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post #1 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 6:11 am Thread Starter
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Cool Changes over production

I've looked in the FAQ's, if I've missed something obvious, mea cupla, please point me in the right direction.

I've been researching LT's as my next bike, and what I'm finding (not unusual for motorcycles) is that there are a bunch of early models with low mileage available. (I'm looking at a 2000 with 14,000 miles on the clock, and anotheer 2003 with 30k)

I know the powered center stand was introduced later (2005?) but are there other gotchas, anything that would make it important to look for a 45,000 mile 2006 bike, rather than a 14,000 mile 2000 bike? (or a $4500 1999 with 100,000 miles...although that's WAY outside my comfort zone.)
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post #2 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 8:05 am
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Re: Changes over production

I had the same question when I bought my LT 2 months ago. Finally, what made me buy the LT right now is that there are so many people here switching from the LT to the new 1600. Lots of offers on a rather restricted market. So when I found a black 2006 with some 17'000 miles, I started to

As for the gotcha's, I think nothing fundamental changed since 2005, but I'm not sure.
Paul

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post #3 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 8:31 am
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Re: Changes over production

Mike (from your profile...?)

Here's a quick summary of the changes, most of which happened in '05.

In 2002 the model incorporated the power servo assisted brakes along with ABS.

2005
Power center stand
16 more HP
change in fork angle to enhance slow speed handling
LCD instrument display which incorporated a number of previously scattered gauges
Dual headlights
Tall windshield became the "standard" factory shield, and the short, the option.

For a bit of time around '07, '08 BMW included the Voice II intercom as factory equipment.
They also added the Navigator III GPS prep kit as an installed item.
For '09 they removed the Voice II from the standard equipment list. Late in the sales run a promotion paid dealers to install it for no additional charge.

Around '07 or '08 the Soft Touch < more plush> seat, became the standard equipment rather than an option.

About the same time the Zenon low beam went from an option to standard equipment.

Around '07 most bikes no longer came with the 6 disk CD changer in the right bag. Most folks with an installed intercom were using iPods by then.

Those are the main points as I recall them.

BTW....I'm one of the folks here that kinda prefer the early LTs. Brakes are less complicated, fewer gizmos to worry about. But, that said, the power center stand, better headlight, and often, an installed well integrated intercom can be great features.

Bottom line is any decent condition, affordable K12LT is a great ride....

JD

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post #4 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 8:46 am
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Re: Changes over production

That's a great summary.... Thank you as I am also looking at this time.

I had a 1999 LT LUX... That's with all the gizmos here in Europe.....

For me, the most important point you raised here is the increased head angle to improve slow speed manoeuvrability. Can anyone tell me what the before and after angles were and whether this made a significant difference/improvement?

Thank you

Stuart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamrider
Mike (from your profile...?)

Here's a quick summary of the changes, most of which happened in '05.

In 2002 the model incorporated the power servo assisted brakes along with ABS.

2005
Power center stand
16 more HP
change in fork angle to enhance slow speed handling
LCD instrument display which incorporated a number of previously scattered gauges
Dual headlights
Tall windshield became the "standard" factory shield, and the short, the option.

For a bit of time around '07, '08 BMW included the Voice II intercom as factory equipment.
They also added the Navigator III GPS prep kit as an installed item.
For '09 they removed the Voice II from the standard equipment list. Late in the sales run a promotion paid dealers to install it for no additional charge.

Around '07 or '08 the Soft Touch < more plush> seat, became the standard equipment rather than an option.

About the same time the Zenon low beam went from an option to standard equipment.

Around '07 most bikes no longer came with the 6 disk CD changer in the right bag. Most folks with an installed intercom were using iPods by then.

Those are the main points as I recall them.

BTW....I'm one of the folks here that kinda prefer the early LTs. Brakes are less complicated, fewer gizmos to worry about. But, that said, the power center stand, better headlight, and often, an installed well integrated intercom can be great features.

Bottom line is any decent condition, affordable K12LT is a great ride....

