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post #1 of 31 Old Feb 9th, 2012, 11:35 am Thread Starter
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Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

I am in the process of trying to solve my intermittent slipping clutch on my 05 LT. And based on what I read, I am hoping it is caused by a leak in the clutch slave cylinder vs. the rear main seal.

Out of curiosity, I called Bob's BMW and asked how much for a clutch replacement on my 05 LT and was quoted $1,400 to $2,500 for the job. When asked about the swing in price, the tech said it was due to the parts needed to fix and repair other "related" parts. He also told me that it takes their master tech's a half a day ( I am assuming 4 hours is a half day) just to get out the tranny.

This weekend I am having a few local LT riders join me for the tear down and replacement of the clutch slave cylinder seal and weep hole drilling based on John Z's video (THANK YOU JOHN). Wish us luck!

Glenn
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post #2 of 31 Old Feb 9th, 2012, 12:20 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

If your clutch is already slipping. Then replacing just the slave cylinder won't fix anything..
The slave cylinder isn't causing the clutch slip.. It's the fluid that's leaking from the slave cylinder going down the release rod and contaminating the clutch that's causing the slip..
OR, One of the other seals.. Transmission input seal. Engine output seal, Transmission input shaft output seal..Any of these failures can cause the clutch to get contaminated...

You have to go all the way and replace the clutch disk that has been contaminated...

The extra $$$ the mechanic is talking about is all the other seals and stuff you might as well do while you've got it all apart...Although I can't imagine it being another thousand dollars..
I believe there are four seals and an O ring. Maybe an extra hour to put them all in....While you're doing the clutch anyway...So a thousand extra is stretching it a little..Maybe 1600 or so...

Good Luck

John

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post #3 of 31 Old Feb 9th, 2012, 12:56 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Back in 2007 the clutch slippage on my '02 turned out to be from a leaky rear main seal. While they (Iron Horse in Tucson) were in replacing the clutch, I had all the seals replaced, the clutch slave replaced with the updated part, and weep holes drilled in the slave and between the engine and tranny. Total cost was about $1800. Labor accounted for a large amount of that.

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post #4 of 31 Old Feb 9th, 2012, 2:48 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Yes, I know that fixing the seal won't solve the clutch slipping problem -- I am hoping 1. The issue is my clutch slave seal leading and 2. that I can burn off the containments that are on the clutch. I know it is a long shot, but I will be giving it a try this weekend.

Glenn
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post #5 of 31 Old Feb 9th, 2012, 4:30 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Bob's quoted me $2300, the other day. Trans Am in Lititz, PA quoted $1500, which included rear main seal, tranny seals, slave cylinder and the like. Mechanic said about 16 hours labor, and he would gladly drill the weep hole. Dropping off the bike tomorrow, will keep you posted.
HTH
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post #6 of 31 Old Feb 9th, 2012, 4:53 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Quote:

I am hoping 1. The issue is my clutch slave seal leading and 2. that I can burn off the containments that are on the clutch. I know it is a long shot, but I will be giving it a try this weekend.


Good Luck, That kind of plan has never worked out for me....When you get down to the slave cylinder.. Leave the hose connected and pull the slave off the boss.. Then work the clutch lever and see if you're getting any leakage....if oil comes out when removing the slave be sure to catch it on a clean rag so that you can perhaps verify what kind of oil it is..

Really, Good luck..

John

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post #7 of 31 Old Feb 9th, 2012, 7:32 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkersh1
Back in 2007 the clutch slippage on my '02 turned out to be from a leaky rear main seal. While they (Iron Horse in Tucson) were in replacing the clutch, I had all the seals replaced, the clutch slave replaced with the updated part, and weep holes drilled in the slave and between the engine and tranny. Total cost was about $1800. Labor accounted for a large amount of that.
That's what A&S charged me for my '99 with the same problem, had about the same things done about the same time as yours in 2007. I did, however, ride in without all the tupperware on to save a hundred or so on labor.

