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post #1 of 19 Old Mar 16th, 2006, 6:44 pm Thread Starter
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Spiegler Braided Brake Lines

While barbara was down for her leetle boo-boo and tore apart, I had the stainless steel, braided, plastic coated brake lines installed.

Man, what a difference!

Hank was telling me that with over a 100 thou on the clock that the rubber lines have degraded on the inside and start mushrooming under pressure. I can tell you that be the truth. The braking power is noticeably mucho viagra.

Looky here

I didn't get any fussy colors, just plain jane.

Also, I went down to Rhinewest today to have new skins slapped on my wheels. Once again, the over 100 thou thang, had new front wheel bearings put on. I don't know if I'd attempt this one at home as you can't just drive them out. You need a special puller, along with the application of judicious heat. I don't do anythang judiciously. The new bearings are supposed to tighten up the handling some. Dunno, as I haven't ridden her yet, well, except to back her out of the gearage and put her in her spot and she handled just fine then (was in just a pair of shorts and didn't feel like getting dressed up).



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post #2 of 19 Old Mar 16th, 2006, 6:53 pm
 
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Installing SS braided cables on my Ninja yielded approx. a 30% increase in brake lever feel. Six-pot calipers added another 70% over the stock 4 potters.
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post #3 of 19 Old Mar 16th, 2006, 6:59 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
While barbara was down for her leetle boo-boo and tore apart, I had the stainless steel, braided, plastic coated brake lines installed.

Man, what a difference!

Hank was telling me that with over a 100 thou on the clock that the rubber lines have degraded on the inside and start mushrooming under pressure. I can tell you that be the truth. The braking power is noticeably mucho viagra.

Looky here

I didn't get any fussy colors, just plain jane.

Also, I went down to Rhinewest today to have new skins slapped on my wheels. Once again, the over 100 thou thang, had new front wheel bearings put on. I don't know if I'd attempt this one at home as you can't just drive them out. You need a special puller, along with the application of judicious heat. I don't do anythang judiciously. The new bearings are supposed to tighten up the handling some. Dunno, as I haven't ridden her yet, well, except to back her out of the gearage and put her in her spot and she handled just fine then (was in just a pair of shorts and didn't feel like getting dressed up).
I dropped by Hank's place right after you left (dang, I missed out on your lunch tab!! ) and he verified that all is well with Toad after the brake line and throttle cable swap, so I'm good to go to the RTE tamale. I also axed him about a new front wheel bearing for Toad - he looked at the odo and nodded. Guess 107K is plenty!

BTW - I didn't realize Speigler made all those neat colors for their braided brake lines - I mighta gone for fuchia on the front and them new green ones for the back!!
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post #4 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 2:11 am
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About how much did a set of braided SS brake lines cost?

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post #5 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 2:40 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
About how much did a set of braided SS brake lines cost?
I know you're more interested in what the LT brake lines would cost . . . but just for some kind of reference, I paid about $70 for my 2 front SS lines for the ZX-11. I went with Goodridge, another good name for SS lines.
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post #6 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 7:51 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
About how much did a set of braided SS brake lines cost?
Around 250 bones. After riding with the new brake lines, they DID need replacing. I don't remember how she stopped when new, if the old lines had degraded slowly to the point of inferior stopping, or the new lines are extremely good.

It does go to reason that encasing rubber in braided stainless doesn't allow for expansion under pressure. Using said logic allows the twisted grey cortex to perambulate to the last reasoning.

Of course, strong braking may not be anything like y'all's linked, power brakes, but for a 2000 model I reckon it's purdy awesome.



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post #7 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 7:56 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
I know you're more interested in what the LT brake lines would cost . . . but just for some kind of reference, I paid about $70 for my 2 front SS lines for the ZX-11. I went with Goodridge, another good name for SS lines.
I believe Speigler is the only manufacturer making them for the LT at the time and this only after Hank called them and sent them an LT set to make from. Of course, for these fellers, it only boils down to taking some stock, making sure lengths and bends and curves work and attaching the correct ends. Whatever brand you use, it is good stuff and if you do it, be sure to use new banjo bolt washers everytime you bust one loose.