JD

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post #5 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 8:55 am
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Re: Changes over production

Close. The servo assisted brakes were actually introduced in the US 2001 model year, sort of. It depends on the production date on an '01 as to whether they have assisted or un-assisted brakes. '01's mfg on or after Jan1, 2001 have assisted brakes and have BMW cast into the brake calipers. My '01, mfg in Sept. 2000 has non servo brakes and the casting on the calipers is BREMBO. Just the way I like it!

A quick search on the forum will give you the pros and cons of each. I will gladly stick with the Brembos on my OLD 2001.

Loren

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post #6 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 8:58 am Thread Starter
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Re: Changes over production

Thanks, roamrider, if that's not already somewhere in a FAQ, it oughta be!

(now where to test drive a Pre and post 2005 model.
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post #7 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 9:11 am
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Re: Changes over production

Also, the 99, 00, and 01 bikes were no linked or integrated brakes. Perhaps that is obvious, but just thought I would throw that in.
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post #8 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 9:17 am
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by wa1200lt
Close. The servo assisted brakes were actually introduced in the US 2001 model year, sort of. It depends on the production date on an '01 as to whether they have assisted or un-assisted brakes. '01's mfg on or after Jan1, 2001 have assisted brakes and have BMW cast into the brake calipers. My '01, mfg in Sept. 2000 has non servo brakes and the casting on the calipers is BREMBO. Just the way I like it!
Loren
Loren,

Good catch. Thanks for the correction.... Since virtually all the other US BMW models, like the RTs, etc. had the servo brakes added in their '02 model years, I had that in my head as the "universal" change year.

JD

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post #9 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 10:48 am
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled

I've been researching LT's as my next bike, and what I'm finding (not unusual for motorcycles) is that there are a bunch of early models with low mileage available. (I'm looking at a 2000 with 14,000 miles on the clock, and anotheer 2003 with 30k)
There are lots of high mileage LTs around and there are also some really nice low mileage 'garage queens'. The key point to keep in mind is the service intervals and extras. IMHO a high mileage LT that has all it's service and high $ extras like Ohlins, and 'extra' service procedures like brake line upgrades and 'weep hole' drilling is a better buy than a low milage 'garage queen'.

Figure the costs of all the services that you need to catch up on, plus tires and that low mileage LT goes up in price substantially. That $ amount can be reduced if you do your own service. However you cannot ignore them.

Jack D. (Southern Connecticut)
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post #10 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 11:27 am
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcanara
For me, the most important point you raised here is the increased head angle to improve slow speed manoeuvrability. Can anyone tell me what the before and after angles were and whether this made a significant difference/improvement?

Thank you

Stuart
At one point I got a great deal on an 05 LT and still had my 03 LT for sale. When riding both bikes on the same day I could immediately feel the difference in stability at low speed, with the wobble almost gone on the 05. I hope this helps!

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post #11 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 11:36 am
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
At one point I got a great deal on an 05 LT and still had my 03 LT for sale. When riding both bikes on the same day I could immediately feel the difference in stability at low speed, with the wobble almost gone on the 05. I hope this helps!
It sure does..... Thank you

Stuart

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post #12 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 11:49 am
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by pagl57
Finally, what made me buy the LT right now is that there are so many people here switching from the LT to the new 1600.
Interesting comment. Any idea about a percentage of how many LT riders switched to the new 1600???????

I just can say, that most of the LT riders don`t go for the 1600 here in Germany.

They are happy with that what they have. Means a big Luxury Touring bike

The 1600 sells pretty good in Germany.

best regards from Bavaria

Rudy
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The European Motorcycle Touring Community
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post #13 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 12:21 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
At one point I got a great deal on an 05 LT and still had my 03 LT for sale. When riding both bikes on the same day I could immediately feel the difference in stability at low speed, with the wobble almost gone on the 05. I hope this helps!

Did it make any difference at any other speeds? With sportscars, what's good for low speed auto crosses (fewer turns lock to lock) is bad for high speed stuff (makes for a twitchy car)
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post #14 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 5:29 pm
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Re: Changes over production

High speed is not affected.