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post #8 of 31 Old Feb 9th, 2012, 7:36 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by southern_nj
Yes, I know that fixing the seal won't solve the clutch slipping problem -- I am hoping 1. The issue is my clutch slave seal leading and 2. that I can burn off the containments that are on the clutch. I know it is a long shot, but I will be giving it a try this weekend.

Glenn
Going in as far as the weep hole will tell you a lot. 1. If the slave is leaking, 2. if the transmission input shaft rear seal is leaking. But if either of those are not and the release shaft is dry, then all that leaves is the engine seal/o-ring. That was the case on mine but it was not so much the contamination as mine was worn almost to the limits as well. This was from a 6,000 mile trip pulling a trailer with poor clutch technique on my part.

John
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post #9 of 31 Old Feb 10th, 2012, 6:33 am Thread Starter
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

You guys have been great...countdown is 26 hours before I start taking the LT to investigate what the root cause is of the slipping clutch.

BTW, I purchased my seal/gasket from Bob's BMW -- who quoted me on the clutch job -- and it is good thing I called and asked about the status of the parts I ordered Tuesday. The alternate parts guy (new one from Tuesday) said there was no such order -- he did make good and reordered the seal/gasket for me (and absorbed the FedEx cost) -- although I did not get a confirming e-mail on the order????

FYI -- I asked about a 20% discount on parts (I didn't need it on this order since it was only $19 or so in parts) should I buy a clutch and related parts. He said that they do not discount their parts at all and would lose money on certain BMW parts. I then mentioned BMW Chicago (I might have gotten the dealer's name wrong) did, he then quickly said they are out of business.

Thanks for all your help.

Glenn
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post #10 of 31 Old Feb 10th, 2012, 7:00 am
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Glenn, we will look forward to your report on the project, best of luck to you all. I promise you that no matter what the outcome, you will learn a lot. I bought my new slave from Beemer Bone Yard, you get great prices and service there.

When I was doing the weep hole project, I found that I needed new rear pivot bearings and had to order them so that put me back a week. You never know what all you might find when you get into it. In any case, I am a strong advocate of doing it yourself. Saves a hell of a lot of money and you learn so much about your bike.

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post #11 of 31 Old Feb 10th, 2012, 9:20 am
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Glenn,
I replaced my clutch (along with the valve stem seals and other work on the engine) last year. I am in central New Jersey and would be glad to answer any questions you may have (PM me). Here is my post from last April 2011 summarizing my clutch replacement experience with some great references (Kenny Crawford, Kevin Cooke and John Zeiler) and pictures.

I have put over 14K miles on the bike since finishing the clutch/engine work. My total cost for the work was $1150, but that included $500 to my mechanic who did most of the engine work. I'd estimate a clutch job would be about $600 or so for the parts.

Again, PM me if you think I can help.
Dan Sullivan

=======
Last October, I took apart my 01 LT to replace the clutch and rebuilt the cylinder head. At that time I posted pictures of the disassembly. Well, over the winter, I leisurely re-assembled everything. All is running well now except that I had lost my cruise control system (diagnosis is OK but CC just doesn't engage) - something to work on in upcoming weeks.

But I can say I am overall very satisfied with the results. I pulled a lot of information from the BMW LT website, using Kenny Crawford's (and his Texas Gang's) "Changing a Main Seal and Clutch Slave Cylinder"; Kevin Cookes "Slave Cylinder Weep Hole Drilling Procedure"; John Zeiler's video on the weep hole procedure; as well as the Clymer manual and BMW shop manual. As a backyard mechanic, these references were invaluable to me. Oh yes, I also enlisted the support of my local motorcycle mechanic for the more dicey procedures.

The total effort for the work done was just over 6 months (Oct 5, 2010 to April 7, 2011 - a leisurely pace during which time I rode my other bikes), $1150 in parts and labor (I had support from my local mechanic), and about 72 hours in the garage (as opposed to 45 hours for the disassembly).

The pictues of the assembly are at https://picasaweb.google.com/sully2028/01LTAssembly# and if you want to relive the past and see the disassembly pictures, go to https://picasaweb.google.com/sully2028/01LTDisassembly#.

