Wanna see the guts of your starter relay? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2011, 6:24 pm Thread Starter
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Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

I work in the industrial electronics field so I took my failed starter relay in to work to test it. Strangely enough it tested as OPEN instead of closed. I have another one coming from MAX BMW so I thought I would tear it open and take a look inside. EEEEKS! This is like no relay I have ever seen! Look at the pics!




Talk about over-engineered! My boss tripped out on this thing then, showing his smarts, he GUESSED why it was designed this way. Anyway, this relay was failed due to, essentially, an overworked contactor. Very black and worn. Anyway, thought you all might be interested why these things are so expensive.


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post #2 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2011, 7:14 pm
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

Thanks for the pictures.

I had the starter relay out of a '86 K100 & was able to file the points on it & put it back in. I put a Ford car starter relay in & had he BMW starter relay trigger the Ford relay. On the older style relay, if you had a low battery. You could have the points stick in the relay. Then the bike keeps on cranking, even if you take the key out. On the relay you have it will not let that happen. It has a look see the the available voltage, if it no likey...it will not engage.

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post #3 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2011, 7:16 pm
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

I'm going to assume that's all the protection circuitry involved in keeping the relay from energizing when the voltage is low....

What a mess...

John

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post #4 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2011, 9:31 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
I'm going to assume that's all the protection circuitry involved in keeping the relay from energizing when the voltage is low....

What a mess...

John
Exactly right/ It looks for what it needs to see or no activation of the relay. Nice but way over engineered like many BMW (German) products.


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post #5 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2011, 10:27 pm
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

Is this the same starter relay that operates the starter motor to engage the reverse function? If so, I can imagine it could take quite a beating.
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post #6 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2011, 8:24 am
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmclay
Exactly right/ It looks for what it needs to see or no activation of the relay. Nice but way over engineered like many BMW (German) products.
You are confusing over featured with "over engineered." A device with more features than it needs is "under engineered." The essence of engineering is having just what is needed and nothing more. It takes MORE engineering to refine something to its essence. If a device has more stuff than it needs, then it needs MORE engineering, not less. :-)

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post #7 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2011, 1:30 pm
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

Enineering evaluation:

The glass is not "half full"
The glass is not "half empty"

The glass is the wrong size!
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post #8 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2011, 1:56 pm
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachZTT
Enineering evaluation:

The glass is not "half full"
The glass is not "half empty"

The glass is the wrong size!
Bingo!

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post #9 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2011, 3:40 pm
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

I'm pretty sure this is an interesting take on the observational aspect of research. Specifically the Schrodinger's Cat question and the glass half something conclusion. In actuality there is a point, observable or not, where it is one and not the other. The relay seeks to quantify a state of being and predicate an action based on that state. The fact that it does so effectively and consistently to avoid problems without prior knowledge of quantum mechanics should be celebrated; I know I do.
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post #10 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2011, 6:31 pm
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachZTT
Is this the same starter relay that operates the starter motor to engage the reverse function? If so, I can imagine it could take quite a beating.
No all control of the starter is from the reverser controller during the reverse operation. It is also at a reduced voltage or you would go back wards quite fast if the starter operated at full voltage in reverse.

Those two little pesky switches behind the reverser knob are what transfers control (the signal from the starter button) from the starter relay to the reverser controller.

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post #11 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2011, 7:58 pm
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

Ahh, John, this (possibly) answers a previous question I asked on the forum as to why my '05 will not drive up over a small (2" high) kurb in reverse. Even with the huge gearing reduction, if the starter operates at reduced voltage then I guess the result is reduced torque, which would explain it. No one alluded to the reduced voltage fact at the time. I couldn't tell weather the motor stalled out or something was slipping, but I've since seen in exloded views that there appears to be no safety clutch in the reverse drive system so I guess the motor was stalled, not good.

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post #12 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2011, 9:12 pm
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

Thanks John. That makes much more sense. I am still a noob.
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post #13 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2011, 9:25 pm
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?



Sorry to hear about Schroeder's cat!

Loren

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winky
I'm pretty sure this is an interesting take on the observational aspect of research. Specifically the Schrodinger's Cat question and the glass half something conclusion. In actuality there is a point, observable or not, where it is one and not the other. The relay seeks to quantify a state of being and predicate an action based on that state. The fact that it does so effectively and consistently to avoid problems without prior knowledge of quantum mechanics should be celebrated; I know I do.

WAK1200LT
Loren

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post #14 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 6:34 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
You are confusing over featured with "over engineered." A device with more features than it needs is "under engineered." The essence of engineering is having just what is needed and nothing more. It takes MORE engineering to refine something to its essence. If a device has more stuff than it needs, then it needs MORE engineering, not less. :-)
Point well-made, Voyager!


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post #15 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2011, 11:26 pm
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Re: Wanna see the guts of your starter relay?

Looks like a govern-mental justification schematic... Probably created several jobs..

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