remember, besides taking Vern and his buddy to lunch, consider supporting the site that brought that help to you so it can stick around and help others down the road! Just sayin'.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
-----------------------------------------------

If you want to be happy for a day, drink.
If you want to be happy for a year, marry.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, ride a motorcycle.

-----------------------------------------------


'05 K1200LT - Dark Graphite - RIP 04 OCT 2015
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'99 Road King Classic - Custom Blue/Silver & Chrome - "My Baby" Gone but forever in my heart!

and many, many others.
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