Lessons learned - (1) take more pictures during the disassembly and (2) label all electrical connections prior to disconnecting them, using Gaffer tape (duct tape will not hold the markings).
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post #12 of 31 Old Feb 10th, 2012, 9:44 am
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Here is my recent '05 intermittant clutch slippage saga, from the South Central sub-forum:

Clutch Thread

Since I have an extended warranty, I was hopeful that the clutch was contaminated by fluid; no such luck, and no coverage. Based on the comments posted, and conflicting stories from dealer personnel, I am not so sure anymore whether the clutch is contaminated or not. Only way to be sure is to tear it down and inspect it. If it is contaminated, I will find a way to get otto the dealer and the beatings will be severe! LoL

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post #13 of 31 Old Feb 10th, 2012, 11:36 am
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by sully2028
The pictues of the assembly are at https://picasaweb.google.com/sully2028/01LTAssembly# and if you want to relive the past and see the disassembly pictures, go to https://picasaweb.google.com/sully2028/01LTDisassembly#.

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post #14 of 31 Old Feb 10th, 2012, 3:06 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Someone asked about the availability of the documents I referred to in my post. They are all on the BMWLT website.

Go to the Files section of the website, then the Technical Documents section , and download from the first page: 1200LT Main Seal & Clutch Parts List, Changing a Main Seal and Clutch Slave Cylinder Guide (both by Kenny Crawford, alias “BlauBeeMr” - two excellent documents). Then go to page 4 of the Documents section and download the “Slave Drilling Procedure” (this was written by Kevin Cooke and posted on the website by Dan Martin).

Both documents make reference to the Clymer manual on the K1200LT (an excellent reference) and some reference to the BMW LT shop manual.

Dan Sullivan
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post #15 of 31 Old Feb 10th, 2012, 3:26 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Thank you All! I am having a new clutch, rear main seal, and tranny seals done this weekend for $950 by Josiah at Dirtball Customs in Scottsdale. Now i feel like i am getting a good deal.
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post #16 of 31 Old Feb 10th, 2012, 3:57 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiler
Thank you All! I am having a new clutch, rear main seal, and tranny seals done this weekend for $950 by Josiah at Dirtball Customs in Scottsdale. Now i feel like i am getting a good deal.
I dunno, I had the same work done on my previous (99) LT in 2003 at Ironhorse MC in Tucson and paid $2K +. While an independent mechanic is often less expensive on labor than a dealership, parts should be about the same. It has been a while and I no longer have the paperwork, but I thought the parts alone were close to $700 - $900. Good for you, if so Scott, cuz you got a helluva deal.

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post #17 of 31 Old Feb 10th, 2012, 7:20 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

I haven't ridden that far yet, but I've been to the clutch and back

From where I stand, why the clutch is slipping is merely a curiosity. Once I'm going that far in, it won't matter what I find wrong. I'm replacing the main seal, slave cylinder, drill the weep hole if it's not done, transmission seals, and the replaceable clutch parts along with whatever else looks bad. This will almost always make it a two session job just because I'll have to get unanticipated parts once I have it torn down.

It is nice to know if you actually repaired a problem, but mine was slipping with no visible failure and it was working when I put it back together and has been working for 15K miles. So whatever it was, I got it.

The parts aren't so expensive that I would want to reuse anything only to have it slip when you are done or have it fail shortly thereafter. It's not like there is some kind of test without putting the bike completely back together.

I have a thread where I detailed my clutch repair here.

Good luck!

Dan
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post #18 of 31 Old Feb 10th, 2012, 11:05 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Glenn
I live in Elmer 15 min ride to Blackwood would like to see what you get into .
Never had my lt or k100rt down that far to replace the clutch . I have had all
the tupperware off and on a lot . PM me your address or email me like to meet
you and other LT owners in SJ .
Thanks Ernie

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post #19 of 31 Old Feb 13th, 2012, 12:59 am
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Re, Do it yourself clutch Job. . .