Looking at a 2000 with low mileage means that service was probably not done annually (mostly brake fluid changes each year as well as two coolant changes) so that means it has likely had only two service looks in 11 YEARS. Also that 2000 was likely made in 99 and the hoses were built in 98 which means they are all almost 14 years old and should be replaced.

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #15 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 7:24 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Also that 2000 was likely made in 99 and the hoses were built in 98 which means they are all almost 14 years old and should be replaced.
Seriously? That's not something I'd expect from a lightly used car. While I know BMW lists doing several things annually for maintenance, they're not using magic fluids. It's the same brake fluid and coolant everyone else uses, give or take.

Or am I missing out on something...like the hoses are thin to lower weight?

ETA: The low mileage bike in question is being sold by a son, it was his father's, who passed away. It's in Colorado, so stuff like saltwater corrosion isn't a factor.
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post #16 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 7:47 pm
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled
Thanks, roamrider, if that's not already somewhere in a FAQ, it oughta be!

(now where to test drive a Pre and post 2005 model.
Foothills BMW in Lakewood, had a 05 on the floor for sale a couple weeks ago. I bought an 07 LT from there in Aug. Good people to work with.
Just checked and it's still there. 35K on the mileage for 10,800. It's metallic blue.

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post #17 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 8:33 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyK12LT
Foothills BMW in Lakewood, had a 05 on the floor for sale a couple weeks ago. I bought an 07 LT from there in Aug. Good people to work with.
Just checked and it's still there. 35K on the mileage for 10,800. It's metallic blue.
That's still a bit steep. BMW of Aurora had one for $10,500 with 30k on the clock, Fay Meyers had one for $9k....KBB had them valued at $7000.

I paid dealer prices for the last bike because it was my first ever and kinda needed some hand holding...I don't feel the pull this time, especially when there's possibly $4000 worth of blue sky in the deal.
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post #18 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 8:53 pm
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Re: Changes over production

You can find something in the 05 to 09 year model for around 8 to 10k with really low miles.I personally think those are good deals and if the bikes have bad tires and the owners don't have proof of services you can get them down a k or so then do the maintenance yourself to bring them up to date or at least get some peace of mind. It will be fun to ride the bike back up north after a purchase down here plus saving up to 4 thousand dollars.

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post #19 of 34 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 9:34 pm
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechanic
You can find something in the 05 to 09 year model for around 8 to 10k with really low miles.I personally think those are good deals and if the bikes have bad tires and the owners don't have proof of services you can get them down a k or so then do the maintenance yourself to bring them up to date or at least get some peace of mind. It will be fun to ride the bike back up north after a purchase down here plus saving up to 4 thousand dollars.
09 for 10K?

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post #20 of 34 Old Nov 18th, 2011, 3:36 am
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winghunter
Interesting comment. Any idea about a percentage of how many LT riders switched to the new 1600???????
I just can say, that most of the LT riders don`t go for the 1600 here in Germany.
They are happy with that what they have. Means a big Luxury Touring bike

The 1600 sells pretty good in Germany.
Hi Winghunter,
I don't have any 'scientific' numbers, but:
1. I remember from the motorradhandel.ch website;
- early June 2010, there were some 12-14 LT's for sale,
- during winter: 15-17 LT's.
- in June 2011, some 19-20 LT's,
- in September when i bought mine, 23 for sale
- now (today) 25 for sale.
So the number of LT's for sale has climbed strongly this year and almost doubled since June last year.
2. From the 4 persons I contacted for buying mine, 1 was waiting for his K16 to be delivered and 2 were ordering their bike for spring 2012. The 4th one was stopping biking.

I would say the 1600 sells pretty good here too. But BMW Switzerland, during the last months, lowered the price substantially just to compensate for the sinking Euro. Too many people were importing their bikes from Germany or France...

Have a nice day!
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post #21 of 34 Old Nov 18th, 2011, 6:36 am
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Re: Changes over production

Thats interesting. Thanks Paul!!!

best regards from Bavaria

Rudy
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post #22 of 34 Old Nov 18th, 2011, 11:50 am
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled
Seriously? That's not something I'd expect from a lightly used car. While I know BMW lists doing several things annually for maintenance, they're not using magic fluids. It's the same brake fluid and coolant everyone else uses, give or take.