It prolly goes without saying that plastic encasing is also good stuff. Prevents a stainless steel, makeshift saw from installed on the bike



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post #8 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 10:16 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Around 250 bones. After riding with the new brake lines, they DID need replacing. I don't remember how she stopped when new, if the old lines had degraded slowly to the point of inferior stopping, or the new lines are extremely good.

It does go to reason that encasing rubber in braided stainless doesn't allow for expansion under pressure. Using said logic allows the twisted grey cortex to perambulate to the last reasoning.

Of course, strong braking may not be anything like y'all's linked, power brakes, but for a 2000 model I reckon it's purdy awesome.
Hey Grif:

I hate to burst your bubble (hose?)...

From my understanding the major thing steel braiding does is protect the lines from cuts/chafing and to a minor degree help in reduced expansion only under extreme braking - and add a certain bit of panache. One thing also to be aware of: dirt can work it's way in between the braiding and hose and cause abrasion - a potential failure point that you can't see - and a big problem for motorcycles where hose is constantly exposed to road grit and especially in rain. As soon as the clear protector wears through on rub points or cracking just from UV exposure/ageing/flexing you have an entry point for grit.

However - I am not an expert in brake lines and did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

I think you would have felt the same "like new" feeling from BMW OEM lines - but they sure aren't as purty and probably cost as much!


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post #9 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 10:35 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
While barbara was down for her leetle boo-boo and tore apart, I had the stainless steel, braided, plastic coated brake lines installed.

Man, what a difference!

Hank was telling me that with over a 100 thou on the clock that the rubber lines have degraded on the inside and start mushrooming under pressure. I can tell you that be the truth. The braking power is noticeably mucho viagra.

Looky here

I didn't get any fussy colors, just plain jane.

Also, I went down to Rhinewest today to have new skins slapped on my wheels. Once again, the over 100 thou thang, had new front wheel bearings put on. I don't know if I'd attempt this one at home as you can't just drive them out. You need a special puller, along with the application of judicious heat. I don't do anythang judiciously. The new bearings are supposed to tighten up the handling some. Dunno, as I haven't ridden her yet, well, except to back her out of the gearage and put her in her spot and she handled just fine then (was in just a pair of shorts and didn't feel like getting dressed up).
Braided brake lines -- more new info to this newbie. Thanks for the link. And, they make some other cool stuff, too. I feel certain Joe will be looking to get the frame sliders, clutch sliders, mirror sliders, cupholder slider, and any other kind of slider. Then he'll put the same on his Ninja.

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post #10 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 10:58 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
From my understanding the major thing steel braiding does is to protect the lines from cuts/chafing - and add a certain bit of panache.
Sorry Ron. That is incorrect. Braided lines are all about avoid line expansion...therefore loosing brake lever feel AND pressure to the calipers. I installed braided lines on a buddy's bike. The first time he came to a stop sign, he just about flew over the handlebars, locking up the front wheel. Braided lines are all about function . . . not form, or chafing. Which I do understand that you have a problem with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Braided brake lines -- more new info to this newbie.
I'll show them to you soon. As for sliders, those are only for guys that . . . er . . . slide.
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post #11 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 11:59 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Sorry Ron. That is incorrect. Braided lines are all about avoid line expansion...therefore loosing brake lever feel AND pressure to the calipers. I installed braided lines on a buddy's bike. The first time he came to a stop sign, he just about flew over the handlebars, locking up the front wheel. Braided lines are all about function . . . not form, or chafing. Which I do understand that you have a problem with.


I'll show them to you soon. As for sliders, those are only for guys that . . . er . . . slide.
Nah, Joe. I beg to differ. Time for a little "urban myth" debunking that you can file in the same rotary refuse container next to your desk as cell phones causing gasoline station fires. This used to come up all the time when I was autocrossing.

The only reason your buddy just about ate it was due to the new polymer inside the hose not being as compliant as the old one, and the simple fact that the id of the new hoses is smaller than the old ones - creating higher pressure and firmer lever feel. (less volume will be required at a given pressure) Brake hoses - like just about all hoses - wear out from the inside. He was used to the feel of the older larger volume - and yes, "mushy" hose, and his muscle memory told him "here is how much to squeeze" to get the desired effect. Simply put - his new hoses were more efficient than the old ones, and his entire braking system reacted maybe a nano second or two faster to his input than before. It had nothing to do with the ss mesh covering...