Regarding clutch slippage, possible due to fluid contamination. First off,do you see fluid
leaking,dripping from the bottom rear motor area? If so get some of it on your fingertip.
See if it easily rinses off with just water, no soap. Motor or transmission oil will not rinse
off, but clutch /brake fluid will rinse off easily with just plain water. Tearing down an LT to
check for the cause of a slipping clutch is a lot of work, best to address all possible causes
while there, labor cost or time would would make it foolish not to. Most LT owners having a
reasonable amount of mechanical skill, some tools maybe a friend or two for support and a
generous amount of patients can preform the job in a weekend . But also keep in mind the shop or dealer must warranty their work for possible up to a year. You must provide your
own.
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post #20 of 31 Old Feb 25th, 2012, 6:02 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

I went to Max's today for some new tires and the Tech stated that he thought the clutch might be going. Not because any slippage but because for it to engage, he had to let the lever go almost all the way out. He stated that at 60K, the plate may have reached it's limit.

I guess because it has been going, I'm use to it. No slippage or loss of power while riding.

My question- should I do the preemptive repair/replacement or should I keep riding her until she begins to fail.

Rob V.B.
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post #21 of 31 Old Feb 25th, 2012, 7:37 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

I would say No, do not do a preemptive clutch replacement.

I put in a new plate because mine was slipping and had the same concern as you when I got it put back together. My engagement is right at the end of the clutch lever travel. Feels like there is hardly any travel left just as I reach full engagement. Very unnerving, but I've been assured by two dealers it is perfectly normal for the LT.

Also, that clutch was replaced at 36K and I could hardly tell the difference between the one I took out and the new one I put in. These don't really wear all that much.

If it starts slipping because of plate wear, you should get plenty of warning. I check it every now and again when I'm in a high gear I'll open up the throttle and make sure it doesn't slip. As long as it's holding, I wouldn't worry about it.

Good luck,

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post #22 of 31 Old Feb 25th, 2012, 9:17 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Keep riding it Rob. Periodically do a 5th gear "check" - get up to 3,500 to 4,000 rpm and hammer it. Once you get close to the wear limit she will usually slip once doing this but not a second time. At least that is what mine did. I kept riding for several months after she started doing that before I changed the clutch.

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post #23 of 31 Old Jun 9th, 2012, 9:45 am
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Well, the clutch finally went yesterday. Looks like I'll be spending some big time $$$.

I called Max's in CT, they gave me an estimate of 2k but can't look at her until 6/23 due to being swamped with S1000RR recalls. I called Goldcoast and they stated that they could't look at her until early July!

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RVB1019 is offline  
post #24 of 31 Old Jun 9th, 2012, 11:30 am
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Man..that's lot of money.
I only paid 4500 for my 00 lt.
I have no clue if anything has been done do it during the 74000 miles it has traveled.
But all is good so far.
I doubt I would spend that much on a clutch if it were to go.
Probably I would just parts it out.
I can't believe the amount of people that I run into that have never heard of a BMW bike!
People like checking it out..hold's me up at times though..lol.
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post #25 of 31 Old Jun 9th, 2012, 10:05 pm
Sac
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

John you mentioned poor clutch technique when pulling a trailor. What exactly does that mean.
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post #26 of 31 Old Jun 9th, 2012, 10:12 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVB1019
I went to Max's today for some new tires and the Tech stated that he thought the clutch might be going. Not because any slippage but because for it to engage, he had to let the lever go almost all the way out. He stated that at 60K, the plate may have reached it's limit.

I guess because it has been going, I'm use to it. No slippage or loss of power while riding.

My question- should I do the preemptive repair/replacement or should I keep riding her until she begins to fail.
think clutch in car - pedal near top 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch free play (mechanical action) - lever on bars will engage almost all the way out and hydraulic clutches even in cars have little free play

Gary
2018 R1200RT
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2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
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post #27 of 31 Old Jun 10th, 2012, 4:00 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by gary45
think clutch in car - pedal near top 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch free play (mechanical action) - lever on bars will engage almost all the way out and hydraulic clutches even in cars have little free play
Except the LT's clutch is backwards it is released from the front where cars are released from the rear. As the clutch wears the release rod moves to the rear and eventually pushes the slave piston all the way back to its mechanical stop. Then it becomes a self releasing clutch.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #28 of 31 Old Jun 10th, 2012, 4:33 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sac
John you mentioned poor clutch technique when pulling a trailor. What exactly does that mean.
I don't know what specifically John is referring to, but there are a couple of ways to fairly quickly trash a clutch. One way is to get it too hot, and the other is to slip it too much wearing out the disk quickly.