Or am I missing out on something...like the hoses are thin to lower weight?

ETA: The low mileage bike in question is being sold by a son, it was his father's, who passed away. It's in Colorado, so stuff like saltwater corrosion isn't a factor.
Light use has nothing to do with deterioration of rubber hoses. It is AGE and anyone on an LT that still has the stock hoses in the brake system on a 2000 is riding on borrowed time. It is not a matter of "if" it will fail but rather "when". Most hoses have a life of five years. Sure I'll hear that "I had one last 20 years" from someone but that does not prove a thing other than they were lucky.

Saltwater is not an issue but did they perform the annual brake system flushes? If not then there has been contaminated brake fuild, full of moisture, sitting in the system causing corrosion. Not a big problem as the ABS unit for that year is not a complicated one (but still $$$) and should survive that. But I would be ready to replace all the lines with Speigler replacements to be safe.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #23 of 34 Old Nov 18th, 2011, 12:05 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Light use has nothing to do with deterioration of rubber hoses. It is AGE and anyone on an LT that still has the stock hoses in the brake system on a 2000 is riding on borrowed time. It is not a matter of "if" it will fail but rather "when". Most hoses have a life of five years. Sure I'll hear that "I had one last 20 years" from someone but that does not prove a thing other than they were lucky.
Is that a motorcycle specific thing? Honestly, that's VERY different to my experiences in cars. Heck, 'leaking coolant' gets a great big goose egg on the search engine for this site.

Quote:
Saltwater is not an issue but did they perform the annual brake system flushes? If not then there has been contaminated brake fuild, full of moisture, sitting in the system causing corrosion. Not a big problem as the ABS unit for that year is not a complicated one (but still $$$) and should survive that. But I would be ready to replace all the lines with Speigler replacements to be safe.
I'm all over a potential flushing of the system. That's no big deal, it's just that I'm seeing in the BMW maintenance schedule a lot of things that, while they're great for the labor rate for the Service Bay, don't jive with my experiences elsewhere. Especially in a sunny wheather only, stored in a covered garage, type vehicle like these bikes tend to be.

A daily driven, year round, 8 year old vehicle? Yeah, that'll have crappy fluid in it. With brake fluid being hyroscopic, I can see some moisture being pulled in, which would result in spongy brakes...but you can detect that in a test drive, and even if the fluid is seriously nasty...it can be addressed the first weekend you own the bike.

Which all gets back to the initial question:
Is an 11 year old 15,000 mile bike a _bad_ deal? At what price?
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post #24 of 34 Old Nov 18th, 2011, 6:24 pm
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled
Which all gets back to the initial question:
Is an 11 year old 15,000 mile bike a _bad_ deal? At what price?
Your asking people here, generally M/C enthusiasts, on a manufacturer specific forum, if they recommend doing the 'manufacturer' recommended service intervals on the bikes that they ride. I think you will get a straight 'yes', from this group. If you hang here, you will find that a good percentage of the people who respond to posts are high mileage enthusiastic riders. That is why we tend to want to do the service, so the 'machine' won't break going cross country. It is not uncommon here for posters here to have between 100 to 200K on their trusty steed. Even the oldest LT is 12 years old so 15K a year is 3 times the normal yearly mileage considered 'normal' in KBB. Even a 12 year old '4-wheeler' can't make those numbers reliably without maintenance. If your going to use the bike on Sunday afternoon for 50 to 100 miles 15 or 20 times a year you can slide with maintenance just as you can with a car. Maybe the 11 year old LT is such a M/C.

The BMW dealer network is not in every other town and these bikes are complicated enough so that you can't pop into your local M/C dealer and get a 'won't start' problem fixed.

OK.. your question..

Is an 11 year old 15,000 mile bike a _bad_ deal? At what price?

My question to you...