The braided mesh comes 95% into play only when you are doing repeated, hard, full on braking such as in racing where you are pushing upwards of 3,000 psi - where everything gets heated up pretty good and starts expanding - including the brake fluid. At this point the mesh works to retain the "feel" that the hose (and also the brake lever) had at lower temperatures by preventing any additional expansion. This allows consistent feedback to the driver - and we all know that superior braking is what wins races.

New hoses (and especially steel braided ones) are much stiffer as well, because they have not been flexed/aged/gone through heat up cool down cycles thousands of times. Stiffer is not always better and can cause big problems depending on the physical installation.

I like Gold Bond Medicated Powder for my butt chafing problems - and stainless steel for my brake hose chafing problems - but only on my RX-7.

Unless you are road racing your LT there is no benefit to ss braided lines - you are not going to stop any faster and indeed may experience a loss of modulation and feel - which of course is critical to our front wheel.

I do like the "bling" aspect however!


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post #12 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 4:30 pm Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RonKMiller
Hey Grif:

I hate to burst your bubble (hose?)...

From my understanding the major thing steel braiding does is protect the lines from cuts/chafing and to a minor degree help in reduced expansion only under extreme braking - and add a certain bit of panache. One thing also to be aware of: dirt can work it's way in between the braiding and hose and cause abrasion - a potential failure point that you can't see - and a big problem for motorcycles where hose is constantly exposed to road grit and especially in rain. As soon as the clear protector wears through on rub points or cracking just from UV exposure/ageing/flexing you have an entry point for grit.

However - I am not an expert in brake lines and did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

I think you would have felt the same "like new" feeling from BMW OEM lines - but they sure aren't as purty and probably cost as much!
Well, ok, I just know she stops better. Mayhaps y'all with over 100 thou on the clock can save some bucks with OEM. Just replace your old hoses fer cry eye.

I don't feel like I flushed 250 bucks, so there



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post #13 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 4:41 pm
 
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I don't feel like I flushed 250 bucks, so there
Should I hold Ron down while you woop em? Or you wanna hold him for me?!

Then again...you and I could go for a ride and I'll have my 9-year-old daughter handle him!
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post #14 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 6:16 pm
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Originally Posted by meese
About how much did a set of braided SS brake lines cost?
When you follow their prompts it shows the full set for ABS equipped bike, 6 lines, $234.00

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post #15 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 6:35 pm
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Originally Posted by grifscoots
Well, ok, I just know she stops better. Mayhaps y'all with over 100 thou on the clock can save some bucks with OEM. Just replace your old hoses fer cry eye.

I don't feel like I flushed 250 bucks, so there
And no doubt Barbara looks like a million bucks - and so do you Big Guy!

(do you still have dreams about orange shag carpet?)

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post #16 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 6:57 pm
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Originally Posted by messenger13
Should I hold Ron down while you woop em? Or you wanna hold him for me?!

Then again...you and I could go for a ride and I'll have my 9-year-old daughter handle him!
I LIKE IT!


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post #17 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 7:08 pm Thread Starter
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I gots yo orange shag!!

And I know the braided lines are probably a smoke and curtain show like the Remus and chip


Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
And no doubt Barbara looks like a million bucks - and so do you Big Guy!

(do you still have dreams about orange shag carpet?)

Duckin' and weavin' already... 'cause I know yer goin' to git me when I least expect it!


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post #18 of 19 Old Mar 17th, 2006, 7:11 pm Thread Starter
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Then again...you and I could go for a ride and I'll have my 9-year-old daughter handle him!
Funny you should say that, my biggest threat is to sic one of my daughter's. Then again, you've never met my daughter's. Rabid, pit-bull chihuahua's they can be be.



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post #19 of 19 Old Apr 15th, 2006, 6:46 pm
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According to Spiegler's website they state that your OEM brake lines should be replaced every 4 years...but with their ss lines you get a life time warranty. So, if you plan on keeping the bike, it sounds like money well spent...treat yourself to a new farkle every 4 years.

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