Starting out by reving the engine to 3,000+ RPM and then slowly engaging the clutch can generate a lot of heat. Even worse are people who use the clutch to hold a vehicle in place on a hill at a stop sign rather than using the brakes. This is probably the absolute worst way to abuse a clutch and get it smokin' hot.

The other way is to just slip the clutch frequently such as when riding in very slow traffic. This form of slippage seldom overheats the clutch as the engine RPMs are low and the duty cycle is such to allow some cooling time. However, the constant slippage will keep removing disk material until it is gone.

Proper clutch use is pretty straightforward.

1. Start out with as low an RPM as possible and engage the clutch gradally, but continually and smoothly. Rarely should the RPM be above 1,500 until the clutch is fully engaged. Obviously, starting out on a hill will require more as will the occasional need to make a quick start to say avoid getting rear-ended.

2. Don't ever continally slip a clutch. When in very slow traffic, I let a space of a couple of car lengths open up and then fully engage the clutch and idle up to the car ahead. I then fully disengage the clutch and coast to a stop, wait for a gap to open and repeat.

3. When downshifting, blip the throttle to match the RPM of the engine before engaging the clutch.

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post #29 of 31 Old Jun 10th, 2012, 5:25 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Except the LT's clutch is backwards it is released from the front where cars are released from the rear. As the clutch wears the release rod moves to the rear and eventually pushes the slave piston all the way back to its mechanical stop. Then it becomes a self releasing clutch.
I can see the fluid level rising in the master cylinder as the slave piston moves back but as in your hydraulic brakes the total amount of fluid in the system has no bearing on pedal or lever travel, just how healthy your pistons are, I also after 45 years driving and repairing German vehicles have a hard time believing they would design a system where the piston would bottom out until well after there was any usable friction material left on the friction disk.


apply your description to a hydraulic car clutch and it would not be long before you could not disengage the clutch especially, if as alluded to, hydraulic clutches are not self adjusting - those pistons have a stop as well

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
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post #30 of 31 Old Jun 10th, 2012, 7:53 pm
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by gary45
I can see the fluid level rising in the master cylinder as the slave piston moves back but as in your hydraulic brakes the total amount of fluid in the system has no bearing on pedal or lever travel, just how healthy your pistons are, I also after 45 years driving and repairing German vehicles have a hard time believing they would design a system where the piston would bottom out until well after there was any usable friction material left on the friction disk.


apply your description to a hydraulic car clutch and it would not be long before you could not disengage the clutch especially, if as alluded to, hydraulic clutches are not self adjusting - those pistons have a stop as well
OK I may have exagerated a bit but it is amazing that 1-2 mm of clutch plate wear relates to at least 20mm or more of release rod travel. When removing the slave from a worn clutch there is still pressure when the screws release from the tranny housing. In other words you have to compress the piston on the release rod just to get the bolts started. When installing the slave after the new clutch install the slave cylinder almost is fully seated in the housing. Made me think, at first , that I had left a part out.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #31 of 31 Old Jun 11th, 2012, 7:41 am
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Re: Bob's BMW Price For Clutch Job. . .

I bought my 03LTE used with 15.6K on the clock. The clutch slipped at 19K so I took it home and parked it. I was only 8 miles from home and no stops in between. I had lurked here long enough to know what was wrong. When I tore it down the copper fibers in the clutch were already coming out of the disc. The pressure plate wasn't in bad shape so I just replaced the disc and it worked great for another 60K+. I'd never stop at the trans when going in for a clutch. By then you are too close to turn back and have the hard part done. A few more bolts and you are there. It should be a piece of cake if you have a lift..............I didn't..........

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