How long do you plan to own this LT and how many miles do you estimate you will put on this LT before you move on? Are you planning any big cross country trips?

That is basically what we are saying. If the bike is older it still needs the maintenance. Whether it is the cooling system, braking system, valve timing, suspension, or clutch circuit long term reliability depends on the maintenance. If your not into long term then you should be able to answer the question yourself. Then it just fits your checkbook better and it is a good deal...

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post #25 of 34 Old Nov 18th, 2011, 7:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackd
Your asking people here, generally M/C enthusiasts, on a manufacturer specific forum, if they recommend doing the 'manufacturer' recommended service intervals on the bikes that they ride. I think you will get a straight 'yes', from this group. If you hang here, you will find that a good percentage of the people who respond to posts are high mileage enthusiastic riders. That is why we tend to want to do the service, so the 'machine' won't break going cross country. It is not uncommon here for posters here to have between 100 to 200K on their trusty steed. Even the oldest LT is 12 years old so 15K a year is 3 times the normal yearly mileage considered 'normal' in KBB. Even a 12 year old '4-wheeler' can't make those numbers reliably without maintenance. If your going to use the bike on Sunday afternoon for 50 to 100 miles 15 or 20 times a year you can slide with maintenance just as you can with a car. Maybe the 11 year old LT is such a M/C.
I'm not a 15k miler...not at this phase of my life. That pesky day job gets in the way of that. What I _am_ is a fairly expert mechanic and machinist. I've built a Hot Rod stem to stern, only leaving the most critical parts to more expert hands. (I built up the motor from the long block, I R&R'd the valvebody in the transmission while leaning over the transmission guy's shoulder while he did the rest. I've burned PROMS, and turned metal in that project. So, mechanically, I'd say I was 'aware'.

If a bike were to need work, there's a much better than average chance I'd attempt the repair myself. I've seen issues with low mile vehicles...leaking gaskets and the like, and _some_ of those problems go away with use.

Looking here: http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...7&rnd=03252011

Swapping hoses would cost my time and about $100 in hoses...probably $150 all told when you include clamps and coolant.

In my mind...that's not such a bad deal. I don't count the labor, because I _enjoy_ the learning experience.

But I'd also submit I'm not the usual person to ask these questions. The average hands-off fella might 'save money' buying an older bike, only to lose it with $600 in tires, $800 in Coolant System repairs, and $600 in Brakework...not such a good deal.

(yes, I've read up on the tupperwear. It don't scare me. I've worked on this: http://www.millertwinracing.com/BelfrysBest/ )

How long am I buying the bike for? I dunno. The current Honda is boring me after a year and 6000 miles. OR rather, I'd LOVE to keep it, because it's fun in it's own way, but can't afford two bikes.
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post #26 of 34 Old Nov 19th, 2011, 9:14 am
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled
Is that a motorcycle specific thing? Honestly, that's VERY different to my experiences in cars. Heck, 'leaking coolant' gets a great big goose egg on the search engine for this site.
No it applies to ALL brake hoses. I have had several fail on me, granted it was on a MGA and MGB. There have been many posts here on pre 2001 bikes with hose failures.



Quote:
A daily driven, year round, 8 year old vehicle? Yeah, that'll have crappy fluid in it. With brake fluid being hyroscopic, I can see some moisture being pulled in, which would result in spongy brakes...but you can detect that in a test drive, and even if the fluid is seriously nasty...it can be addressed the first weekend you own the bike.
True but by then you have most likey damaged a $2,500 ABS unit. Not a big deal on pre 2001 as you can remove it from the system and still have good , non-ABS brakes. Not so on post 2000.


Quote:
Which all gets back to the initial question:
Is an 11 year old 15,000 mile bike a _bad_ deal? At what price?
No just recommended some things you could face so you would not be surprized.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #27 of 34 Old Nov 19th, 2011, 9:11 pm
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Re: Changes over production

I'm trying to post but I'm having difficulty. I will repost later.. ????

Now I will try to edit this post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled
I'm not a 15k miler...not at this phase of my life. That pesky day job gets in the way of that. What I _am_ is a fairly expert mechanic and machinist.
OK... now we have something to work with. Since you can handle a wrench and do not have to pay the outrageous shop prices and deal with the service dept, I'm leaning towards the 2000. IMHO you will need to do things that could cost you $2K to $3K to bring that 2000 up to snuff (paying shop prices). Obvious if you are paying shop prices the 2000 is now not a good deal. Besides there is lots of help here and you might be able to arrange a garage session with someone here that is local to you. You probably would not want it since you are a fairly expert mechanic, by your own words, but we are here....

You need to do a 24K service (6, 12 and 24 all in one), and a two year service (all fluids), change the brake lines (to Speigler not BMW), change the clutch slave, it's seals and fiber wiper, drill the weep hole while you are doing the slave, change the transmission output seal while you are doing the slave, change the tires, probably change the battery. Check for any seal leaks as best you can. Engine output seal and transmission input shaft seal will take out the dry clutch. There is a procedure to put a inspection hole in the bell housing to check for oil leaking. You can check for correct transmission level very easily but not engine oil.

You can change the coolant hoses but I have not heard of coolant hoses being a problem. It's not actually easy because there are two radiators and the hoses are really inside...

Additional stuff...

Shocks are usually good for 30K to 45K, however some people feel that are shot out the door at delivery.
Change the stock low beam headlight lamp to HID. Halogen stock is inadequate.

Why...

The early clutch slaves had a 45K life expectancy and it was an early recommendation from people here to get it out before 50K at the latest. If the slave bearing goes, and it does it takes out the seal and the fluid follows the activation rod to the dry clutch and fails it. Guess what happened.. the new design doesn't seem to fail and was put into production somewhere near the late '03 model year.

[QUOTE=Rocketsled] my mind...that's not such a bad deal. I don't count the labor, because I _enjoy_ the learning experience. {/QUOTE]

You will also gain lots of experience and not have to rely on anyone on the road for minor repairs.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled
I'd also submit I'm not the usual person to ask these questions. The average hands-off fella might 'save money' buying an older bike, only to lose it with $600 in tires, $800 in Coolant System repairs, and $600 in Brakework...not such a good deal.
Exactly why I feel that the 2000 might be a good buy. However the 2000 needs to have to have a good going over before you take on the project. You first need to look at the inspection ports in each master cylinder and make sure the fluid id not too dark. I would also check the antifreeze and make sure it was up to level in the expansion tank and that it has antifreeze in the fluid. You need to see if there is ABS problems.. i.e. start and ride the LT with no checks.. multiple key off and ons and ride offs so the start up and functional diagnostics run error free.. an ABS control module will cast $2200 (new) with you doing the labor. Make sure the clutch is not slipping now.

A few things....

Also remember that the '05 and newer has power brakes, power center stand and is easier to handle slow speed if you are height challenged.. Downside is BMW does not recommend use of radial tires on '05 and newer... Power brakes go out you have no brakes to speak of..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled
long am I buying the bike for? I dunno. The current Honda is boring me after a year and 6000 miles. OR rather, I'd LOVE to keep it, because it's fun in it's own way, but can't afford two bikes.
I tend to keep bikes for 50 to 60K but I found this one is so much fun to ride that it has 95K and if I can get past my current ABS problems it will be good for another year or three.... This LT is really a fun bike to ride, IMO.

Why do I like the early early '01 and previous editions... The ABS II is easier to work on than the Integral ABS vintage and later. Should you have a problem you would have the same brakes minus ABS so you can fix it later and not while you are on tour.

I would look to make sure the LT was at least an LTC and IMO it's preferable that it be an LTE, so you have all the features that were available from the showroom. I would also look to see if it was every flatbed or hook towed. Improper towing tie down will bend handlebars or damage frame... or both. Frame damaged bike not worth $100 except to part it out.

Maybe someone will recommend something else????

If I haven't scared you away yet... Welcome...

Jack D. (Southern Connecticut)
2001 Black LTC
2015 Blue R1200GSA
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post #28 of 34 Old Nov 19th, 2011, 9:14 pm
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Re: Changes over production

I'm not seeing my previous post... Can anyone see it ... quite long.

Jack D. (Southern Connecticut)
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2015 Blue R1200GSA
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post #29 of 34 Old Nov 19th, 2011, 9:21 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Changes over production

Before they ate it, the Forum Hamsters managed to email me...you said:

[quote=jackd]OK... now we have something to work with. Since you can handle a wrench and do not have to pay the outrageous shop prices and deal with the service dept, I'm leaning towards the 2000. IMHO you will need to do things that could cost you $2K to $3K to bring that 2000 up to snuff (paying shop prices). Obvious if you are paying shop prices the 2000 is now not a good deal. Besides there is lots of help here and you might be able to arrange a garage session with someone here that is local to you. You probably would not want it since you are a fairly expert mechanic, by your own words, but we are here....

You need to do a 24K service (6, 12 and 24 all in one), and a two year service (all fluids), change the brake lines (to Speigler not BMW), change the clutch slave, it's seals and fiber wiper, drill the weep hole while you are doing the slave, change the transmission output seal while you are doing the slave, change the tires, probably change the battery. Check for any seal leaks as best you can. Engine output seal and transmission input shaft seal will take out the dry clutch. There is a procedure to put a inspection hole in the bell housing to check for oil leaking. You can check for correct transmission level very easily but not engine oil.

You can change the coolant hoses but I have not heard of coolant hoses being a problem. It's not actually easy because there are two radiators and the hoses are really inside...

Additional stuff...

Shocks are usually good for 30K to 45K, however some people feel that are shot out the door at delivery.
Change the stock low beam headlight lamp to HID. Halogen stock is inadequate.

Why...

The early clutch slaves had a 45K life expectancy and it was an early recommendation from people here to get it out before 50K at the latest. If the slave bearing goes, and it does it takes out the seal and the fluid follows the activation rod to the dry clutch and fails it. Guess what happened.. the new design doesn't seem to fail and was put into production somewhere near the late '03 model year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled
my mind...that's not such a bad deal. I don't count the labor, because I _enjoy_ the learning experience. {/QUOTE]

You will also gain lots of experience and not have to rely on anyone on the road for minor repairs.....



Exactly why I feel that the 2000 might be a good buy. However the 2000 needs to have to have a good going over before you take on the project. You first need to look at the inspection ports in each master cylinder and make sure the fluid id not too dark. I would also check the antifreeze and make sure it was up to level in the expansion tank and that it has antifreeze in the fluid. You need to see if there is ABS problems.. i.e. start and ride the LT with no checks.. multiple key off and ons and ride offs so the start up and functional diagnostics run error free.. an ABS control module will cast $2200 (new) with you doing the labor. Make sure the clutch is not slipping now.

A few things....

Also remember that the '05 and newer has power brakes, power center stand and is easier to handle slow speed if you are height challenged.. Downside is BMW does not recommend use of radial tires on '05 and newer... Power brakes go out you have no brakes to speak of..



I tend to keep bikes for 50 to 60K but I found this one is so much fun to ride that it has 95K and if I can get past my current ABS problems it will be good for another year or three.... This LT is really a fun bike to ride, IMO.

Why do I like the early early '01 and previous editions... The ABS II is easier to work on than the Integral ABS vintage and later. Should you have a problem you would have the same brakes minus ABS so you can fix it later and not while you are on tour.

I would look to make sure the LT was at least an LTC and IMO it's preferable that it be an LTE, so you have all the features that were available from the showroom. I would also look to see if it was every flatbed or hook towed. Improper towing tie down will bend handlebars or damage frame... or both. Frame damaged bike not worth $100 except to part it out.

Maybe someone will recommend something else????

If I haven't scared you away yet... Welcome...
My only response to that is: If these things REALLY required that much effort, they'd be british, with Lucas electrics. Right? Because that sounds like AMF Harley levels of reliability.
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post #30 of 34 Old Nov 19th, 2011, 9:26 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Changes over production

FWIW, here's the schedule for the 1300 VTX...notice the large number of 'inspects', and the fairly small number of 'replace's'

http://www.vtx1300tips.com/vtx_1300_...e_schedule.htm
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post #31 of 34 Old Nov 20th, 2011, 7:42 am
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Re: Changes over production

I bought my 03 K1200LTE with 15,691 on the clock back in 11/06. It had a week left on the warranty but I knew I was capable of working on it myself. Sure enough at 19K the clutch went due to a slave leak. I got my manual and some pages from the HOW section here and went to work. I even bought the parts from a member of this forum. After stripping it down to the frame, motor and front tire I looked at it and wondered if I had bitten off more than I could chew. But I put it all back together and it worked great. I felt I really owned the bike after that. I put 60K on it after that and clutch was still good. It's the only bike I ever kept past the 2 year threshold of "getting bored with it". It's the only bike I ever owned that I never considered selling or trading. A couple of deer made that decision for me.
I went back to a cruiser thinking I could be happy with that again and I wouldn't have hundreds of screws to pull when I had to work on it..............WROOOOOOOONNNNGGGGG!!!
After a year I realized how much I missed my LT. It took a year but I finally found a low mileage 05 LT and bought it. I couldn't believe how great it handled compared to the 03. I was simply amazed. It wasn't just a little improvement it was a HUGE improvement. The centerstand thing is great, too, so far.
Maintenance is not as big a deal as it was made out to be. I put it off for a long time and when I did get around to the valve check and the ABS fluid change I realized it was much easier that I was led to believe by the posts here. And the enjoyment this bike has given me has far outweighed any hassle of maintaining it. Other than the fact that the stock seat sucks, this is a truly great bike.

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2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 2000
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post #32 of 34 Old Nov 20th, 2011, 12:52 pm
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled
FWIW, here's the schedule for the 1300 VTX...notice the large number of 'inspects', and the fairly small number of 'replace's'

http://www.vtx1300tips.com/vtx_1300_...e_schedule.htm
Note, however, that the brake fluid calls for replacement every 12,000 miles. If you ride even 6 K a year, that is every other year which is what BMW calls for for some of the brake circiuts (the control circuits as I recall).

This appears to be a "home made" schedule and not an official Honda publication so I am wondering if Honda really does call for maintenance only by mileage and not by date also. If they do, they are in a huge minority as virtually every maintenance schedule I have ever seen for either cars or bikes has time limits as well as mileage limits.

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post #33 of 34 Old Nov 20th, 2011, 4:08 pm
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Re: Changes over production

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled
Before they ate it, the Forum Hamsters managed to email me...you said:
Great.. I could edit it but not see it... Software.. I guess...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketsled
only response to that is: If these things REALLY required that much effort, they'd be british, with Lucas electrics. Right? Because that sounds like AMF Harley levels of reliability.
Well, I owned one of those and I loved it so it probably explains why I like the LT...

The advantage you have buying a almost new 2000 in 2011 is that we know where all the problems were now. You can take advantage of that or not, your dime. Can't say you didn't get the information you asked for. Hope it helped. They are plenty of great bikes out there for sale and if the maintenance was done timely on a LT mileage is not or should not be a concern. There have been members here who have put on more than 300K on a single bike. Did they have problems..? Yes but they did the maintenance and their hardware cost per mile was quite good.

I have never owned a Harley, my back can't take the riding position, but AMF vintage HDs had real quality issues. BMW bikes don't come close to those levels even in the models that have some problems. I have never seen a group of BMW riders have someone follow with a trailer to claim the failed machines on the sunday ride. As far I know they is no bike that is bulletproof. It's all about the feeling in the twisties. Maintenance is for off season.

Have you spent any time on an LT?

Jack D. (Southern Connecticut)
2001 Black LTC
2015 Blue R1200GSA
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post #34 of 34 Old Nov 20th, 2011, 4:45 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Changes over production

It's been an interesting conversation, and one I'll take to heart. Unfortunately, other external influences have made it unwise to purchase another bike at this time.

I'll most likely pick up the hunt again in the spring.
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